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Good Gawd - Penn State

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I know that when I was young...and I would hang out with old men in the showers...that we would always make "sexual noises" that had nothing to do with sex.

That is totally normal...right?
You probably don't know but the kid from the shower said nothing happened that night. He told investigators that. He said he was sliding around in the showers.
That said that's not my point and you know it. The point is even dranov and his dad (not evil joe) pressed mike asking him over and over again if he saw anything. They finally determined there was nothing to go to police with.
That's probably the story he told joe and the admins. I think that's pretty important. I think in between the ped State nonsense and sitting in judgement it's important to remember the facts.
I also think you should consider the jury found zero conspiracy. The jurors actually commented that the cover-up theory was preposterous.
 
Hello guys. I know it's your board but since your commenting on Penn State I figured I'd chime in.
I'm not sure why jay should be banned or ostracized from doing what he wants to do with his life. And this is coming from someone who thought jay was an awful coach and recruiter. Does that really sound fair? I don't think any of us would punish innocent people because they had a family member do something bad. I think you guys understand that.
Additionally, and I'm not trying to convince anyone because you're entitled to your opinion as am I, but the admin trials are over. After five years, 22 charges, 14 of which were felonies, two admins pled guilty to one misdemeanor each and spanier was found guilty of one misdemeanor. He's appealing. The jury found no evidence of a cover-up. None. No felonies.
The misdemeanors were for reporting to second mile instead of cys. That was a mistake and I'm glad they accepted blame for it.
That said please read the excerpt below from a book by Joe Posnanski called "Paterno."
I would just ask you read it with an open mind. It deals with what mike reported. Thanks.
"The presentment, as such things do, made black and white what was a smoggy gray. When questioned, Mcqueary admitted that he did not see anything very clearly.He also said under oath that "out of respect," he had not used graphic terms and had not gone into much detail with Paterno. In this their memories coincided: Paterno said what Mcqueary told him was not even close in specifics or in brutality to what was in the presentment.
There is strong evidence that Mcqueary was much less certain about what he saw in the aftermath of the incident. According to testimony, that Friday night, after he left the Lasch Building, he went to his father's house to ask for advice. The two of them talked at some length, and then they called over a family friend, Dr. Jonathan Dranov. Dranov, a prominent doctor in the community, told Paterno family investigators in 2011, and a Pennsylvania jury in 2012, that Mcqueary said he heard some "sexual sounds" but could offer no more detail. Dranov said that three times he pressed Mcquery to describe what he actually saw, and three times Mcquery said that he did not see anything in the shower. Dranov conceded that Mcqueary might have been holding back; he too remembered just how upset Mcqueary was, which was why he kept pressing the issue. But at the end of the conversation Mcqueary continued to say that he did not see any act but that he heard those noises.
Dranov said Mcqueary's visual description was of a naked young boy, in the doorway of the shower. Mcqueary then said he saw an arm pull the boy back out of the way, and seconds later Sandusky walked around the corner with a towel wrapped around his waist. Dranov and the Mcquearys agreed that Mike had not seen enough to go to the police, and Dranov recommended that Mcqueary go to Paterno on that Saturday morning. Dranov conceded all those years later that, though the incident sounded bad, Sandusky's reputation as a community icon was still in tact. He said he never heard any rumors about Sandusky and that what Mcqueary had seen led to the possibility of a misunderstanding and "an innocent explanation."
Paterno would later say that if Mcqueary had told him he saw Sandusky raping a young boy, "We would have gone to the police right then and there, no questions asked."
End of except

Jay Paterno has every right to run for that position.

Just never imagined there were enough brain f**ked lemmings in happy valley to elect him.
 
I know that when I was young...and I would hang out with old men in the showers...that we would always make "sexual noises" that had nothing to do with sex.

That is totally normal...right?
And I agree john but I guess js and the kid worked out earlier. But I agree and I would have been uncomfortable as well. But if I saw an assault, and mike clearly didn't according to what he told his dad and dranov - I would have intervened as you would.
Mike changed his story 10 years later to cover his as$.
 
Jay Paterno has every right to run for that position.

Just never imagined there were enough brain f**ked lemmings in happy valley to elect him.
Why. Jay loves the university. He still lives in State College. I don't get why voting for jay makes one a bad person.
Who among us is so perfect that we can cast these kind of stones at each other. What happened to those without sin should cast the first stone.
 
