Finishing out Recruiting...

[Harry Caray]

Good point. We mashed 88th ranked-against-the-run ucla good, didn't we?

So let me get this straight... Because we beat ucla we should have beaten every team on our schedule? If you're satisfied with our talent level, then by all means keep flaming.

Good point. We mashed Purdue's 108th-ranked-against-the-run defense, didn't we? Oh wait, we decided to air it out 48 times with a backup QB. Please tell me which of the mighty Big Ten West teams we were not talented enough to beat?

Never mind, Riley deserves a raise for winning ONE game in the West Division this year. Not sure even Saban could have done that with this roster of pansies.

 

[sparky62]

start by recruiting well enough to win the division consistently and then build from there

no reason we cant recruit as well or better than Iowa, Minne, Wisc, Illinois, NW, Purdue

From what I've seen so far MR & Co. are doing just that. They are busting ass out there. This year & the next 2 are will have a big impact. Get a few big uglies, and a few skill positions and watch the chips fall.

 

[GermanicHusker]

From what I've seen so far MR & Co. are doing just that. They are busting ass out there. This year & the next 2 are will have a big impact. Get a few big uglies, and a few skill positions and watch the chips fall.

If they are actually busting their respective asses out there, why is nothing happening? I am thinking Nebraska will get a many "big uglies" and our recruiting results will be less than what we saw during the Pelini era.

Over/Under on Nebraska finishing in the top 25? I'm going with +6.

 

[timnsun]

Good point. We mashed Purdue's 108th-ranked-against-the-run defense, didn't we? Oh wait, we decided to air it out 48 times with a backup QB. Please tell me which of the mighty Big Ten West teams we were not talented enough to beat?

Never mind, Riley deserves a raise for winning ONE game in the West Division this year. Not sure even Saban could have done that with this roster of pansies.

I'm not gonna argue with you about Purdue. We should have run the ball often. We shouldn't have aired it out. Purdue was a coaching nightmare for our coaches.

As I said in an earlier post, I agree that we had enough talent to win the west, even win every game on our schedule. But there's a big difference between can and will. On talent alone Alabama should never lose, but they seem to lose a game or two every year. That must mean the coaching is suspect in those games huh? How else do you explain it?

And spare me the raise crap. Point out one poster on this board that says the coaches deserve a raise. You can't.

Why is it so hard to say both coaching and talent need to improve? Why must you put it all on coaching? I'll ask again... Are you really satisfied with our talent? Do we have the depth we need? Just try to be objective and set aside your disdain for coach Riley and company. Admit it's a combination of things, if you can do that. I'm just not sure you can, judging by your recent posting history.

 

[timnsun]

If they are actually busting their respective asses out there, why is nothing happening? I am thinking Nebraska will get a many "big uglies" and our recruiting results will be less than what we saw during the Pelini era.

Over/Under on Nebraska finishing in the top 25? I'm going with +6.

You might be right. It's easy to make predictions.

But just because we don't see recruits pulling the trigger right now doesn't mean nothing is happening. Remember, the coaches can't do much at the moment... It is a dead period after all. If we do better than your prediction, I guess that would mean something was happening after all. We'll just have to wait and see.

 

[sparky62]

Your point about an innovative offense seems hollow. We've seen you laud the Harbaugh-esque hires (ie the big names), but Harbaugh doesn't have an innovative offense. Oregon's offense is so imitated by now (from high schools to D1) that its hardly cutting edge anymore. Even TA can run read-option part time, its so rote. Largely that comment seems code for "bring back the option", which is cool, but not so much innovative. Its a 50 year old offense.

I don't think anyone needs 5 star talent across the board to win with the current offense. We do need a QB who makes good decisions (but this could be said of many offenses).

Our most potent passing offense had a three headed monster of 2* Ganz, 3* Swift, and walk-on Peterson.

Even with a TO machine at QB we averaged like what 33 ppg? Scoring points has not generally been a huge problem.

You don't need to spend 2 million on a DC. Foster only makes like 1.1 million and he's as good as they come.

That would make a huge difference especially if they could do it on a consistent basis.

