Home schooling...

[90sman]

I'm stealing this from somewhere and paraphrasing, but - imagine the thing you know the most about. Now think about how most people write and talk about that thing, on social media, etc. and how utterly ignorant they are.

That's what it's like for me when I read peoples' takes on education. Everybody went to school somewhere, sometime in their life, so that makes them an expert. I get it. Just like all the doctors that got their degree from WebMD.

No offense to anyone. I'm definitely down for substantive discussion.

 

[Streamer15]

I'm stealing this from somewhere and paraphrasing, but - imagine the thing you know the most about. Now think about how most people write and talk about that thing, on social media, etc. and how utterly ignorant they are.

That's what it's like for me when I read peoples' takes on education. Everybody went to school somewhere, sometime in their life, so that makes them an expert. I get it. Just like all the doctors that got their degree from WebMD.

No offense to anyone. I'm definitely down for substantive discussion.

Fair point.
Have you done everything your doctor tells you to do? Have you ever gone for a second medical opinion? Have you ever changed doctors?
I am cool with a discussion.

For the record, we home school because my wife is an educator and it fits with a lifestyle we wanted for our kids. Most people probably shouldn't.

 

[61bigredfan]

Fair point.
Have you done everything your doctor tells you to do? Have you ever gone for a second medical opinion? Have you ever changed doctors?
I am cool with a discussion.

For the record, we home school because my wife is an educator and it fits with a lifestyle we wanted for our kids. Most people probably shouldn't.

Think it depends on if you have the time and the resources and the skill to do it right. You seem to have all of those.

I have some neighbors that did it and the issue was the boys got taught well and the girls were taught poorly and never amounted to much.
The problem with not educating girls is if they marry a dick they’re screwed.

 

[90sman]

Fair point.
Have you done everything your doctor tells you to do? Have you ever gone for a second medical opinion? Have you ever changed doctors?
I am cool with a discussion.

For the record, we home school because my wife is an educator and it fits with a lifestyle we wanted for our kids. Most people probably shouldn't.

That is actually a great example about the doctors. Two very smart and highly trained professionals can, and often do, come to different conclusions. I'm thinking medicine is probably vastly more complicated than most people, including myself, imagine.

Good on ya for homeschooling and doing it well. That is a beautiful thing for your family. We considered that, and private school (religious). Ultimately, all the kids ended up in public schools and they are thriving.

I'm a big advocate for public schools, private schools, and home schools. Whatever is truly the best fit for kids and families, case-by-case basis.

 

[BTF69]

You had us until the most work from home and it's not really working shit.

I get it, many parents today and imo the school administration do not help teachers. Discipline is a foreign word too most. Dealing with little brats today would have most of us fired and possibly charged with assault.

But PLEASE teachers f@cking just admit summers off is an awesome thing that most people can't even dream of. And don't get me started on pensions.

I mean, I worked from home, it is not really working, why do you think people are doing all the can to keep working from home?

Which would you rather do, work from home or from the office?

Summers off is awesome, so is working from home. And please get started on the pensions, go for it, why wouldn't you? It is insane that any job keeps paying you after you stop working, cops, firemen, teachers, you name it.

 

[BTF69]

I wouldn't decide. I assume that good teachers and admin know who the dead weight is and can decide that for themselves. I married a teacher and heard her coworkers complain about the pay...constantly. Prior to bringing my kids in for homeschooling, we didn't hear teachers complain to us about their pay. As far as me doing nothing, I bought a 3D printer for the the school to enhance their Science/Engineering curriculum. My plan was to roll this out to low income school and have engineers come in and show the faculty how to use them. Ultimately, I got close to zero feedback an I let the idea die.
There is room for improvement in my company. There is room for improvement in the public school system. Nobody should be defensive about it.

Not defensive about it I am just telling you what it probably is. Most bad teachers leave very early on in their career.

Did you end up giving the printer to the school? We have a few at my school, they are cool

 

[BTF69]

I'm stealing this from somewhere and paraphrasing, but - imagine the thing you know the most about. Now think about how most people write and talk about that thing, on social media, etc. and how utterly ignorant they are.

That's what it's like for me when I read peoples' takes on education. Everybody went to school somewhere, sometime in their life, so that makes them an expert. I get it. Just like all the doctors that got their degree from WebMD.

No offense to anyone. I'm definitely down for substantive discussion.

The people that "know how to fix education" always start off with the idea that the kids in the classroom are perfect.

That would be like wanting to become a doctor and all your patients are perfectly healthy 100% of the time.

I don't blame them though, it makes sense to start that way.

The other one I hear is "Yeah, my daughters ______________ teacher did not know the material, so basically my daughter ended up teaching the class"

 

[PvilleHuskerTim]

There are probably not a lot of "bad teachers" most leave the field in the first 3-5 years.

