If any Iowa fans give you crap about Frost....

[jlb321]

Barry Alvarez might be the coach closest in comparison to Frost in the sense that both coaches inherited programs that needed a total rebuild. I believe most Wisconsin fans would consider Alvarez a successful coach there. He brought the program back to national prominence, 3 conference titles, 8-3 bowl record including 3 Rose bowl victories. And yet he averaged just 7.3 wins per season while coaching at Wisconsin.

these narratives painting the situation Frost inherited to be similar to Alvarez, etc are ridiculous. The programs Frost and Alvarez inherited are in no way similar.

Alvarez took over a program that had won 6 games in the prior 3 years. Had been to 4 bowl games since 1960 and had 21 losing seasons the prior 25 years. Their last 9 win season had occurred in 1901.

Frost took over a program that had won 19 games the prior 3 years. 51 bowl games and 5 national titles since 1960. 4 losing seasons in the last 25 years.

Alvarez went to the Rose Bowl in year 4.

By year 4 the vast majority of the players in the program will be Frosts including a 21st and 15th ranked recruiting class who will be upper classmen.

As posted above, in years 4, 5 and 6 Ferentz finished ranked in the top 10 each of those years.

 

[leodisflowers]

How chubby?

Iowa Chubby, so pretty cubby

 

[Nebraska_Reality]

I feel like this conversation is leaning towards number of wins for some reason, and I most definitely could be wrong on that, but if so, that does not concern me.

Joe Paterno had a ton of wins, now vacant, which could be recognized as having been accumulated due to being in the game since the inception of the facemask on helmets. It's not a surprise to rack up a high number of wins over such a long period.

I am more interested in win pct. personally.

winning percentage can be misleading as well

i would much rather have cycles of 7-7-12-7-7-12 win seasons than 9-9-10-9-9-10 win seasons.

In scenario 1 you are nationally relevant every third year with 67% win percentage
In scenario 2 you are never nationally relevant but have a 72% win percentage

I'd agree...lots of factors to look at.

People aren't going to like what I'm about to say......

Bill McCartney and Bill Snyder have winning percentages in the .600s. However, the situations they walked into at their schools was far worse than what any Husker coach has walked into since Osborne left, including what Frost walked into. Riley still had teams good enough to pull an upset or two; Colorado and K-State generally weren't competitive at all in the immediate years prior to the hiring of those two.

As great as Osborne was, he was handed the keys to a slightly used Corvette when hired. Snyder was given the keys to a broken down Edsel with 4 flat tires, no spares, and no tire jack.

 

[hexumhawk]

Kirk has had five 10-win seasons in his first 20 years at UI. Three of those were in his first five seasons. He's had two 10-win seasons in the past 15. It has created a tough situation for fans, where they're happy he's generally successful, but they wonder why he can't replicate 2001-2003 more often. He's also had just two losing seasons in the past 18.

Solid, but unspectacular.

Not sure how I'd feel about that if Frost did the same.

Good post and accurate how most Iowa fans feel. I think other teams caught up to their schemes on both sides of the ball and Iowa didnt evolve or change things as much as they should have. The other issues is their running game has actually been average at best for most of their time in IC.

 

[hexumhawk]

Osborne was 255-49-3 in 25 years which is good for 10.2 wins per year average. Osborne had 50 more wins than Woody and what was Hayes WL record in 25 years? Point is the B1G 10 coaches all suck and sucked

Or the Big 8 sucked minus OU?

 

[Nebraska_Reality]

Or the Big 8 sucked minus OU?

Very good point. The old Big 10, from top to bottom, was better than the Big 8 during much of the Osborne/Switzer years. My memory is that Nebraska and OU were dominant, the 3rd and 4th place teams were usually average to decent, and the bottom 4 were terrible....at least up until the mid 1980s.

Of the Orange Bowls from the 1972 (game on Jan. 1, 1973) through the 1995 seasons (Jan. 1, 1996) (minus the 2 when there was no Big 8 representative), there were only 3 seasons in which the Big 8 representative was someone other than Nebraska or Oklahoma.....and all 3 were the same team (Colorado, in the 1976, 1989, and 1990 seasons).

