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Is our NFL level talent really that much worse than

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The Frank Solich years, and late Bo years? Or is the talent the same level we just no longer get the benefit of the doubt because we are not winning?

Logic would say less talent, less wins. Or is same talent, less development?
 
You don't make the NFL if you don't get better from high school. The number of players getting drafted will increase under Frost. Riley was such a bad coach that players were even getting worse than their high school days. Frost is busying trying to get them to switch back and improve their game.
 
You don't make the NFL if you don't get better from high school. The number of players getting drafted will increase under Frost. Riley was such a bad coach that players were even getting worse than their high school days. Frost is busying trying to get them to switch back and improve their game.

Absolutely. From Smiling Mike to HCSF is a MONSTER sized upgrade.
 
Frank Solich was not great at “developing players” hence the 7-7 season and getting his ass beat by every good team he played after TOs recruits left. That 2000 recruiting class was dog shit.

It's easy as pie to slam Frank for winning only due to TO's recruits. People like you used to slam TO for not winning the big games. It took 22 years for TO to win the big games even with Devaney's recruits.....yeah, he sucked too.

And yeah, Devaney had a couple 6-4 seasons.....he sucked too.
 
It's easy as pie to slam Frank for winning only due to TO's recruits. People like you used to slam TO for not winning the big games. It took 22 years for TO to win the big games even with Devaney's recruits.....yeah, he sucked too.

And yeah, Devaney had a couple 6-4 seasons.....he sucked too.


What I have a hard time reconciling with regards to Solich is that if he was a high end power 5 conference coach and essentially got a raw deal at Nebraska -he essentially took over what Alabama is today - he should be killing it in the MAC. He has been at Ohio for over a decade and hasn’t won the conference.

If you look at things in reverse very few high end power 5 programs would entertain hiring a MAC coach with Solich’s resume at Ohio.

His resume at Ohio is a bit above average competing against MAC level head coaches.

There were a few other off the field things that didn’t help to provide him the benefit of the doubt as well
 
It's easy as pie to slam Frank for winning only due to TO's recruits. People like you used to slam TO for not winning the big games. It took 22 years for TO to win the big games even with Devaney's recruits.....yeah, he sucked too.

And yeah, Devaney had a couple 6-4 seasons.....he sucked too.
TO won plenty of big games before he made his run. He just couldn’t win the NC. I thought we were talking player development/recruiting.

Frank Solich developed some of the best players this program has ever had...... as a RB coach.

As a head coach he is what he is : Average

If he was some great coach another major conference team would have offered him a job.
 
My son is relaxing on the couch right now. Pretty good baseball player, turns 14 next month. Proud of the young man he's becoming, probably needs to start shaving soon.

He wasn't born when Solich coached at Nebraska. Move on.
 
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I don't think the talent is that much worse, but you have to remember that Riley didn't turn over the roster right away to fit his system. We spent two years jacking around with square peg stuff.

Frost isn't going to really mess around with that I don't think. I get the impression he is going to turn it over right away, as much as he can.

The talent we get will will fit the system. How much of that then fits the NFL, I don't really concern myself with.
 
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You don't make the NFL if you don't get better from high school. The number of players getting drafted will increase under Frost. Riley was such a bad coach that players were even getting worse than their high school days. Frost is busying trying to get them to switch back and improve their game.
Which Nebraska players over the past 2 drafts do you think would've been drafted (that weren't) if Riley wasn't HC?

Riley obviously didn't help with development but let's not pretend we have had a bunch of NFL talent over the past two season that didn't get drafted because of Riley.
 
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It's easy as pie to slam Frank for winning only due to TO's recruits. People like you used to slam TO for not winning the big games. It took 22 years for TO to win the big games even with Devaney's recruits.....yeah, he sucked too.

And yeah, Devaney had a couple 6-4 seasons.....he sucked too.
I think the point is that TO never went .500 and Nebraska was almost always in the Top 10 and/or in the discussion of playing for a major bowl or National Championship. That didn't happen under Solich.

Devaney was allowed a couple of average seasons after winning the Big-8 conference & finishing in the Top 10 four season in a row.
 
What I have a hard time reconciling with regards to Solich is that if he was a high end power 5 conference coach and essentially got a raw deal at Nebraska -he essentially took over what Alabama is today - he should be killing it in the MAC. He has been at Ohio for over a decade and hasn’t won the conference.

If you look at things in reverse very few high end power 5 programs would entertain hiring a MAC coach with Solich’s resume at Ohio.

His resume at Ohio is a bit above average competing against MAC level head coaches.

There were a few other off the field things that didn’t help to provide him the benefit of the doubt as well


Hmmmm...well, that's several points that are difficult to refute. Would you please quit doing that? :)

Haha....again, you state several solid points. But there's almost unlimited variables involved here I think. For example, how could a recent Super Bowl HC be a truly massive HC failure for NU? Maybe only Clownahan can answer that?

Also, Frank's an old man now (how old is he? 70 or more?) and has been for some time. While there certainly are exceptions but bright, successful HC's are usually somewhere under 50 years old. Sure, that's an excuse, I know. But c'mon.....Frank in his 60s & 70s at a program that's never won anything that I can recall.....well, I think that's a little unfair. I dare say that Alabama or Nebraska is a lot, lot different than Ohio in many ways.

Anyways, your points are valid and I don't have a good answer. To a degree however, most College football coaches don't shine to bright when they're 60 or 70 + years old.
 
Hmmmm...well, that's several points that are difficult to refute. Would you please quit doing that? :)

Haha....again, you state several solid points. But there's almost unlimited variables involved here I think. For example, how could a recent Super Bowl HC be a truly massive HC failure for NU? Maybe only Clownahan can answer that?