What you probably mean is "burnt out", it is tough to go to work and work with people that are basically doing all the can to resist what you are trying to do each day.

I have taught at places where I asked kids to open up to page 42 and was told to "**** off" and that "my grandpa will come down here and make you rest in pieces"

Try not to take this the wrong way, but this sort of scenario is almost entirely the fault of the "educators" within the entire educational system (see my prior post about all the separate elements that need to be aligned and moving in the same direction to achieve maximum results). Teachers, who are dues paying union members, have the best opportunity to make changes that positively impact their working conditions. Getting the administrators and the teachers union focused on this basic, fundamental aspect of school as the highest priority would get 90%+ of the rest of the system on your side. School Board, parents, community, etc. would support teachers more if that actually happened, which in turn forces the politicians (local, state, and federal) to go along. Instead, the "educators" rarely, if ever, make this as a priority. And I say this in general, as I recognize urban/rural cultural differences and coastal/midwestern differences.

We wouldn't see the massive parental activism that is going on right now if the "educators" had maintained this philosophy as opposed to all the other stuff that has gradually seeped into the educational systems the past 30-40 years.

 

[BTF69]

Try not to take this the wrong way, but this sort of scenario is almost entirely the fault of the "educators" within the entire educational system (see my prior post about all the separate elements that need to be aligned and moving in the same direction to achieve maximum results). Teachers, who are dues paying union members, have the best opportunity to make changes that positively impact their working conditions. Getting the administrators and the teachers union focused on this basic, fundamental aspect of school as the highest priority would get 90%+ of the rest of the system on your side. School Board, parents, community, etc. would support teachers more if that actually happened, which in turn forces the politicians (local, state, and federal) to go along. Instead, the "educators" rarely, if ever, make this as a priority. And I say this in general, as I recognize urban/rural cultural differences and coastal/midwestern differences.

We wouldn't see the massive parental activism that is going on right now if the "educators" had maintained this philosophy as opposed to all the other stuff that has gradually seeped into the educational systems the past 30-40 years.

I don't take it the wrong way.

Parents are not more involved now. It has pretty much been the same forever. We just hear about it more now because of the easy of social media. But Parking Lot Moms have always been around.

But teachers have made changes, salaries continue to go up and up, which is important.

The only change we can't make is how to deal with the jackass kids in school. That policy is beyond our control, I suppose, unless we all started to quit or strike, something that most teachers unions are very much against.

 

[nostromo78]

I don't take it the wrong way.

Parents are not more involved now. It has pretty much been the same forever. We just hear about it more now because of the easy of social media. But Parking Lot Moms have always been around.

But teachers have made changes, salaries continue to go up and up, which is important.

The only change we can't make is how to deal with the jackass kids in school. That policy is beyond our control, I suppose, unless we all started to quit or strike, something that most teachers unions are very much against.

I was just gonna post this exact same thing. 40 years ago, was a vastly different world. I dont envy teachers these days. I have about 10 of them in my family and close friend group. They all do really well. One in special ed in an underserved school, and good lord most people have absolutely no clue what is going on with some of these kids.

Also, if you want to understand why home school gets such a bad rap, watch the documentary "Shiny Happy People" about the Duggars family that had like 26 kids or whatever.

 

[90sman]

Try not to take this the wrong way, but this sort of scenario is almost entirely the fault of the "educators" within the entire educational system (see my prior post about all the separate elements that need to be aligned and moving in the same direction to achieve maximum results). Teachers, who are dues paying union members, have the best opportunity to make changes that positively impact their working conditions. Getting the administrators and the teachers union focused on this basic, fundamental aspect of school as the highest priority would get 90%+ of the rest of the system on your side. School Board, parents, community, etc. would support teachers more if that actually happened, which in turn forces the politicians (local, state, and federal) to go along. Instead, the "educators" rarely, if ever, make this as a priority. And I say this in general, as I recognize urban/rural cultural differences and coastal/midwestern differences.

We wouldn't see the massive parental activism that is going on right now if the "educators" had maintained this philosophy as opposed to all the other stuff that has gradually seeped into the educational systems the past 30-40 years.

You are obviously a smart and articulate guy. But I will tell you that the first, second, and third concern of classroom teachers is student behavior. And I will also tell you that collectively, teachers are completely ignored. An inordinate amount of time is spent "addressing" behavior", just in the wrong ways.

There is a complex set of national, state, and local laws and policies, as well as cultural changes and shifts in attitudes compared to previous generations that make this aspect so hard today. Teachers supposedly not focusing on behavior is nowhere near the reason it has gotten so bad.

 

[Streamer15]

Think it depends on if you have the time and the resources and the skill to do it right. You seem to have all of those.

I have some neighbors that did it and the issue was the boys got taught well and the girls were taught poorly and never amounted to much.
The problem with not educating girls is if they marry a dick they’re screwed.

Agreed. I am very invested in making my daughters independent.

