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Illinois week notes Micah now #2

If you see it all of the time, could please provide an example. Granted I don't follow HS sports very close, but I dont know many 8 man schools going UP a class.

Almost every skill you listed is different at 8 man. For example: coverage is almost exclusively man to man in 8 man. This makes all quarterbacking and passing different. Ie if you have a better athlete, they can get open.

Tackling, in 8 man if you break 2 tackles is an explosive play. In 11 man it's a first down. Blocking: it's way easier to wash 3 guys and bounce outside, vs getting outside in 11 man.

This is such an empty argument. "Yeah they all block and tackle and put their pads on just like us"...its significantly different. I'd like to see your examples.
I think most lower classes of high school football don't have the type of athletes to delve in to the complexity of x's and o's as maybe class A Nebraska football. Whether or not the big school players actually understand why they do what they do is another question. There's no way an 8 man player knows 11 man defenses when he gets to a college campus. Way more moving parts.
 
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I just assumed someone misspoke and meant Donovan. Fighting the star qbs dad would probably be a ticket out of here.
Meh. He's got to figure it out or he'll cost himself hundreds of thousands of dollars. He's a one and done and this is a great chance for him to showcase his talents.
 
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I think most lower classes of high school football don't have the type of athletes to delve in to the complexity of x's and o's as maybe class A Nebraska football. Whether or not the big school players actually understand why they do what they do is another question. There's no way an 8 man player knows 11 man defenses when he gets to a college campus. Way more moving parts.
Which is exactly my point to this guy. Little things like position specific coaching, years of catching passes, running routes, and even being properly fitted for shoulder pads that allow you mobility to catch.....these are all of the little things, that add up to big things, which is why it makes no sense to rush Nelson into a starting role that he's not prepared for.

The other poster argues that it's all football and the same game.
 
Which is exactly my point to this guy. Little things like position specific coaching, years of catching passes, running routes, and even being properly fitted for shoulder pads that allow you mobility to catch.....these are all of the little things, that add up to big things, which is why it makes no sense to rush Nelson into a starting role that he's not prepared for.

The other poster argues that it's all football and the same game.
No one is rushing him. He will continue to play more as the season goes on. There is a reason he was a focal point of that first drive. They could have had Bonner in. But they didn't.

Red zone lineup of Fidone, Dowdell, Nelson, Neyor, Banks. Yes, please.
 
No one is rushing him. He will continue to play more as the season goes on. There is a reason he was a focal point of that first drive. They could have had Bonner in. But they didn't.

Red zone lineup of Fidone, Dowdell, Nelson, Neyor, Banks. Yes, please.
I'm not pushing for Bonner as much as I'm pumping the brakes on the poster who thinks Nelson should be a full time starter and there is no adjustment from 8 man western ne ball, to the BIG.

I like where is role is now....I dont think it will expand a ton. I think this year is probably going to be a package of 10 ish plays per game for him.
 
I'm not pushing for Bonner as much as I'm pumping the brakes on the poster who thinks Nelson should be a full time starter and there is no adjustment from 8 man western ne ball, to the BIG.

I like where is role is now....I dont think it will expand a ton. I think this year is probably going to be a package of 10 ish plays per game for him.
Respectfully disagree. I see him getting more into this role. He was out there quite a bit Saturday. We still haven't hit a bye yet and we have 2 byes, plus the extra day for Purdue.
 
Respectfully disagree. I see him getting more into this role. He was out there quite a bit Saturday. We still haven't hit a bye yet and we have 2 byes, plus the extra day for Purdue.
I hope you're right....I just think his playing time vs UTEP and UNI was a lot different than his playing time vs Rado....I think that will probably be the case against in conference play.

I mean how many offensive snaps did he really play? PFF had 8 total snaps, which im guessing half of those were his ST duties....So 4-5 plays and half of those were designed pass plays just for him vs just the regular offense. I just dont see a guy with 4-5 designed plays per game, suddenly mastering the entire playbook and playing 30 snaps per game.
 
I'm not pushing for Bonner as much as I'm pumping the brakes on the poster who thinks Nelson should be a full time starter and there is no adjustment from 8 man western ne ball, to the BIG.

I like where is role is now....I dont think it will expand a ton. I think this year is probably going to be a package of 10 ish plays per game for him.
Not dogging Bonner here, but give me the choice between he and Nelson, and I'll take Nelson all day long. We've likely seen what Bonner has to offer, the potential upside for Nelson dwarfs Bonner.
 
