i guess the conference is undervalued?

[king_kong_]

What’s abundantly clear is that there’s more change coming and today’s distribution is fleeting

Will be very awkward for the oddballs who pound their chests about conference payouts as if it even remotely compares to anything that takes place on the field/court, many of whom are prominently featured in this hilarious thread

 

[timnsun]

the point, probably, is not that the b12 is going to get annual revenues like the b10 or sec, but that on a relative basis it is undervalued. so the investment house sees this as an opportunity to invest money, improve conference operations and thus revenues, inflate it's value, and then sell its share for a profit. for example, it could add fsu and/or clemson to the league.

My response was actually to landomatic, who claimed the Allstate 12 was setting themselves up to make so much money that they could lure away 2-3 bluebloods…

I know what your point was, I was questioning landomatic’s musings…

 

[schuele]

uofa, byu, utah, asu, cu are hardly rummage sale items compared to illinois, northwestern, purdue, rutgers, and so on in your league.

My league? I can't stand the Big Ten.

And even if I could, I wouldn't spend endless hours on some other school's message board acting like a gasbagging, slobbering fanboy who's desperate for attention.

 

[king_kong_]

My response was actually to landomatic, who claimed the Allstate 12 was setting themselves up to make so much money that they could lure away 2-3 bluebloods…

I know what your point was, I was questioning landomatic’s musings…

He, of course, claimed no such thing

He posed a scenario clearly predicated on the word “if”

 

[TruHusker]

Two separate things...one is money for naming rights as you described. The other if for a private equity firm buying 20% of the conference. Both are being reported as possibilities for the Big 12 to raise some capital.

How does that work, an equity firm buying 20%? Right now they are neither public nor even privately traded. The investment company would need to return money back to the invest company. It is a loan with expectation of return on equity, not a gift.

If a company goes public they then have to have a board and all that goes with it. It is then “public” and reportable to the stock holders.

If you want to sell off your future for some bucks today, this is the way. BUT ask Clemson and FSU how they feel today about having signed away their media rights for years into the future. Now they're stuck. And remember no outside financial investment is done for charity reasons, they expect to profit big time.

who is giving away media rights? That’s not what this is about.

 

[timnsun]

He, of course, claimed no such thing

He posed a scenario clearly predicated on the word “if”

Thank you for the correction. Please follow along now, as I lay out the sequence of events for you…

1) My original response to lando was asking the question, which blue blood would leave their current arrangement, as he proposed the possible scenario…

2) If you look at his response to that question, he proposed that anyone would, for a billion dollars.

3) I then followed up asking him what the financial proposals were, and expressed doubt that the money the Allstate conference might be able to offer would be better than the B1G or SEC… again, curious about his hypothetical.

4) Finally, veritas took my response to Landon in a different direction, and I told him his response didn’t have much to do with my question to Lando. I used the word “claimed” when I should have used the word proposed. Clearly, I was being devious, so much so that you felt compelled to not take the context of my back and forth discussion with Lando into consideration.

You got me. I will try to be more clear in the future. Wouldn’t want to be called out again for such an egregious error.

So in the meantime, I’ll wait for Lando to share with me his thoughts on what the money MIGHT be that would lure a blue blood away from their current conference arrangement.

 

[Landomatic]

Don't be dramatic. This would equate to a one time payment of $62.5 million for each Big 12 member. I believe the difference in conference payout between NU and say, Kstate, is at least $30 million a year.

You're assuming the $1B is distributed equally. My hypothetical was that the $1B would be used for the luring of the couple blue bloods and TV market schools, which would then, in turn, result in a long term major increase in TV revenue to be distributed equally. You really think an international PE firm is just going to throw $1B at something and tell them, "Here you go, divvy it up amongst yourselves and leave things status quo otherwise," and hope it pays off?

The Big 12 is trying to keep it's head above water and appear to be exploring all options.

No doubt. And they might be onto something.

 

[Landomatic]

My response was actually to landomatic, who claimed the Allstate 12 was setting themselves up to make so much money that they could lure away 2-3 bluebloods…

I know what your point was, I was questioning landomatic’s musings…

You have my musings backward. The investment is to lure the blue bloods and TV market schools which would then set the Allstate 12 up to make so much money, they'd be on par with the other P2 conferences. Doesn't seem that complicated or far-fetched to me.

 

[Husker Todd]

who is giving away media rights? That’s not what this is about.

I’m not going to attach the link, it’s in the very first post if you would like to read it, but I did copy paste the below quote from the article. You should read everything posted if you plan on participating in the discussion.


