LES Planned Outages

[tpmcg]

My biggest issue with how Biden and the far left are handling this is that these companies have already started to transition to green. This isn't a flip of the switch transition, and by cutting off the Keystone pipeline they are doing more damage than good. I equate it to quitting a job before you find a new one. Our current grid cant handle furnaces, let alone electric cars for everyone.

myself, i was against the pipeline at first, just because well, water.
and canadas need to deal with their own 'greenies' in bc, but now, i just want to pay the absolute lowest i can at the pump, so f*ck it - let it flow.
the 'tar sands', from my understanding, are even more costly to excavate, clean, pump, and refine than our own horizontal industry, so, it might sound good to open the pipeline, but ultimately, it'll add to the overall, burgeoning supply and make any margins in north america difficult.

 

[aNUstart]

FYI, for anyone in the Regency area in Omaha, we received a notification at work that OPPD will be cutting power in the area at 10 for about an hour. I don't know what the actual boundaries are.

 

[Reditus]

Yep. They don't understand that the market will transition to green energy as it becomes economically viable. Forcing it on the country too early will destroy the economy, making it harder for renewables to advance technologically.

I agree with you.

I also think advancing renewables is proving to be a problem. If they could get the storage issue figured out that would help some, but there are other issues to overcome as well as pointed out previously.

I don't think renewables will ever be the answer as far as base power.

If your on an island in the middle of the pacific, than yah that might be a good application.

 

[drubendall]

Even at that, nobody died from radiation when it happened. Nuclear plants are extremely safe.

We need to rebrand it. Give it a cool name like green fusion or something. Most people would buy that

 

[drubendall]

I agree with you.

I also think advancing renewables is proving to be a problem. If they could get the storage issue figured out that would help some, but there are other issues to overcome as well as pointed out previously.

I don't think renewables will ever be the answer as far as base power.

If your on an island in the middle of the pacific, than yah that might be a good application.

Germany is way out front on renewables and it's not going well. Prices have gone way up. They're buying most of their solar panels from China because it's cheaper.

 

[BeautifulDayintheNeighborhood]

myself, i was against the pipeline at first, just because well, water.
and canadas need to deal with their own 'greenies' in bc, but now, i just want to pay the absolute lowest i can at the pump, so f*ck it - let it flow.
the 'tar sands', from my understanding, are even more costly to excavate, clean, pump, and refine than our own horizontal industry, so, it might sound good to open the pipeline, but ultimately, it'll add to the overall, burgeoning supply and make any margins in north america difficult.

Oil will be moved pipeline or not. Trains and trucks mean more oil on the ground my friend.

 

[huskerfan66]

NPPD just had a press conference that explained a lot of background to the interconnects. Just because we're going to warm up over the next few days doesn't mean we've seen the end of power control

 

[drubendall]

Who has a standby generator for their home? I'd like to get something propane-powered even though it's not as efficient as gas or diesel. I have a 500 gallon propane tank that I'd like to tap into if necessary. Just enough to keep the blower on the furnace going and the refrigerator. general, kohler or honeywell?

 

[JaySker402]

FYI, for anyone in the Regency area in Omaha, we received a notification at work that OPPD will be cutting power in the area at 10 for about an hour. I don't know what the actual boundaries are.

was closer to 930. right in the middle of my dentist appt.

 

[huskerfan66]

Who has a standby generator for their home? I'd like to get something propane-powered even though it's not as efficient as gas or diesel. I have a 500 gallon propane tank that I'd like to tap into if necessary. Just enough to keep the blower on the furnace going and the refrigerator. general, kohler or honeywell?

I think you can use a natural gas powered generator. Gonna have to make some minor changes. They don't burn at the same rate. Like a grill, have to change orifice....

 

[TheBeav815]

You want to send a bill for having to unthaw a waterer? Good lord.

Unthaw? So freeze?

