Man, usually you have to pay a bunch of money to watch live as grown men piss on each other like this...
Fixing the talent gap, article from Dirk...
- Thread starter HBK4life
- Start date
Talent was not a problem? Geez. Anyone with an ounce of football sense could see that NU has a severe talent deficit.
You think the issue is all coaching?
Smells like an agenda
We were told? Are you, or are you not, having a conversation with me? I don't give a shit what anyone says in public, says to the media, or says at a public speaking event.
All three of those things have been majors concerns to anyone that watches husker football and has a brain. If you didn't ID them I can't help you.
Nah man. He's been hot like this for a long time. A solid history of garbage posting.
Nowhere near the epic Beav vs HTO battle(s?) I remember reading many moons ago, but maybe it just needs more time.
Yes, we were told by Mike Riley himself that the system would be tailored to the players. I'm not sure why that is a problem. I thought they did a good job of that this year. Now you're using that as some sort of bullet point about the system. Look, I'm trying to have a conversation, but you're incessant cursing leads me to think we are not.
The Hulk Hogan v Andre The Giant of our time.
Nope, I'm just on the other side of the fence is all.
Archie wants me to at least consider the talent argument, but in return, I want him to at least consider that there might be a coaching issue as well. I don't think he will do that.
Anyone that says talent wasn't discussed this season is trolling.
Anyone that says talent isn't an issue is trolling.
Carry on, I'm done reading this garbage.
Ummm. Of course they attempted to tailor the system.
But when you have an athlete playing QB, that can't make pre-snap reads, go through progressions on more than one quadrant of the field, and loves to go YOLO a few times a game, the 'system' issue remains. You call it an excuse. It's not. It's the reality of the situation when you make a massive overhaul to offensive philosophy and have to work with athletes recruited for the previous system.
I'm done. Bye.
I really don't recall seeing a lot of talent discussions during the season. I think it came up during the Oregon game and possibly the Ohio State game, but other than that, I don't think it was discussed much. I think it really became apparent when we had all the substitutes in for the bowl game. That's when all the talent talk started.
It came up after Iowa as well. This guy is a riot on twitter does a lot of the x's and o's
Funny how Iowa suddenly can't tackle against better athletes. Must not have practiced physical enough in bowl prep.
1:32 PM - 2 Jan 2017
Could be.. It seemed to me the first 7 games, everyone was pretty high on things.. then it was injury city, and we heard about injuries week after week. I guess it snowballed into a talent thing somewhere in there.It came up after Iowa as well. This guy is a riot on twitter does a lot of the x's and o's
R Kay@UnCommonSense00
Funny how Iowa suddenly can't tackle against better athletes. Must not have practiced physical enough in bowl prep.
1:32 PM - 2 Jan 2017
You have to back this story up though. At the end of last year, after we won 5 games, very few folks though we would be legit contenders for the division title. Some folks were moping in their "we hired a 500 coach and he won 5 games" misery, and other folks just looked at Wisconsin's schedule and thought we'd have to go damn near undefeated with a win in Wisconsin to do it.
When the folks who were moping over the 500 coach got out of their rut, they sort of immediately pendulumed into the "too much Kool Aid" column with everyone else of 7-0 start, and proclamations abounded of Riley better win this division right now or he's a chump.
20 yards in OT from doing so, they have pendulumed back into their funk, although any level headed analysis of our roster and injury situation probably doesn't put anywhere near as high or low as expectations as the fan base has held in 12 calendar months.
In other words, we're about on track given our overall situation. But the more emotionally unstable don't realize it. Jury is still out on Riley.
I could be wrong, but I think what most people were saying on this board for the first 7 games was:
1) These coaches are doing a good job of maximizing the talent we have, deficient as it might be
2) Our schedule is soft and we won't be tested until Wisconsin.
3) It is worrisome that although we are winning, we are doing so in an ugly fashion against weak teams.
4). But it is great to be 5-0, 6-0, 7-0, so let's just enjoy this ride while we can
Yeah, I'm not sure how to do that, other than to remember what it was like those first 7 games, and I know we questioned our talent prior to the Oregon game.