During that same stretch, Michigan and Ohio State were pretty dominant, but 8 different teams represented the Big 10 in the Rose Bowl.

 

[9and4]

Or the Big 8 sucked minus OU?

No. The 1970s, 1980s, 1990s and even the 2000s in the Big Eight/XII have little to do with the parity and strength of the Big Ten today.

To imply that Nebraska during its four decades of dominance (roughly 1962 through 2001) was simply riding an easy schedule into the post-season — a la UCF in 2017 — is an ill-informed argument.

The chart at this link shows that the Big Eight was a better conference throughout the 1970s than the Big Ten and remained better through the 1980s and into the 1990s. The Big Ten was slightly better than the Big Eight/XII during Nebraska's 60-3 five-year run from 1993-1997. But Nebraska was crushing SEC teams for national championships and in other bowls during that period when the SEC took over as the best conference : 1963 over Auburn, 1969 over Georgia, 1970 over LSU, 1971 over Alabama, 1974 over Florida, 1980 over Mississippi State, 1982 over LSU, 1984 over LSU, 1986 over LSU, 1995 over Florida, 1997 over Tennessee and 1999 over Tennessee. I'm not even including regular-season victories against Auburn and Alabama.

I think any fair analysis would say that Nebraska was a national championship program during that 40-year period, no matter the strength of the Big Eight. From 1965 through 2001, Nebraska played in 10 bowl games where a win would mean a title. We won five of those.

Let's look at the Big Eight/XII during those 10 seasons:

• 1965: The Big Eight was the sixth-best conference (Big Ten was second), Nebraska went 10-0 in the regular season, including a 37-0 victory over Wisconsin. We lost to Alabama 39-28 in the Orange Bowl.
• 1970: The Big Eight was the top-ranked conference (Big Ten was fifth), Nebraska went 10-0-1 in the regular season, including a 35-10 victory over Minnesota. We defeated LSU 17-12 in the Orange Bowl.
• 1971: The Big Eight was the top-ranked conference (Big Ten was fourth), Nebraska went 12-0 in the regular season, including a 35-7 victory over Minnesota. We defeated Alabama 38-6 in the Orange Bowl.
• 1981: The Big Eight was the third-ranked conference (Big Ten was sixth), Nebraska went 9-2 in the regular season, including a 10-7 loss to Iowa. We lost to Clemson 22-15 in the Orange Bowl.
• 1983: The Big Eight was the second-ranked conference (Big Ten was fourth), Nebraska went 12-0 in the regular season, including an 84-13 victory over Minnesota. We lost 31-30 to Miami in the Orange Bowl.
• 1993: The Big Eight was the second-ranked conference (Big Ten was third), Nebraska went 11-0 in the regular season. We lost to Florida State 18-16 in the Orange Bowl.
• 1994: The Big Eight was the fourth-ranked conference (Big Ten was first), Nebraska went 12-0 in the regular season. We defeated Miami 24-17 in the Orange Bowl.
• 1995: The Big Eight was the second-ranked conference (Big Ten was first), Nebraska went 11-0 in the regular season, including a 50-10 victory over Michigan State. We defeated Florida 62-24 in the Fiesta Bowl.
• 1997: The Big XII was the fifth-ranked conference (Big Ten was first), Nebraska went 12-0 in the regular season. We defeated Tennessee 42-17 in the Orange Bowl. This and 1996 is when the Big XII South dragged down a nationally dominant North Division.
• 2001: The Big XII was the second-ranked conference (Big Ten was fifth), Nebraska went 11-1 in the regular season. We lost 37-14 to Miami in the Rose Bowl.

TLDR (Iowa) version: The Big Eight/XII was at least as good as the Big Ten during Nebraska's long run of championship contention.

What are we now? Not very good. But we can still cherish the past without some Hawkeye/Boiler/Buckeye/Wolverine/Badger illegitimately pissing in our Corn Flakes.

We cherish the championships past, live in the dismal present, and hope for a brighter future.

Enjoy your Saturday.

 

[9and4]

Very good point. The old Big 10, from top to bottom, was better than the Big 8 during much of the Osborne/Switzer years. My memory is that Nebraska and OU were dominant, the 3rd and 4th place teams were usually average to decent, and the bottom 4 were terrible....at least up until the mid 1980s.