“The CVC investment would likely require the Big 12 to stay together long term. That might require some sort of assurance for CVC that a new grant of rights would be signed in 2031. The investment would certainly be a significant motivating factor to stay together, but with realignment, anything can always change quickly.”

 

[Husker Todd]

You're assuming the $1B is distributed equally. My hypothetical was that the $1B would be used for the luring of the couple blue bloods and TV market schools, which would then, in turn, result in a long term major increase in TV revenue to be distributed equally. You really think an international PE firm is just going to throw $1B at something and tell them, "Here you go, divvy it up amongst yourselves and leave things status quo otherwise," and hope it pays off?

So if they aren’t just going to let them divvy it up, what happens to the $1 billion if they can’t lure any blue bloods? Which blue bloods do you think might possibly go to the Allstate 12? You’ve obviously given this some thought so tell us who would leave their current situation to join the conference of rainbows and unicorn farts.

 

[timnsun]

You have my musings backward. The investment is to lure the blue bloods and TV market schools which would then set the Allstate 12 up to make so much money, they'd be on par with the other P2 conferences. Doesn't seem that complicated or far-fetched to me.

Thank you for providing clarity. It is a bold plan, and I did not understand your proposal initially. That said, I feel like it would be a big risk for a blue blood to leave an established conference for this conference that is lacking and prestige and stability For some extra money that may not be long lasting. In the P2 conferences, the money will never go away. Maybe it wouldn’t in the Allstate conference either, but it’s a lot riskier in my opinion.

 

[bigboxes]

So if they aren’t just going to let them divvy it up, what happens to the $1 billion if they can’t lure any blue bloods? Which blue bloods do you think might possibly go to the Allstate 12? You’ve obviously given this some thought so tell us who would leave their current situation to join the conference of rainbows and unicorn farts.

He doesn't like the B1G. No blueblood is going to be leaving the B1G or the SEC to move to that toilet of a conference.

 

[Huskers123456]

You're assuming the $1B is distributed equally. My hypothetical was that the $1B would be used for the luring of the couple blue bloods and TV market schools, which would then, in turn, result in a long term major increase in TV revenue to be distributed equally. You really think an international PE firm is just going to throw $1B at something and tell them, "Here you go, divvy it up amongst yourselves and leave things status quo otherwise," and hope it pays off?



No doubt. And they might be onto something.

So what 2 bluebloods are you picking under this hypothetical scenario? I don't see any natural fit. A&M doesn't need money. Obviously not OU/UT. No SEC school is dumb enough to leave. You aren't getting OSU, Michigan, PSU, NU, USC, UO. Same for ND. Why would Clemson choose the Big 12? I suppose you could convince me FSU is available.

 

[AVeritas]

My league? I can't stand the Big Ten.

And even if I could, I wouldn't spend endless hours on some other school's message board acting like a gasbagging, slobbering fanboy who's desperate for attention.

meaning you have nothing thoughtful to add so you go all ad hominem. okay, accepted.

 

[AVeritas]

So if they aren’t just going to let them divvy it up, what happens to the $1 billion if they can’t lure any blue bloods? Which blue bloods do you think might possibly go to the Allstate 12? You’ve obviously given this some thought so tell us who would leave their current situation to join the conference of rainbows and unicorn farts.

fsu and clemson are two clear candidates assuming that's a direction this investment might be taking. it's certainly logical. yormark tends to be ahead of the curve.

 

[schuele]

meaning you have nothing thoughtful to add so you go all ad hominem. okay, accepted.

You poor thing. Are you crying again?

 

[AVeritas]

You poor thing. Are you crying again?

no, just making a factual observation about your depravity of thoughtful content. any 8th grader could have posted what you did in this thread. the question is why? and btw, i'm neither poor nor a thing.

 

[Tuco Salamanca]

SIAP - But the K State and other Big 12 team boards must be really slow. Good gravy man. Good luck with the huge influx of cash for all the Big 12 schools. Thanks for stopping by.

 

[AVeritas]

SIAP - But the K State and other Big 12 team boards must be really slow. Good gravy man. Good luck with the huge influx of cash for all the Big 12 schools. Thanks for stopping by.

actually, this is nothing compared to ku fans' general malaise over coleman hawkins signing at k-state. that's a joy to watch on their phog board. i've not seen such a threatened site since we drove the brits from the boston harbor.

