OT another school shooting

[Huskerfan2112]

Each time this happens is the same tired BS.

People on both sides copy and paste the same arguments from last time.

To what end? You wont change anyones mind. My wife HATES guns. Im a responsible gun owner. Neither of us will change the others mind yet we live harmoniously while agreeing to disagree.

So how about instead of the same bullshit arguments, pause for a moment and say a prayer to whatever higher power you believe in. Kids are dead. Families are suffering. Lets think about rather that than “ I’m right and you are wrong and here is why”

Guns arent going away anymore than booze or drugs or anything else you like or dont like.

 

[TheBeav815]

I must have missed where I had to have an original birth certificate, go through a federal background check, and get fingerprinted to carry around my drivers license.
But by all means, let's go the hysterical route.

You don't have to have a birth certificate to get a state-issued ID? Most states you have to have two forms of approved ID if you're not already in the system. It's a nightmare if you get your wallet stolen and it has your Soc. card in it because that's one of the accepted forms.

Easy enough to get around the background checks. You just buy direct from somebody.

Think about it, the car you have to pass written exam, driving exam, tax and renewal on a regular basis, you have to register it and keep it plated, you have to carry liability insurance. Maybe somebody has a CDL and can elaborate on the requirements for that.

 

[anon_umk0ifu6vj6zi]

You don't have to have a birth certificate to get a state-issued ID? Most states you have to have two forms of approved ID if you're not already in the system. It's a nightmare if you get your wallet stolen and it has your Soc. card in it because that's one of the accepted forms.

Easy enough to get around the background checks. You just buy direct from somebody.

Think about it, the car you have to pass written exam, driving exam, tax and renewal on a regular basis, you have to register it and keep it plated, you have to carry liability insurance. Maybe somebody has a CDL and can elaborate on the requirements for that.

Do you have to go through a background check and get printed to carry that license? Think about it, right?

 

[ZaneHickey]

Good idea ignore the mental disorders we have in this country and just take away one of the tools for these people to do these acts of terror. Lets punish everyone else that legally owns weapons all because people refuse to teach their children right from wrong at a young age. This isn't a gun control problem its a mentally weak countries problem. I am not against better gun control than we have now but you are far out in left field.

Breakdown of the family is literally killing us. Look to Maslow's Hierarchy. Our culture promotes a template of raising children that does not coincide, at all, with optimal child development and formation. Long on social media connections and short on bonding/belonging and true identity. The results have been in for awhile, I'm afraid.

 

[CC_Lemming]

Perhaps they should pass legislation to make it illegal to commit murder in schools.

Go Blue!

Another red herring.

 

[chicolby]

Ever since Columbine these little assholes know that they'll go out famous if they take their problems out on 20 or so schoolmates instead of just jumping off a chair in their own damn room. Little shit will have his name all over every TV channel within hours.

And there are five more of them planning the next ones right now knowing they'll get their 15 minutes of fame.

So you think media coverage is the blame?

 

[chicolby]

Perhaps they should pass legislation to make it illegal to commit murder in schools.

Go Blue!

And while we're at it, get rid of speeding laws, and drug laws. And immigration laws. This argument of "laws don't stop murder, so don't even attempt gun control laws" is tired and inaccurate.

 

[anon_umk0ifu6vj6zi]

Breakdown of the family is literally killing us. Look to Maslow's Hierarchy. Our culture promotes a template of raising children that does not coincide, at all, with optimal child development and formation. Long on social media connections and short on bonding/belonging and true identity. The results have been in for awhile, I'm afraid.

Don't go there with some of these guys.

 

[anon_umk0ifu6vj6zi]

So you think media coverage is the blame?

No, it's guns

 

[chicolby]

Each time this happens is the same tired BS.

People on both sides copy and paste the same arguments from last time.

To what end? You wont change anyones mind. My wife HATES guns. Im a responsible gun owner. Neither of us will change the others mind yet we live harmoniously while agreeing to disagree.

So how about instead of the same bullshit arguments, pause for a moment and say a prayer to whatever higher power you believe in. Kids are dead. Families are suffering. Lets think about rather that than “ I’m right and you are wrong and here is why”

Guns arent going away anymore than booze or drugs or anything else you like or dont like.

You're grouping "guns" with mass killing weapons. I've asked several times for a logical explanation of why regular citizens should own the types of weapons that can shoot massive rounds in short succession, and no one has given me a logical answer.

