Sitting back and relaxing is a bunch of BS....We have a 64 year old coach who hasn't won anything, ever. How is he supposed to recruit against Meyer, Harbaugh, Crist...all young, vibrant, championship coaches. Don't forget we are paying these coaches millions to lose to a team that we paid to play us. And we deserve to be 0-3...Arkansas State turned it over multiple times inside the red zone. If a roofer making 12 dollars an hour had such outcomes all on this board would agree that he should be fired, but a retired man making 3 million a year, somehow gets a pass. Why? These guys make millions to work miracles, they don't 5 years and 15 million to turn a program around...it needs to happen by now. By year 3 we should have depth at most locations, our experienced areas should be playing at or above expectations, and our inexperienced positions should grow every week. The previous coach is not an excuse, Riley should have stocked up on Jucos if our depth is so bad, or be playing younger players. At this point we should be 3-0, with an efficient qb, good run game, great kicker, and a developing defense. Staff needs to go. If we go 8-1 in the big 10 we only finish 9-4 after a championship game spanking by the east team. That is best possible outcome at this point. Not good enough.
Drama, Drama, Everywhere...
- Thread starter DudznSudz
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I think Shawn's knowledge of Riley was from his experience with Chryst during his time at Wisconsin. I am not so sure there was a ton of consulting during the search. I would agree that there is a bit of a conflict of that was the case.
Nebraska had a winning formula. Run the ball and play physical. Not sure why they wanted to move away from that winning formula. Having an identity on offense is important I think to long term success.
Riley may be a good coach but somehow he is not making the connection to the team it takes to be great. The buzz is we are soft in practice and it shows in games.....frankly if true SE should KNOW it and get it fixed or fire Riley now.
As Pelini said on his way out - SE is a lawyer and doesn't know what is going on day to day within the football team.
As Pelini said on his way out - SE is a lawyer and doesn't know what is going on day to day within the football team.
So beating losing teams and mac teams at home = championships. Ok, got it.
Seriously wtf. It's not even in the same world.
Lots of folks like tilting at windmills on here. They complain that fans are entitled when they want championships right away. Then, when people say, "It's not acceptable to lose to Mac teams with 2nd string qbs and losing records the year before" they say, "See, the fans are entitled."
I think we agree but your hedging that Mike "may be a good coach" caught my attention.
Mike Riley's 14 years at OSU produced a .538 winning pct.
Mike Riley's 03 years at Neb has produced a .630.(8-4 is .666)
Mike Riley's combined .pct at OSU & Neb is .540(7-5 is .583).
Do people understand that when coach Riley has a 7-5 season, he's actually exceeding his lifetime average.
Contrast that to
Urban Meyer, in his 6th season at Ohio St. is .900 and was .813 at Florida for 6 seasons before Michigan.
Jim Harbaugh, in his 3rd season at Michigan is .793
I think we agree, just clarifying what "good coach" means cuz however "nice" coach Riley is, I wouldn't call that good. If you put it on a bell curve, It would probably fall in the average range.
And yet, with the numbers staring people in the face, they seem to hold onto a belief system that thinks average performers will somehow become ELITE, just because they come to Lincoln.
And for those who think recruiting is so much better than it was under BO, please check the #'s because they are NOT! I'm not a big star rating guy, but to compare apples to apples, just going by the rivals rankings, BO's classes were slightly better at this point in time.
Now I would love to see Mike Riley put a team on the field that would make us all proud. However, it would be an anomaly, imho.
I have some sympathy for Mike Riley. He was offered the job and did what any of us would have done. imho, the people responsible for the current state of Nebraska football are Harvey Perlman & Sean Eichorst.
Is it fair for someone to think, before all of this started with Riley, that maybe the facilities, tradition, fan support, resources, etc. might help an average coach become an above average coach? Because that is what we are talking about here.
I don't understand why some coaches are viewed as average no matter where they coached (Mike Riley) and other coaches are known as good coaches At lesser universities s (Saban at MSU, who was 58.6 winning percentage there).
Why didn't Hawkins' winning ways at Boise State transfer to Colorado, where he was horrible?