And I agree john but I guess js and the kid worked out earlier. But I agree and I would have been uncomfortable as well. But I saw an assault, and mike clearly didn't according to what he told his dad and dranov - I would have intervened as you would.
Mike changed his story 10 years later to cover his as$.

If I was big strapping male around that program I would be damn sure to cover my ass as well
 
And I agree john but I guess js and the kid worked out earlier. But I agree and I would have been uncomfortable as well. But if I saw an assault, and mike clearly didn't according to what he told his dad and dranov - I would have intervened as you would.
Mike changed his story 10 years later to cover his as$.
Or...Mike covered his ass 10 years ago...and told the truth 10 years later.
 
Why. Jay loves the university. He still lives in State College. I don't get why voting for jay makes one a bad person.
Who among us is so perfect that we can cast these kind of stones at each other. What happened to those without sin should cast the first stone.
Lol. Do another bible reference
 
Raised Catholic. Just choose not to use religion as an excuse or spin.
How is that an excuse. That's what we're taught, just like the Golden rule, or doesn't it apply in life anymore. Then again I'm getting up there in years so I wouldn't be surprised by anything anymore.
And I didn't make any excuses for anyone.
 
How was there no evidence of a cover-up? Spanier sent a freaking email signing off on the decision not to report Sandusky to law enforcement, and that email was the main piece of evidence on which he was convicted:

No cover-up?

What really kills me about that arrogant #*&@'s email is when he says "the only downside" of Sandusky not getting proper treatment is that he and the other Penn State administrators might be vulnerable for not reporting him to law enforcement. Think about that for a moment. He didn't write, "the downside is some more children might get molested" or "the downside is that children's lives might be ruined." Nope, he was worried about Graham Spanier and Graham Spanier only.

I'll say one very positive thing about Penn State: Thank you for taking that smarmy, conceited jackass away from the state of Nebraska. We owe you one for that.

And as for the current PSU coaches and players - I don't associate them with any of this. I still want Penn State to lose pretty much every game they play until the end of time, but not because of the shame Spanier and crew brought down on the university.
 
How was there no evidence of a cover-up? Spanier sent a freaking email signing off on the decision not to report Sandusky to law enforcement, and that email was the main piece of evidence on which he was convicted:

No cover-up?

What really kills me about that arrogant #*&@'s email is when he says "the only downside" of Sandusky not getting proper treatment is that he and the other Penn State administrators might be vulnerable f
or not reporting him to law enforcement. Think about that for a moment. He didn't write, "the downside is some more children might get molested" or "the downside is that children's lives might be ruined." Nope, he was worried about Graham Spanier and Graham Spanier only.

I'll say one very positive thing about Penn State: Thank you for taking that smarmy, conceited jackass away from the state of Nebraska. We owe you one for that.

And as for the current PSU coaches and players - I don't associate them with any of this. I still want Penn State to lose pretty much every game they play until the end of time, but not because of the shame Spanier and crew brought down on the university.
Because they reported Mike's report to the second mile, the charity responsible for the kids. As the jurors indicated that is one insane cover-up.
The prosecution's case was so weak the defense didn't call a single witness. Spanier commented on that email but I don't have that article anymore.
Again, mistakes were made but as I posted with Mike's report to his dad and dranov - he said he didn't see anything. 10 years later he changed his story.
Spanier was a former abused kid so I'm not sure what his motivation is to cover for a retired coach.
The bottom line is a jury listened to all the evidence and found zero evidence of a conspiracy.
And you're commenting on spanier's action with what we know today. He didn't know js was molesting anyone.
After no charges were filed against js in 98 the State allowed him to adopt kids. Matt Sandusky fought The State to be adopted by js over his mom. That's the knowledge the admins had.
And I don't get your hate for Penn State. Since when do we hate an entire org because you think a few guys did something bad.
Larry Nasser at msu was allegly raping girls for years and many of the victims are claiming they told msu officials. Even if that is true I'm not going to damn msu. That's just insane.
Same twisted logic applies to people hating on the church.
 