 

[GretnaShawn]

Who has a standby generator for their home? I'd like to get something propane-powered even though it's not as efficient as gas or diesel. I have a 500 gallon propane tank that I'd like to tap into if necessary. Just enough to keep the blower on the furnace going and the refrigerator. general, kohler or honeywell?

We run on propane now for heat and cooking. A propane generator has been in my list since I moved to my place a few years ago. I also have a 500 gallon tank. I’m considering adding a 1,000 tank and installing a whole house standby. From the minor research I’ve done, I can cover the whole hole house for about $6,000, not including the bigger tank.

I’ve looked at Generac and Cummings.

Long term goal is to figure out some solar option that isn’t ugly as sin and has a payback that isn’t laughable.

I would love for my power to be off the grid and in my own hands.

 

[TheBeav815]

IF you can't recognize that the "green" energy mandates have played a huge role in blackouts then there's no hope for you. When you have government entities mandating that a certain percentage of your power comes from "renewable" energy, it squeezes out traditional power generation methods. We've been shuttering coal plants in this country left and right because of government mandates. One nice thing about coal is that it is EXTREMELY easy to store. Natural gas is not by comparison. Don't get me started on wind and solar. We HAVE to maintain our ability to consistently produce energy from reliable sources and that doesn't mean wind and solar. It IS a national security issue.

Inaccurate. Ye olde Free Market killed coal plants in droves.

When a generation source becomes cheaper than another, utilities that can afford to reconfigure will do so. And they did.

No bigger load of bullshit has been shoveled in the last 20 years than the blame about who "killed" the coal industry. It's not a particularly efficient fuel, that's why we don't run trains and ships with it any more. It's largely obsolete because you can get better return using other fuels.

Natural gas and wind energy killed coal, not 'war on coal'

Cheap natural gas prices and the increasing availability of wind energy are pummeling the coal industry more than regulation, according to an analysis from CU Boulder and North Carolina State University.

www.colorado.edu

 

[TheBeav815]

It's -26 right now where I'm at with ZERO wind. No wind anywhere around me and I'm surrounded by wind towers withing 150 miles of me. Good Lord what did Obama and his idiots force on us with the government tax credits and mandates.

Again, you're cherrypicking your narrative. Yeah, there have been subsidies to develop those generation methods.

But you're never gonna believe what else was subsidized this entire time...

United States Spend Ten Times More On Fossil Fuel Subsidies Than Education

Amidst reports of a continuing climate crisis, an International Monetary Fund study released last month shows that USD$5.2 trillion was spent globally on fossil fuel subsidies in 2017. The United States has spent more subsidizing fossil fuels in recent years than it has on defense or education.

www.forbes.com

 

[Tuco Salamanca]

Again, you're cherrypicking your narrative. Yeah, there have been subsidies to develop those generation methods.

But you're never gonna believe what else was subsidized this entire time...

United States Spend Ten Times More On Fossil Fuel Subsidies Than Education

Amidst reports of a continuing climate crisis, an International Monetary Fund study released last month shows that USD$5.2 trillion was spent globally on fossil fuel subsidies in 2017. The United States has spent more subsidizing fossil fuels in recent years than it has on defense or education.

www.forbes.com

of course the article is from 2019 and the subsidies referenced in the article were from 2015 (Obama). It also talks about how 80% of the US could be powered by renewables, but that was before the left wanted to require 40% of all cars to be electric by 2025 or whatever. As I said before, we can't even produce enough electricity now to heat our homes let alone power 40% of the vehicles in the country.

 

[huskerfan66]

We run on propane now for heat and cooking. A propane generator has been in my list since I moved to my place a few years ago. I also have a 500 gallon tank. I’m considering adding a 1,000 tank and installing a whole house standby. From the minor research I’ve done, I can cover the whole hole house for about $6,000, not including the bigger tank.

I’ve looked at Generac and Cummings.