Of the Orange Bowls from the 1972 (game on Jan. 1, 1973) through the 1995 seasons (Jan. 1, 1996) (minus the 2 when there was no Big 8 representative), there were only 3 seasons in which the Big 8 representative was someone other than Nebraska or Oklahoma.....and all 3 were the same team (Colorado, in the 1976, 1989, and 1990 seasons).

During that same stretch, Michigan and Ohio State were pretty dominant, but 8 different teams represented the Big 10 in the Rose Bowl.

Don't rely on memory. See my previous post and subsequent posts for actual data.

 

[9and4]

Big Ten vs. Big Eight (Post 1 of 3)
Let's look at every year of the Devaney/Osborne/Solich eras (those coaches whose teams played for national championships) to see who had the better conference. (Clearly, there's no need to highlight the Iowa coaches whose teams have played for national titles.)
First, the Devaney Era
Conference rankings from sports-reference.com for college football.
Devaney
1962: 1. Big Ten; 5. Big Eight
1963: 1. Big Ten; 5. Big Eight
1964: 1. Big Ten; 6. Big Eight
1965: 1. Big Ten; 6. Big Eight
1966: 4. Big Ten; 7. Big Eight
1967: 3. Big Eight; 4. Big Ten
1968: 1. Big Eight; 4. Big Ten
1969: 1. Big Eight; 4. Big Ten
1970: 1. Big Eight; 5. Big Ten
1971: 1. Big Eight; 4. Big Ten
1972: 2. Big Eight; 5. Big Ten

• Of the 11 years of Devaney's tenure, the Big Eight was rated better than the Big Ten six times.
• In the the three seasons Nebraska played for a national title, the Big Eight was the better conference twice.
• In both years Nebraska won the national title, the Big Eight was the best conference in the country.

Next up, the Osborne era.

 

[Sinomatic]

winning percentage can be misleading as well

i would much rather have cycles of 7-7-12-7-7-12 win seasons than 9-9-10-9-9-10 win seasons.

In scenario 1 you are nationally relevant every third year with 67% win percentage
In scenario 2 you are never nationally relevant but have a 72% win percentage

Yeah I hear what you're saying. However think about those losses...if they are 27 to 28 or 21 to 14 instead of 52 to 14 or 70 to 28, I think the complexion changes in that scenario.

Perception of upward trajectory in that case, I think would help that coach in my view as opposed to getting shamed on national TV.

 

[9and4]

Big Ten vs. Big Eight (Post 2 of 3)
Let's look at every year of the Devaney/Osborne/Solich eras (those coaches whose teams played for national championships) to see who had the better conference. (Clearly, there's no need to highlight the Iowa coaches whose teams have played for national titles.)
Second, the Osborne Era
Conference rankings from sports-reference.com for college football.
Osborne
1973: 1. Big Eight; 3. Big Ten
1974: 2. Big Eight; 4. Big Ten
1975: 1. Big Eight; 5. Big Ten
1976: 1. Big Eight; 3. Big Ten
1977: 3. Big Eight; 5. Big Ten
1978: 3. Big Eight; 5. Big Ten
1979: 4. Big Ten; 5. Big Eight
1980: 2. Big Eight; 6. Big Ten
1981: 3. Big Eight; 6. Big Ten (Iowa wins conference title)
1982: 4. Big Ten; 5. Big Eight
1983: 2. Big Eight; 4. Big Ten
1984: 5. Big Eight; 6. Big Ten
1985: 2. Big Ten; 6. Big Eight
1986: 3. Big Ten; 4. Big Eight
1987: 3. Big Ten; 4. Big Eight
1988: 5. Big Ten; 6. Big Eight
1989: 5. Big Ten; 6. Big Eight
1990: 2. Big Eight; 3. Big Ten
1991: 4. Big Eight; 5. Big Ten
1992: 4. Big Eight; 5. Big Ten
1993: 2. Big Eight; 3. Big Ten
1994: 1. Big Ten; 4. Big Eight
1995: 1. Big Ten; 2. Big Eight
1996: 1. Big Ten; 4. Big XII (South Division drags down North)
1997: 1. Big Ten; 5. Big XII (See 1996)

• In all, Osborne coached for 25 years, and was a national title contender in every year until at least November.
• Osborne's teams entered New Year's Day with a chance to win a national title six times and won three. In those years (1981, 1983, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1997), Nebraska's conference was ranked ahead of the Big Ten three times, but the three Osborne titles came in years when the Big Ten was ranked higher.
• During Osborne's, Nebraska's conference was ranked higher than the Big Ten 14 of those years. Pretty even.
• The Big Ten's 1994 ranking as the top conference was its first top ranking since 1965.

