OL Recruiting

[HuskerO]

Yes, it is humorous. The Smiling Mike apologists are now demanding instant success......lol.....par for the course.

Wrong. What we're "demanding" is less hypocrisy from posters like you.

You: Riley needs to win NOW!
Also you: Frost needs time!

You: Riley had a terrible season he needs to be canned now!
Also you: If Frost were to have a bad season he needs to be given more time.

You: Riley is a terrible coach. No one's fault but his own.
Also you: Frost is super coach, but if he has a bad season it's Riley's fault.

You: Riley missed on a recruit. What is Riley doing? Riley is terrible.
Also you: Frost misses on a recruit. This is fine!

Get it?

 

[Tuco Salamanca]

Yeah, this staff is going to miss too. They are not gods, nor do they walk on water. At least not yet, even though some fans already treat them as such. I think it's good to have a healthy dose of objectivity, but a lot of guys are going to fight you on it.

I enjoy a good fight.

 

[PeliniTheCrutch]

Wrong. What we're "demanding" is less hypocrisy from posters like you.

You: Riley needs to win NOW!
Also you: Frost needs time!

You: Riley had a terrible season he needs to be canned now!
Also you: If Frost were to have a bad season he needs to be given more time.

You: Riley is a terrible coach. No one's fault but his own.
Also you: Frost is super coach, but if he has a bad season it's Riley's fault.

You: Riley missed on a recruit. What is Riley doing? Riley is terrible.
Also you: Frost misses on a recruit. This is fine!

Get it?

So what do you think are reasonable expectations after a 4 win season?

 

[Tuco Salamanca]

So what do you think are reasonable expectations after a 4 win season?

What were reasonable expectations after a zero win season, that followed a 9 win season?

As I said last year, UCF didn't have zero win talent on their team in 2016. Just like Nebraska didn't have 4 win talent on their 2017 team.

 

[jeans15]

Good God can we please stop comparing today's football to 1970's and 80's football. It isn't even close to the same game. Recruiting has changed, kids have changed, very little is even similar.

I recently watched the 1991 Nebraska- Oklahoma game. I think there were about 25 passes thrown in the game, combined. Yes the weather was awful, yes the teams were known to have running attacks, but Holy Crap the QB play was horrendous, Keithen McCant was like 9-12 and every throw was behind the receiver and would have been picked off in today's game. The linebackers were 250 pounds and slow. The safeties were slow and white. ha ha ha.

Just stop with it all....please.

How do you know they were slow. How do you know teams would be able to stop their running games if you never practice against that type of running game.

 

[oldjar07]

Nope. Just more fake news. I have repeatedly said I EXPECT this team to win 8 regular season games. That means looking at the schedule and predicting wins and losses based on matchups. I have also said that the minimum expectations for Nebraska football should be playing for the conference titles in most years. That doesn’t mean it has to happen in year one.

What you don’t seem to be able to do is understand the difference between expectations and “demands”.

Now I have called people out, maybe you, I don’t remember, for setting lower expectations based on the talent level. Going into 2017 very few expected to lose to Northern Illinois and finish with 4 wins. The expectations were to at least match the previous year’s win total.

I have also pointed out hypocrisy in people saying Frost should get time to bring in players to fit his system, when we expected Riley to adjust his scheme to fit the talent on the team. Or when people would say there were “toxins” left over from Pelini and that would be poo poo’d as excuses but for Frost the soft team he inherited is a valid excuse and takes time to fix.

As far as Riley goes, I had the same expectations for him. Most all of my defending of the previous staff was based on philosophy. I believe you can win at Nebraska with a WCO or the offense Riley and Langsdorf ran. The offense failed because of how the team was coached, not what offense philosophy they ran. Riley failed because of how he and Devaney managed the football operation at Nebraska not because of the offensive philosophy.

So sir, it is not just me with the supposed double standards.

Frost's system has been proven to work and consistently be among the top offenses in the nation. That's why people don't want Frost to change his system. Riley never had near this level of success so people wanted him to fit his system to the players. It's not hypocrisy when people want different things for completely different situations.

Riley inherited a 9 win team, Frost a 4 win team. That's a huge difference and many people's expectations are going to be different. I'm not saying I agree with that. I agree with you the expectations should be to win at least 9 or 10 games each year and play for conference titles. I think we have the talent to do it this year, but the culture is not fully instilled yet along with the schedule and many people think we'll fall short of that expectation.

 

[Tuco Salamanca]

Frost's system has been proven to work and consistently be among the top offenses in the nation. That's why people don't want Frost to change his system. Riley never had near this level of success so people wanted him to fit his system to the players. It's not hypocrisy when people want different things for completely different situations.

Riley inherited a 9 win team, Frost a 4 win team. That's a huge difference and many people's expectations are going to be different. I'm not saying I agree with that. I agree with you the expectations should be to win at least 9 or 10 games each year and play for conference titles. I think we have the talent to do it this year, but the culture is not fully instilled yet along with the schedule and many people think we'll fall short of that expectation.