Long term goal is to figure out some solar option that isn’t ugly as sin and has a payback that isn’t laughable.

I would love for my power to be off the grid and in my own hands.

Only way to really do that would be a combo of wind,solar and wood. Propane would still be technically on the grid since somehow it's gotta be pumped here via pipeline or trucked in and then trucked to you.

How large of standby gen are you looking at??

 

[Tuco Salamanca]

I believe this is more of the uniting that Biden talks about. Instead of working with and aiding the legacy producers to more quickly and efficiently transition to renewables, which many are, he wants to cripple them financially. Not sure how this helps anyone.

 

[ADV1]

I'm in Texas and am one of the lucky ones who got power back yesterday around noon after 10+ hours... so many others have been off for 36+ hrs... been doing my part to help with generators and thawing pipes and giving advice...

Worst thing is that I warned so many people this was gonna be bad... I told them... "Take it from a Nebraskan who's lived with this crap his entire life" and many chose to blow it off and are now the ones asking for help.... I haven't said one "I Told you so" but in my head I'm thinking it...

 

[TheBeav815]

You have more flexibility in your portfolio for starters. And many other power plants have upgraded their equipment through the years just fine. OPPD modifies their exhaust with additives to better improve the capture rate of their ESPs And they will be putting in a few more natural gas peaking plants in addition to their increasing wind portfolio. Like other power plants throughout the country, they have managed to upgrade their equipment to meet the standards put in by the older Bush through the CAA of 1990. But keep pushing out your conspiracies about the ruling junta.

If you can get them warmed up enough, maybe they'll be ready to think about the notion that if the fuel/energy people need to survive weather extremes is only provided on a "Can I make a tidy profit from it" basis, there's just about no incentive for anyone to have a plant that fires up one week a year when the polar vortex breaks out. That maybe...JUST MAYBE...life-sustaining utilities should be public like what those communists out in Omaha did with their power district.

Everyone accepts that their city sewage is public but for some reason electricity needs to be overthought by a factor of 50.

It's HILARIOUS to me that people think TX has windmills because "Obama made em do it." You ever hear anything about Texas ever? They're sorta not known for jumping on neoliberal ideas and they ARE sorta known for doing whatever the f**k is profitable energy-wise. You may have heard some mention of them in relation to oil. They're in favor.

Also maybe you're unfamiliar with how government works but do you really think that if the big money players in energy didn't want wind and solar to exist they'd ever have gotten tax credits? ComEd and all the big daddies want to suckle at that sweet govt tit while they find the next, cheaper method of generation just like all the other players in the space do.

If you ever, I mean EVER think that somebody is too proud to take govt money go ask your most right-wing of buddies how long they waited to send back their stimulus $$. Bet they can't tell you fast enough that they deserve it.

Texas has windmills because utilities know new wind farms are cheaper to start than other kinds of power plants. But don't take my word for it...

Does Wind ‘Work’ Without Subsidies? - FactCheck.org

President Donald Trump has repeatedly questioned the economics of wind energy, saying that wind "doesn't work" without subsidies. Experts have differing assessments of that. By some metrics, wind power is already competitive with fossil fuels without subsidies. But other measures don’t come to...

www.factcheck.org

 

[rcnut223]

Our power just went out and saw an article on 10/11 that they are doing rotating planned outages of 30-60 minutes (or more).

In Wisconsin our power is off for 3 hours every evening 6pm -9pm. With the temps we have been seeing lately it gets pretty cold by 9.

 

[GretnaShawn]

Only way to really do that would be a combo of wind,solar and wood. Propane would still be technically on the grid since somehow it's gotta be pumped here via pipeline or trucked in and then trucked to you.

How large of standby gen are you looking at??

I still kick myself for not putting in a wood burning stove in my basement. My in-laws have one in their kitchen and my wife remembers several chimney fires as a kid. So we didn’t do it. Totally regret it. We live in the woods. So plenty of oak to burn.

