No shooting skills yet Shaq was one of the most dominant NBA players of all time. You say that like those things don't matter or are simple to do. Shoving 7'0 300 lb players out of your way and rebounding against those same players isn't easy and Shaq did it better than anyone. It's laughable that people think shooting is the only important skill in basketball.
LeBron or Michael
- Thread starter red scowl
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He is a better shooter. LeBron gets a lot of bully lay ups to pad his stats.
LeBron dominates the ball Jordan didn't do that but one season and he had the same stats like LeBron from the 2 guard position. In an era of dominant centers unlike now.
Not to mention his stats at age 39-41 are included.
Jordan's best single season fg 53.9%. Best single season 3pt 37.6%. Best Effective fg 55.0%.
Lebron's best single season fg 56.7%. Best single season 3pt 40.6%. Best Effective fg 61.0%.
Again if free throws is your determiner for best shooter, MJ was better. If not, it's Lebron.
Free throw shooting is a good indicator of a good shooter. Tbh.
Or just watch the games and where they shoot from.
Hell a lot of guys had a better shooting%.
Jordan is still the better scorer and defender.
I would say that the older leagues were more skilled. Better passing and ball handling than today. Way better athletes in todays league and better long range shooting.
Rodman did it better than Shaq, while giving up 6 inches and 80 lbs. Shaq was a much better offensive player, but Rodman was the better big man defender and rebounder. Shaq was lost against any big man who could shoot from 10'. He was also irrelevant on a fast break. It was great watching Rodman get under Shaq's skin.
Rodman and Mourning when the Bulls met the Heat in the Eastern Conference playoffs was worth watching all by itself.
This is silly....Jordan by a mile. It would be better to compare him against someone like the Big O, and I'll add Id take Oscar over Lebron any day of the week too.
Jordan by a long ways Lebron has hand pick the last 2 teams he was on and only has 3 rings.
Jordan by a country mile lebron is very good but could have he held up daily against the Detroit Boston Philadelphia Atlanta Chicago in the east and the lakers Houston Utah San Antonio Seattle Portland in the west in those days when Detroit was Winning champions there was way more competition. Plus Jordan made his teammates better
Jordan was also the DPOY. The guy has better defensive stats than LBJ.
I tend to side with the more recent eras when comparing players. There are generally more people to draw from, the training regimes have improved, the equipment has improved, the techniques themselves have evolved, etc.. You notice how no one ever claims that a track or swimming star from the 60s is better than someone today. We can just look at the times and say, "nope." The idea that the team sports don't improve as well is nostalgia to the point of delusion.
That being said, Jordan was better than LeBron.
Shaq was 7-1 and 325, you could train any gorilla to accomplish what Shaq did..
Shooting and ball handling are right up there with oxygen when talking about basketball skills.
If you get one guy for one game.... yeah its probably Jordan
If you are starting a franchise and you get the player's entire career? It will probably be Lebron when all is said and done.
Lebron is taking Jordan-esque dominance and putting a longevity on it that has never been seen before. Jordan had two three year streaks of championships and he had one or two all-time-great players with him for both. Lebron has been at the top of the league for nearly 12 seasons... with him being an a whole other level the last four years or so. He keeps getting better too... he can play like Michael Jordan when he needs to... but he can also play like Karl Malone.
In addition, Michael is a known adulterer, a degenerate gambler, and widely known as a real jerk. Lebron is an all around good guy that has donated millions to good causes. He's also not afraid of taking on stand on issues he believes in.
If you are starting a franchise and you get the player's entire career? It will probably be Lebron when all is said and done.
Lebron is taking Jordan-esque dominance and putting a longevity on it that has never been seen before. Jordan had two three year streaks of championships and he had one or two all-time-great players with him for both. Lebron has been at the top of the league for nearly 12 seasons... with him being an a whole other level the last four years or so. He keeps getting better too... he can play like Michael Jordan when he needs to... but he can also play like Karl Malone.
In addition, Michael is a known adulterer, a degenerate gambler, and widely known as a real jerk. Lebron is an all around good guy that has donated millions to good causes. He's also not afraid of taking on stand on issues he believes in.
Watch some highlights of Shaq with the Magic. He wasn't just some big lumbering giant that bulled people over... he was incredibly athletic and had great footwork.
There have been plenty of huge centers in the NBA but none have been dominant like Shaq... just saying he was good because he was big is not accurate.
I agree, I'm not even saying Lebron is a better player, I just think a lot of the arguments for Jordan are based on things people can't quantify like he hates losing, he was a competitor, his era was better, etc. whereas when you actually look at the numbers Lebron is just better in a lot of areas that people credit to MJ because of all the iconic moments he had in his career. I mean just now you're saying you remember where they shot from so that makes him a better shooter even though the numbers, including the most difficult shots (3pt%) show that Lebron was better over his career and at his best. I'm not saying you're wrong, but a lot of the arguments for MJ are more about feel than actual data. If Lebron retired now I'd still say MJ was probably better. But MJ retired after his 15th season, Lebron is in his 15th season and just put up 51-8-8 in the Finals.