In all honesty, I think the Wisconsin game is what broke the back of the team. We had so many chances to win that game, and didn't. After that, it was like we just checked out, or some players checked out. To me, it's kind of a leadership thing, and I blame the coaches a bit more than others, but understand not everyone playing was recruited by them.
So while the deep dive goes into a talent issue, I look at the season as being partly a coaching/leadership thing. I don't think one can just point to the talent of the non-injured or non-redshirted players and say that was it.
If we had beat Wisconsin, things most likely would have been different. So, that's my argument in all this.
I am not buying the "we checked out after Wisconsin" line. We managed to beat a pretty good Minnesota team after the Wisky and OSU losses. I really think losing TA is what broke the will of this team. I think the players had zero confidence in Fyfe and with good reason. I think the players knew there was no way in hell that we would beat Iowa with TA playing on one leg, and no way we would beat Tennessee without TA. So at the first sign of adversity in both of those games... collapse. No leadership.
Yes, but maybe we agree that there was no leadership but disagree as to the cause?
I don't blame the coaches for this at all. Count me among those who say it was a leftover hangover from Pelini. We had some seniors with some seriously bad attitudes.
Yep, we differ there. I hold the coaches more responsible for developing the leadership on the team, at least more so in year two. To me, this was just as big a part of why things went south in the tail end of the season as injuries or any subsequent lack of talent. I don't have to have everyone agree with me, but I think it's worth at least people considering too.
Fair enough. And obviously the coaches have some responsibility in this too. But just like Gerry skipping classes, if there are four or five influential senior starters who were just dead set against these coaches, I don't see what the coaches could do, short of benching them. But benching them might backfire as well. I just think these coaches were put in a very bad situation.
Hold on pal, we don't if Riley's recruits will do much better.....and we don't know if he is a good coach..... that being said Pelini sucked.
Jay Foreman and Vrzal and those guys generally lay the blame with the players. Jay went basically so far as to say, its not really on the coaches at all. I find his segment interesting more often than not.
Those guys are a good listen. Seems weird that NG was named a captain, and then didn't even go to class. I don't know what all transpired down there, so from my viewpoint, I hold those in charge more accountable for what happened I guess.
He's a people person, dammit! And he's calmer than you are, dude!! Shomer Shabbas!!
Here is where I stand. Full disclosure. I was very disappointed when I heard we hired Mike Riley. My first thought was "who in the hell is Mike Riley?". Like many Husker fans I was hoping for that splash hire. Hell, I remember laughing out loud (literally) at the people on here who were saying we were going to hire Tressel. But the hope for a hire like that was there. It was palpable. We are all sooo desperate for NU to get back to elite status that when the Riley hire was announced it was a big deflation.
But I do not think many of us appreciate just how far down the rabbit hole of irrelevance we have become. We have all heard the mantra about how hard it is to recruit here now and we have all been pissed at that. But guess what? It is true. So you either better make that splash hire, OR you go out and hire a coach who can build something from the ground up. And that is what we did.
Will it work? I really and honestly have no idea. But I think it is just now beginning to dawn on many of us, me included, just how degraded our program has become. And so it is beginning to sink in that Riley is going to have to be given at least four years to show what he can do before we can even begin to make a judgment as to whether or not he can be successful here.
But I do not think many of us appreciate just how far down the rabbit hole of irrelevance we have become. We have all heard the mantra about how hard it is to recruit here now and we have all been pissed at that. But guess what? It is true. So you either better make that splash hire, OR you go out and hire a coach who can build something from the ground up. And that is what we did.
Will it work? I really and honestly have no idea. But I think it is just now beginning to dawn on many of us, me included, just how degraded our program has become. And so it is beginning to sink in that Riley is going to have to be given at least four years to show what he can do before we can even begin to make a judgment as to whether or not he can be successful here.
yes, variations on this theme.
People's idea of how you can magically just show up and win someplace is baffling. Taking over a program that has had mediocre recruiting for years and then managed to lose a bunch of the best players of those mediocre classes is like showing up 1/4 of the way into a train derailment. You can start trying to put those front cars back on the tracks right away, but those back cars are still moving and they're gonna have their turn going off the rails and making the whole situation worse before it gets better.
That's how bad recruiting years and sanctions keep hurting teams for years. A crappy class hurts more and more as years 3, 4 and 5 roll around.