Propane is the short term solution for outages and the like. Long term is renewable energy for getting off grid or close to it.

I am looking at somewhere between 16 kW and 22 kW. I could probably get away with 16 kW for the essentials. But for an extra $900 I can get a 22kW.

Unfortunately solar is just in affordable (on a payback scale) and not so unsightly. The real glimmer of hope is the advancement in power storage batteries. I’m praying for Tesla to start kicking ass on the solar front.

 

[TheBeav815]

of course the article is from 2019 and the subsidies referenced in the article were from 2015 (Obama). It also talks about how 80% of the US could be powered by renewables, but that was before the left wanted to require 40% of all cars to be electric by 2025 or whatever. As I said before, we can't even produce enough electricity now to heat our homes let alone power 40% of the vehicles in the country.

A lot of things from a lot of years ago reference goals that don't come to fruition. The point was that oil and gas have been heavily subsidized since just about always, so it's dumb to pretend like windmills got special treatment.

 

[TheNewNU]

Unprotected plumbing because that's how you build in places like that. You don't build and insulate for 25-50 year freak occurances. Talk about a waste of BILLIONS.
And how do you heat without electricity? Short of a wood burning stove? Last I checked my gas furnace needed electricity for the blower to run.
None of these problems with Nuclear. Believe with modern thorium salt nuclear plants you don't even have the nasty waste to worry about. But idiots scared everyone off of nuclear because nuclear=bombs.

By idiots you mean the solar and wind power lobbyists

 

[TheBeav815]

I still kick myself for not putting in a wood burning stove in my basement. My in-laws have one in their kitchen and my wife remembers several chimney fires as a kid. So we didn’t do it. Totally regret it. We live in the woods. So plenty of oak to burn.

Propane is the short term solution for outages and the like. Long term is renewable energy for getting off grid or close to it.

I am looking at somewhere between 16 kW and 22 kW. I could probably get away with 16 kW for the essentials. But for an extra $900 I can get a 22kW.

Unfortunately solar is just in affordable (on a payback scale) and not so unsightly. The real glimmer of hope is the advancement in power storage batteries. I’m praying for Tesla to start kicking ass on the solar front.

Tough to justify the cost on that generator unless you stand to lose tons of money somehow if your power is out. If it's a matter of convenience and you feel like it, sure, go nuts.

Neighbors with lots of southern-facing roof did solar and they were making their money back way faster than the estimates. We have crap for southern roof exposure so I haven't really looked into it. Plus I have a big tree that would need to come down which is another $600+ to drop.

Since you like thinking about stuff like that you'll enjoy this:

 

[Tuco Salamanca]

By idiots you mean the solar and wind power lobbyists

I don't think it is just solar and wind lobbyist. It is just a taboo word. As was referenced earlier, when you hear nuclear you think bomb not energy. You think 3 mile island not safe way to provide power.

 

[GretnaShawn]

Tough to justify the cost on that generator unless you stand to lose tons of money somehow if your power is out. If it's a matter of convenience and you feel like it, sure, go nuts.

Neighbors with lots of southern-facing roof did solar and they were making their money back way faster than the estimates. We have crap for southern roof exposure so I haven't really looked into it. Plus I have a big tree that would need to come down which is another $600+ to drop.

Since you like thinking about stuff like that you'll enjoy this:

View embedded media

We have a south facing roof. But it’s the front of our house. Solar panels are just so damn ugly.

 

[TheBeav815]

I don't think it is just solar and wind lobbyist. It is just a taboo word. As was referenced earlier, when you hear nuclear you think bomb not energy. You think 3 mile island not safe way to provide power.

The problem with nuclear is cost, which is certainly related to safety. It costs a great deal of money to ensure you don't accidentally irradiate thousands or millions of people.

That startup price basically means that if the govt ain't buying, utilities are not building a nuclear plant.

Why Don’t We Have More Nuclear Power?