Guess what? Child endangerment laws don't give a s--- who else you told about a child being sexually assaulted. Spanier made a conscious decision to break the law by not reporting Sandusky to law enforcement. That's why the jury convicted him. For committing that crime he should go to prison, though he'll probably just keep running out the clock with motions and appeals. At least the other two had the decency to plead guilty, but Spanier's never taken responsibility for anything.

And I'm sorry but "mistakes were made" is lame terminology used by slobbering apologists. Mistakes weren't made. A person in a position of high authority made the decision to put his own reputation and legacy above his obligation to report a sexual predator to the proper authrorities. And no, I don't think Spanier was looking to protect Paterno - I think he was strictly looking out for himself.

And I didn't say I hated Penn State - I just said I want them to lose football games. I feel the same way about your fellow Big Ten blowhards Ohio State and Michigan. Has nothing to do with the Sandusky scandal.
 
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Guess what? Child endangerment laws don't give a s--- who else you told about a child being sexually assaulted. Spanier made a conscious decision to break the law and not report Sandusky to law enforcement. For that he should go to prison, though he'll probably just keep running out the clock with motions and appeals. At least the other two had the decency to plead guilty, but Spanier's never taken responsibility for anything.

And I'm sorry but "mistakes were made" is lame terminology used by slobbering apologists. Mistakes weren't made. A person in a position of high authority made the decision to put his own reputation and legacy above his obligation to report a sexual predator to the proper authrorities. And no, I don't think Spanier was looking to protect Paterno - I think he was strictly looking out for himself.

And I didn't say I hated Penn State - I just said I want them to lose football games. I feel the same way about your fellow Big Ten blowhards Ohio State and Michigan. Has nothing to do with the Sandusky scandal.
I'm not apologizing for anyone. And I agree. Regardless of Mike's lack of actually seeing anything - spanier should have reported to cys. You have to do that to protect the university and the kid and he failed.
Not sure you knew this but when curley told the second mile what happened the only thing second mile told js to do was wear swim trunks. And mind you this org was responsible for the kids and they are the experts.
Not sure if you did but read my post above relative to what mike told his dad and dranov the night in question.
Thanks for clarifying your feelings. That is normal sports banter and I actually feel the same. I was actually hoping Penn State and Nebraska played the last game of the season every year. In the old days we played in some pretty huge games and as we both rise to prominence again that game could be pretty damn important.
However, nothing can take away from the other two kids and a Nebraska Penn State game could do just that.
 
Yes.
But they're not as awesome as they sound. Far as I can tell, you can't really do anything with them except wear them at a women's march.
that's too bad. my ears get cold and that sounded like a great solution.
 
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Hello guys. I know it's your board but since your commenting on Penn State I figured I'd chime in.
I'm not sure why jay should be banned or ostracized from doing what he wants to do with his life. And this is coming from someone who thought jay was an awful coach and recruiter. Does that really sound fair? I don't think any of us would punish innocent people because they had a family member do something bad. I think you guys understand that.
Additionally, and I'm not trying to convince anyone because you're entitled to your opinion as am I, but the admin trials are over. After five years, 22 charges, 14 of which were felonies, two admins pled guilty to one misdemeanor each and spanier was found guilty of one misdemeanor. He's appealing. The jury found no evidence of a cover-up. None. No felonies.
The misdemeanors were for reporting to second mile instead of cys. That was a mistake and I'm glad they accepted blame for it.
That said please read the excerpt below from a book by Joe Posnanski called "Paterno."
I would just ask you read it with an open mind. It deals with what mike reported. Thanks.
"The presentment, as such things do, made black and white what was a smoggy gray. When questioned, Mcqueary admitted that he did not see anything very clearly.He also said under oath that "out of respect," he had not used graphic terms and had not gone into much detail with Paterno. In this their memories coincided: Paterno said what Mcqueary told him was not even close in specifics or in brutality to what was in the presentment.
There is strong evidence that Mcqueary was much less certain about what he saw in the aftermath of the incident. According to testimony, that Friday night, after he left the Lasch Building, he went to his father's house to ask for advice. The two of them talked at some length, and then they called over a family friend, Dr. Jonathan Dranov. Dranov, a prominent doctor in the community, told Paterno family investigators in 2011, and a Pennsylvania jury in 2012, that Mcqueary said he heard some "sexual sounds" but could offer no more detail. Dranov said that three times he pressed Mcquery to describe what he actually saw, and three times Mcquery said that he did not see anything in the shower. Dranov conceded that Mcqueary might have been holding back; he too remembered just how upset Mcqueary was, which was why he kept pressing the issue. But at the end of the conversation Mcqueary continued to say that he did not see any act but that he heard those noises.
Dranov said Mcqueary's visual description was of a naked young boy, in the doorway of the shower. Mcqueary then said he saw an arm pull the boy back out of the way, and seconds later Sandusky walked around the corner with a towel wrapped around his waist. Dranov and the Mcquearys agreed that Mike had not seen enough to go to the police, and Dranov recommended that Mcqueary go to Paterno on that Saturday morning. Dranov conceded all those years later that, though the incident sounded bad, Sandusky's reputation as a community icon was still in tact. He said he never heard any rumors about Sandusky and that what Mcqueary had seen led to the possibility of a misunderstanding and "an innocent explanation."
Paterno would later say that if Mcqueary had told him he saw Sandusky raping a young boy, "We would have gone to the police right then and there, no questions asked."
End of except