Whatever, you can justify the hypocrisy all you want it is still hypocrisy, it is the same thing and same situation. A coach who runs a different system was hired, on one hand you are willing to give extra time and on the other you weren't. Again, nothing wrong with it, just freaking own it.


A coach is hired because of what he does schematically or organizationally or whatever. So because you didn't like the hire, didn't like his system and because he inherited a 9 win team, you thought he should adjust his system. The fact is he was handcuffed because of that 9 win season. Knowing the fan base, he couldn't have brought in a true Freshman QB, sat Armstrong and started a true freshman and said there's going to be some growing pains. No way No how. Frost has the luxury for lack of a better term, of inheriting a team that underachieved and only won 4 games.

 

[PeliniTheCrutch]

What were reasonable expectations after a zero win season, that followed a 9 win season?

As I said last year, UCF didn't have zero win talent on their team in 2016. Just like Nebraska didn't have 4 win talent on their 2017 team.

That is a question, not an answer.

 

[bshirt73]

The double standards have more to do with the popularity of the hire than schedule or any other factors. I think @jflores used Dino Babers as an example previously so let’s use him again. If Moos had hired Babers, I don’t believe as many people would be making excuses for soft team and lack of talent. Nor would they be giving him the slack to bring in his own players. Don’t get me wrong, I get it, we always give our own the benefit of the doubt and a extra leeway. We just need to own it and say that is why we have the double standard.

I understand what Frost says about the run game. I think he chooses his words carefully because Nebraska fan likes to hear that. But we’ve had this discussion before and I have provided you statistical evidence that shows Frost’s offense is dependent on the passing game to make the run game successful. As the numbers show, he is about 52/48 run/pass and runs about 15% more plays when his team is <14 points ahead or behind. Then with a >15 point lead, he takes the air out, runs the ball and runs fewer plays.

Running the ball is important but that doesn’t mean we will be a heavy run team.

As far as a passing offense goes, Leach has shown you can run a pass first offense in Texas or far Eastern Washington State. Joe Tiller ran a pass first offense at Purdue. Michigan and Michigan St both run a form of WCO.

Again many factors led to Riley’s lack of success at Nebraska it wasn’t simply his offensive philosophy.

Good chat. GBR

There's a huge, HUGE difference regarding offensive philosophy that will work in the AAC but quite possibly not in the Big10. A truly monster sized difference. Maybe for one game.....but for a whole season I don't think so.

But sure, MR was "at best" a marginal HC. You're surely correct.

So we'll see.....when we play Michigan, Wisconsin, Ohio State, Iowa, Michigan St, etc.....we better be able to run the ball. If I'm wrong I'll send you a 12 pack of Becks dark.

Btw, just for you partner.....

""Our offense is going to be committed to the run first," head coach Scott Frost said. "To varying degrees, we've thrown it and run it, but we can't go as an offense, and no one can go as an offense, without establishing the run."

 

[bshirt73]

Wrong. What we're "demanding" is less hypocrisy from posters like you.

You: Riley needs to win NOW!
Also you: Frost needs time!

You: Riley had a terrible season he needs to be canned now!
Also you: If Frost were to have a bad season he needs to be given more time.

You: Riley is a terrible coach. No one's fault but his own.
Also you: Frost is super coach, but if he has a bad season it's Riley's fault.

You: Riley missed on a recruit. What is Riley doing? Riley is terrible.
Also you: Frost misses on a recruit. This is fine!

Get it?

 

[PeliniTheCrutch]

Riley had a terrible season.

Riley is a terrible coach. No one's fault but his own.

What is Riley doing? Riley is terrible.

Man, it’s like we are sharing the same brain!

 

[Tuco Salamanca]

There's a huge, HUGE difference regarding offensive philosophy that will work in the AAC but quite possibly not in the Big10. A truly monster sized difference. Maybe for one game.....but for a whole season I don't think so.

But sure, MR was "at best" a marginal HC. You're surely correct.

So we'll see.....when we play Michigan, Wisconsin, Ohio State, Iowa, Michigan St, etc.....we better be able to run the ball. If I'm wrong I'll send you a 12 pack of Becks dark.

Btw, just for you partner.....

""Our offense is going to be committed to the run first," head coach Scott Frost said. "To varying degrees, we've thrown it and run it, but we can't go as an offense, and no one can go as an offense, without establishing the run."

And if we have a Run/pass ratio greater than 55/45 I will send you a 12 pack of a Texas IPA as well.

 

[Pennsyhusker]

Unless you have several receivers that can stretch the field and have great route running skills, a pro style offense like Riley's breaks down against the fast and athletic cornerbacks that the best teams have. You might get guys open now and then, but not with consistency. So even a pro style offense had better be able to run the ball effectively so you can give your receivers a jump when you run play action. And if you have zero running game, as Riley's teams had, you add in the double whammy of getting your QB killed on passing plays, play action or not, since the defensive line can just pin their ears back. See... the Tennessee game for a classic example.