Respectfully disagree. I see him getting more into this role. He was out there quite a bit Saturday. We still haven't hit a bye yet and we have 2 byes, plus the extra day for Purdue.
Nelson has the physcal tools as well as the matchup advantage to be a main cog in the offense when he is in there. If he and DR ever get clicking, watch out.
 
No one is rushing him. He will continue to play more as the season goes on. There is a reason he was a focal point of that first drive. They could have had Bonner in. But they didn't.

Red zone lineup of Fidone, Dowdell, Nelson, Neyor, Banks. Yes, please.
You gotta keep guys with his kind of talent involved and I do think he'll have a larger role as time goes on. There's no need to put pressure on him just yet. I like that they're working him in and getting him reps and targets. I like the way they're managing their roster and the comfortable wins are going to pay off with experienced guys for next year after we lose most of our O and D line starters.
 
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Not dogging Bonner here, but give me the choice between he and Nelson, and I'll take Nelson all day long. We've likely seen what Bonner has to offer, the potential upside for Nelson dwarfs Bonner.
I think in theory Bonner is supposed to be a better run blocker.
 
I think most lower classes of high school football don't have the type of athletes to delve in to the complexity of x's and o's as maybe class A Nebraska football. Whether or not the big school players actually understand why they do what they do is another question. There's no way an 8 man player knows 11 man defenses when he gets to a college campus. Way more moving parts.
It takes years for skill position players to get any good at reading defenses and adjusting routes based on what the defense is doing. Most average players come and go and never really develop this skill. What 8 man ball does teach you is to find and get to open space. There's more opportunities to get the ball and make plays. I'd say developing those skills are way more important for a young playmaker to contribute right away than to be able to read a defense perfectly.
 
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This team is plagued with a few guys who, in theory, are better blockers, but it hasn't held true yet.

Overall, our receiving corp has not been a good blocking unit so far.
I don't know why we haven't gotten Bonner the ball more

he has a nose for yards

had a TD run last year that I thought should've earned him more looks

he's an intriguing player
 
I don't know why we haven't gotten Bonner the ball more

he has a nose for yards

had a TD run last year that I thought should've earned him more looks

he's an intriguing player
Like I said I'm not dogging Bonner, but we have some good sized kids out there and they need to be lighting some people up when their assignment is to block somebody.
 
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sean penn teacher GIF

I heard MM pulled a knife on Mr. Hand.
 
Which is exactly my point to this guy. Little things like position specific coaching, years of catching passes, running routes, and even being properly fitted for shoulder pads that allow you mobility to catch.....these are all of the little things, that add up to big things, which is why it makes no sense to rush Nelson into a starting role that he's not prepared for.

The other poster argues that it's all football and the same game.
No. What I'm saying is that if Carter Nelson played 11-man football, it would change nothing to where he's at now. He's not "behind" because he didn't play 11-man ball. He's "behind" because he didn't play Class A ball where he would have had to focus on one (maybe two) sports and had much better coaching.

Another way to look at it. The difference between class D1 (8-man) vs C2 (11-man) is hardly noticeable compared to C1 (11-man) vs Class A (still 11-man).
 
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no adjustment from 8 man western ne ball, to the BIG.
Okay.

1) I never said there was "no adjustment".

2) This is the first time you're bringing up "western ne ball vs BIG". Which if you had said that from the beginning, I would agree with you.

But you didn't and instead said, "you can't just make up years of never playing 11 man football" and that there's a "huge difference between 8-man and 11-man ball".
 
Okay.

1) I never said there was "no adjustment".

2) This is the first time you're bringing up "western ne ball vs BIG". Which if you had said that from the beginning, I would agree with you.

But you didn't and instead said, "you can't just make up years of never playing 11 man football" and that there's a "huge difference between 8-man and 11-man ball".
And you said there were "tons of examples of successful 8 man programs moving up to 11 man and seeing no drop off", because "it's the same game and it's all just blocking, tackling, catching and throwing."

So I guess I don't get how you say that, and provide no examples btw, and I am supposed to interpret that as comparing 8 man to the BIG?

We would agree that D1 to BIG, or C2 to BIG, would result in the same, overwhelming, complexity and skill jump.....but you didn't say that. You never specified class or jumps to college. Just 8 man to 11 man.

So I agree with you, that it's still a massive skill jump and it's overwhelming whether D1 or C2. Wouldn't matter.