You're right. Guns aren't going away, and a majority of Americans don't want them to go away. But a majority of Americans do want tighter restrictions, background checks and the removal of high capacity weapons.

 

[Lincoln100]

Hey look! It’s another everybody hates everybody thread!

 

[chicolby]

Breakdown of the family is literally killing us. Look to Maslow's Hierarchy. Our culture promotes a template of raising children that does not coincide, at all, with optimal child development and formation. Long on social media connections and short on bonding/belonging and true identity. The results have been in for awhile, I'm afraid.

I think this sounds like a reasonable connection. Culture issues, a breakdown of the family, etc.... but where things go sideways is when you look at other countries that have the same breakdown of the family and other influences like social media, etc., but their murder rate and mass killing rates come nowhere close to the levels in the US. So is the US unique in its breakdown of the family?

 

[scarletred]

Say he is a former student.

 

[anon_umk0ifu6vj6zi]

Hey look! It’s another everybody hates everybody thread!

Coming from the guy pissed off that college athletes were having fun. This is rich.

 

[anon_umk0ifu6vj6zi]

You're grouping "guns" with mass killing weapons. I've asked several times for a logical explanation of why regular citizens should own the types of weapons that can shoot massive rounds in short succession, and no one has given me a logical answer.

You're right. Guns aren't going away, and a majority of Americans don't want them to go away. But a majority of Americans do want tighter restrictions, background checks and the removal of high capacity weapons.

Why? You are not gonna like it, but if the government has them, as should I (if I chose to).

 

[chicolby]

Why? You are not gonna like it, but if the government has them, as should I (if I chose to).

A majority of citizens in your country don't want you to have the types of weapons that can create mass murder, that's why. Really, think about that argument for a moment. The government has nuclear weapons. Should you? Come on.

 

[ThrowBones92]

If I got to design the legislation, I'd make it hard as hell to prove you're qualified to own a firearm and there would be limits on the type and number you could own. Long guns only. If you can't hunt what you're hunting or stop a break in with a shotgun or a bolt-action, I guess it just wasn't meant to be. That's the short version. You'd need to demonstrate a lot of aptitude and respect for your weapon to be licensed to own it.

It's such a lax culture that acts like guns are a crucial way of life and yet shows them no fundamental respect by treating them like toys and leaving them lying around in cars, night stands, etc. Then people act surprised when some kid gets his dad or uncle's guns and shoots up a school.

Along with that would have to be aggressive buybacks and sweeps to remove illegal arms from circulation. The reason none of the laws currently in place accomplish anything is because you're never more than a few hours' drive from totally circumventing those laws.

I used to shoot when I lived in NE, it's fun. I would probably own and maybe even hunt if I lived out in the country. But this business of having it be harder by far to get a driver's license than it is to buy something made for the purpose of killing living things...are we serious with all that? Why does anyone who calls himself a "responsible gun owner" stand up for the notion that any idiot should be able to walk into a shop and buy five of whatever puts a grin on his face?

The last part of this baffles me as well. I have proposed ideas to some people who are huge pro-gun rights folks, and they love to attack my proposals and poke holes in them. But they largely have no thoughts on how to make the country safer. They just want me to keep my hands off their guns. I get it, but if they don't like what I suggest, as a responsible, pro-gun rights individual, shouldn't they be taking some responsibility to help figure this mess out? Because every time someone wants to try to make things safer, these same people act like we are setting up our country to let tyranny reign...as if their handgun is going to protect them from a tyrannical government.

I'm a hunter, I own shotguns and rifles, and I am 100% okay with ramping up regulations on my gun ownership if it makes our country, our kids, our communities a safer place. In fact, I 100% support it.

 

[chicolby]

The last part of this baffles me as well. I have proposed ideas to some people who are huge pro-gun rights folks, and they love to attack my proposals and poke holes in them. But they largely have no thoughts on how to make the country safer. They just want me to keep my hands off their guns. I get it, but if they don't like what I suggest, as a responsible, pro-gun rights individual, shouldn't they be taking some responsibility to help figure this mess out? Because every time someone wants to try to make things safer, these same people act like we are setting up our country to let tyranny reign...as if their handgun is going to protect them from a tyrannical government.

I'm a hunter, I own shotguns and rifles, and I am 100% okay with ramping up regulations on my gun ownership if it makes our country, our kids, our communities a safer place. In fact, I 100% support it.