All of this is obvious football 101 to everyone on here. So my broader point is that in my opinion one of the things Frost's offense is designed to do is to stretch a defense by getting very fast athletes in space against linebackers and safeties. In a lot of ways his short passing game is a kind of running game insofar as you are utilizing hybrid type players who can run like hell, but also have good hands.

This in turn will open up running lanes for the more traditional type running plays and the zone read. It really is an elaboration on Osborne's philosophy that you need to force all 11 defensive guys to play assignment football.

That is why I am hopeful we will see an improvement on offense this year even IF the offensive line is only marginally better.

 

[CheeseRunza]

Whatever, you can justify the hypocrisy all you want it is still hypocrisy, it is the same thing and same situation. A coach who runs a different system was hired, on one hand you are willing to give extra time and on the other you weren't. Again, nothing wrong with it, just freaking own it.


A coach is hired because of what he does schematically or organizationally or whatever. So because you didn't like the hire, didn't like his system and because he inherited a 9 win team, you thought he should adjust his system. The fact is he was handcuffed because of that 9 win season. Knowing the fan base, he couldn't have brought in a true Freshman QB, sat Armstrong and started a true freshman and said there's going to be some growing pains. No way No how. Frost has the luxury for lack of a better term, of inheriting a team that underachieved and only won 4 games.

I’m not following where both you and HuskerO are alleging hypocrisy based on the examples you both stated. If someone states that they aren’t willing to give a coach extra time because he runs a different system, and then his actions indicate that he holds true to that statement, how is that being hypocritical? If that same person then says that they are willing to give a different coach extra time because of the new system he runs, and again, his actions indicate that he holds true to his statement, it is still not hypocritical. Hypocritical would be someone publicly stating that they support a coach and his system and everyone should jump onboard, while his actions would indicate that he is actually rooting for the coach to fail so he can rub it in the face of that coach’s supporters; i.e. says one thing, but does another.

 

[oldjar07]

Whatever, you can justify the hypocrisy all you want it is still hypocrisy, it is the same thing and same situation. A coach who runs a different system was hired, on one hand you are willing to give extra time and on the other you weren't. Again, nothing wrong with it, just freaking own it.


A coach is hired because of what he does schematically or organizationally or whatever. So because you didn't like the hire, didn't like his system and because he inherited a 9 win team, you thought he should adjust his system. The fact is he was handcuffed because of that 9 win season. Knowing the fan base, he couldn't have brought in a true Freshman QB, sat Armstrong and started a true freshman and said there's going to be some growing pains. No way No how. Frost has the luxury for lack of a better term, of inheriting a team that underachieved and only won 4 games.

Who said I was willing to give extra time? Because I never said that. I expect at least 9 win seasons every year just like I do this year.

Riley's system never was that great. He never achieved more than above average results with it. Which is why it was such a confusing hire in the first place because he would have to change his system completely to achieve better results here. He could have started a freshman qb but maybe the qualities that led him to bend to fan pressure also were qualities that made him a bad football coach.

Frost's system on the other hand has been proven to work and produce top offenses year after year. No rational fan would want him to make major changes to his system when it's proven to work as well as it has.

 

[Skerz4Life50]

I’m not following where both you and HuskerO are alleging hypocrisy based on the examples you both stated. If someone states that they aren’t willing to give a coach extra time because he runs a different system, and then his actions indicate that he holds true to that statement, how is that being hypocritical? If that same person then says that they are willing to give a different coach extra time because of the new system he runs, and again, his actions indicate that he holds true to his statement, it is still not hypocritical. Hypocritical would be someone publicly stating that they support a coach and his system and everyone should jump onboard, while his actions would indicate that he is actually rooting for the coach to fail so he can rub it in the face of that coach’s supporters; i.e. says one thing, but does another.

Coach A inherits a team with various issues from the previous coach. He also has a new offensive scheme from the previous coach and a roster that doesn’t fit said offensive scheme. The fans say he should change his offensive scheme to fit the players he currently has and should be able to win now regardless of his players, the culture he inherited, and what his true offensive identity is.

Coach B inherits a team with various issues from the previous coach. He also has a new offensive scheme from the previous coach and a roster that doesn’t fit said offensive scheme. The fans say he should be given time to change the roster to fit his offensive identity and that wins at this stage aren’t as important as getting his players, culture, and offensive scheme installed.

How is that not hypocrisy? Two coaches of the same team with similar problems are being given different standards. I honestly am fine with giving Frost extra time, and I want nothing but for him and us to be successful. But don’t act like he isn’t being treated completely different than Riley because Riley was an outsider .500 coach and SF is ‘one of us’.

 

[CheeseRunza]

How is that not hypocrisy?

Definition of hypocrisy
plural hypocrisies
1 : a feigning to be what one is not or to believe what one does not : behavior that contradicts what one claims to believe or feel

• His hypocrisy was finally revealed with the publication of his private letters.

