How long would T.O. get these days?

[dand84]

This has nothing to do with our current coaching problems as we have lots of threads for that. Just speculating on how long someone like T.O. would get in this day and age. Not counting his time as OC for 2 national titles, Tom played for 5 and won 3. Tom, however, had 3 great struggles throughout his career.

First and foremost was Barry Switzer. Tom simply couldn't beat him. In fact, only in the 2 failed national title runs in the early 80s did Tom ever beat Barry in consecutive years. One can argue that Barry stopped more national title runs for NU than anyone else By my count, Tom was 5 wins out of 17 played against Barry in 16 years ('73 - '88). Only 2 of those wins on the road.

Second was Bobby Bowden. Tom simply couldn't beat him either and that was especially apparent in later bowl games. 2 wins (both at home) out of 8 games played. Granted, the failed National Title game in '93 was a great showing and could have went either way.

Third was Tom's run from '84-'92 where the team was clearly in decline. It also happens to be when I was there going to games. For the most part, the teams got progressively worse. At one point, Tom's moniker was 2-8-1 as the perception at the time was that he couldn't win the big game. From '84-'93, T.O. lost 8 bowl games and only won 2 (both against LSU) including 7 losses in a row (to be fair, most of those loses coming at the hands of the national title winner: Miami, FSU, G.T., etc).

Tom figured things out. He innovated on the offensive side of the ball as OC in the late 60s. He developed his own brand of high powered offense (the option) to deal with OU. He started recruiting for speed in the late 80s / early 90s to overcome the trends going on in the South (Miami, FSU, SEC, etc). The defenses got better. He adapted. I have no doubts he would have come with things like the spread or other innovations had he stayed.

My question is though, in this day and age, would T.O. be given the same latitude as back then? It is a hard question because, on the whole of it, T.O. did incredibly well, especially against teams from the SEC (a conference he simply owned outright throughout his career). He also coached or OC'ed some of the greatest games ever played. So maybe he just does get more slack than most.

 

[Huskercigar]

Well its hard to answer that because we are talking different times. I'll say a couple of things. He was consistently in the top 10 and if he was doing that now days he would be a keeper. Rumblings if we had the bowl losses and close but no cigar yes. But he wouldn't have got fired.

I'll also say it seemed a little weird that you said he simply couldn't beat Barry or Bobby and then went on to talk about the number of wins he had against them.

 

[Snickerdoodle70]

This has nothing to do with our current coaching problems as we have lots of threads for that. Just speculating on how long someone like T.O. would get in this day and age. Not counting his time as OC for 2 national titles, Tom played for 5 and won 3. Tom, however, had 3 great struggles throughout his career.

First and foremost was Barry Switzer. Tom simply couldn't beat him. In fact, only in the 2 failed national title runs in the early 80s did Tom ever beat Barry in consecutive years. One can argue that Barry stopped more national title runs for NU than anyone else By my count, Tom was 5 wins out of 17 played against Barry in 16 years ('73 - '88). Only 2 of those wins on the road.

Second was Bobby Bowden. Tom simply couldn't beat him either and that was especially apparent in later bowl games. 2 wins (both at home) out of 8 games played. Granted, the failed National Title game in '93 was a great showing and could have went either way.

Third was Tom's run from '84-'92 where the team was clearly in decline. It also happens to be when I was there going to games. For the most part, the teams got progressively worse. At one point, Tom's moniker was 2-8-1 as the perception at the time was that he couldn't win the big game. From '84-'93, T.O. lost 8 bowl games and only won 2 (both against LSU) including 7 losses in a row (to be fair, most of those loses coming at the hands of the national title winner: Miami, FSU, G.T., etc).

Tom figured things out. He innovated on the offensive side of the ball as OC in the late 60s. He developed his own brand of high powered offense (the option) to deal with OU. He started recruiting for speed in the late 80s / early 90s to overcome the trends going on in the South (Miami, FSU, SEC, etc). The defenses got better. He adapted. I have no doubts he would have come with things like the spread or other innovations had he stayed.

My question is though, in this day and age, would T.O. be given the same latitude as back then? It is a hard question because, on the whole of it, T.O. did incredibly well, especially against teams from the SEC (a conference he simply owned outright throughout his career). He also coached or OC'ed some of the greatest games ever played. So maybe he just does get more slack than most.