Thank you for these words. I think so many gun owners think gun regulations somehow suggest that they personally are not responsible owners. They think they are being questioned, so they dig in their heels to say "hey, I'm a reasonable and responsible gun owner, don't take away my rights." - which is understandable. But kids and deranged people aren't responsible. And these people can get a hold of these types of weapons with ease. Let's make it just a little harder for them to create the type of mass murder. The responsible people can make that one sacrifice for the sake of hundreds and thousands of people and children killed in these situations, can't they?

 

[TheBeav815]

Good idea ignore the mental disorders we have in this country and just take away one of the tools for these people to do these acts of terror. Lets punish everyone else that legally owns weapons all because people refuse to teach their children right from wrong at a young age. This isn't a gun control problem its a mentally weak countries problem. I am not against better gun control than we have now but you are far out in left field.

I'm all for mental healthcare. As somebody with a psychology degree who is well familiar with how difficult it is to diagnose people in the first place, let alone then get them into treatment and then have them stick with that treatment, that's not a solution to anything. It's a talking point cleverly crafted by people who want to sell you more guns. What are you gonna do, mandate that every US citizen has to go get a full psych eval. as though there are doctors enough for that and then somehow tie that to a national registry on whether they're allowed to own? Which disorders would make it illegal to own a gun?

Narrowing down the classes of firearms that are legal to own can be done. Buybacks and sweeps can be done. Several other countries have successfully done so, notably the UK and Australia. You can't mandate health care, people have to choose to show up to the doctor, then go to the pharmacy and fill their prescription, then take their prescription. That's to try to manage something they already have.

As opposed to putting hurdles in place to prove they are qualified to acquire something they don't already have. If you are, in fact, a responsible gun owner then what's wrong with that?

 

[TheBeav815]

Thank you for these words. I think so many gun owners think gun regulations somehow suggest that they personally are not responsible owners. They think they are being questioned, so they dig in their heels to say "hey, I'm a reasonable and responsible gun owner, don't take away my rights." - which is understandable. But kids and deranged people aren't responsible. And these people can get a hold of these types of weapons with ease. Let's make it just a little harder for them to create the type of mass murder. The responsible people can make that one sacrifice for the sake of hundreds and thousands of people and children killed in these situations, can't they?

I don't understand why they're not the first in line for laws like these. The more nutbags you allow to off people, the more jeopardized your rights become. They're out there flaunting the problem in front of everyone.

Weirdly, those same people are usually very pro-military and pro-police. The military and police have strict weapons protocols. Weirder still, those same people will often go on to hint at something that suggests them fighting in some civil war against a "tyrannical government." Meaning they would be killing military and police personnel. That one always makes me scratch my head.

 

[ThrowBones92]

Each time this happens is the same tired BS.

People on both sides copy and paste the same arguments from last time.

To what end? You wont change anyones mind. My wife HATES guns. Im a responsible gun owner. Neither of us will change the others mind yet we live harmoniously while agreeing to disagree.

So how about instead of the same bullshit arguments, pause for a moment and say a prayer to whatever higher power you believe in. Kids are dead. Families are suffering. Lets think about rather that than “ I’m right and you are wrong and here is why”

Guns arent going away anymore than booze or drugs or anything else you like or dont like.

I think the thing that most people misunderstand about prayer is that while God may respond to our prayers that prompt his action, prayer is also a means by which God changes our own hearts, but that requires our submission. As much as people think the only use for prayer is to submit something to God's "suggestion box", many don't understand that an important part of prayer is submission to God's character and will, and being open to him changing our hearts. I'm not saying God is pro-gun rights or pro-gun control, but too many are praying for God to do something about this and not enough are praying for God to change their hearts and priorities.

 

[TheNewNU]

Limit high capacity and rapid fire semi-auto weapons. The weapons industry would need to fundamentally change, their approach to marketing nearly every type of firearm imaginable to the general public would need to end. The marketing of firearms was very different when I was a kid. In general, socially alienated people didn’t have access to weapons of war.

I hate to break it to you but guns are not going anywhere. The 2nd amendment gives individuals the right to keep and bear arms, this was further established in the landmark DC vs Heller case. Furthermore the governments ability to control magazine sizes and semi autos (which is basically every type of gun a civilian would have except a pump action shotgun and a revolver) is a pipe dream with 3D printing growing at the rate it is. If you don't believe me Vice made a great piece about 5 years agon on Cody R Wilson who is a pioneer in the 3D printed gun movement.