; especially : the false assumption of an appearance of virtue or religion

• our conventional morality often serves as a cover for hypocrisy and selfishness
• —Lucius Garvin

2 : an act or instance of hypocrisy

• a keen awareness of one's parents' hypocrisies

Hyprocrisy has nothing to do with standards or double standards. It is simply saying or stating belief in one thing and acting in another.

 

[Tuco Salamanca]

Definition of hypocrisy
plural hypocrisies
1 : a feigning to be what one is not or to believe what one does not : behavior that contradicts what one claims to believe or feel

• His hypocrisy was finally revealed with the publication of his private letters.

; especially : the false assumption of an appearance of virtue or religion

• our conventional morality often serves as a cover for hypocrisy and selfishness
• —Lucius Garvin

2 : an act or instance of hypocrisy

• a keen awareness of one's parents' hypocrisies

Hyprocrisy has nothing to do with standards or double standards. It is simply saying or stating belief in one thing and acting in another.

- Behavior that contradicts what one claims to believe or feel-

So as a Nebraska football fan I believe it is fine to give the football coach ample time to recruit and establish his culture. Then, in year one, I say coach needs to change his offense to fit the current roster.

So I don’t think it is ok to give a coach time to establish his culture and recruit to his system?? Or does it depend on who the coach is?

So in reality you are correct in that it is ALSO a double standard. But it fits the definition of hypocrisy as well.

 

[oldjar07]

Coach A inherits a team with various issues from the previous coach. He also has a new offensive scheme from the previous coach and a roster that doesn’t fit said offensive scheme. The fans say he should change his offensive scheme to fit the players he currently has and should be able to win now regardless of his players, the culture he inherited, and what his true offensive identity is.

Coach B inherits a team with various issues from the previous coach. He also has a new offensive scheme from the previous coach and a roster that doesn’t fit said offensive scheme. The fans say he should be given time to change the roster to fit his offensive identity and that wins at this stage aren’t as important as getting his players, culture, and offensive scheme installed.

How is that not hypocrisy? Two coaches of the same team with similar problems are being given different standards. I honestly am fine with giving Frost extra time, and I want nothing but for him and us to be successful. But don’t act like he isn’t being treated completely different than Riley because Riley was an outsider .500 coach and SF is ‘one of us’.

There's plenty of fans who wanted to give Riley time, even with a losing season his first year. If Frost has a losing season this year, I think most fans will be pretty disappointed and expect a much better season the next year. There really isn't much of a difference between the two.

 

[Tuco Salamanca]

There's plenty of fans who wanted to give Riley time, even with a losing season his first year. If Frost has a losing season this year, I think most fans will be pretty disappointed and expect a much better season the next year. There really isn't much of a difference between the two.

Do you read this forum? There are a bunch of posters that just hope we get to 6-6 so we get the extra bowl practices. When Riley went 5-7, there were people saying we shouldn’t go to the bowl because we didn’t deserve it. The difference is substantial.

 

[Mr.Scary13]

I still get a chuckle reading how many people on here think Riley did nothing but pass and Frost is a running mentality coach. I'm going to laugh my ass off when a bunch on here get a huge dose of what his offensive game is all about.

 

[Skerz4Life50]

There's plenty of fans who wanted to give Riley time, even with a losing season his first year. If Frost has a losing season this year, I think most fans will be pretty disappointed and expect a much better season the next year. There really isn't much of a difference between the two.

I agree for the most part, but there were also a vocal minority who were already raising hell after year 1 that Riley should be gone because Pelini was able to win 9 games why couldn’t he even though he had a different offense and inherited a toxic culture. In contrast, SF is inheriting a soft (but not toxic) culture and is changing identities. He is also coming in with lower expectations and a seemly very difficult schedule. The difference, though, is that you won’t hear from probabo anyone after the season about firing SF even if he has a bad year because, again, he is one of us and once we knew Riley would be fired, everyone was behind the hire.

One question I have is if for some horrible reason SF loses to Northern Illinois in 2019 (?), are we going to give up on the season and hope for both SF and Moos to be fired? The obvious answer is no (which I agree, as I didn’t think Riley should’ve been either), but I’m sure the excuses defending SF would far outweigh the critics.

 

[oldjar07]

I agree for the most part, but there were also a vocal minority who were already raising hell after year 1 that Riley should be gone because Pelini was able to win 9 games why couldn’t he even though he had a different offense and inherited a toxic culture. In contrast, SF is inheriting a soft (but not toxic) culture and is changing identities. He is also coming in with lower expectations and a seemly very difficult schedule. The difference, though, is that you won’t hear from probabo anyone after the season about firing SF even if he has a bad year because, again, he is one of us and once we knew Riley would be fired, everyone was behind the hire.

One question I have is if for some horrible reason SF loses to Northern Illinois in 2029 (?), are we going to give up on the season and hope for both SF and Moos to be fired? The obvious answer is no (which I agree, as I didn’t think Riley should’ve been either), but I’m sure the excuses defending SF would far outweigh the critics.