 

[9and4]

Big Ten vs. Big Eight (Post 3 of 3)
Let's look at every year of the Devaney/Osborne/Solich eras (those coaches whose teams played for national championships) to see who had the better conference. (Clearly, there's no need to highlight the Iowa coaches whose teams have played for national titles.)
Finally, the Solich Era
Conference rankings from sports-reference.com for college football.
Solich
1998: 1. Big XII; 2. Big Ten
1999: 1. Big Ten; 4. Big XII
2000: 3. Big XII; 5. Big Ten (North Division runner-up Nebraska beats Big Ten co-champion Northwestern 66-17 in the Alamo Bowl)
2001: 2. Big XII; 5. Big Ten
2002: 3. Big XII; 4. Big Ten
2003: 3. Big Ten; 4. Big XII

• Of Solich's six years at Nebraska, he navigated the Huskers through a better conference than the Big Ten four times.
• If you're counting, that's a total of 42 years with Devaney/Osborne/Solich.
  • In 24 of those years, Nebraska played in a tougher conference than the Big Ten.
  • In 18 of those years, Nebraska played in a weaker conference than the Big Ten.
    • Five of those years were 1962-66, so the Big Eight/XII had a nearly two-to-one advantage between 1967-2003.
  • In those 42 years, the Big Ten was ranked the best conference nine times.
  • In those 42 years, the Big Eight/XII was ranked the best conference eight times.
  • The Big Ten's average ranking in those years was 3.50.
  • The Big XII's average ranking in those years was 3.34.

 

[Nebraska_Reality]

Don't rely on memory. See my previous post and subsequent posts for actual data.

The post to which I replied, as well as that person's reply previous, was to a poster that stated that Big 10 coaches suck and have always sucked. That's all I was addressing.

I appreciate your info, but I'd be curious to know what data was used to determine conference rankings. For example, bowl records wouldn't be a good gauge, because prior to 1975, the Rose Bowl representative was the only team that went to a bowl.

 

[9and4]

The post to which I replied, as well as that person's reply previous, was to a poster that stated that Big 10 coaches suck and have always sucked. That's all I was addressing.

I appreciate your info, but I'd be curious to know what data was used to determine conference rankings. For example, bowl records wouldn't be a good gauge, because prior to 1975, the Rose Bowl representative was the only team that went to a bowl.

Great question.

On the Sports-Reference/cfb site, it uses something called the SRS, or Simple Rating System. Here's the definition: "A rating that takes into account average point differential and strength of schedule. The rating is denominated in points above/below average, where zero is average."

My only point is not that one conference is or was consistently better than another. Clearly that's a difficult proposition to prove or disprove.

I'm just addressing this new (to me, at least) talking point here in Iowa that somehow had Nebraska played in the Big Ten during its championship years that it wouldn't have done nearly as well or won as many titles as it did.

These data put the lie to that specious argument, though it is interesting that in those two seasons when Nebraska and a Big Ten team competed off the field for a title (1994 and 1997) that the Big Ten was a higher-rated conference.

 

[Bill_Callahan2.0]

I really hope Frost can just deliver one top 10 season in the next 20 years. That would be a step in the right direction for us

 

[Huskred01]

I really hope Frost can just deliver one top 10 season in the next 20 years. That would be a step in the right direction for us

He’s got a long way to go. I’ll be happy if Frost can just beat Indiana.

God that’s sad to type!

 

[Nebraska_Reality]

Great question.

On the Sports-Reference/cfb site, it uses something called the SRS, or Simple Rating System. Here's the definition: "A rating that takes into account average point differential and strength of schedule. The rating is denominated in points above/below average, where zero is average."