Looking at it now it seems apparent Riley isn't what us "sunshine pumpers" were expecting (someone who could succeed in a new culture and environment).
I just get tired of the brainiacs who say, "What did you expect when you hire a career 54% winner?" I expected being here would benefit Riley more and allow him to build a team we could be proud of, one that competes for championships. But to say we should have known is disingenuous when you look at other coaches who have succeeded, or bombed, in new environments.
In Saban's case I'd say improvement is the reason why. Over the course of time he's gotten better and everywhere he's gone has improved, now he's at the pinnacle of the college football world at a big time program.
As for Hawkins, I think the suspicions of many are clear that Chris Peterson was the reason for success at Boise State.
I get that, but that's hindsight, especially for Hawkins. And after 4 seasons for Saban at MSU, there were a .500 team... it was his last year where they really took a leap and he went 9-2. If he was judged on his first 4 years he would look no different than Riley does now.
The point is, people who claim Riley was never gonna do better than 54% act like it's clear and anybody who thought otherwise is a moron. All I'm saying is it isn't that cut and dried. Look at Rodriguez at W. Virginia, where he was quite successful, and then at Michigan, where he bombed. There really isn't any rhyme or reason to it. There are very few sure things in college football.
Understood. Those who tried to be positive about the MR hire could have hoped that a new environment with a traditional power would be a win-win for both. I tried to be that guy but it simply is not happening. I don't see this getting any better and expect SE and MR to be gone before the end of the year.
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When Saban took over at MSU they were on NCAA sanctions and hadn't had a winning season in 5 years. Much different expectations. We should aim higher than 1990s Michigan State.
And I get that. Again, the point I'm making is where a person coaches can make a difference as well. To think Riley could be successful here with all we have to offer isn't a moronic thing to think. He is proving that thinking wrong right now, but at the time he was hired it wasn't an unreasonable expectation to have that he would get better.
Don't get it twisted. The playing for and the winning of championships wasn't tied to the Northern Illinois game.
The landscape of college football has changed dramatically in the last 20 years. Nebraska has made mistake after mistake in hiring football coaches and has fallen behind the rest of the country. The mistakes of the past have made the job less attractive unless you go with a guy with ties to Nebraska. People still believe that if you pay enough money that great coaches are going to leave their current position to jump at the chance to coach at Nebraska, because it's Nebraska. That isn't the case anymore.
2018 we will have to be a good team to win 6 - right now, it's a 2-3 win schedule
this is true ... I don't think an established "home run" is going to come to Nebraska ...
the coaching pool will consist of midmajor head coaches and power 5 assistants. The good news is that at one time most, if not all, of the home run guys started in one of those roles. There are no guarantees in this pool of coaches and the only test of whether a hire was good or not is 3-8 years down the road. Given this our "home run" or at least "extra base hit" might by Riley (will have to see how this year plays out - it is no secret I am not optimistic given the first quarter of the season) or it might be the next hire or the next hire or the next hire. It doesn't mean you stop looking or hold on to a hire that has demonstrated that he isn't the right guy ( I realize this will be subjective). It also means you can't pass judgement at the time of an initial hire as there are just too many variables and unknowns as to who will or will not be successful.
The challenge for Nebraska will be once we think we have our guy are we willing to keep him. Nebraska may no longer be a destination job - the time for the big money to come out is when we have a highly successful coach and a Texas or Florida or LSU starts inquiring. Are we willing to exceed what some of these programs will offer.
No one is saying that just you - This is a job for these coaches, if you make their job high enough paying then yes you attract better people simple reasoning. Now if Nebraska is paying the same as another school then depending on the school our name doesnt hold as much water anymore.
Right now our head coach is ranked #42 in pay - our assistant coaches salary pool is in the 20 to 25 range. Now if you think paying these numbers are going to attract top coaching because of our name then you are right and honestly that is the mistake the AD has made.
NU is a has been power with high expectations in a small state - If we want top coaches there are three options #1 pay top dollar for an up and coming coach ( meaning we need to pay more to this coach than an SEC school would) #2, pay top dollar for someone with ties to the program ie Frost. #3 Pay top dollar to lure an established coach with an established winning record but with damage ie what Louisville did with Petrino, or possibly Mike Leach wants out of the hell hole of Eastern washington
Now that I have stated that I was never in favor of the Riley hire, I will pile on.