 

[PvilleHuskerTim]

You are obviously a smart and articulate guy. But I will tell you that the first, second, and third concern of classroom teachers is student behavior. And I will also tell you that collectively, teachers are completely ignored. An inordinate amount of time is spent "addressing" behavior", just in the wrong ways.

There is a complex set of national, state, and local laws and policies, as well as cultural changes and shifts in attitudes compared to previous generations that make this aspect so hard today. Teachers supposedly not focusing on behavior is nowhere near the reason it has gotten so bad.

This is actually good to hear. I wish teachers had more influence on the union, which seems like it would be the case, as teachers would advocate for addressing behavioral issues. But, alas, unions don’t seem to listen to their members. As you could probably infer from most of my comments, I think the biggest problem is the union (and ultimately politicians — although some may argue they are the same).

 

[Streamer15]

Not defensive about it I am just telling you what it probably is. Most bad teachers leave very early on in their career.

Did you end up giving the printer to the school? We have a few at my school, they are cool

It was a donation from the beginning. It might be collecting dust at this point, but hopefully not. Whenever I hang it up, I'll revisit the idea, possibly starting a non profit.

 

[90sman]

This is actually good to hear. I wish teachers had more influence on the union, which seems like it would be the case, as teachers would advocate for addressing behavioral issues. But, alas, unions don’t seem to listen to their members. As you could probably infer from most of my comments, I think the biggest problem is the union (and ultimately politicians — although some may argue they are the same).

You may be encouraged to know that younger teachers are less likely to join the union these days. I was wined and dined as part of a focus group by the union along with 15 or so other young teachers to get at the core of why that was. The overarching theme was, "I'm a good teacher - why would I need any legal protection?"

But, while I wasn't a union guy, and did not really see any benefit to joining, I don't think they are to blame for this. First, it's not the union not listening to teachers, it's policymakers. Second, I don't even know if student behavior is really something that can be addressed in collective bargaining. Things that are concrete and quantifiable, like salary, plan time, vacation, etc are easier to build contracts around. Student behavior is too gray. Even if they could, there are literally laws that would prevent a school district from implementing any changes most teachers would love to see.

I suppose some teachers could strike over student behavior, but teacher strikes are...not popular with anyone. Definitely not the way to restore the public trust.

 

[Streamer15]

You may be encouraged to know that younger teachers are less likely to join the union these days. I was wined and dined as part of a focus group by the union along with 15 or so other young teachers to get at the core of why that was. The overarching theme was, "I'm a good teacher - why would I need any legal protection?"

But, while I wasn't a union guy, and did not really see any benefit to joining, I don't think they are to blame for this. First, it's not the union not listening to teachers, it's policymakers. Second, I don't even know if student behavior is really something that can be addressed in collective bargaining. Things that are concrete and quantifiable, like salary, plan time, vacation, etc are easier to build contracts around. Student behavior is too gray. Even if they could, there are literally laws that would prevent a school district from implementing any changes most teachers would love to see.

I suppose some teachers could strike over student behavior, but teacher strikes are...not popular with anyone. Definitely not the way to restore the public trust.

Thank you for your inputs. I've learned a bit from them.

 

[SeaOfRed75]

Blame cultural Marxist Paulo Freire for a lot of the problems in schools today.
Third most cited academic author of all time. His 1968 work Pedagogy of the oppressed has permeated most all teachers colleges in the western world.
It's cultural commie bullsh!t.

I really recommend everyone, teachers especially to watch the hours and hours on this subject that you can find on YouTube by such people as James Lindsay. Just seeing what bs papers he and Peter Bogeshian were able to publish in big time journals will crack you up.

 

[BTF69]

It was a donation from the beginning. It might be collecting dust at this point, but hopefully not. Whenever I hang it up, I'll revisit the idea, possibly starting a non profit.

My advice, DON'T!
My good friend started one and a charter school...huge ****ing mess once "the parents" got their hands on stuff. You mean well and that is awesome...the problem is the other parents mean well too and it becomes a horrible mess.

 

[Streamer15]

My advice, DON'T!
My good friend started one and a charter school...huge ****ing mess once "the parents" got their hands on stuff. You mean well and that is awesome...the problem is the other parents mean well too and it becomes a horrible mess.

To clarify, I would create a non profit to receive donations then purchase the 3D printers, or anything else for a STEM class. After that I would train up the teachers, assuming they want that, then walk away. Being kept in the loop would be nice, but not mandatory. If you see pitfalls in that, I'd like to understand them.

 

[BTF69]

To clarify, I would create a non profit to receive donations then purchase the 3D printers, or anything else for a STEM class. After that I would train up the teachers, assuming they want that, then walk away. Being kept in the loop would be nice, but not mandatory. If you see pitfalls in that, I'd like to understand them.

Ahhhh, got it! That makes more sense!

That is a great idea!