Like you said, it was a vocal minority. The vast majority wanted to give Riley more time. And sure, if Frost has the same type of season his first year there will be fewer people who are calling for his head already. That's probably a good thing. Why are you so worried about what a vocal minority thinks?

 

[kaz36]

I agree for the most part, but there were also a vocal minority who were already raising hell after year 1 that Riley should be gone because Pelini was able to win 9 games why couldn’t he even though he had a different offense and inherited a toxic culture. In contrast, SF is inheriting a soft (but not toxic) culture and is changing identities. He is also coming in with lower expectations and a seemly very difficult schedule. The difference, though, is that you won’t hear from probabo anyone after the season about firing SF even if he has a bad year because, again, he is one of us and once we knew Riley would be fired, everyone was behind the hire.

One question I have is if for some horrible reason SF loses to Northern Illinois in 2029 (?), are we going to give up on the season and hope for both SF and Moos to be fired? The obvious answer is no (which I agree, as I didn’t think Riley should’ve been either), but I’m sure the excuses defending SF would far outweigh the critics.

It's the same people that gave John Parella a pass because it was Bob Debacle's scheme but then wouldn't give someone like Donte Williams a pass because he "wasn't one of us".

 

[Pennsyhusker]

This debate is ignoring something important. People are willing to give Frost time because he is perceived to be a winner. He was a winner as a player, as an offensive coordinator, and as a head coach. Therefore, there is a legitimate excitement over his hire. Pelini was the same at first. He was perceived to be a winner.

Riley? Some people were scratching their heads over his hiring from the get-go because he was perceived to be a loser. His record as a head coach was very uninspiring. And... he was old and at the tail-end of his career. So he had a short leash.

Call it hypocrisy or whatever you want... but the Riley hire was stupid to the point of moronic, and some people voiced their deep concerns. And guess what? They were right.

So to call out Husker fans who are excited about Frost but who were dubious about Riley is just sour grapes bullshit by some on here who still want to justify their support for Riley to the bitter end. And hey... I was a huge Riley booster at the beginning of last year. I drank the Tanner Lee koolaid. But by mid season I had thrown in the towel and admitted I was wrong. But some on here kept beating the Riley drum like obnoxious HTO.

Time to move on. Riley sucked. His hire was dumb. The Frost hire has pumped in new life. And rightly so. The dude has got mojo. Too bad some on here seem to need to suck green lemons and throw ice water on everyone who is excited

 

[CheeseRunza]

- Behavior that contradicts what one claims to believe or feel-

So as a Nebraska football fan I believe it is fine to give the football coach ample time to recruit and establish his culture. Then, in year one, I say coach needs to change his offense to fit the current roster.

So I don’t think it is ok to give a coach time to establish his culture and recruit to his system?? Or does it depend on who the coach is?

So in reality you are correct in that it is ALSO a double standard. But it fits the definition of hypocrisy as well.

Yes, that statement would have elements of hypocrisy in it. However that was not what was presented as arguments or examples earlier in the thread. The earlier examples given were just of holding one coach accountable regardless of system change, and not another. Elements of a person changing their stance midstream were not mentioned. Furthermore, I’m not sure this example is rooted in reality. I don’t recall many people stating that Riley needed ample time to put a system in place and then calling for the hook immediately. Most of his detractors, who I am assuming are the ones being targeted as hypocrites, were against the hire from the beginning, didn’t believe that he would be successful, didn’t hold out much hope that he would be successful, were pretty vocal when he wasn’t successful, had him on a short rope from the beginning, and held him to that short rope. They seemed pretty consistent in their beliefs and their actions. But the larger point is whether a double standard is being applied. I can see where this view has some merit. But I also believe that while there are some similarities between staff changes, each change is unique in its environmental factors, goals, purpose, causation, scope, individuals involved, etc. I don’t think some universal standard of measurement/analysis should be applied to differing situations. So in that case, I think each case should be held to an individualized standard.

When it comes right down to it, the only standard that a decision maker would have to apply would be to determine if the program will be better in 2, 5 or 10 years with the current staff or with a new staff. Obviously they would need to determine what constitutes “better” and they would also have to establish some sort of trajectory based on past results and the current state of the program. So in the case of Riley, I believe most people and probably the decision makers as well, looked at the trajectory of the program, the current state of the program and had a hard time envisioning a major leap of success down the road. I believe that most felt that the program would be better off with just about anybody else at the helm. With Frost, he is already setting the trajectory. We have been told where the program was when he started, where it is now since conditioning, strength training and spring practices, and we have been given visions of where he wants to take it. People are buying into that vision, particularly since he had previous success at UCF, and they are willing to believe that the program will be better off in 2, 5, or 10 years with Frost than it would be with someone else. So yeah, he will probably be given quite a bit of slack as long as he keeps the program on a positive trajectory. Would other coaches be given that same slack? Some established coaches with proven track records, yes, others, probably not. Is that a double standard? I guess if you feel that each coaching change is identical than it probably is a double standard.