 

[SnohomishRed]

Your point about an innovative offense seems hollow. We've seen you laud the Harbaugh-esque hires (ie the big names), but Harbaugh doesn't have an innovative offense. Oregon's offense is so imitated by now (from high schools to D1) that its hardly cutting edge anymore. Even TA can run read-option part time, its so rote. Largely that comment seems code for "bring back the option", which is cool, but not so much innovative. Its a 50 year old offense.

I don't think anyone needs 5 star talent across the board to win with the current offense. We do need a QB who makes good decisions (but this could be said of many offenses).

Our most potent passing offense had a three headed monster of 2* Ganz, 3* Swift, and walk-on Peterson.

Even with a TO machine at QB we averaged like what 33 ppg? Scoring points has not generally been a huge problem.

You don't need to spend 2 million on a DC. Foster only makes like 1.1 million and he's as good as they come.

1. Harbaugh esque ? - Yes if we have the ability to bring in top ten classes each year you can run a Harbaugh offense or whatever offense you want - if you cannot bring in these type of classes you need to run an offense you can recruit to. I do not care what it is and it could even be a Leach type offense but my preference is heavy run yes
2. Ganz - Swift and Peterson - Ganz was a turnover machine - if you hated TA gunslinging you should have hated Ganz doing the same. Also we were ranked 43rd in scoring offense so its not exactly like they performing at an extremely high level and the turnovers also negated much of that
3. Foster is not here is he. I think the Aranda hire shows there is acceleration in assistant salaries especially proven DC's - if we can get one for $500,000 great but he will just be hired away. If we can get one for 1,000,000 thats great to but someone else may be ready to pay more - Aranda was hired for 1.3 million in a contract with an escalation clause

 

[huskerfan1414]

I'm not gonna argue with you about Purdue. We should have run the ball often. We shouldn't have aired it out. Purdue was a coaching nightmare for our coaches.

As I said in an earlier post, I agree that we had enough talent to win the west, even win every game on our schedule. But there's a big difference between can and will. On talent alone Alabama should never lose, but they seem to lose a game or two every year. That must mean the coaching is suspect in those games huh? How else do you explain it?

And spare me the raise crap. Point out one poster on this board that says the coaches deserve a raise. You can't.

Why is it so hard to say both coaching and talent need to improve? Why must you put it all on coaching? I'll ask again... Are you really satisfied with our talent? Do we have the depth we need? Just try to be objective and set aside your disdain for coach Riley and company. Admit it's a combination of things, if you can do that. I'm just not sure you can, judging by your recent posting history.

The reason we did not win a national or big ten championship this year was because of coaching and talent, you are right and we agree.
The reason we did not beat BYU, Illinois, Purdue, and Iowa was because of coaching.
we don't have the talent to win all our games or championships. But the coaching this year was abysmal outside of a few games, I'm sorry it just was and I'm not going to say it's okay because it isn't.
Spare me the tommy and Ryker comment. They don't average 35 attempts a game with good coaching.

 

[newAD]

Ganz - Swift and Peterson - Ganz was a turnover machine - if you hated TA gunslinging you should have hated Ganz doing the same.

Uh, Ganz's career 585 passing attempts and 18 interceptions, and a 65% completion percentage.

TA in 2015, 402 attempts, 16 interceptions, 55% completion percentage.

Hmmmmm.

 

[timnsun]

The reason we did not win a national or big ten championship this year was because of coaching and talent, you are right and we agree.
The reason we did not beat BYU, Illinois, Purdue, and Iowa was because of coaching.
we don't have the talent to win all our games or championships. But the coaching this year was abysmal outside of a few games, I'm sorry it just was and I'm not going to say it's okay because it isn't.
Spare me the tommy and Ryker comment. They don't average 35 attempts a game with good coaching.

I will give you Illinois and Purdue. But BYU and Iowa I won't blame exclusively on coaching. It was a combination of things. Won't convince me otherwise.

Also, when did I say anything about Ryker and Tommy? I think you may have confused me with another poster...