I counted 11 guys in the 2011 class that I knew for sure didn't play 4 years for NU or I wasn't even sure who they were. The 2012 class had 17 kids in it total. 2013 had 25 but was riddled with flame-outs.
Teams below the scholarship limit don't win a lot of trophies. They just don't.
Riley's recruits from his first class that was all his own will be redshirt freshmen next year. Redshirt freshmen. And people are ready to just close the book on the whole experiment like the guy can't coach a lick. People who get paid to know this stuff have told you every way there is to tell you that the talent in the program is depleted. Including Boyd Eppley who measures it with freaking sports science and flat out said there was only a handful of guys on that team who tested at a level that could have cut it back in the "glory days."
They found a way to get 9 wins out of an OL full of sprained-ankled walk-ons and a QB who is a 55% career passer. Win #10 was within reach at Wisconsin, where "big name" Les Miles took a loss with much better players. Let's stop acting like the coaches have taken this collection of world-beating talent and coached 'em down for 2 years.
That's how bad recruiting years and sanctions keep hurting teams for years. A crappy class hurts more and more as years 3, 4 and 5 roll around.
I counted 11 guys in the 2011 class that I knew for sure didn't play 4 years for NU or I wasn't even sure who they were. The 2012 class had 17 kids in it total. 2013 had 25 but was riddled with flame-outs.
Teams below the scholarship limit don't win a lot of trophies. They just don't.
Riley's recruits from his first class that was all his own will be redshirt freshmen next year. Redshirt freshmen. And people are ready to just close the book on the whole experiment like the guy can't coach a lick. People who get paid to know this stuff have told you every way there is to tell you that the talent in the program is depleted. Including Boyd Eppley who measures it with freaking sports science and flat out said there was only a handful of guys on that team who tested at a level that could have cut it back in the "glory days."
They found a way to get 9 wins out of an OL full of sprained-ankled walk-ons and a QB who is a 55% career passer. Win #10 was within reach at Wisconsin, where "big name" Les Miles took a loss with much better players. Let's stop acting like the coaches have taken this collection of world-beating talent and coached 'em down for 2 years.
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Maybe he has a plan, as you say. But not having bodies will not be solved by high school 2-3 star recruits. We better start improving the recruiting success
Wow, another rocket science article from the OWH that we need more talent. They don't pay their journalists enough.
This is amazing... I thought 2 and 3 star recruits would be fine overall.
So glad you cleared this up. I better start worrying now.
Auburn 2008 5-7, new coach in 2009 and in 2010 14-0 and won the BCS. Same school, 2012 3-9 record, 2013 new coach 12-2 record, and spot in BCS title game. Same school did it with two different coaches.
Meyer took Ohio State from 6-7 in 2011 to 12-0 in 2012.
Brady Hoke took at 7-6 2010 Michigan team and went 11-2 in 2011 and won a Sugar Bowl. Then he goes 5-7 in 2014 and Harbaugh does pretty much the same thing in 2015 and even better in 2016.
Snyder in his second stint at K-State took over a 5-7 team in 2009 and by 2011 and 2012 he was back to back double digit wins and in Cotton and Fiesta bowls.
Charlie Strong at Louisvill took over a 4-8 team and by 2012 had a 11-2 team and 12-1 in 2013 and a Sugar Bowl win.
Brian Kelly took over a mess at ND and was in a BCS title game in year 3.
Matt Rhule at Temple. 4-7 in 2012 and by year 3 10-4 and in 2016 same record with a conference title.
PJ Fleck to over a W Mich program that was 4-8 in 2012 and 1-11 in his first year 2013. By 2016 in a New Years 6 bowl and a conference title and undefeated regular season.
These are just some example of quick turnarounds in the last couple of years. Now most coaches that take over teams fail and are out after 5-7 years or even sooner. Also what is funny is some of the coaches that have had great turnarounds also had great flameouts, Hoke and Chizik. But don't say it can't be done or has never been done because it is just not true.
Year 3 is big for Riley, it change is coming this may be the year that there has to be some type of break out season.
FTR, we have no 2* so far this year (we have 10 3* and 5 4*), and had one 2* last year, who is now our starting punter.
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