I think Eichorst tried to get the home run and couldn't get him so he was stuck. He just fired a coach that was, for the most part, respected by and popular with his players and was winning games. Hiring a first time head coach would have been a huge mistake. There were way too many issues that an inexperienced coach could have totally lost a team early. I think that is why a guy like Herman wasn't looked at. As it turns out, the experienced coach also blew that transition resulting in a 6-7 season. But we don't make decisions based on what we know after the fact. So his coaching pool was basically a lesser P5 coach or a G6 or FCS coach. Again in December 2014, who were those guys? I don't know, but I am pretty sure, that it wouldn't have mattered who it was because Nebraska fan wanted a home run but they only had pitchers left to pinch hit.
I really don't think that throwing $$$$ at this is the answer. The money isn't the reason people weren't looking at this job the past 3 hires IMHO.
You didn't pay enough attention in November and December 2014.
edit - where Nebraska ranks in terms of highest paid coaches means nothing to me. If Eichorst paid Riley $5 mil a year and Nebraska was in the top 10 does that mean he would be a top 10 coach?
If you are holding on to an heirloom that means the world to you and you wouldn't take $1 million to sell it, that doesn't mean its worth $1 million.
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We fire a coach who was winning 75% of his games and had played in the National title game - Of course the bar was set to high for the next guy
We fire Callahan who had two losing seasons - no one faulted Nebraska - The fans treatment of coaches was a bit over the top. there really was no coaching search done TO was going to hire Pelini no other coach turned down the position
We fire Pelini - with no candidate in the hopper mistake #1 - why did Eichorst not have his ducks in row when this was probably the longest firing process in college football . Even then pelini was winning 9 games a year - Eichorst should have fired him for calling all the fans names on the leaked tape instead he fired him for not beating Iowa ???? of course other coaches are looking at this and saying " This Eichorst guy is an idiot I dont want to work there" then instead of hiring a coach with a big upside we hire an established coach who is struggling
The Nebraska job is a decent job not top ten but certainly good enough to get a really good up and coming coach which is what we should have done - and after Eichorst is gone will probably end up doing anyhow
We fire Callahan who had two losing seasons - no one faulted Nebraska - The fans treatment of coaches was a bit over the top. there really was no coaching search done TO was going to hire Pelini no other coach turned down the position
We fire Pelini - with no candidate in the hopper mistake #1 - why did Eichorst not have his ducks in row when this was probably the longest firing process in college football . Even then pelini was winning 9 games a year - Eichorst should have fired him for calling all the fans names on the leaked tape instead he fired him for not beating Iowa ???? of course other coaches are looking at this and saying " This Eichorst guy is an idiot I dont want to work there" then instead of hiring a coach with a big upside we hire an established coach who is struggling
The Nebraska job is a decent job not top ten but certainly good enough to get a really good up and coming coach which is what we should have done - and after Eichorst is gone will probably end up doing anyhow
- If you have a position open that you will pay an average wage for - guess what average people will fill. If you have a position that pays top ten money maybe even in stages for that matter then the signal is clear to coaches - If you win we will pay you a lot. If Riley was making top money maybe some other coach would say I want a piece of that
- This is not heirloom its a job - Of course our name doesnt hold as much water and in fact the job may look even less attractive given the local media scrutiny thing and lack of recruiting base narrative that the media has advanced - so what is the counter balance? nothing? you do not even try you just accept the current results? - I say we need to be the first doing stuff rather than always following and always being average and that includes pay
Riley was not an unreasonable hire .. But as with most major decisions history ultimately decides if it was a good one.
As noted above Nebraska's coaching pool will consist of candidates in the realm of PJ Fleck. He may or may not prove to be a high end power 5 coach - but he was not an unreasonable hire for Minnesota nor would he have been for Nebraska if the timing was right. Depending on the year Nebraska may not be the first choice of the highest profile mid major coach - Hermann wasn't going to choose Nebraksa over Texas and we weren't going to win a bidding war with Texas. The right coach is out there but it will continue to require Nebraska to take risks on unproven candidates - often before the candidate has reached his most marketable level
Frost for example (just using him as an example - not arguing to pursue) would be much more likely to take a Nebraska offer now than in 3 years if he has achieved the success that Hermann had at Houston and he is on every programs A list.