The role of this virtually carbon-free power source has shrunk since its peak in 1996.

www.technologyreview.com

 

[TheBeav815]

We have a south facing roof. But it’s the front of our house. Solar panels are just so damn ugly.

I think you'd find them a lot prettier after seeing a couple months of summer electric bills. The greater question is are you gonna stay in the house long enough to make your money back.

It's like refinancing a mortgage at a lower rate. Of course you should do it...IF you're not gonna turn around and sell the house in 3 years.

 

[drubendall]

If you can get them warmed up enough, maybe they'll be ready to think about the notion that if the fuel/energy people need to survive weather extremes is only provided on a "Can I make a tidy profit from it" basis, there's just about no incentive for anyone to have a plant that fires up one week a year when the polar vortex breaks out. That maybe...JUST MAYBE...life-sustaining utilities should be public like what those communists out in Omaha did with their power district.

Everyone accepts that their city sewage is public but for some reason electricity needs to be overthought by a factor of 50.

It's HILARIOUS to me that people think TX has windmills because "Obama made em do it." You ever hear anything about Texas ever? They're sorta not known for jumping on neoliberal ideas and they ARE sorta known for doing whatever the f**k is profitable energy-wise. You may have heard some mention of them in relation to oil. They're in favor.

Also maybe you're unfamiliar with how government works but do you really think that if the big money players in energy didn't want wind and solar to exist they'd ever have gotten tax credits? ComEd and all the big daddies want to suckle at that sweet govt tit while they find the next, cheaper method of generation just like all the other players in the space do.

If you ever, I mean EVER think that somebody is too proud to take govt money go ask your most right-wing of buddies how long they waited to send back their stimulus $$. Bet they can't tell you fast enough that they deserve it.

Texas has windmills because utilities know new wind farms are cheaper to start than other kinds of power plants. But don't take my word for it...

Does Wind ‘Work’ Without Subsidies? - FactCheck.org

President Donald Trump has repeatedly questioned the economics of wind energy, saying that wind "doesn't work" without subsidies. Experts have differing assessments of that. By some metrics, wind power is already competitive with fossil fuels without subsidies. But other measures don’t come to...

www.factcheck.org

Why would you send your stimulus back? You get to pay for it three times over in taxes.

 

[GretnaShawn]

Why would you send your stimulus back? You get to pay for it three times over in taxes.

The ‘well you take the benefit’ argument always kills me. Yes, the government forces time to pay for social security by threat of armed men coming to my home and making me live in a cage if I don’t pay. And they’re nice enough to do it without an opt out option (unless you joins certain Union). Forgive me if I collect on the money they forcibly took from me.

If I had the option to opt out, meaning not take the stimulus money so I am not on the hook for paying it back, then I would have. But spare me the ‘you took it hypocrite!’ line when I have no choice in the matter.

 

[oldjar07]

Yes, no one died, but they still have a sh!t ton of contaminated soil etc around the containment area near Fukushima. Geiger counters etc near the town's close by to make sure radiation levels are fine.
But again, Fukushima was OLD ASS technology. EXTREMELY outdated. Chernobyl was that and Russian to boot.
Three mile island? Well according to a terrible movie I saw I believe that was caused by Wolverine and Deadpool.

Three mile island was a joke. A complete non-issue really. In Fukushima people died almost exclusively from unnecessary and unsafe evacuations than anything else. Only 1 worker officially died years later from cancer, but even that's questionable if it was even caused by the radiation from the plant. Even Chernobyl had far less deaths than people think. We could have thousands of Chernobyls a year, and still less people would die from that than people who die from fossil fuel pollution every year. I know the word "nuclear" must have been scary to a lot of people growing up in the middle of the Cold War years, but nuclear power is by far the safest source of energy.