 

[bshirt73]

This debate is ignoring something important. People are willing to give Frost time because he is perceived to be a winner. He was a winner as a player, as an offensive coordinator, and as a head coach. Therefore, there is a legitimate excitement over his hire. Pelini was the same at first. He was perceived to be a winner.

Riley? Some people were scratching their heads over his hiring from the get-go because he was perceived to be a loser. His record as a head coach was very uninspiring. And... he was old and at the tale-end of his career. So he had a short leash.

Call it hypocrisy or whatever you want... but the Riley hire was stupid to the point of moronic, and some people voiced their deep concerns. And guess what? They were right.

So to call out Husker fans who are excited about Frost but who were dubious about Riley is just sour grapes bullshit by some on here who still want to justify their support for Riley to the bitter end. And hey... I was a huge Riley booster at the beginning of last year. I drank the Tanner Lee koolaid. But by mid season I had thrown in the towel and admitted I was wrong. But some on here kept beating the Riley drum like obnoxious HTO.

Time to move on. Riley sucked. His hire was dumb. The Frost hire has pumped in new life. And rightly so. The dude has got mojo. Too bad some on here seem to need to suck green lemons and throw ice water on everyone who is excited

Damn fine post sir.

Many of us highly doubted the MR hire for the obvious reasons you stated. Also, good God, two losing seasons in three years is about as pathetic as one can get. That's even worse than Clownahan.

HCSF has already accomplished more as a HC than Smiling Mike could ever dream of despite his decades of "coaching". It doesn't take a rocket scientist to determine our chances of returning to greatness with SF are far, far, far greater than with MR.

 

[HuskerO]

Nope. Just more fake news. I have repeatedly said I EXPECT this team to win 8 regular season games. That means looking at the schedule and predicting wins and losses based on matchups. I have also said that the minimum expectations for Nebraska football should be playing for the conference titles in most years. That doesn’t mean it has to happen in year one.

What you don’t seem to be able to do is understand the difference between expectations and “demands”.

Now I have called people out, maybe you, I don’t remember, for setting lower expectations based on the talent level. Going into 2017 very few expected to lose to Northern Illinois and finish with 4 wins. The expectations were to at least match the previous year’s win total.

I have also pointed out hypocrisy in people saying Frost should get time to bring in players to fit his system, when we expected Riley to adjust his scheme to fit the talent on the team. Or when people would say there were “toxins” left over from Pelini and that would be poo poo’d as excuses but for Frost the soft team he inherited is a valid excuse and takes time to fix.

As far as Riley goes, I had the same expectations for him. Most all of my defending of the previous staff was based on philosophy. I believe you can win at Nebraska with a WCO or the offense Riley and Langsdorf ran. The offense failed because of how the team was coached, not what offense philosophy they ran. Riley failed because of how he and Devaney managed the football operation at Nebraska not because of the offensive philosophy.

So sir, it is not just me with the supposed double standards.

Dang, this is a much better way of putting things than my post.

 

[HuskerO]

So what do you think are reasonable expectations after a 4 win season?

When firing one head coach and bringing in a new coach, prior year results doesn't mean jack in my opinion in terms of what's expected for the new coach.

Let's say Riley only won 2 games last year. Are the expectations for Frost now less?

To answer your question... my reasonable expectation for the 2018 season is 7 wins.

 

[oldjar07]

It's the same people that gave John Parella a pass because it was Bob Debacle's scheme but then wouldn't give someone like Donte Williams a pass because he "wasn't one of us".

John Parella's unit was much better than Donte Williams unit. That's why he was given a pass. Besides Donte Williams got plenty of passes due to recruiting even though it never amounted to anything.

 

[HuskerO]

Many of us highly doubted the MR hire for the obvious reasons you stated.

You forgot to add "never gave Riley a chance", which is totally fine. Just admit it & that if Frost goes 6-7, 9-4 and 4-8 you will not be calling for Frost's head. Again, that's fine (I won't be calling for his head either) just admit it.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to determine our chances of returning to greatness with SF are far, far, far greater than with MR.

I don't think one person here has ever claimed otherwise.

 

[kaz36]

John Parella's unit was much better than Donte Williams unit. That's why he was given a pass. Besides Donte Williams got plenty of passes due to recruiting even though it never amounted to anything.

 

[huskerfan1414]

Coach A inherits a team with some issues from the previous asshole and underachieving coach who averaged over 8 wins over 7 years. He also has a new offensive scheme from the previous coach and a roster that doesn’t fit said offensive scheme. His schedule was ranked around 50th and didnt have OSU or Mich plus had iowa and northwestern at home. The fans say he should alter his offensive scheme in certain situations and that a "football for dummies" book would 100% call for something other than what the smilin coach did....at least 3 of the losses (BYU, Illinois, and purdue) were due to serious coaching blunders. The coach lucked into a bowl game that was won due to excellent coaching and preparation. Some fans had legitimate concerns and these fans were called blo hards, bloners, or some variation by the thought police on here (regardless of their thoughts on pelini), were called hicks for wanting to run the ball or at least run the clock and their fanhood was questioned. After all, Mike was nice! He was .500 at OSU!