In short we are likely going to need to find a candidate on the rise rather than when he is at his peak. Urban Meyer may have taken the Nebraksa job while at bowling green but not after going 10-2 and 12-0 at Utah
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This isn't a Wal-Mart checker job.
You don't list a pay scale when hiring a football coach. You hire the best guy you can get for the job and you pay him what he is worth. You have to have people interested in the job, that are worth $5-8 million a year in order to pay $5-8 million per year. If you say you are going to pay $5 mil a year and you only get interest from guys that are worth $2 mil a year, then you are bound to overpay. Poor business
Herman went to Houston in 2014. That is the time frame I am talking about with regards to Herman. Herman vs Riley. The Texas job was irrelevant at that point.
So I guess your choice is to not try but just settle - what if we tried something other people are not doing?
I remember when Nebraska was starting its S&C regime that other coaches and programs scoffed at that also - Oh the players dont need that it will make them less flexible and on and on.
edit - and BTW the coaches pay for almost all the colleges are listed and up to this point in time when has there ever been as much money flying around so much the AD is giving out non-athletic scholarships
If you keep doing the same thing dont expect different results
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that is why we are going to have to take risks and get an up and comer. As noted above Urban Meyer may have taken the Nebraksa job while at bowling green but not after 2 years at Utah where he was the #1 candidate for every big time program that needed a coach
What are you talking about? You brought up that we have the 42 highest paid coach in the country. I am just telling you that is not a factor in the deal. Riley is probably overpaid, based on results at Nebraska.
You have to have interest from the top coaches in order to pay top coaches. It's that simple.
This has nothing to do with trying things that are new. The past 4 coaches at Nebraska were a promoted assistant, a former NFL head coach, a first time head coach and seasoned college football coach. The only one not on the list is a G6 or FCS head coach. I will assume that will be the next hire. What I will also say is that the next guy isn't going to be a top 10 paid coach and it has nothing to do with Nebraska not being willing to pay the money to get that type of coach.
Urban didn't look at Nebraska because of how Pedey handled Solich. He was all over ESPN doing interviews.
I agree that the next coach is going to be a risk and an FCS or G6 coach.
yes .. I know. I realize the timing has to work out. I am just arguing that we will likely need to get a Urban like coach in his Bowling Green days and not after an historic run at a Utah.
In hindsight had Nebraska fired Solich after the 2002 season (7-7) which they could have justified, I bet Meyer would have taken the Nebraska job over the Utah job he was offered.
And it will take a whole lot of digging to find the right guy and the right fit. Any decent AD would have a short list in the drawer, next to his bottle of scotch.
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I said the same thing in a previous post. Poor timing in the firing of coaches have aided in Nebraska being where they are. Fire Pelini after the Iowa meltdown in 2013 and maybe the pool is bigger then
Who knows what could have happened or what will happen. My greatest discomfort is who may be selecting the next coach, if there is a next coach, this year, or 3 years down the road. Currently it would be the guy that stands in front of the media and self-proclaims he's a leader? What effective leader ever would ever do that? The head of the entire department is underwhelming, and holds the key to any decision.
We could/should be 3-2 with two huge games in October to follow. Perhaps the season will look much different after the Wisky game and Eichorst lucks out. Luck seems to be the most reliable ticket right now. I can only imagine the tenor of his remarks if this happens...but then again, would anyone care if Eichorst remains arrogant(and lucky) if we are 4-2 with OSU coming to town?
Strange days. Hope and luck are tenuous strategies.
We could/should be 3-2 with two huge games in October to follow. Perhaps the season will look much different after the Wisky game and Eichorst lucks out. Luck seems to be the most reliable ticket right now. I can only imagine the tenor of his remarks if this happens...but then again, would anyone care if Eichorst remains arrogant(and lucky) if we are 4-2 with OSU coming to town?
