Haven't seen a lot of comments . . . seemed like they were a little bit out of their comfort zone.
Officials???
- Thread starter 8th Street
- Start date
Indeed! They were flat out terrible last night.
I like the ASU TD drop/breakup where the official was confused as to what to signal so he was like "screw it, TD!"
I like the ASU TD drop/breakup where the official was confused as to what to signal so he was like "screw it, TD!"
A
anon_umk0ifu6vj6zi
Guest
I thought the 2 holding calls that killed one of our drives were bad. They also screwed up Morgans fumble. No idea why they keep putting him back for kicks. He seems to run head on into alot of tackles.
Stanley didn't get the return yardage but did save a lot of field position with great sure handed catches he had to run down.
Field goal at end of the half. Their player took of his helmet..
That'll be the new, fake an injury, stop the clock, sneaky move. Anytime you need to buy a few seconds kick a shoe off.
Officials took t her time to make sure Arky State got another play off at end of game, give officials overall rating of poor!
Rules = poor
Seeing whole play = fail
Game situation reaction = poor
Being transparent = poor/fail
Penalty enforcement = good
Professionalism = fair
Rules = poor
Seeing whole play = fail
Game situation reaction = poor
Being transparent = poor/fail
Penalty enforcement = good
Professionalism = fair
I felt they worked pretty hard to screw both sides evenly, I didn't like them at all. They were very unpredictable.
My favorite was the roughing the passer call on the Huskers where the QB was knocked down after the pass by his own left tackle.
the major thing i questioned was why he was back there since he had suffered that hand injury and appeared to be bothering him since he injured it with a minute or two left in the 3rd quarter. though, i don't think he had the ball in the injured hand when he "fumbled"----would have to check replay of the return.
That was the correct call though. The clock was stopped due to the first down, negating the 10 second runoff.
The Morgan call was also correct. They didn't rule that he was down before the fumble, they ruled his forward progress had been stopped before the hit occured rendering the play dead before the fumble even happened.
i'm not so sure the Morgan fumble was officiated correctly. Morgan was still fighting forward and the hit happened. I understand that the play couldn't be reversed based on what they called but I don't think how they called it was correct. Not very often is forward progress was stopped called on a punt return. We got lucky.
On the kid shaking his helmet off to stop the clock, the penalty should have been delay of game or unsportsmanlike conduct. He took his own helmet off on the field. On first down, the clock only stops until the ready for play whistle. The kid shaking his helmet off allowed Arkansas St time to get the FG unit on the field. There was only 10 seconds on the clock when the previous play started, couldn't have been much more than 3 or 4 after the play.
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Not the point. Just because the ref blew the whistle doesn't mean he was correct. It just means he blew the call. If the teams were reversed I doubt you would be saying it was the correct call. Just like if a Nebraska player got away with taking his helmet off on the field, I would be saying it was a savy move. Regardless, neither was officiated correctly
The refs were definitely not the best and blew so many bad calls both ways. The punt return, we fumbled, that they called a dead ball, was a bad call. Seems like about 1/2 their calls were incorrect. I don't think they were trying to make bad calls for Arky-State but that it was just a badly refereed game.
It was almost like they took a high school officiating crew and put them in Memorial for their first gig. The best thing I have to say about that crew is that they were atrocious from the get-go and about as inconsistent as you can be.
The officials were terrible but what are you talking about, Kaz? Carlos was being chippy all night. Here he took at three steps after the ball is gone, puts his helmet up high, and shoves the qb backward with his arms. The offensive tackle was behind the qb and the qb obviously goes backwards. People were complaining about this Saturday night and must have been blind to this replay. This is pretty much the textbook definition of roughing the passer.
Hmmmmm...interesting physics there. You should check out the Seinfeld episode on the magic loogie spit by Keith Hernandez. It fits your world of physics.
Most people would think that a nearly 300# dlineman who runs and hits a qb with his shoulder pads and the shoves him is the cause of him going backward.
Forward progress is a judgement call by the officials. With the way the rules are today protecting players, I believe the official saw that Morgan's legs were wrapped up so they blew the whistle which ends the play.