 

[TheBeav815]

Do you have to go through a background check and get printed to carry that license? Think about it, right?

Your fingerprint is more precious than your photograph that goes on the front of your license along with your height, weight, and hair and eye color?

 

[GammaxuvirHusker]

Another red herring.

To put it simply, you cannot legislate the evil out of people's hearts. If someone wants to kill, they will find a way.

 

[ThrowBones92]

I don't understand why they're not the first in line for laws like these. The more nutbags you allow to off people, the more jeopardized your rights become. They're out there flaunting the problem in front of everyone.

Weirdly, those same people are usually very pro-military and pro-police. The military and police have strict weapons protocols. Weirder still, those same people will often go on to hint at something that suggests them fighting in some civil war against a "tyrannical government." Meaning they would be killing military and police personnel. That one always makes me scratch my head.

I swear you must have been a fly on the wall in the conversation I had with a couple of friends:
1) Unwilling to understand that by taking responbility to help control this problem, they are acting in their long-term self-interest with respect to gun ownership
2) They are extremely pro-military, and the husband is a veteran
3) The wife actually suggested to me that the need for her to carry her handgun was to prevent "tyranny by our government"

 

[CC_Lemming]

To put it simply, you cannot legislate the evil out of people's hearts. If someone wants to kill, they will find a way.

So why have laws at all if there are evil people who will violate them?

 

[kerpal_68]

I'm all for mental healthcare. As somebody with a psychology degree who is well familiar with how difficult it is to diagnose people in the first place, let alone then get them into treatment and then have them stick with that treatment, that's not a solution to anything. It's a talking point cleverly crafted by people who want to sell you more guns. What are you gonna do, mandate that every US citizen has to go get a full psych eval. as though there are doctors enough for that and then somehow tie that to a national registry on whether they're allowed to own? Which disorders would make it illegal to own a gun?

Narrowing down the classes of firearms that are legal to own can be done. Buybacks and sweeps can be done. Several other countries have successfully done so, notably the UK and Australia. You can't mandate health care, people have to choose to show up to the doctor, then go to the pharmacy and fill their prescription, then take their prescription. That's to try to manage something they already have.

As opposed to putting hurdles in place to prove they are qualified to acquire something they don't already have. If you are, in fact, a responsible gun owner then what's wrong with that?

So lets talk about what happens in your fantasy world where we ban all guns. We still didn't fix the mental state of these people, they still were not raised with respect for other human beings, and they weren't taught right from wrong. Once were in your fantasy what is stopping this kid from gathering a few ingredients and googling how to make an explosive or grabbing a butcher knife from his mothers knife drawer and stabbing every person he comes across in these classrooms? I'm guessing you will come up with something else to regulate.

 

[Lincoln100]

Coming from the guy pissed off that college athletes were having fun. This is rich.

That’s me, I’m “pissed” at college athletes. Your embellishment isn’t unusual and it sure does fit right in, so keep it up! You aren’t part of the problem at all! Thanks for stopping by

 

[TheBeav815]

I hate to break it to you but guns are not going anywhere. The 2nd amendment gives individuals the right to keep and bear arms, this was further established in the landmark DC vs Heller case. Furthermore the governments ability to control magazine sizes and semi autos (which is basically every type of gun a civilian would have except a pump action shotgun and a revolver) is a pipe dream with 3D printing growing at the rate it is. If you don't believe me Vice made a great piece about 5 years agon on Cody R Wilson who is a pioneer in the 3D printed gun movement.

View embedded media

The average person cannot access a printer of a quality to 3D print any kind of decent gun. Theoretically you can 3D print all sorts of things, yet who does any of us know who actually prints anything more significant than little novelties?

I don't put much stock in trying to fuss over mag size, grips, stocks, etc. If you can't get one gun with 30 rounds it's not much harder to get two guns with 15 rounds.

 

[anon_umk0ifu6vj6zi]

Your fingerprint is more precious than your photograph that goes on the front of your license along with your height, weight, and hair and eye color?

It is an example of exactly what you bring up, more restrictions. Voting is a basic right, and not even IDs are required. I don't care if I had to go through hoops to pacify others to purchase guns. I just find it mildly entertaining you make the claim it's harder to get a drivers license. It's laughably false, and a programmed talking point the easily controlled buy into.