My only point is not that one conference is or was consistently better than another. Clearly that's a difficult proposition to prove or disprove.

I'm just addressing this new (to me, at least) talking point here in Iowa that somehow had Nebraska played in the Big Ten during its championship years that it wouldn't have done nearly as well or won as many titles as it did.

These data put the lie to that specious argument, though it is interesting that in those two seasons when Nebraska and a Big Ten team competed off the field for a title (1994 and 1997) that the Big Ten was a higher-rated conference.

Gotcha.....I'll have the check it out sometime....

Thanks for the research and info!

 

[dand84]

Or the Big 8 sucked minus OU?

Let's see, shall we? T.O. coached 25 seasons. In that time he played 98 ranked teams (and lots of those top 5 or top 10) or about 4 per year. 61-36-1. Winning on average about 2.5 ranked games per year and losing 1.5. Those ranked teams average roughly 3 different conferences each year. So he wasn't playing patsies non-conf either. NU averaged playing roughly 2 ranked Big 8 opponents per year. During his tenure, he played B1G teams (and I am including PSU) 27 times. He went 22-5 averaging 1 B1G team per year.

 

[nu2u]

Let's see, shall we? T.O. coached 25 seasons. In that time he played 98 ranked teams (and lots of those top 5 or top 10) or about 4 per year. 61-36-1. Winning on average about 2.5 ranked games per year and losing 1.5. Those ranked teams average roughly 3 different conferences each year. So he wasn't playing patsies non-conf either. NU averaged playing roughly 2 ranked Big 8 opponents per year. During his tenure, he played B1G teams (and I am including PSU) 27 times. He went 22-5 averaging 1 B1G team per year.

That's a pretty strong argument you laid out there. I did not realize that Osborne had that impressive record against ranked teams.

 

[9and4]

That's a pretty strong argument you laid out there. I did not realize that Osborne had that impressive record against ranked teams.

It's just a canard that lives here in Iowa and probably the rest of the Big Ten area: "Now that Nebraska is in the Big Ten, they finally understand what it means to go against tough competition every week." We know it's bullshit, but we need the actual data to convince the Hawks/Wolves/Vadgers/Bucknuts, etc. that we didn't just stumble our way into title games when we were good.

Also, if I'm told to forget about the past one more time, here's my line for that: "I'm 57 years old. All of those national championships are a part of my life, now, because they are an indelible part of my memory that hopefully will stay with me til the day I die. Asking me to not 'live in the past' is asking me to forget about my life. So **** off."

 

[BeautifulDayintheNeighborhood]

Maybe you should ask your father why he raised you to be a woman.

Puberty blockers are bad folks

 

[dand84]

It's just a canard that lives here in Iowa and probably the rest of the Big Ten area...

Haters gonna hate.

 

[MitchLL]

Maybe you should ask your father why he raised you to be a woman.

I'm right about your football program, tho.

 

[MitchLL]

We were 3-1 against Iowa with a coach that is at Youngstown St. right now, so we know that Frost won't take long to get to that point as well. And we also know that our best teams would destroy Iowa's best, so there's that too.

See if you can beg Solich to come back or petition for reentry into the Big 12.

 

[Hoosker Du]

See if you can beg Solich to come back or petition for reentry into the Big 12.

3-1 against Iowa with a coach that's at Youngstown St. BTW, we trucked Iowa with Solich as coach. You probably wouldn't want that.

You need Frost to keep the loser from Iowa, Chinander, on board, because he will always have our defense in a shambles. I still say that he is secretly on your payroll.

 

[DPDWU]

If Frost ends up the equivalent of Ferentz he'll get fired.

And should be

 

[GPRHAWK]

Ferentz was 4-8 and 4-8 in his first two years at Iowa.

Actually he was 1-10 and 3-8 his first two years. Then 7-5 and then 10-2

 

[MitchLL]

3-1 against Iowa with a coach that's at Youngstown St.

That coach at Youngstown State is still laughing at Nebraska, like the rest of the country seems to be.

But hey... you're getting better recruits than the Hawks. Congrats.

 

[Daisy Mae]

Ferentz was 4-8 and 4-8 in his first two years at Iowa.

Fake news - Ferentz was 1-10 his first year at Iowa. Get your facts right