 

[huskerfan1414]

I get that people are jaded by Bo. He was very bad and lazy at recruiting and was a maniac. But it seems now that as long as the staff works hard and is nice, that's good enough. I'm sorry but that attitude isn't goin to get us to where we need to be.
I'm not saying fire Riley and I'm not saying he can't turn it around. I don't think he will, but he will get the chance. But if our new standard is "you dont know how hard this staff is working...working so much harder than Bo he was such a crap ass" then please pay me a million dollars cuz I'll work my ass off on the recruiting trail too, just like 75% of the college coaches we are competing against. (I'll even run the ball when it makes sense to as a bonus).

 

[huskerfan1414]

I will give you Illinois and Purdue. But BYU and Iowa I won't blame exclusively on coaching. It was a combination of things. Won't convince me otherwise.

Also, when did I say anything about Ryker and Tommy? I think you may have confused me with another poster...

Seriously....BYU? Wow, I don't mean any offense, but if you can't understand the poor clock management in the fourth I dunno if you actually watch the games, but touché.
And you never did, it's just that they get thrown around a lot. And I agree they are not good, but the ucla game was a formula for success and good coaching would not have put them in situations to fail when it didn't need to happen or even when it didn't make sense even if you had a great QB.

 

[timnsun]

I get that people are jaded by Bo. He was very bad and lazy at recruiting and was a maniac. But it seems now that as long as the staff works hard and is nice, that's good enough. I'm sorry but that attitude isn't goin to get us to where we need to be.
I'm not saying fire Riley and I'm not saying he can't turn it around. I don't think he will, but he will get the chance. But if our new standard is "you dont know how hard this staff is working...working so much harder than Bo he was such a crap ass" then please pay me a million dollars cuz I'll work my ass off on the recruiting trail too, just like 75% of the college coaches we are competing against. (I'll even run the ball when it makes sense to as a bonus).

When you say it like that you are making it sound like Riley is clueless about recruiting, but he works hard at it. That's flat out ridiculous!

EVERYTHING I have read is about his organizational skills pertaining to recruiting and his people skills as well. He's relatable. He can sell the program better than Bo ever could, and likely not as well as Callahan ever did. But he's not Big Tom Callahan. He can't sell a ketchup Popsicle to a woman in white gloves (hope I got my tommy boy reference correct). You don't want to hear this, but you need to give him time. That may be his best tactic. By most accounts 2017 will be better than 2016... Will that trend continue? Remains to be seen.

I've already lamented this in so many threads... Why judge him before the recruiting cycle is done?

 

[timnsun]

Seriously....BYU? Wow, I don't mean any offense, but if you can't understand the poor clock management in the fourth I dunno if you actually watch the games, but touché.
And you never did, it's just that they get thrown around a lot. And I agree they are not good, but the ucla game was a formula for success and good coaching would not have put them in situations to fail when it didn't need to happen or even when it didn't make sense even if you had a great QB.

I never saw the second half of the BYU game. But even if I did, BYU won on a fluke play at the end of the game that many NFL teams have lost on this year as well. Was that bad coaching there as well?

We ran on ucla because we could. Should have done the same thing to Purdue. Maybe we could have on other teams as well... But we also saw many teams stuff our run, including BYU from what I had heard at the time.

You can argue we should have run the clock down more and you would have a valid point. But again, these new coaches had us in a position to win that game with one play remaining. You act as if we had a coaching staff and team that went hand in glove with each other when they really didn't. They have learned over the course of the season what needs to be done. But yeah, once again, you are right. BYU loss was all coaching. Guess that makes me wonder if you ever watch the games... Touché.

 

[huskerfan1414]

Obviously you didn't read all of my post, and it seems we have different standards for different coaches now.
For the love of God...we should not be comparing our current coach to Bo friggin Pelini. That is like comparing the smell of something against the smell of my wet fart after eating taco johns. Of course that something is going to smell better than my turd, it doesn't mean it smells good.
Go back and read my post...especially the part about time. But I will judge this coach in the past and present always, just as I would for any coach and just like I will do in the future.

 

[huskerfan1414]

I never saw the second half of the BYU game. But even if I did, BYU won on a fluke play at the end of the game that many NFL teams have lost on this year as well. Was that bad coaching there as well?