 

[TheBeav815]

So lets talk about what happens in your fantasy world where we ban all guns. We still didn't fix the mental state of these people, they still were not raised with respect for other human beings, and they weren't taught right from wrong. Once were in your fantasy what is stopping this kid from gathering a few ingredients and googling how to make an explosive or grabbing a butcher knife from his mothers knife drawer and stabbing every person he comes across in these classrooms? I'm guessing you will come up with something else to regulate.

Where did anyone say they were going to end all murders? I mean by your logic let's just pull the sealtbelts and airbags out of cars. You'll never end bad drivers, right?

 

[anon_umk0ifu6vj6zi]

The last part of this baffles me as well. I have proposed ideas to some people who are huge pro-gun rights folks, and they love to attack my proposals and poke holes in them. But they largely have no thoughts on how to make the country safer. They just want me to keep my hands off their guns. I get it, but if they don't like what I suggest, as a responsible, pro-gun rights individual, shouldn't they be taking some responsibility to help figure this mess out? Because every time someone wants to try to make things safer, these same people act like we are setting up our country to let tyranny reign...as if their handgun is going to protect them from a tyrannical government.

I'm a hunter, I own shotguns and rifles, and I am 100% okay with ramping up regulations on my gun ownership if it makes our country, our kids, our communities a safer place. In fact, I 100% support it.

I actually agree, but if they cannot enforce simple laws on the books now, do you really think they can enforce others? Pipe dream.

 

[chicolby]

To put it simply, you cannot legislate the evil out of people's hearts. If someone wants to kill, they will find a way.

Just as people who want to speed will speed. And people who want to deal drugs will deal drugs. But we still have laws against these things because they are considered detrimental to the health of other law-abiding citizens.

 

[anon_umk0ifu6vj6zi]

A majority of citizens in your country don't want you to have the types of weapons that can create mass murder, that's why. Really, think about that argument for a moment. The government has nuclear weapons. Should you? Come on.

Why not, it's my right. Just like voting. Should we keep letting people vote if they can't pass a background check?

 

[mwulf]

So lets talk about what happens in your fantasy world where we ban all guns. We still didn't fix the mental state of these people, they still were not raised with respect for other human beings, and they weren't taught right from wrong. Once were in your fantasy what is stopping this kid from gathering a few ingredients and googling how to make an explosive or grabbing a butcher knife from his mothers knife drawer and stabbing every person he comes across in these classrooms? I'm guessing you will come up with something else to regulate.

Australia has had success after they banned guns but on an island its easier to do...you are never going to stop someone from killing someone but you can probably limit the mass murder aspect by quite a bit...not sure where I saw this quote but it was basically that the USA has a mental health problem disguised as a gun problem.

 

[anon_umk0ifu6vj6zi]

That’s me, I’m “pissed” at college athletes. Your embellishment isn’t unusual and it sure does fit right in, so keep it up! You aren’t part of the problem at all! Thanks for stopping by

Dynamite drop in, as usual

 

[anon_umk0ifu6vj6zi]

So lets talk about what happens in your fantasy world where we ban all guns. We still didn't fix the mental state of these people, they still were not raised with respect for other human beings, and they weren't taught right from wrong. Once were in your fantasy what is stopping this kid from gathering a few ingredients and googling how to make an explosive or grabbing a butcher knife from his mothers knife drawer and stabbing every person he comes across in these classrooms? I'm guessing you will come up with something else to regulate.

Or just waiting till after school and easily mowing down all of them in a truck? That's the new playbook.

 

[ThrowBones92]

I actually agree, but if they cannot enforce simple laws on the books now, do you really think they can enforce others? Pipe dream.

Given what's at stake, I think we've got to try. But it's going to take leadership from both sides to agree that "something" is better than "nothing". We may not agree on what that "something" is, but we've got to find common ground. Otherwise, send keep those Ts and Ps ready. Because its going to be "rinse and repeat".

 

[TheBeav815]

Or just waiting till after school and easily mowing down all of them in a truck? That's the new playbook.

You've convinced me. I say we sent the Marines in with U-Hauls for their next tour in Afghanistan.

 

[TheBeav815]

Or just waiting till after school and easily mowing down all of them in a truck? That's the new playbook.

If this is so true, how come you guys need guns at all? You'll still have trucks and hammers and knives, so why do you need a gun for "home defense?" Why the insistence on protecting firearms, are they by any chance a much more efficient tool for killing a person than just about anything else you can buy?