I dont have an opinion on Jay. He didnt do anything wrong.
But honestly, after reading that, I feel sorry for you that you could come to the conclusion you have. Amazing the power sports can have on us.
 
I dont have an opinion on Jay. He didnt do anything wrong.
But honestly, after reading that, I feel sorry for you that you could come to the conclusion you have. Amazing the power sports can have on us.
Trust me. Sports didn't influence my opinion one iota. If I thought joe actually covered for js he would be dead to me. I would be disappointed but I would have no problem calling a spade a spade.
I'm not sure what you're getting at. If I came to you and said I thought I heard something weird but I didn't see anything what can we do about it.
Because Penn State had nothing to do with these kids they told second mile. These were second mile kids.
Moreover, even dranov and mike' s dad felt there was nothing to report to police based on what mike said. Are they part of some conspiracy. And mike was a 30 year old man. I think he knows how to call police if he witnessed something criminal. He didn't and that's why he didn't go to police.
 
Trust me. Sports didn't influence my opinion one iota. If I thought joe actually covered for js he would be dead to me. I would be disappointed but I would have no problem calling a spade a spade.
I'm not sure what you're getting at. If I came to you and said I thought I heard something weird but I didn't see anything what can we do about it.
Because Penn State had nothing to do with these kids they told second mile. These were second mile kids.
Moreover, even dranov and mike' s dad felt there was nothing to report to police based on what mike said. Are they part of some conspiracy. And mike was a 30 year old man. I think he knows how to call police if he witnessed something criminal. He didn't and that's why he didn't go to police.
The mere fact that Mike and his dad talked about this for so long and called someone else. And took it to JoPa. Is enough. They knew what was going on in there, they were covering their asses and so was Joe.
Like I said, I honestly feel bad for you. And i dont mean that in an insult kind of way. What you posted is actually quite astonishing.
 
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The mere fact that Mike and his dad talked about this for so long and called someone else. And took it to JoPa. Is enough. They knew what was going on in there, they were covering their asses and so was Joe.
Like I said, I honestly feel bad for you. And i dont mean that in an insult kind of way. What you posted is actually quite astonishing.
There was nothing to gain by covering for an ex coach he never liked. None. The story would have been embarrassing but he would have been a hero. Not sure why joe is hurt by what js does.
And you should think about what you're saying. I know it's more fun to believe in conspiracies and tear people down but you need facts.
This guy lived a pretty good life to throw it all away to cover-up child molestation for an ex coach he didn't like. This is the same guy that held his best players out of games for missing class.
The man donated millions to special Olympics and tried to help kids for 60 years, but on the quiet he's committing the worst crime imaginable. No. Why doesn't a man who lived a good life get any benefit of the doubt.
How could you read the above excerpt and come to the conclusion you're coming to. I just don't think you're allowing yourself to be open minded at all.
That said I appreciate your civility. On that note I'm turning in. Best wishes.
 