Win 84% of your games and have the best winning percentage among your peers? One would hope indefinitely.

Fortunately, Riley is not in the same vicinity as Osborne when it comes to winning and accolades, despite their coaching tenures being roughly the same.

 

[Pennsyhusker]

Well its hard to answer that because we are talking different times. I'll say a couple of things. He was consistently in the top 10 and if he was doing that now days he would be a keeper. Rumblings if we had the bowl losses and close but no cigar yes. But he wouldn't have got fired.

I'll also say it seemed a little weird that you said he simply couldn't beat Barry or Bobby and then went on to talk about the number of wins he had against them.

Times are not that much different. I remember clearly that there was a lot of big time grumbling against Osborne, especially after the two very mediocre teams/seasons in 76-77. He had not beaten OU, got utterly demolished by them in 77, and his teams seemed to be regressing. There were a lot of people screaming for his head. That win over OU in 78 was huge for his career.

But what probably saved him from getting fired after the 77 season were three things:
1. He did manage to upset Alabama that year in a thrilling game
2. He won his bowl game
3. Bob Devaney was AD and was able to hold off the pitchfork brigade of boosters

It can't be overemphasized how important it was that he had Devaney as AD. It bought him time that another AD may not have given him.

Makes me wonder ... had TO not retired as AD, would Bo still be our coach?

 

[Huskercigar]

Times are not that much different. I remember clearly that there was a lot of big time grumbling against Osborne, especially after the two very mediocre teams/seasons in 76-77. He had not beaten OU, got utterly demolished by them in 77, and his teams seemed to be regressing. There were a lot of people screaming for his head. That win over OU in 78 was huge for his career.

But what probably saved him from getting fired after the 77 season were three things:
1. He did manage to upset Alabama that year in a thrilling game
2. He won his bowl game
3. Bob Devaney was AD and was able to hold off the pitchfork brigade of boosters

It can't be overemphasized how important it was that he had Devaney as AD. It bought him time that another AD may not have given him.

Makes me wonder ... had TO not retired as AD, would Bo still be our coach?

That and if he had either beat Texas or Oklahoma to win a Championship. He certainly had some pent up anger issues and the fan pressure brought it out.

 

[spinner4]

1973: 9-2-1, finished # 7
1974: 9-3 , finished # 9
1975: 10-2 , finished # 9
1976: 9-3 , finished # 7
1977: 9-3 , finished # 10

It never took TO time to put a good product on the field. I'd take any of those years in a dam heart beat. I am pretty sure the moral would be extremely high if those were are next 5 years

 

[swissticuffs]

5 years.

 

[Antwill]

Tom's teams were very rarely embarrassed and were almost always competitive.

Now is a different time and as far as we've fallen, I hope our fans are patient enough to accept steady improvement initially over 10+ win seasons and conference championships. If not, we may never get back to being relevant.

 

[dinglefritz]

Tom's teams were very rarely embarrassed and were almost always competitive.

Now is a different time and as far as we've fallen, I hope our fans are patient enough to accept steady improvement initially over 10+ win seasons and conference championships. If not, we may never get back to being relevant.

Tom always won at least 8 with a game less on the schedule. He represented the state and NU as well as anybody could have asked for. He would have all the time he wanted even today. IF Pelini would have conducted himself the way Tom did, Bo would still be here even with the ass whippings form Wisconsin. Yeah people would bitch but he would still be here.

 

[Solana Beach Husker]

He won 9 games or more for 25 straight years in an era where a team only played 12 games a season and not up to 14. He won 10 games 16 times in 25 years..he won 80% of his games over a quarter decade...he was NEVER on the hot seat...the real drama was that NU fans were either drunk enough or stupid enough to criticize him. Remember when a blowout used to be 22-3...now we are down by 40 at half in some games.

 

[headcard]

I thought no our fan base is so much more realistic today. TO’s early results would get him a ton of rope today. Big difference following Devaney and Riley.

 

[Sinomatic]

TOs teams were ranked every year and in or just outside of the top 15 for his entire career I think.