I can't comment on the Morgan call, been out of town this weekend, haven't had a chance to rewatch the play.
However, unless I'm missing something in the rule book, you are incorrect about the helmet removal play. The clock only stops long enough on a first down to spot the ball, then it is supposed to restart. I also see nothing in the rule book making an exception for a first down, and this is exactly what the rule book says:
"
Helmet Comes Off--Timeout
ARTICLE 9. a. If a player’s helmet comes completely off through play, other than as the direct result of a foul by an opponent, the player must leave the game for the next down. The game clock will stop at the end of the down. The player may remain in the game if his team is granted a charged timeout."
Reading that part, you would think the refs were correct. However, right after that it says this:
"b. When the helmet coming off is the only reason for stopping the clock, other than due to an injury to the player or his teammate (Rule 3-3-5), the following conditions apply (A.R. 3-3-9-I-III):
1. The play clock will be set at 25 seconds if the player is on offense and at 40 seconds if the player is on defense. With one minute or more remaining in either half, the game clock will start on the
referee’s signal.
2. If there is less than one minute in the half the opponent has the option of a 10-second runoff, unless the helmet comes off as the direct result of a foul by the opponent."
Unless I'm missing something, b2 there would exactly cover this situation. The helmet coming off was the only reason for stopping the clock, there was less than a minute left in the half, and it didn't come off as a direct result of a foul by the opponent. There is nothing about a first down, or any other reason for stopping the clock, making a difference. Nebraska should have been given the option for a 10-second runoff. None of this even mentions the fact that the player removed his own helmet, which just a few paragraphs after what I quoted above, the rules state he should have penalized for Unsportsmanlike Conduct.
OK with that. It was a horrible call. That said, when it happens, it can't be "undone." That is what I'm referring to.
I guess the announcers disagreed with you also as they kind of groaned about the call also. Mason even said that the offensive lineman was the one that hit him after watching the same replay.
What you are getting wrong is where you say the only reason the clock stopped is because his helmet came off. Completely incorrect. The clock stopped because of the first down. How long it was going to remain stopped is irrelevant, it was stopped at the play's end for a reason other than a loss of hemet, therefore no runoff.
Was it a dirty tactic? Yes. Could it have been called unsportsmanlike? Absolutely.. but the ref was in the process of retrieving the ball to put it in play and the removal of the helmet was quick and subtle. Not going to blow up a ref over that one. His job was to grab the ball and spot it for play, not waste time paying attention to an uninjured player laying on the ground during a dead ball just in case the kid is gonna slide his hemet off.
The clock is only stopped temporarily, until the ball is placed ready for play. Ark St may not have had time to sprint their FG team out there, get set and snap the ball within 3 seconds. The helmet being off allowed them the necessary time, the purpose of the 10 second run off rule is exactly this, to not allow teams an unintended benefit of a rule designed for safety.
I understood what you were saying, but the fact the clock stopped initially because of a first down doesn't matter. The clock would have restarted as soon as the ball was set for play, it's highly unlikely ASU would have had a chance to get their field goal team in and setup in time to kick the field goal. This is all a moot point, however, because of the player removing his helmet.
Again, I will point out, there is nothing mentioned in the rules governing what happens when a player loses a helmet about the clock being stopped for any reason. The only stoppage mentioned is a timeout, as in a timeout can be used to avoid the player being removed from the game (and the 10-second runoff). If you are interested, it's rule 3-3-9.
To drive the point home more, read this approved ruling from the rulebook, which doesn't exactly match the situation, but mirrors it enough, it's essentially applicable. Approved Ruling 3-3-9 IV:
"During the down A22’s helmet comes off (no helmet foul by the defense) and A45 goes down with an injury. The ball carrier is tackled inbounds. When the clock is stopped it reads 0:58 in the
fourth quarter. RULING: Because the injury and the helmet off occur to players on the same team, there is an option for a 10-second runoff. Team A may keep A22 in the game and also avoid the 10-second runoff by taking one charged timeout."