We ran on ucla because we could. Should have done the same thing to Purdue. Maybe we could have on other teams as well... But we also saw many teams stuff our run, including BYU from what I had heard at the time.

You can argue we should have run the clock down more and you would have a valid point. But again, these new coaches had us in a position to win that game with one play remaining. You act as if we had a coaching staff and team that went hand in glove with each other when they really didn't. They have learned over the course of the season what needs to be done. But yeah, once again, you are right. BYU loss was all coaching. Guess that makes me wonder if you ever watch the games... Touché.

Regarding BYU, you are right the last play was not due to coaching.
But with good coaching our players would not have been in position to err and their players would not have been in position to luck out.
Who cares if they were stuffing the run (I'd argue that heavily but it doesn't matter), had our coaches had high school competence that game, the play doesn't happen and nebraska wins.
Dude, I like the parting shot about wondering if I ever watch the games especially since you admitted you didn't watch the 2nd half of the BYU game, making my initial post correct.

 

[timnsun]

Obviously you didn't read all of my post, and it seems we have different standards for different coaches now.
For the love of God...we should not be comparing our current coach to Bo friggin Pelini. That is like comparing the smell of something against the smell of my wet fart after eating taco johns. Of course that something is going to smell better than my turd, it doesn't mean it smells good.
Go back and read my post...especially the part about time. But I will judge this coach in the past and present always, just as I would for any coach and just like I will do in the future.

Nice. Never said you said anything about Bo. I just threw that in there to say we are in better hands now...

So I will start the petition now to make you recruiting coordinator. You're a hard worker, and that's all that's needed... (Man, the ignorance of some people to think they can do it better)

And thanks for the heads up about your taco johns farts. It's good to be forewarned.

 

[huskerfan1414]

Nice. Never said you said anything about Bo. I just threw that in there to say we are in better hands now...

So I will start the petition now to make you recruiting coordinator. You're a hard worker, and that's all that's needed... (Man, the ignorance of some people to think they can do it better)

And thanks for the heads up about your taco johns farts. It's good to be forewarned.

I know I didnt. My point stands. Yes, we are better off doesn't mean we are well off.
I never said I could do it better! I obviously can't which is why I used myself to make the point that we should expect more than simply working hard since a lot of people can work hard.
I hold the six pack and a pound record amongst my friends. It was a smelly deed.

 

[timnsun]

Regarding BYU, you are right the last play was not due to coaching.
But with good coaching our players would not have been in position to err and their players would not have been in position to luck out.
Who cares if they were stuffing the run (I'd argue that heavily but it doesn't matter), had our coaches had high school competence that game, the play doesn't happen and nebraska wins.
Dude, I like the parting shot about wondering if I ever watch the games especially since you admitted you didn't watch the 2nd half of the BYU game, making my initial post correct.

yeah, I guess you're right. It's all coaching.

Look, I get what your saying, but even with bad coaching we still win that game 99% of the time. if they run the clock out the last play never happens. But my understanding of how the game ended down the stretch was snapping the ball with 4 and 5 seconds on the clock not 2 or 3... Correct?

Blame the coaches 100%. That's fine. I choose not to hold them 100% responsible. Can you respect that or do I have to yield to your superior football intellect?

 

[timnsun]

I know I didnt. My point stands. Yes, we are better off doesn't mean we are well off.
I never said I could do it better! I obviously can't which is why I used myself to make the point that we should expect more than simply working hard since a lot of people can work hard.
I hold the six pack and a pound record amongst my friends. It was a smelly deed.

I think we are talking past each other here. I believe that Riley is doing a pretty good job with recruiting all things considered. And I think he's only going to get better. A lot of it depends on how this class finishes, but there are many who don't want to wait for that to happen. If he signs these big names that we're in on we could easily finish in the top 20. No maybe we don't hit that. But I bristle when people question his recruiting. Granted, maybe I shouldn't compare him to Palini. It's hard not to. But I believe he's more than just a hard worker. A lot more. And hopefully the results will show that in time.