I dont agree with you that 8 man and 11 man are the same game and that it doesn't make a difference whether he played 8 or 11....Those games are so different, I would argue that it still matter when you're not used to their being 2 more OL on the field, true TEs on the field, even basic things like seeing zone vs man defenses(not saying reading a specific coverage, but even just game planning for a true zone), etc. An athlete like him, would probably still play multiple positions at a lot of levels of 11 man ball, but he'd also probably have got to spend a lot more time at a specific position.
 
And you said there were "tons of examples of successful 8 man programs moving up to 11 man and seeing no drop off", because "it's the same game and it's all just blocking, tackling, catching and throwing."

So I guess I don't get how you say that, and provide no examples btw, and I am supposed to interpret that as comparing 8 man to the BIG?

We would agree that D1 to BIG, or C2 to BIG, would result in the same, overwhelming, complexity and skill jump.....but you didn't say that. You never specified class or jumps to college. Just 8 man to 11 man.

So I agree with you, that it's still a massive skill jump and it's overwhelming whether D1 or C2. Wouldn't matter.

I dont agree with you that 8 man and 11 man are the same game and that it doesn't make a difference whether he played 8 or 11....Those games are so different, I would argue that it still matter when you're not used to their being 2 more OL on the field, true TEs on the field, even basic things like seeing zone vs man defenses(not saying reading a specific coverage, but even just game planning for a true zone), etc. An athlete like him, would probably still play multiple positions at a lot of levels of 11 man ball, but he'd also probably have got to spend a lot more time at a specific position.
It's funny that you put quotations around something I didn't say. I never said, "tons of examples", but just from the top of my head; Howells, Lawrence-Nelson, Amherst, Elm Creek, Cross County. What I did say was "you see it all the time" and maybe I should have clarified that when schools do move from 8-man up to 11-man, is when you "see it all the time" (that school continues to be successful).

I never compared 8-man to the BIG originally. I didn't say the complexity of D1 to BIG or C2 to BIG because that wasn't what you were originally stating. You were originally implying and kept doubling down that 8-man is so much different than 11-man and that's why Carter Nelson was slower to adjust to the game now.

In your last paragraph, now we're back to the original argument. They are not so different. I've played both and the concepts are still the same. You learn your new defensive position and do your job in what you were coached. Same on offense, I played on the line so as 1 of the 2 new OL, you were coached on who to block depending on the play. Stop making it sound tougher than what it really is OR that Carter Nelson "can't just make up years of not playing 11-man ball".
 
It's funny that you put quotations around something I didn't say. I never said, "tons of examples", but just from the top of my head; Howells, Lawrence-Nelson, Amherst, Elm Creek, Cross County. What I did say was "you see it all the time" and maybe I should have clarified that when schools do move from 8-man up to 11-man, is when you "see it all the time" (that school continues to be successful).

I never compared 8-man to the BIG originally. I didn't say the complexity of D1 to BIG or C2 to BIG because that wasn't what you were originally stating. You were originally implying and kept doubling down that 8-man is so much different than 11-man and that's why Carter Nelson was slower to adjust to the game now.

In your last paragraph, now we're back to the original argument. They are not so different. I've played both and the concepts are still the same. You learn your new defensive position and do your job in what you were coached. Same on offense, I played on the line so as 1 of the 2 new OL, you were coached on who to block depending on the play. Stop making it sound tougher than what it really is OR that Carter Nelson "can't just make up years of not playing 11-man ball".
Verbatim you said "it happens all the time/tons of examples" is that better?

Howells was the only school I knew of and that was well over a decade ago...I can't speak to the others, but if it's so common, you'd think it happens more than 4x in the last 15 years.

8 man IS that much different than 11 man AND that in addition to the transition from D1 ball to the BIG, collectively add up to a lot of little reasons why Carter is probably not ready to be the fully time starter.

I stand by what I said, and reached out to some of the kids I coached who played both, and they are completely different....and I stand by that he cannot make up a dozen or so years of playing 11 man WR/TE, in one fall camp.
 
Verbatim you said "it happens all the time/tons of examples" is that better?

Howells was the only school I knew of and that was well over a decade ago...I can't speak to the others, but if it's so common, you'd think it happens more than 4x in the last 15 years.

8 man IS that much different than 11 man AND that in addition to the transition from D1 ball to the BIG, collectively add up to a lot of little reasons why Carter is probably not ready to be the fully time starter.

I stand by what I said, and reached out to some of the kids I coached who played both, and they are completely different....and I stand by that he cannot make up a dozen or so years of playing 11 man WR/TE, in one fall camp.
Hahaha. You say verbatim and still quoted me incorrectly.

How many schools play up from 8-man to 11-man in Nebraska? Not many so you're not going to get a large number like you want. That's why I clarified by saying, when schools do move from 8-man up to 11-man, is when you "see it all the time" with that school continuing to be successful.