There was nothing to gain by covering for an ex coach he never liked. None. The story would have been embarrassing but he would have been a hero. Not sure why joe is hurt by what js does.
And you should think about what you're saying. I know it's more fun to believe in conspiracies and tear people down but you need facts.
This guy lived a pretty good life to throw it all away to cover-up child molestation for an ex coach he didn't like. This is the same guy that held his best players out of games for missing class.
The man donated millions to special Olympics and tried to help kids for 60 years, but on the quiet he's committing the worst crime imaginable. No. Why doesn't a man who lived a good life get any benefit of the doubt.
How could you read the above excerpt and come to the conclusion you're coming to. I just don't think you're allowing yourself to be open minded at all.
That said I appreciate your civility. On that note I'm turning in. Best wishes.
Ok. And you are letting everything above cloud your judgement.
Bye
 
Who cares whether Spanier was covering for Paterno? I've already said I don't think he gave a crap about protecting Paterno, but just wanted to protect his (largely self-proclaimed) image as a rising star in higher education. Spanier enabled a serial sexual predator - you don't get a pass for that even if your dad smacked you around or you gave money to charity.
 
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Jay Paterno elected to board of trustees - it's like Jonestown over there

http://www.espn.com/college-footbal...jay-paterno-elected-penn-state-board-trustees

Maybe Sandusky's son can be on the board too. What a sad disgrace to Ped State University. What did Joe Paterno Jr. know, and when did he know it?

“Having been in this profession a long time and knowing how close coaching staffs are, I knew that this was a secret that was kept secret,” Switzer said. “Everyone on that staff had to have known, the ones that had been around a long time.”

Those are chilling words. They are the most disturbing missives, not in a week filled with heinous reports and atrocious news, but read again what Switzer said. Everyone had to have known.

Everyone.
 
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Maybe Sandusky's son can be on the board too. What a sad disgrace to Ped State University. What did Joe Paterno Jr. know, and when did he know it?

“Having been in this profession a long time and knowing how close coaching staffs are, I knew that this was a secret that was kept secret,” Switzer said. “Everyone on that staff had to have known, the ones that had been around a long time.”

Those are chilling words. They are the most disturbing missives, not in a week filled with heinous reports and atrocious news, but read again what Switzer said. Everyone had to have known.

Everyone.
The jury who actually heard the facts of the case disagree. And I'll take their judgment over some guy using a rum runner like Barry as an authority. Barry Switzer. Lol.
And if you're a Catholic you had to know. And Barry should have known his thugs were basically doing whatever the hell they wanted.
Think of how stupid Barry sounds. As though js came into the office and talked about molesting kids. Smh. These guys hide what they do. And he ran a charity for kids so it was nothing to see him with kids.
But thanks for your contribution. Let us know if Barry has any more pearls of wisdom.
 
The jury who actually heard the facts of the case disagree. And I'll take their judgment over some guy using a rum runner like Barry as an authority. Barry Switzer. Lol.
And if you're a Catholic you had to know. And Barry should have known his thugs were basically doing whatever the hell they wanted.
Think of how stupid Barry sounds. As though js came into the office and talked about molesting kids. Smh. These guys hide what they do. And he ran a charity for kids so it was nothing to see him with kids.
But thanks for your contribution. Let us know if Barry has any more pearls of wisdom.

Shouldn't you have drunk your kool-aid by now?
 
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The jury who actually heard the facts of the case disagree. And I'll take their judgment over some guy using a rum runner like Barry as an authority. Barry Switzer. Lol.
And if you're a Catholic you had to know. And Barry should have known his thugs were basically doing whatever the hell they wanted.
Think of how stupid Barry sounds. As though js came into the office and talked about molesting kids. Smh. These guys hide what they do. And he ran a charity for kids so it was nothing to see him with kids.
But thanks for your contribution. Let us know if Barry has any more pearls of wisdom.
I was told why Sandusky retired early, at the peak of his career, by PSU alumni back in 1999/2000. People around the program knew it was no shocker.
 
I was told why Sandusky retired early, at the peak of his career, by PSU alumni back in 1999/2000. People around the program knew it was no shocker.
The peak of his career. Not even close. The peak of his career was 1986.
Penn State's defenses were average at best in the 90s. Even our friend Freeh said jerry's retirement had nothing to do with this situation.
He was never going to be head coach and he was around 60. He decided to devote his time to the charity and the state at that time did offer a retirement incentive as they are want to do.
I've been following Penn State football for a long time. Joe was well past his prime in 99 too. I donated money to second mile because I thought they were helping kids.
 