 

[bigboxes]

actually, this is nothing compared to ku fans' general malaise over coleman hawkins signing at k-state. that's a joy to watch on their phog board. i've not seen such a threatened site since we drove the brits from the boston harbor.

No one on this board cares. What is wrong with you?

 

[schuele]

no, just making a factual observation about your depravity of thoughtful content. any 8th grader could have posted what you did in this thread. the question is why? and btw, i'm neither poor nor a thing.

It’s not my fault you are a self-important attention whore who has run out of people in his own community who will sit still for this endless gasbagging.

When did you first notice that everyone suddenly “has to run” the moment you enter a room?

 

[AVeritas]

It’s not my fault you are a self-important attention whore who has run out of people in his own community who will sit still for this endless gasbagging.

When did you first notice that everyone suddenly “has to run” the moment you enter a room?

there's been a lot of intelligent dialogue in this thread. you might want to think about joining in. if not, don't expect me to comment further on your 8th grade level diatribes.

 

[schuele]

there's been a lot of intelligent dialogue in this thread. you might want to think about joining in. if not, don't expect me to comment further on your 8th grade level diatribes.

You’re right about one thing: An 8th grader certainly would know enough to call BS on your ridiculous claim that the Big 12 caused the PAC-12 to collapse. Perhaps even a Kindergartener.

Even you can’t possibly be stupid enough to believe that. It just makes good fodder for argument, followed closely by you entering bawling mode.

 

[northtexashusker]

Big 12 considering private equity investment of up to $1 billion for as much as 20% of conference

The proposed deal with a Luxembourg-based firm would bring a massive influx of cash to the league

www.cbssports.com

Sounds like the Saudi's will have a football conference.

 

[TruHusker]

I’m not going to attach the link, it’s in the very first post if you would like to read it, but I did copy paste the below quote from the article. You should read everything posted if you plan on participating in the discussion.


“The CVC investment would likely require the Big 12 to stay together long term. That might require some sort of assurance for CVC that a new grant of rights would be signed in 2031. The investment would certainly be a significant motivating factor to stay together, but with realignment, anything can always change quickly.”

Todd, there is nothing that states that besides the author using words “likely” and “might”. The writer is postulating that since Allstate gives money to the league to actually name it (which is what I read is the main deal here) then it “could “ bring more value to the league which “could” keep teams together due to the added influx of cash and “could “ make the league more attractive to new schools.

This is not for your comment but why would these schools agree to be sponsored by Allstate only to give the money back to attract new teams? All schools are going to have to pony up with the recent lawsuit settlement and will need all the cash they can get.

So yes, I can read, I have read technical stuff for years and know how to separate the basic facts from the speculation.

 

[Landomatic]

So if they aren’t just going to let them divvy it up, what happens to the $1 billion if they can’t lure any blue bloods? Which blue bloods do you think might possibly go to the Allstate 12? You’ve obviously given this some thought so tell us who would leave their current situation to join the conference of rainbows and unicorn farts.

Thank you for providing clarity. It is a bold plan, and I did not understand your proposal initially. That said, I feel like it would be a big risk for a blue blood to leave an established conference for this conference that is lacking and prestige and stability For some extra money that may not be long lasting. In the P2 conferences, the money will never go away. Maybe it wouldn’t in the Allstate conference either, but it’s a lot riskier in my opinion.

He doesn't like the B1G. No blueblood is going to be leaving the B1G or the SEC to move to that toilet of a conference.

People move to worse situations for more money all the time. Especially in sports.

As mentioned earlier, when a new owner buys a struggling team, their influx of cash immediately goes toward assets that will improve the value of that franchise. Things like star players, new stadium, new coaches, better marketing, new GM, etc. The result, from a longer term investment standpoint, is increased revenue via ticket sales, media deals, sponsorships, merchandise sales, etc. Those improved assets, in this scenario, would have to be better teams and TV markets.

Seems really basic to me. You guys are acting like I'm proposing the new Big 12 is going to move all their games to mars or something.

 

[Landomatic]

So what 2 bluebloods are you picking under this hypothetical scenario? I don't see any natural fit. A&M doesn't need money. Obviously not OU/UT. No SEC school is dumb enough to leave. You aren't getting OSU, Michigan, PSU, NU, USC, UO. Same for ND. Why would Clemson choose the Big 12? I suppose you could convince me FSU is available.

I've admittedly never been part of any $1B Private Equity NCAA Conference whatever deals. But, I'm fairly certain the plan would be to invest short term for the potential long term ROI. So, sure why not, I'll take a crack at it...