Sorry, but then those kids you reached out to were terrible players if they thought the game was much different that it was difficult to adjust to.

A dozen years? When do you think kids need to start playing 11-man ball so they don't get behind?

We'll have to agree to disagree. Playing 8-man ball has had zero hindrance on Carter. He could’ve played 11-man football in Valentine, NE and he'd be in the exact same situation he is in terms of his development at Nebraska now.
 
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Verbatim you said "it happens all the time/tons of examples" is that better?

Howells was the only school I knew of and that was well over a decade ago...I can't speak to the others, but if it's so common, you'd think it happens more than 4x in the last 15 years.

8 man IS that much different than 11 man AND that in addition to the transition from D1 ball to the BIG, collectively add up to a lot of little reasons why Carter is probably not ready to be the fully time starter.

I stand by what I said, and reached out to some of the kids I coached who played both, and they are completely different....and I stand by that he cannot make up a dozen or so years of playing 11 man WR/TE, in one fall camp.
My thought in posting that most lower class athletes really don't have a great understanding of what they're going to run into at a P5 school is that it may not matter that much whether it was 8 or 11 man. It's all going to be extremely different for them. The little I've watched of 8 man football I was impressed by how different it was. By all accounts Nelson is a very bright guy so I suspect he'll pick things up quickly but it has to be a huge jump. He looked great in the Polynesian Bowl but we run a pretty complex offense.
 
No. What I'm saying is that if Carter Nelson played 11-man football, it would change nothing to where he's at now. He not "behind" because he didn't play 11-man ball. He's "behind" because he didn't play Class A ball where he would have had to focus on one (maybe two) sports and had much better coaching.

Another way to look at it. The difference between class D1 (8-man) vs C2 (11-man) is hardly noticeable compared to C1 (11-man) vs Class A (still 11-man).
Better coaching, I mean, maybe.

I have been on more than a few staffs and most of the guys on the staffs have little playing experience past HS ball and no coaching experience besides what we as a staff do. They make up their own drills or take them from YouTube.

The biggest difference is really staff members that actually no how to look at film and staff members that know how to game plan.
 
Hahaha. You say verbatim and still quoted me incorrectly.

How many schools play up from 8-man to 11-man in Nebraska? Not many so you're not going to get a large number like you want. That's why I clarified by saying, when schools do move from 8-man up to 11-man, is when you "see it all the time" with that school continuing to be successful.

Sorry, but then those kids you reached out to were terrible players if they thought the game was much different that it was difficult to adjust to.

A dozen years? When do you think kids need to start playing 11-man ball so they don't get behind?

We'll have to agree to disagree. Playing 8-man ball has had zero hindrance on Carter. He could’ve played 11-man football in Valentine, NE and he'd be in the exact same situation he is in terms of his development at Nebraska now.
Yes, verbatim means I can just quote what you mean. Not the word salad that you re-clarify every post...

Right...you've made your point about as clear as mud. And you've provided like 4 examples, over the last couple decades, where schools have consolidated, and moved up to 11 man and continued to win games.

Well these kids played on state championship basketball teams, won medals in track, and made the quarter finals in football 3 years...and come from families full of college players. I guess if you want to be subjective, then we could argue if they are "terrible players" but I trust them more than you. And I trust myself more than you. And 8 man football isn't real football. It's a completely different game than 11 man. And it only adds to the adjustment of playing at NU as a freshman.

Most kids that are making instant impacts in P4 ball are working with personal training staff by middle school. I'm not saying that's necessary, but playing a dozen years of developmental football in 8 man western Nebraska stacks the deck against you more than 11 man in a die hard Texas metro.

I guess we will just agree to disagree dude.
 
Yes, verbatim means I can just quote what you mean. Not the word salad that you re-clarify every post...

Right...you've made your point about as clear as mud. And you've provided like 4 examples, over the last couple decades, where schools have consolidated, and moved up to 11 man and continued to win games.

Well these kids played on state championship basketball teams, won medals in track, and made the quarter finals in football 3 years...and come from families full of college players. I guess if you want to be subjective, then we could argue if they are "terrible players" but I trust them more than you. And I trust myself more than you. And 8 man football isn't real football. It's a completely different game than 11 man. And it only adds to the adjustment of playing at NU as a freshman.

Most kids that are making instant impacts in P4 ball are working with personal training staff by middle school. I'm not saying that's necessary, but playing a dozen years of developmental football in 8 man western Nebraska stacks the deck against you more than 11 man in a die hard Texas metro.