 

[timnsun]

I know I didnt. My point stands. Yes, we are better off doesn't mean we are well off.
I never said I could do it better! I obviously can't which is why I used myself to make the point that we should expect more than simply working hard since a lot of people can work hard.
I hold the six pack and a pound record amongst my friends. It was a smelly deed.

BTW, how did you survive the six pack and a pound? That Must have been brutal…

 

[Tulsa Tom]

I never saw the second half of the BYU game.

Go watch it. I know you said your mind cannot be changed, but I encourage you to watch the clock management over the last few possessions. If they don't have time for a hail mary attempt, they can't win the game.

 

[lovetheskers]

The fact is we are making assumptions at this point. Happy or not happy the class isn't finished. We will all have a lot more to say in the next couple weeks. Plus when you get em. You have to coach em and keep them in the program.( I will point out the number of 4 star and high 3 stArs that transferred under Bo). Truth is we might not know if this is a good class for a couple years.

 

[timnsun]

Go watch it. I know you said your mind cannot be changed, but I encourage you to watch the clock management over the last few possessions. If they don't have time for a hail mary attempt, they can't win the game.

I really don't want to...

I understand that we didn't kill clock. I get that completely, and if we would have, they don't have a Hail Mary. Having said that, I still say it was dumb luck that they won on that play. I can't argue that if the clock is at :00, they can't run a final play. absolutely true.

You might be right, maybe I change my mind if I watch the second half...

Edit: I admit, I may be bull-headed on this.

 

[dinglefritz]

Your point about an innovative offense seems hollow. We've seen you laud the Harbaugh-esque hires (ie the big names), but Harbaugh doesn't have an innovative offense. Oregon's offense is so imitated by now (from high schools to D1) that its hardly cutting edge anymore. Even TA can run read-option part time, its so rote. Largely that comment seems code for "bring back the option", which is cool, but not so much innovative. Its a 50 year old offense.

I don't think anyone needs 5 star talent across the board to win with the current offense. We do need a QB who makes good decisions (but this could be said of many offenses).

Our most potent passing offense had a three headed monster of 2* Ganz, 3* Swift, and walk-on Peterson.

Even with a TO machine at QB we averaged like what 33 ppg? Scoring points has not generally been a huge problem.

You don't need to spend 2 million on a DC. Foster only makes like 1.1 million and he's as good as they come.

The key to the success of this recruiting class and maybe the next 4 years is the QB as it has been for ever. Without Tommie Frazier where were we? Without Scott Frost where were we? It all starts in the trenches but if you don't have a difference maker at QB you never reach that top tier of teams. We've got some help coming for the defense and IF we can land an OT or two we are going to be good to go.

 

[nebcountry]

The key to the success of this recruiting class and maybe the next 4 years is the QB as it has been for ever. Without Tommie Frazier where were we? Without Scott Frost where were we? It all starts in the trenches but if you don't have a difference maker at QB you never reach that top tier of teams. We've got some help coming for the defense and IF we can land an OT or two we are going to be good to go.

I consider the qb to be the most important position. I also consider recruiting to be like an assembly line. A hiccup in one year is going to be felt later down the line. Sean Mannion was drafted into the pro's, 3rd(?) round maybe. OrSU went 5-7 Mannion's last year. QB definitely important, but not the end-all.

We still have another month before recruiting is finished up.

 

[TheBeav815]

It's kinda amazing to me that EVERY time recruiting or coaching gets brought up, it eventually becomes necessary to explain that to be a consistently elite team, you need BOTH great coaching AND great recruits.

"Yeah well this one time a team with less talent won a game so that ain't true!" Ok, fine. You keep right on believing that and we'll keep fitting Nick Saban and Urban Meyer for rings while they finish up their top-5 classes.

 

[AndyHanline]

It's kinda amazing to me that EVERY time recruiting or coaching gets brought up, it eventually becomes necessary to explain that to be a consistently elite team, you need BOTH great coaching AND great recruits.

"Yeah well this one time a team with less talent won a game so that ain't true!" Ok, fine. You keep right on believing that and we'll keep fitting Nick Saban and Urban Meyer for rings while they finish up their top-5 classes.