First of all, A&M, Penn State, Oregon, Clemson and FSU are NOT blue bloods. So, let's set them aside for a minute.

In its simplest form, let's just say all it would take is adding 2 blue bloods to get Fox/ESPN/Netflix/Amazon/whoever to increase the Big 12's TV deal equal to the SEC or BIG. You've got a half Billion dollar signing bonus each to go find two. Hey, (fill in the blank) blue blood...here's $500 Million and a guaranteed X number of years TV deal equal to what you've got now. Interested?

In that way too overly dumbed down scenario, you tell me which blue blood wouldn't make that move.

It would obviously be much more complex than that, but I just laid that out for illustration purposes. The TV network would require much more than just 2 teams, so insert the fringe blue bloods like the ones you listed above. The Allstate 12 would need to figure out if $1B could get the TV guys what they wanted. And the PE would have to determine if that $1B would result in a decent ROI if all of that happened. Again, I'm oversimplifying for sure.

Maybe I've just watched too much 'Welcome to Wrexham' but it seems like the same general concept to me. Hell, maybe the Allstate 12 will get a reality series documenting the process as part of the deal

 

[Landomatic]

So if they aren’t just going to let them divvy it up, what happens to the $1 billion if they can’t lure any blue bloods? Which blue bloods do you think might possibly go to the Allstate 12? You’ve obviously given this some thought so tell us who would leave their current situation to join the conference of rainbows and unicorn farts.

I really haven't given it much thought at all. I'm just applying basic PE investment common sense to the situation. If they can't chop it up and sell it off for parts, which doesn't seem likely in this situation, I can't see any other scenario that makes even a little bit of sense than something similar to what I laid out.

 

[Landomatic]

Thank you for providing clarity. It is a bold plan, and I did not understand your proposal initially. That said, I feel like it would be a big risk for a blue blood to leave an established conference for this conference that is lacking and prestige and stability For some extra money that may not be long lasting. In the P2 conferences, the money will never go away. Maybe it wouldn’t in the Allstate conference either, but it’s a lot riskier in my opinion.

You can put a lot of conditional guarantees in place to mitigate that risk before a single action is taken or single penny actually changes hands. And the "prestige and stability" thing would take care of itself with the restructure.

Much bigger, more complex deals with more risk happen all the time. We've just never seen it in this arena before. With the way things have been heading in college sports, it's just a matter of time. We talk all the time about how college sports is just becoming like a minor league pro team, all about the money, etc. Well, with that will come investment companies.

 

[Tuco Salamanca]

And in turn, if the Big Ten or SEC saw this as a viable business plan or if they thought that 1 or 2 of their “blue bloods” were looking to leave, they too would find a corporate sponsor to do the same thing as All State and Luxembourg VC are potentially proposing to do.

If All State was looking to make a marketing decision do they want to spend the advertising dollars in Manhattan KS and Stillwater OK or Chicago and Los Angeles?

 

[Landomatic]

And in turn, if the Big Ten or SEC saw this as a viable business plan or if they thought that 1 or 2 of their “blue bloods” were looking to leave, they too would find a corporate sponsor to do the same thing as All State and Luxembourg VC are potentially proposing to do.

If All State was looking to make a marketing decision do they want to spend the advertising dollars in Manhattan KS and Stillwater OK or Chicago and Los Angeles?

Yeah, I'll be shocked if versions of all of the above don't eventually happen. Regardless of how the Big 12 goes. Almost all pro stadiums are now called the "fill in the blank big corporation stadium." It was blasphemy when the first one sold out and did it, but money always wins out in end.

 

[AVeritas]

Sounds like the Saudi's will have a football conference.

i actually thought of your king kong the first time i saw the article. ha. and i believe that today fsu and clemson would be just as valuable or more to the allstate conference as an addition of oregon, washington, ucla, unc, miami, and so on. the term "blue blood" is often context-confusing.

 

[regoratsginrom]

So yormark is doing a bad job?

I think just the opposite (potentially). He's being very creative and has a vision that may be different somewhat from the norm. Who knows if it will payoff or not, given all the changes in college athletics.

It's not out of the realm of thinking that college athletics/conferences/NCAA could be gone completely as we know it in a few years. I can see "professional" teams licensing school names...kids aren't required to be students anymore...regional divisions (that make sense) set up like the NFL...Title IX is gone from revenue producing sports...etc.

The only change I know for sure is that there will be change.