Again, not exactly the same, but all the elements are there. Clock stoppage for some reason, offensive player loses his helmet, player tackled in bounds, inside one minute left in the half. The clock stopping (in this case because of injury, in our case because of a first down, which is only a temporary stop anyway) is irrelevant; as long as the only occurrence is to one team, the 10 second runoff is (supposed to be) given to the opposing team.
EDIT: I realize some of the confusion about what I said in my first post on this subject may have come from the line where I said the only reason the clock stopped was the player losing his helmet. I understand the clock stopped initially because of the first down, what I meant was the only reason the clock stayed stopped long enough for their field goal team to get setup and kick is the helmet thing. The clock would have only stopped for a few seconds at most because of the first down. In fact, if I remember correctly, the ball had already been spotted and was ready for play, when the ref walked in, blowing his whistle and signaling to stop the clock.
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I thought it was clear as day that Davis roughed the QB. Mason was looking at the wrong Husker. Davis is mostly obscured by his blocker, gets a shove in the back and then takes 1 or 2 steps before giving a healthy shove to the QB into his own OL
I thought so too. I wasn't sure what the TV announcers were talking about. We were lucky we didn't pick up a couple more roughing the passer calls, anything over a single step from the QB once the ball is gone is an easy flag. They let us get away with hitting the QB multiple times where the defender took multiple steps before the hit after the ball had left.
Agree. Those holding calls were killers, we were starting to roll and then those flags.Both were pretty weak. Gates got called for a really weak holding call in the first half as well.
Guys, I apologize. I was concentrating on the player rushing from the outside and only saw the tackle making contact with the QB. Completely missed Davis coming in from underneath and shoving him. My bad.
do the officials have a better view then the networks? just wondered cause that one play when you see the ark state player from the back it looked like he had possession going into the end zone. the networks had a side ways shot, but one infant of the player would clearly show he was bobbling the ball.
and they had to plug in the reviewer monitor
and they had to plug in the reviewer monitor
Not a problem. I've missed plenty watching the game. For instance I just had to give a mea culpa on the A-State receiver going out of bounds on the last play. I watched it multiple times but never saw it until Tuco pointed it out.
Yes officials have more views available. On one of the network views it looks to me like there was bobbling.
At 2:18:39
The fact the clock stopped initially because of a first down is the only thing that DOES matter.
here is a PDF listing helmet infraction procedures. Section 15 deals with the scenerio we are discussing.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...ggmMAE&usg=AFQjCNE0d495GmF6oo73Rz2kB6Sz-wMKrg
But to make the rule as simple as possible to understand.
If a foul, helmet removal, or injury in the final minute of a half stops the clock, there's a 10-second runoff option for the opponent. Otherwise, there is no option.
None of those three things stopped the clock. The first down did.
Officials only have access to the views available to them from the network. There are not extra, closed circuit cameras set up solely for official review. Sometimes, the networks actually have more views available than the officials. Not sure how that happens, but I know that in college basketball, there have been a number of close OB plays where the network was showing an angle on the play that the officials didn't have access to. It has to do with the the guys in the truck and how quickly they can get views and angles sent down to the courtside/fieldside monitors.
The officials were horrible both ways, I'd like to add my viewpoints on these if y'all don't mind.
1: The TD catch to me looked like he caught it, took a step and a half and the ball was punched out while he was moving it (not bobbling) which is what the expert said before the TD was taken away.
2. The fumble on the KR was blown dead AFTER the recovery and had the official not used the words forward progress prior to the review it would be ruled that way.
3. Arkansas State lost because we had too many drops, and too many missed tackles. Whether or not we're the better team on paper or at the end of the year is up for debate and I'm sure that leaves a sour taste in your mouths.
4. Go beat the brakes off OREGON
1: The TD catch to me looked like he caught it, took a step and a half and the ball was punched out while he was moving it (not bobbling) which is what the expert said before the TD was taken away.
2. The fumble on the KR was blown dead AFTER the recovery and had the official not used the words forward progress prior to the review it would be ruled that way.
3. Arkansas State lost because we had too many drops, and too many missed tackles. Whether or not we're the better team on paper or at the end of the year is up for debate and I'm sure that leaves a sour taste in your mouths.
4. Go beat the brakes off OREGON
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