Also, Frank's an old man now (how old is he? 70 or more?) and has been for some time. While there certainly are exceptions but bright, successful HC's are usually somewhere under 50 years old. Sure, that's an excuse, I know. But c'mon.....Frank in his 60s & 70s at a program that's never won anything that I can recall.....well, I think that's a little unfair. I dare say that Alabama or Nebraska is a lot, lot different than Ohio in many ways.

Anyways, your points are valid and I don't have a good answer. To a degree however, most College football coaches don't shine to bright when they're 60 or 70 + years old.

thanks ... agree --- too many variables to make a definitive conclusion - just offering a different angle/perspective

GBR
 
Our talent level is way down along with our development. Pelini was essentially the walking dead his last couple of years thanks to Eichorst and Perlman and how it was handled. Riley and his recruiting was more smoke and mirrors than substance. Hopefully I am wrong about the latter and it was just lack of coaching but I believe Frost is taking over almost from scratch
 
One need only look at our record over the last fews years and the number of players drafted and where they were drafted. Where is the mystery? Our talent sucks at many levels to an astounishing degree covered up here and there by some high profile players. Does it matter whether or not we recruited great players when our players are deciding between Mc Donald’s and Popeyes and lift about as much as HS running backs?

Just watch our games last year, even first couple, watch our players get blown up time and time again.
 
It's easy as pie to slam Frank for winning only due to TO's recruits. People like you used to slam TO for not winning the big games. It took 22 years for TO to win the big games even with Devaney's recruits.....yeah, he sucked too.

And yeah, Devaney had a couple 6-4 seasons.....he sucked too.

Because it's the truth....
 
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So UCF had 3 guys taken in the first 2 days. I know the NFL will find talent no matter where it is, but I sure hope it was from Scitt and staff developing that talent and that bodes well for our future.
 
TO won plenty of big games before he made his run. He just couldn’t win the NC. I thought we were talking player development/recruiting.

Frank Solich developed some of the best players this program has ever had...... as a RB coach.

As a head coach he is what he is : Average

If he was some great coach another major conference team would have offered him a job.

He has the 4th best winning pct in School history. At least you can’t take that away from him.:)
 
What I have a hard time reconciling with regards to Solich is that if he was a high end power 5 conference coach and essentially got a raw deal at Nebraska -he essentially took over what Alabama is today - he should be killing it in the MAC. He has been at Ohio for over a decade and hasn’t won the conference.

If you look at things in reverse very few high end power 5 programs would entertain hiring a MAC coach with Solich’s resume at Ohio.

His resume at Ohio is a bit above average competing against MAC level head coaches.

There were a few other off the field things that didn’t help to provide him the benefit of the doubt as well
The thing is when TO retired he wanted his culture to stay in place. So he went over Byrne's head and named Frank his successor(TO promised Frank the job 4 or 5 years before when FS got a HC job offer). Byrne knew the kind of opportunity he had, he could have hired any coach in the entire country he allegedly had Mack Brown lined up ready to come in. Hindsight is 20/20 and we'd have been much better had TO let Frank go and chart his own path and prove he could do the job first (or just hire Mack Brown). Kind of like what happened with how Scott has proven himself as a head coach.
 
TO won plenty of big games before he made his run. He just couldn’t win the NC. I thought we were talking player development/recruiting.

Frank Solich developed some of the best players this program has ever had...... as a RB coach.

As a head coach he is what he is : Average

If he was some great coach another major conference team would have offered him a job.

Solich and Terry Bowden, IMO, have paralell careers in this respect.
 
Food for thought; Texas had a top ten recruiting class under Mack Brown every year. In his last season not one Texas player was drafted. First time ever to Texas. To the NFL, It’s not just the base talent but how that talent is developed.
 
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Don't try to compare UT to us. Riley sucked at everything besides being smiley and nice.

Frost is the future and he is already getting this turned around.
 
This draft is a reflection of the 2014 (Pelini) and 2015 (Pelini/Riley transition) classes and the inability of Riley's staff to develop those players. It was really substandard on both fronts and reveals how far we've slipped as a program in terms of results and reputation.

It says a lot that Frost was able to land nine 4* players in one transitional class (they recruited seven of those personally while keeping Wildeman and Jurgens in the fold).

For comparison, the 2014 and 2015 classes combined for 10 4* players. That included Monte Harrison, who was never coming here (Bubba 2.0; Bo didn't learn), and Jordan Stevenson, a Hail Mary recruit that committed right before fall camp only to quit three months later.

Stars aren't everything and Frost will certainly have some busts/attrition as well, but it still speaks volumes that he was able to lap those classes so easily in just a few months on the job. Give those players 3-4 years of elite development and you'll likely see a much different result when the 2021 and 2022 Drafts roll around.
 
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This draft is a reflection of the 2014 (Pelini) and 2015 (Pelini/Riley transition) classes and in the inability of Riley's staff to develop those players. It was really substandard on both fronts and reveals how far we've slipped as a program in terms of results and reputation.

It says a lot that Frost was able to land nine 4* players in one transitional class (they recruited seven of those personally while keeping Wildeman and Jurgens in the fold).

For comparison, the 2014 and 2015 classes combined for 10 4* players. That included Monte Harrison, who was never coming here (Bubba 2.0; Bo didn't learn), and Jordan Stevenson, a Hail Mary recruit that committed right before fall camp only to quit three months later.

Stars aren't everything and Frost will certainly have some busts/attrition as well, but it still speaks volumes that he was able to lap those classes so easily in just a few months on the job. Give those players 3-4 years of elite development and you'll likely see a much different result when the 2021 and 2022 Drafts roll around.

Look at what he did in just two years at UCF when taking over an 0-12 program and now having 4 players drafted after just two seasons with that roster.

Frost will be getting us to a handful of players drafted every year.
 
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