If a coach does that here he stays a long long...long time.

 

[dckchusker]

He won 9 games or more for 25 straight years in an era where a team only played 12 games a season and not up to 14. He won 10 games 16 times in 25 years..he won 80% of his games over a quarter decade...he was NEVER on the hot seat...the real drama was that NU fans were either drunk enough or stupid enough to criticize him. Remember when a blowout used to be 22-3...now we are down by 40 at half in some games.

When TO was jogging off the field after beating Texas Tech by a field goal in the 1976 Astro-Bluebonnet Bowl, a prominent booster shook his hand and said it was a good thing NU won that game because if he hadn't, there would have been a movement to fire him. With Devaney still the AD, it likely wouldn't have succeeded but it would sowed serious seeds of division in the fan base.

Fans at that time expected NU to be OU's equal, and for most of the 70's, it wasn't. That chapped the hides of a lot of fans. Seasons with 9-10 wins were taken for granted. The standard was beating OU and contending for a national championship. TO didn't win an outright Big 8 championship until his 9th season.

For perspective, imagine Nick Saban retires after this season, and his successor loses 2-3 games a year and repeatedly comes up short in "big" games. How long would that coach last?

 

[oldjar07]

1973: 9-2-1, finished # 7
1974: 9-3 , finished # 9
1975: 10-2 , finished # 9
1976: 9-3 , finished # 7
1977: 9-3 , finished # 10

It never took TO time to put a good product on the field. I'd take any of those years in a dam heart beat. I am pretty sure the moral would be extremely high if those were are next 5 years

And the poster above you is claiming 76 and 77 were mediocre seasons! If we finished in the top 10 now, it would be considered a spectacular season. Standards have certainly changed.

 

[dand84]

I think the 70s losses to OU hurt T.O. but on the other hand, he beat a lot of ranked teams, especially in bowl games including showing really well throughout the decade against the SEC.

The area where I think T.O. was more vulnerable was the late 80's to early 90's where he wasn't finishing in the top 10 every year and he wasn't beating top ranked opponents and he was horrible in bowl games. I think a lot of that had to do with NU playing the national champions in many of those bowl games where in this day and age, they would have been in a lesser bowl.

He really didn't turn the corner till '93. '83 to '93 was a long time with only 2 bowl wins both against LSU.

 

[RedCap]

Actually, he'd get longer today than back when he was a coach as long as 9 wins was still his minimum but there were 10+ seasons also sprinkled in. Pelini actually got several years but was ultimately done in by his anger issues as much as anything. And now fan expectations are even lower than they used to be. A string of failed coaches will do that.

 

[dinglefritz]

Actually, he'd get longer today than back when he was a coach as long as 9 wins was still his minimum but there were 10+ seasons also sprinkled in. Pelini actually got several years but was ultimately done in by his anger issues as much as anything. And now fan expectations are even lower than they used to be. A string of failed coaches will do that.

Mike Riley is the perfect predecessor for a new coach. IF we hire the right guy, he's gonna get several years of a pass from people saying, look at the mess Riley left him. IF we get a guy with a pulse we should be able to have a winning season every year and probably 8-9 win seasons frequently right away. JMHO. The stench of 2 losing seasons out of 3 has brought most Husker fans with memory of the 90's back down to reality..

 

[redwine65]

championship fan would have canned Dr. Tom, no big 8 title for 7 years, no NC for 20 years
but top ten fan would have kept him around...

I remember when being at #9 was something to be frowned upon..lol

 

[dinglefritz]

championship fan would have canned Dr. Tom, no big 8 title for 7 years, no NC for 20 years
but top ten fan would have kept him around...

I remember when being at #9 was something to be frowned upon..lol

It is amazing how spoiled we got. It's amazing that some people don't realize how unusual that was and how unlikely it is that it will occur again any time soon.

 

[redwine65]

It is amazing how spoiled we got. It's amazing that some people don't realize how unusual that was and how unlikely it is that it will occur again any time soon.

to me it shows the importance of Oklahoma being close to texas and Dr. Toms leadership, in all things.
the two programs were very similar, but based on different foundations.
scholarship limits, and more programs working out and $caring$ about successful football. seem to have hurt NU a lot more.