Coach B inherits a team with a shit ton of issues from the previous loser coach who won 6, 9, and 4 games while castrating the team. He also has a new offensive scheme from the previous coach and a roster that doesn’t entriely fit said offensive scheme. He also has what many experts believe to be the toughest schedule in the nation, definitely in the conference. Fans are saying we are expecting improvement but we know that we had one of the worst power five teams in the nation last year, the worst team in modern NU history, and we also know we have an extremely difficult schedule and so we probably wont win 9 games. A very small few are saying 4-5 wins while the vast majority are saying 6-8, which really is not low expectations when considering all of the above without being blinded by extreme butthurt, as many posters here obviously still are.

I fixed it for you above and made it accurate.

Heres the thing...lets say youre right and we should ignore that the two situations are different and assume everyone is a hypocrite and has different expectations this time around. Shouldnt you and tuco et al be happy that husker fans are now enlightened? Shouldnt you be saying "thank you, being realistic is how you should treat a new coach, this is what we tried saying under Riley and boy Im glad we are all on the same page now." But thats not what youre doing. Riley apologists are moving their expectations and calling out husker fans as if they were iowa fans. Sometimes I read comments and wonder why people care about Nebraska at all considering how much they loathe the fans and history.
Riley sucked and everyone who said he sucked was right.
Frost is entering an entirely different situation than Riley did and he can show improvement without winning 9 games.
THIS IS REALITY. DEAL WITH IT.

i tried staying away from it but its been too much same old same old. Lets get behind Frost and forget the past mistakes as HC because if he doesnt work out, no one will. If you dont like other husker fans, go to the iowa board.
GBR FOREVER

 

[Skerz4Life50]

This debate is ignoring something important. People are willing to give Frost time because he is perceived to be a winner. He was a winner as a player, as an offensive coordinator, and as a head coach. Therefore, there is a legitimate excitement over his hire. Pelini was the same at first. He was perceived to be a winner.

Riley? Some people were scratching their heads over his hiring from the get-go because he was perceived to be a loser. His record as a head coach was very uninspiring. And... he was old and at the tale-end of his career. So he had a short leash.

Call it hypocrisy or whatever you want... but the Riley hire was stupid to the point of moronic, and some people voiced their deep concerns. And guess what? They were right.

So to call out Husker fans who are excited about Frost but who were dubious about Riley is just sour grapes bullshit by some on here who still want to justify their support for Riley to the bitter end. And hey... I was a huge Riley booster at the beginning of last year. I drank the Tanner Lee koolaid. But by mid season I had thrown in the towel and admitted I was wrong. But some on here kept beating the Riley drum like obnoxious HTO.

Time to move on. Riley sucked. His hire was dumb. The Frost hire has pumped in new life. And rightly so. The dude has got mojo. Too bad some on here seem to need to suck green lemons and throw ice water on everyone who is excited

I don’t think there is anybody on here that isn’t excited or behind SF. This is a discussion board and it is for discussing differences in how people view the program. This idea that if someone somehow disagrees with you they are against you has completely taken over our society and it is ridiculous.

The double standard as CheeseRunza wants to say is actually an interesting discussion. It is always fun to see why people think the way they do, especially when they share a common interest. I think oldjar asked why it matters what the vocal minority thinks, that it is important because whether or not you want to admit it, they have a large impact on decisions. There are examples all over society. And if you look at random polls (yes unscientific) taken during and even after the season last year, many were still in favor of giving Riley more time. But there were also a very vocal bunch who basically threatened to stop supporting the program, which also had at least some impact on the decisions made. So what’s the point? I think it should also be completely fair to criticize SF if and when he does things wrong and he should also be judged the same as Riley after 2-3 years. If the program is stalled or slides, there is no reason the hire shouldn’t be questioned. I asked the question earlier, but what happens if he loses to NIU in 2019? Should everyone stop believing and then just go ahead and fire him then? That’s what happened with Riley...and there was still plenty of season left to play.

Scott Frost is a winner and I think he has everyone excited. That doesn’t mean he should somehow be given (imo) some extra arbitrary amount of time to get the program going. Riley was actually given a worse situation than Frost when he arrived. Players were so loyal to Pelini that the locker room was divided. Frost inherited an incredibly soft team who forgot how to win. They can be changed much easier because everyone wants to win. The Riley hire was strange, though, I agree. But just because he wasn’t what most wanted, that didn’t mean he didn’t deserve the time to get his program going, and I do actually think he was given enough time to prove it wasn’t going to happen. Moreso because he couldn’t control what was going on and was giving in and giving away to much control. But we can also make those same views of SF and all hope (for the entire program, fans, coaches, etc) that he leads us back to where we all want to go.