Well said. I just love it when someone brings up the "stars don't matter" argument even though there is statistical data to prove otherwise.

 

[spinner4]

From what I've seen so far MR & Co. are doing just that. They are busting ass out there. This year & the next 2 are will have a big impact. Get a few big uglies, and a few skill positions and watch the chips fall.

Sparky I don't think anyone questions the hard work the staff is doing. I know these guys work hard. But life isn't fair. Hard work doesn't always payoff. There are no "nice tries" when you make the kind of $ these guys make. Results are what matter. It's sad and not the kind of guy I am at almost everything else, but in sports, all that matters is getting the job done.

 

[timnsun]

As a wise man once said: "Nice guys finish last."

Which wise man said that? Plenty of exceptions to that saying…

 

[timnsun]

But at least Nebraska is ranked #42 per rivals, sandwiched between Washington State and West Virginia. And closing the gap towards #37 Oregon State.

This sounds remarkably similar to former posters who have been banned... And this is your first day posting under this name? Hmmm...

 

[timnsun]

Obviously.

No offense, but I'm not gonna commit this new screen name to my memory... It'll change shortly, no doubt.

 

[huskerfan1414]

This sounds remarkably similar to former posters who have been banned... And this is your first day posting under this name? Hmmm...

When you can't debate the post...

 

[timnsun]

When you can't debate the post...

Check all the other threads I and others debated this post in. When newbies join just to say the same damn thing in nearly every thread I'm not gonna debate the post again.

Make sense?

Edit: not a newbie... Recycled poster. No proof, just the same exact thing said again and again...

 

[Tulsa Tom]

Scrambled eggs suck when they are not allowed to cook all the way. I don't want them overdone but I don't want them really runny. Also, you don't know how they are going to turn out 3/4 of the way into the process. You can really only decide how smoking good they are once you add the salt and pepper and take the first bite...AFTER THEY ARE DONE.

If Riley can't get us a top 20 class his full year out of the gate he deserves to be blasted. But signing day isn't here yet. Let the man finish the job.

 

[Laner2]

When you can't debate the post...

What post?

The guy is a collection of euphemisms looking for traction. He makes one rather inane post about NU's current class and that's it? (and the reason it's inane is because of all the bodies yet to fill in, the time left to do it and the four star kids looking at NU. Making snarky inferences about the class at this point is silly and/or trollish).

 

[Husker.Wed.]

Life is a lot more comfortable being habitually negative, it is a win-win situation. If somebody recycles tens, if not hundreds of posts that recruiting is doomed, Riley can't close, Hughes sucks, should have hired Ed O, etc. and we end up with a 30 or worse ranked class, the person is happy because he "knew it all along". If the 2016 class is good, maybe even in the high teens, that person will either post nothing, or come here and magnanimously post once (as in numero uno), "I was wrong and am man enough to admit it." He will then forget all about recruiting and look for the next flaw to use as ammunition to further his agenda. Win-win.

Being positive is much harder since having hope and then being disappointed is harder emotionally than having no hope and being pleasantly surprised.

 

[Tulsa Tom]

Being positive is much harder since having hope and then being disappointed is harder emotionally than having no hope and being pleasantly surprised.

No, it actually easier to be positive. All you have to do is move the goal posts where every you want and you can be happy. In recruiting there will be a number of people that will be positive here at #25-#30 If you asked if this was acceptable last summer, nearly everyone would have said no.

 

[Husker.Wed.]

No, it actually easier to be positive. All you have to do is move the goal posts where every you want and you can be happy. In recruiting there will be a number of people that will be positive here at #25-#30 If you asked if this was acceptable last summer, nearly everyone would have said no.

Interesting perspective, I'll think about it. Speaking only for myself, I was fairly happy with our 2013 #17 class and said so here, and angry about the #32 2014 class, and said so here. I suspect I will feel the same way about a Riley #17 class or a Riley #32 class and say so here. There are other things I will give a guy a break on in year 2 than a guy in year 7, and I don't consider that moving goal posts.