The peak of his career. Not even close. The peak of his career was 1986.
Penn State's defenses were average at best in the 90s. Even our friend Freeh said jerry's retirement had nothing to do with this situation.
He was never going to be head coach and he was around 60. He decided to devote his time to the charity and the state at that time did offer a retirement incentive as they are want to do.
I've been following Penn State football for a long time. Joe was well past his prime in 99 too. I donated money to second mile because I thought they were helping kids.
Wrong, Sandusky could have taken the Maryland job, they offered it to him but he had to turn it down.

It's down right disgusting and tragic you support your Jim JOnes prophet and his son who knew about it. Your a disgrace.
 
I really don't care about this topic anymore but it cracks me up when people are like "But wait...he said he just HEARD sex noises coming from the showers...and in the shower at the time was a 60 year old dude and a 10 year old boy...don't you get it? He only HEARD sex noises...he didn't SEE them...what was he supposed to do?" Come on.

Also, what do you think the sex noises were? If it sounded like sucking, jerking and kissing...well...wouldn't those sounds be enough?

"Mhmmm, Mhmmm, gurggle, gurggle, slurp slurp slurp, Mhmmmm, phhht, phhht...Mhmmm, slurp slurp"

So you hear that and know it is a 60 year old dude (naked) and and 10 year old boy (naked) and you don't think something is wrong?
 
Wrong, Sandusky could have taken the Maryland job, they offered it to him but he had to turn it down.

It's down right disgusting and tragic you support your Jim JOnes prophet and his son who knew about it. Your a disgrace.
Wrong. He was up for the Virginia job and he didn't get it. The guy who got it was a Virginia alum who was about to be fired from the jets, and I can't remember his name.
Your ability to screw up every single item relative to any story is what's a disgrace. You're a clueless sheep who think he knows something. Sit in judgement on yourself, or Barry since you hold him up as an authority.
 
Wrong. He was up for the Virginia job and he didn't get it. The guy who got it was a Virginia alum who was about to be fired from the jets, and I can't remember his name.
Your ability to screw up every single item relative to any story is what's a disgrace. You're a clueless sheep who think he knows something. Sit in judgement on yourself, or Barry since you hold him up as an authority.
Al Groh?
 
Wrong, Sandusky could have taken the Maryland job, they offered it to him but he had to turn it down.
Wrong. He was up for the Virginia job and he didn't get it. The guy who got it was a Virginia alum who was about to be fired from the jets, and I can't remember his name.
Your ability to screw up every single item relative to any story is what's a disgrace. You're a clueless sheep who think he knows something. Sit in judgement on yourself, or Barry since you hold him up as an authority.

I'm sure the Rival's PSU message boards back in 1999 mentioned the rumors. The FBI would be very interested in that if they wanted to look at them.
 
I really don't care about this topic anymore but it cracks me up when people are like "But wait...he said he just HEARD sex noises coming from the showers...and in the shower at the time was a 60 year old dude and a 10 year old boy...don't you get it? He only HEARD sex noises...he didn't SEE them...what was he supposed to do?" Come on.

Also, what do you think the sex noises were? If it sounded like sucking, jerking and kissing...well...wouldn't those sounds be enough?

"Mhmmm, Mhmmm, gurggle, gurggle, slurp slurp slurp, Mhmmmm, phhht, phhht...Mhmmm, slurp slurp"

So you hear that and know it is a 60 year old dude (naked) and and 10 year old boy (naked) and you don't think something is wrong?
John go to the cops and say you didn't see anything but you heard some noises. That will be an interesting interview. And then the cops will talk to good old Jerry who runs an at risk charity for boys. He'll say the kid is like his son and they worked out beforehand and were snapping towels and sliding on the floor. And then the kid in this case, which he did, would also say nothing happened.
When the story broke this kid was a 25 year old marine. He came forward and said he was the kid in the shower and nothing happened.
Anyway, because mike never said he saw an assault, the admins told the charity and those guys are all child care experts and mandated reporters. Now you can make stupid jokes all day but that's what happened, and the jury concurred.
If mike saw an assault you call the police, after you stop it. You don't call dad or tell the football coach. You tell the police.
 
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