Strange days. Hope and luck are tenuous strategies.
You obviously don't know the Big A.We certainly don't want to alienate or offend Barry. He has our best interest @ heart.
Here is the deal and I am not trying to state I have the answers but lets break this down as follows: Nebraska as a program continues to slip further and further down the ladder. Advantages we had that separated us from middle to lower programs continue to evaporate year by year - Why because of the enormous influx of money from the conferences and in our case BIG10. Every program even the ones who have no tradition or fan following are building state of the art facilities. College sports programs are awash in money things the programs needed that had smaller fan and donor support are now within their reach. That includes paying coaches
Nebraska is paying its head coach in line with Rutgers, Maryland, Illinois and behind Minnesota and most of these teams have new head coaches from either the assistant ranks or smaller schools - We act like we are a below average program in so many ways and that includes who we hire ,how much we pay them and even why we hire certain coaches.
If NU doesnt wake up and start spending whatever is necessary to rebuild this program, there will soon be nothing left to rebuild. There are plenty of ways to spend money that are outside of the box thinking. Some of these new ideas or things may help turn the tide and bring us back - yet we do not even try we get our full share this year and what do we do ? nothing we use some of it to basically gift to students because this administration has no original ideas
That's not what you said.
I'll make it simple for ya...are husker fans justified in being upset with the staff for losing to NIU at home or not?
To use your point I quoted you'd have to put words into people's mouths
I have already addressed this with you but you either don't believe me or you don't understand what I am saying. It has nothing to do with the willingness to spend the money. It is poor business to pay a coach $5 mill a year if that coach isn't worth $5 million a year. If you believe that there is a coach out there, that would leave their current P5 position for a few extra bucks, please tell me who that is. Let's list a few coaches that have been mentioned in these threads.
Derek Mason $2.55 mil
Scott Frost $1.77 mil
Dan Mullen $4.2 mil
Then look at what Texas was paying Charlie Strong $5.2, Texas A&M pays Sumlin $5 mil, Oregon paid Helfrich $3.3 mil
Paying big salaries doesn't guarantee anything. Would you want Strong, Sumlin or Helfrich at Nebraska and increase their salaries to do it?
Are you going to give Scott Frost a $3.5 mil raise, Mason $2.5 mil raise, or Mullen $1 mil more just to say we are paying in the top 15 in coach's salaries?
That doesn't make sense.
Why is it that when Nebraska HC position opens up that there isn't a line of top coaches begging for the opportunity to take that job? I can promise you that it is more than "Eichorst didn't ask" or "Eichorst was focused on Riley from the beginning"
Acceptance is the first step. But Nebraska isn't currently a destination job for many coaches. It can be again but it won't be overnight.
Are you stuck in a loop or something - Lets be clear here:
1. You have no idea if raising the bar for coaches salaries ( including assistants) would not help attract better coaches - you simply do not know this and cannot know it until its tried
2. There are many ways to use money that should and could be brainstormed - This AD gives the money back to the University when the sports teams are failing - brilliant!
3. If like you this program is not willing to try then do not bitch when it fails - and a "few extra bucks" is not 2 million or more
The OP was about the current state of the Husker program. It wasn't in relation to losing this one game. The comment you responded to was me discussing the entitled behavior exuded by many Nebraska fans. I did not mentioned the Northern Ill game at all, you did when you replied to me.
Please feel however you want to with regards to the Northern Illinois game.
But the whole reason there is drama drama everywhere is because we lost to northern Illinois, Oregon, and played terrible in our 1 win.
It's isn't because we aren't going to win a NC this year, or even a big 10 championship. Few expect that right now, it you obviously think everyone expects it immediately.
Had we beat NIU like we should, there wouldn't be as much drama drama everywhere. There'd be some of course, no one will ever be completely happy heck go to Alabamas board. But the post was an obvious reaction to the dire mood after losing to NIU, hardly the same as losing a top 10 matchup eliminating us from playoff contention.
Expecting better this year may be entitlement in the dictionary definition, but it doesn't mean husker fans feel entitled to a national title this year or immediately after Riley was hired. That's make believe.