 

[Huskers123456]

I've admittedly never been part of any $1B Private Equity NCAA Conference whatever deals. But, I'm fairly certain the plan would be to invest short term for the potential long term ROI. So, sure why not, I'll take a crack at it...

First of all, A&M, Penn State, Oregon, Clemson and FSU are NOT blue bloods. So, let's set them aside for a minute.

In its simplest form, let's just say all it would take is adding 2 blue bloods to get Fox/ESPN/Netflix/Amazon/whoever to increase the Big 12's TV deal equal to the SEC or BIG. You've got a half Billion dollar signing bonus each to go find two. Hey, (fill in the blank) blue blood...here's $500 Million and a guaranteed X number of years TV deal equal to what you've got now. Interested?

In that way too overly dumbed down scenario, you tell me which blue blood wouldn't make that move.

It would obviously be much more complex than that, but I just laid that out for illustration purposes. The TV network would require much more than just 2 teams, so insert the fringe blue bloods like the ones you listed above. The Allstate 12 would need to figure out if $1B could get the TV guys what they wanted. And the PE would have to determine if that $1B would result in a decent ROI if all of that happened. Again, I'm oversimplifying for sure.

Maybe I've just watched too much 'Welcome to Wrexham' but it seems like the same general concept to me. Hell, maybe the Allstate 12 will get a reality series documenting the process as part of the deal

So list your bluebloods so I know what we're dealing with here.

1. The difference in conference payout between the Big 10/SEC and the Big 12 is massive right now. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I believe at least $30 million per year per team. That $1 billion doesn't go that far when you start crunching numbers over the long-term.

2. I can't think of one blueblood that needs money. Even on what you call fringe blueblood, FSU is probably the only one who seems to lack money.

3. You assume that the Big 10/SEC would just let their best teams walk. Not going to happen. So this whole thing is either a) to attract ACC teams or b) provide an influx of cash to try and allow the Big 12 to compete in the new era of directly paying players.

4. What teams truly move the needle as far as viewership? FSU vs. ASU isn't going to get eyeballs. Clemson vs. Kansas isn't going to get viewers.

Breaking up the ACC is the only realistic endgame I see that would be worth it, and that is risky. If that pushed ND to the Big 10 that would be a gamechanger for the Big 10.

 

[V-Doub]

having spent much of my career in m&a, it's hard not to take your thoughts for what they are in this matter. i won't characterize them. other than to say the private equity company is the free market screaming at you that the b12 is undervalued, literally screaming with a billion dollars. and let me say that if there's cracker jacks at play here we know where they're located between your ears.

Every bad idea can usually find one or two schmucks to invest (throw away) their money.

 

[Muskyhunter16]

This is interesting, I work in wealth management and do a lot of PE deals for our clients. All of them typically have a 5-10 year investment period and then a very defined exit strategy. What I’m trying to figure out is the exit strategy for this PE company, are they planning on the conference just buying back the 20% ownership at some multiple 7 years down the road? Maybe selling it to another PE fund, I doubt it? I can’t see that happening and wondering what their exit plan is as you know they have one.

 

[Huskers123456]

This is interesting, I work in wealth management and do a lot of PE deals for our clients. All of them typically have a 5-10 year investment period and then a very defined exit strategy. What I’m trying to figure out is the exit strategy for this PE company, are they planning on the conference just buying back the 20% ownership at some multiple 7 years down the road? Maybe selling it to another PE fund, I doubt it? I can’t see that happening and wondering what their exit plan is as you know they have one.

I think there is obviously a catch that the article didn't discuss. A 15% to 20% voting right doesn't give this company any real leverage. They would basically have the voting equivalent of 2 or 3 teams.

 

[AVeritas]

I think there is obviously a catch that the article didn't discuss. A 15% to 20% voting right doesn't give this company any real leverage. They would basically have the voting equivalent of 2 or 3 teams.

maybe they see the upside as obvious. adding fsu and clemson, for example, would make the enterprise far more valuable. and clearly both of them are available, actually looking for an acc out.

 

[bigboxes]

maybe they see the upside as obvious. adding fsu and clemson, for example, would make the enterprise far more valuable. and clearly both of them are available, actually looking for an acc out.

They're not looking to go to the big 12. Haven't you got enough attention for one day? What's worse than the ACC? The Big 12. The Big 12 will not be part of the P2. That's where you going to find FSU once it's able to break its ACC commitment. Maybe you should go back to putting your hands over your ears and saying la la la.

 

[TFrazier]

FSU/Clemson would only go to the Big 12 if the BIG 10 and SEC turn them down.