I guess we will just agree to disagree dude.
This is probably pretty accurate.

I have never coached 6 or 8 man FB but I have seen it and I know some coaches that coach it, you are basically just begging every boy in the school to come out for the team. You can only do so much at practice because most of the time you don't have enough players to really scrimmage, so you do a lot of half-line stuff.

Plus, for the most part, you are not having a depth chart, so it is not like there is the "second string center" there is just, the 9th best player.

So your center might get dinged up and more than likely, a dude that is currently on the field is just moving over to center and the 9th best kid is coming off the tiny little wooden bench to take the spot he vacated.

I did coach C-1 and C-2 for a few years and let me tell you, it was very basic. There is nothing wrong with that, we won a lot of games being basic. But our "skill" guys were not getting some amazing coaching or technique work.
 
Yes, verbatim means I can just quote what you mean. Not the word salad that you re-clarify every post...

Right...you've made your point about as clear as mud. And you've provided like 4 examples, over the last couple decades, where schools have consolidated, and moved up to 11 man and continued to win games.

Well these kids played on state championship basketball teams, won medals in track, and made the quarter finals in football 3 years...and come from families full of college players. I guess if you want to be subjective, then we could argue if they are "terrible players" but I trust them more than you. And I trust myself more than you. And 8 man football isn't real football. It's a completely different game than 11 man. And it only adds to the adjustment of playing at NU as a freshman.

Most kids that are making instant impacts in P4 ball are working with personal training staff by middle school. I'm not saying that's necessary, but playing a dozen years of developmental football in 8 man western Nebraska stacks the deck against you more than 11 man in a die hard Texas metro.

I guess we will just agree to disagree dude.
I get what you are saying, but doesn't the fact that Nelson has ascended to the #2 spot after only arriving in summer point to it not being as hard as you say.? This is the deepest wr room I can remember and he keeps rising. They don't have to do that. Could have redshirted him. You seem to think he's going to hit a wall in his playing time this year. Based on what I've seen, I disagree. I don't think Rhule would keep moving him up the depth chart if he is only comfortable with 5 plays.
 
I get what you are saying, but doesn't the fact that Nelson has ascended to the #2 spot after only arriving in summer point to it not being as hard as you say.? This is the deepest wr room I can remember and he keeps rising. They don't have to do that. Could have redshirted him. You seem to think he's going to hit a wall in his playing time this year. Based on what I've seen, I disagree. I don't think Rhule would keep moving him up the depth chart if he is only comfortable with 5 plays.
Time will tell. I hope I'm wrong and he's an honorable mention guy by the end of the year.....I just think if he's only capable of a few plays per game against UNI and UTEP, then it's probably not going to drastically change in conference play where there is less developmental time and more opponent specific.

My opinion is that they knew he wasn't going to redshirt because of his special teams duties(and ability too. Not discrediting that), so they are making a specific effort to have packages for him against our weaker opponents. Hence he was targeted on basically every play that wasn't STs. I think they are doing it while they can, and when those opponents or those blowout opportunities dry up, so will special plays for him and Harberg.

Doesn't mean he hasn't impressed me. I just think there is a reason he's only getting X snaps, against X opponent, that all target him, and then zero against Colorado.
 
Time will tell. I hope I'm wrong and he's an honorable mention guy by the end of the year.....I just think if he's only capable of a few plays per game against UNI and UTEP, then it's probably not going to drastically change in conference play where there is less developmental time and more opponent specific.

My opinion is that they knew he wasn't going to redshirt because of his special teams duties(and ability too. Not discrediting that), so they are making a specific effort to have packages for him against our weaker opponents. Hence he was targeted on basically every play that wasn't STs. I think they are doing it while they can, and when those opponents or those blowout opportunities dry up, so will special plays for him and Harberg.

Doesn't mean he hasn't impressed me. I just think there is a reason he's only getting X snaps, against X opponent, that all target him, and then zero against Colorado.
But if you plan to play a player less as the season goes on, why move him from #3 to #2 on the depth chart? They could have listed him as "or". They could have left him at #3 and gave him 2 passes a game. He's theoretically 1 injury away from starting, the depth chart is to be believed. He's not a threat to leave, so no need to try to play to his ego by moving him up.

He's the only skill position player that is playing real snaps and wasn't here for at least spring ball, and he is moving up. I see more snaps in his future. And just to he clear, I'm not claiming he will win any awards this year. Just saying I think he will continue to get more snaps and opportunities to make plays.
 
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