While we are talking about NBA greats, let's mention Phil Jackson. The guy has more rings than fingers: two as a player, eleven as a coach.
Just looking at the second three-peat: Yeah, he had Jordan, Pippen, and Rodman on the second three-peat, but he built a dominant team with Luc f'n Longley as the center. He had an underrated Ron Harper handling the ball and d'ing up the ball handler, so Jordan could conserve energy. He had a creative bench which feature Kukoc as the sixth man of the year and Kerr as a money 3-point specialist. While Rodman seems like a no-brainer now, he was pulled in from the Spurs after being cited as a problem child and scapegoated for their failures in the post season. And sure, Rodman was/is a nutcase, but Jackson got great production out of him. I don't know what my dream NBA team looks like, but Jackson is certainly the coach.
Just looking at the second three-peat: Yeah, he had Jordan, Pippen, and Rodman on the second three-peat, but he built a dominant team with Luc f'n Longley as the center. He had an underrated Ron Harper handling the ball and d'ing up the ball handler, so Jordan could conserve energy. He had a creative bench which feature Kukoc as the sixth man of the year and Kerr as a money 3-point specialist. While Rodman seems like a no-brainer now, he was pulled in from the Spurs after being cited as a problem child and scapegoated for their failures in the post season. And sure, Rodman was/is a nutcase, but Jackson got great production out of him. I don't know what my dream NBA team looks like, but Jackson is certainly the coach.
For whatever reason people fail to mention or understand this when mentioning how physical the league was back in the day.
Poward forwards like Oakley, Davis boys from Indiana, Mahorn and such couldn't make an NBA roster today.
I mean I laugh imagine these guys gaurding the 4s and 5s today. It would be hilarious.
No knock on Jordan because he did play great defense but let's be honest it was a lot easier to gaurd those guys who weren't multiple. Most all bigs did the same...back to the basket post game etc. The really good shooters mostly shot off of screens and picks and couldn't put it on the floor and get their own shots.
It's funny that people think a guy like Bron in his prime couldn't gaurd a Jordan when a 6'3 gaurd like Joe Dumars gave him all he wanted ALL THE TIME.
Revisionists history...the gift that keeps giving.
Holla
Like I said people remember what they wanna remember. You are so right. Had they said Jordan was a better SCORER...I could've agreed but he wasn't a better shooter,passer , or ball handler than Bron. Idk where people get some of this stuff from.
Holla
You forgot his free throws they used to call it hack a Shaq guaranteed miss
I'm sorry noone in the NBA ever dominated the ball like Jordan. Kobe got the blue print from him and became the clostest to it but not even he surpassed MJ.
The finals game against the Jazz where Jordan drops like 45 on them. He gets a ton of credit for that performance. Yet many won't ever remember he got that 45 on like 39 shots. He was not as an efficient scorer and Bron and was more of a volume shooter.
Of course he could get it going at times and score on anyone and that can't be denied. But if u guys can't remember the 6-28s that he shot idk what to tell u.
Holla
I'd rather watch Stephen Curry do his thing with all the skills he has over LeBron James skills.
That's just me.
That's just me.
Personal preferences...sure, Curry is fun to watch. No one is arguing, however, that Curry is the superior player.
Of course it is just like this whole thread is too...
Personal preference....
I prefer Russell Westbrook's game myself with his insane drives and explosiveness. I hope that he can lose a bit of his Kobe "I can and will do everything by myself" mentality that is holding him back a bit.Of course it is just like this whole thread is too...
Personal preference....
Lebron is in his 15th season, and is 33 years old. Jordan, when he retired after 15 seasons, was 40 years old. Are you really comparing a 33 year old to a 40 year old?
What was Jordan doing at age 33? That’s what I want to know...
Michael Jordan. Never once did I know his political stance. Lebron is a big fing baby that wont shut the f up. He needs to bone Hillary and be done.
He was in the middle of his second three peat one season away from retiring for a second, but not final time. Not Lebrons fault MJ quit twice, Lebron has already played about 3000 more career minutes than MJ did, MJ had at least 10000 fewer minutes on his body at 33. If you want to compare career accomplishments at age 33 it’s not even close, Lebron destroys him.
The best I could do if I had to choose between MJ or LJ is as myself this:
which player do I believe gives me the best chance to win, especially in playoffs and title games. For me, it would be Jordan.
which player do I believe gives me the best chance to win, especially in playoffs and title games. For me, it would be Jordan.
If you think that you didn't watch much Jordan. The triangle was designed to prev3nt him from being double teamed.,...No he didn't. You forget he had a LeBron on his team. Scottie Pippen.
I have to question what you say if you think he dominated the ball his championship years.
Let's get real, with the Charmin soft defense that is played today Jordan could easily average 40 plus a game every year. It would be comical.
Easily...They let the offensive player push off too. He would kill.