 

[drubendall]

The ‘well you take the benefit’ argument always kills me. Yes, the government forces time to pay for social security by threat of armed men coming to my home and making me live in a cage if I don’t pay. And they’re nice enough to do it without an opt out option (unless you joins certain Union). Forgive me if I collect on the money they forcibly took from me.

If I had the option to opt out, meaning not take the stimulus money so I am not on the hook for paying it back, then I would have. But spare me the ‘you took it hypocrite!’ line when I have no choice in the matter.

exactly. It's a s similar argument that some of my 'we need more taxes' friends make. I ask them if they voluntarily send additional money to the IRS, because that is an option. Well, no. We need to tax the rich guy more. He doesn't pay his fair share. Oh, OK. And who is the rich guy? It's anyone making more money than them. .

 

[Oiler402]

Thank goodness for coal plants. Or right now we’d have power for about an hour a day right now.

 

[Oiler402]

Until fusion becomes a reality coal is the best we got if we want a reliable power grid.

 

[TampaBaySkers]

Wind power has many detriments. #1 is that the actual procurement of materials and manufacture of the components produces huge amounts of toxic waste. #2 is that it is only feasible through massive government subsidies. #3 is that when you add up the energy used in procuring the materials, the manufacturing, the transportation, the construction, and the maintenance they are NET ENERGY LOSERS. #4 They are UNRELIABLE. Horrible energy policy. We're beginning to look more like Iraq than that shining city on the hill with the power outages and burned out neighborhoods.

Take a good look at Germany. Emissions have gone up, cost has gone up, reliability has gone down.

France is in a much better position with all their nuclear power.

 

[Baxter48]

If it wasn’t so expensive I’d go with geothermal heating and cooling I know several people that have it and once you get past the initial investment its pretty simple and economical

 

[tpmcg]

Oil will be moved pipeline or not. Trains and trucks mean more oil on the ground my friend.

tim, as i indicated, if it brings more to market, then its good for us at the pump.

 

[drubendall]

If it wasn’t so expensive I’d go with geothermal heating and cooling I know several people that have it and once you get past the initial investment its pretty simple and economical

Yeah, 20 to 25 grand to my build. Had to pass, but I wish I had it.

 

[LoudHogRider]

If it wasn’t so expensive I’d go with geothermal heating and cooling I know several people that have it and once you get past the initial investment its pretty simple and economical

I converted to geothermal when I lived on our acreage. The largest expense is installing the well loops needed to circulate the fluid for extended periods below ground, where the temps are 45-55 degrees pretty consistently. In the winter, you're basically heating from that point to whatever your target temp in your home is, and in the summer you're using that cooler fluid as a temp source vs. an air conditioner or heat pump.

The cost of a good geothermal furnace (we went with a brand called Water Furnace) is similar to a high-end traditional HVAC setup. There are other potential "hidden" costs. As an example, we had a legacy propane furnace and switching to geothermal meant we needed an electric burner for winter and (sadly) my electrical junction box was near max capacity. I had to have OPPD bring another 240V line to the house and install a new junction box to support the Water Furnace, so you still need access to that grid OR your own off-grid electrical generation capability to power your home.

With all of that said, the unit & install cost was pretty much break even by the time we sold and "moved to town". Our OPPD rates were much lower in the summer and our propane consumption in the winter was dramatically lower in the winter. The geothermal HVAC systems are definitely more energy efficient if you can float the up-front installation costs and await the cost savings over the years.

 

[Dean Pope]

Long term goal is to figure out some solar option that isn’t ugly as sin and has a payback that isn’t laughable.

I would love for my power to be off the grid and in my own hands.
[/QUOTE]
The price of solar panels and lithium storage has been going down year by year. And there's still tax credits available. The issue is in Nebraska we've got cheap coal and natural gas here coming from Wyoming so our electricity is cheap compared to other states and the ROI on adding solar is going to probably be 10-15 years depending on your location. There are better places to invest, but it will pay back better than a simple savings account and you gain the independence of being off the grid.