The main point is that just because some on here want to also hold SF to the same standards all other coaches have been held doesn’t mean we aren’t behind him. It just means he doesn’t get a pass because he is a Nebraskan.

 

[Skerz4Life50]

I fixed it for you above and made it accurate.

Heres the thing...lets say youre right and we should ignore that the two situations are different and assume everyone is a hypocrite and has different expectations this time around. Shouldnt you and tuco et al be happy that husker fans are now enlightened? Shouldnt you be saying "thank you, being realistic is how you should treat a new coach, this is what we tried saying under Riley and boy Im glad we are all on the same page now." But thats not what youre doing. Riley apologists are moving their expectations and calling out husker fans as if they were iowa fans. Sometimes I read comments and wonder why people care about Nebraska at all considering how much they loathe the fans and history.
Riley sucked and everyone who said he sucked was right.
Frost is entering an entirely different situation than Riley did and he can show improvement without winning 9 games.
THIS IS REALITY. DEAL WITH IT.

i tried staying away from it but its been too much same old same old. Lets get behind Frost and forget the past mistakes as HC because if he doesnt work out, no one will. If you dont like other husker fans, go to the iowa board.
GBR FOREVER

FFS this isn’t about not being behind Frost or still wanting Riley. It is a discussion board and for discussing differing views. It is for showing different sides. Not everyone in this world is going to agree with you. It doesn’t mean they are against you. I’m happy Riley is gone and I’m happy Frost is here. I’m 100% behind Frost. I just don’t get why our goalposts for how we evaluate our program has changed.

 

[huskerfan1414]

I don’t think there is anybody on here that isn’t excited or behind SF. This is a discussion board and it is for discussing differences in how people view the program. This idea that if someone somehow disagrees with you they are against you has completely taken over our society and it is ridiculous.

The double standard as CheeseRunza wants to say is actually an interesting discussion. It is always fun to see why people think the way they do, especially when they share a common interest. I think oldjar asked why it matters what the vocal minority thinks, that it is important because whether or not you want to admit it, they have a large impact on decisions. There are examples all over society. And if you look at random polls (yes unscientific) taken during and even after the season last year, many were still in favor of giving Riley more time. But there were also a very vocal bunch who basically threatened to stop supporting the program, which also had at least some impact on the decisions made. So what’s the point? I think it should also be completely fair to criticize SF if and when he does things wrong and he should also be judged the same as Riley after 2-3 years. If the program is stalled or slides, there is no reason the hire shouldn’t be questioned. I asked the question earlier, but what happens if he loses to NIU in 2019? Should everyone stop believing and then just go ahead and fire him then? That’s what happened with Riley...and there was still plenty of season left to play.

Scott Frost is a winner and I think he has everyone excited. That doesn’t mean he should somehow be given (imo) some extra arbitrary amount of time to get the program going. Riley was actually given a worse situation than Frost when he arrived. Players were so loyal to Pelini that the locker room was divided. Frost inherited an incredibly soft team who forgot how to win. They can be changed much easier because everyone wants to win. The Riley hire was strange, though, I agree. But just because he wasn’t what most wanted, that didn’t mean he didn’t deserve the time to get his program going, and I do actually think he was given enough time to prove it wasn’t going to happen. Moreso because he couldn’t control what was going on and was giving in and giving away to much control. But we can also make those same views of SF and all hope (for the entire program, fans, coaches, etc) that he leads us back to where we all want to go.

The main point is that just because some on here want to also hold SF to the same standards all other coaches have been held doesn’t mean we aren’t behind him. It just means he doesn’t get a pass because he is a Nebraskan.

Who has said this?
Hows this: if frost has the same results mike did after three years, he should be fired. Can we move on now??

 

[huskerfan1414]

FFS this isn’t about not being behind Frost or still wanting Riley. It is a discussion board and for discussing differing views. It is for showing different sides. Not everyone in this world is going to agree with you. It doesn’t mean they are against you. I’m happy Riley is gone and I’m happy Frost is here. I’m 100% behind Frost. I just don’t get why our goalposts for how we evaluate our program has changed.

You obviously didnt read my post ffs.
Never said you still wanted mike.

 

[Bugeater]

“The philosophying is most excellent here.” Bill & Ted.

 

[HuskerO]

Hows this: if frost has the same results mike did after three years, he should be fired.

I appreciate your consistency, but I think we both know that most don't / won't feel this way.

 

[staygoldponyboy]

Ya know, I really never thought we would be compared to what another school is doing successfully that we used to excel at.

I think too many are over simplifying this process and applying success to the end product before the process even starts. Get an "overachieving" worker who wants to be here, no matter what the stars are, coach him up and it will be fine. Is that the standard company line?

I am not saying it doesn't work or hasn't worked but someone tell me the last NC team to have successfully done so with this formula. I understand we have to start somewhere, so I give you that. Eventually, it all falls on the coaches anyway.

Last year was an impressive class. This year may be a step back. Not sure either class will be remembered for the OL haul. At this point it's just guesswork.