Boe Wilson to announce soon....

[jflores]

"The player where you look at his offer list and say "Wow, this kid is a player. We got a good one here."

Maybe its just me, but I feel like that now. I don't know, I value offer lists, but I don't overvalue them. Offers aren't given out under the same conditions, some coaches blanket, some coaches are choosy. It may not even be philosophy most years, it could be scholarship logistics and needs. And the politics of being the first to offer, lots of schools don't want to be that school.

UT offered Stoll. Stoll is a 3 star. Does that "count" in a fight for good talent? On our side of the fence, we're happy that we went up against a high profile school in UT and won. Despite geographic and other disadvantages. On their side of the fence, they are unhappy for the same reasons, they lost to a school that crapped its pants on national tv multiple times with no built in advantages.

You would argue that we both should be upset, because Stoll is a three star not worth fighting over for either school. Seemingly. And one could easily compare that situation to Snyder and Harbaugh last year.

If elite schools and coaches like UT/Strong, and UM/Harbaugh and NU/Riley are supposed to be fighting over 5.8 4 stars with 3 other SEC schools, then why are we fighting over Stoll and Snyder? Even if one says that NU doesn't really have a shot at higher rated TE's, if UT and UM don't, then no one does.

 

[jflores]

This ^^. One million times, this ^^. No one can convince me Melvin Gordon (who just scored, again) and Wisconsin had a superior talent level last year to Nebraska. Those offensive play calls weren't reinventions of the wheel. Disparage Bo's recruiting all you want, but talent isn't what made us lose the West Division last year.

+1 here.

 

[Blackshirtgang21]

Sure you can compare the two. Player rankings can go down as easily as up. The number of players in the Top 100 and Top 250 will always remain the same. If some players move up, others have to move down and vice-versa. If Riley and staff are good evaluators of talent, then we will benefit. We will see.

You just proved my point, we already know several of our commits will be moving up as they have on other sites that continuously update their rankings. And not many of our commits have gone to rivals camps so you know they won't move them up like the other sites. But the players you compared from Bos class had already went through all of the evals and up/downgrades and ended with thos ratings. We know pob will be a 4*, thomas wont remain a 2*.

 

[jflores]

You just proved my point, we already know several of our commits will be moving up as they have on other sites that continuously update their rankings. And not many of our commits have gone to rivals camps so you know they won't move them up like the other sites. But the players you compared from Bos class had already went through all of the evals and up/downgrades and ended with thos ratings. We know pob will be a 4*, thomas wont remain a 2*.

At this point, I don't think there's a whole lot to prove recruiting wise for the staff. They can get guys of the right ilk interested and even reel them in.

We pretty much have to get the same warm fuzzy about playcalling, execution, consistency, etc on the field now. That'll help sway some of the higher end kids. Its not going to mean much if Riley had 20 5 stars in the bank right now, if this staff can't coach a lick.

 

[Blackshirtgang21]

I would hope in a class this size we better have double digit 4*s or I will be concerned. ... But to be honest i don't see us getting there, we have 3 now with POB, Quay is 4* on 247 who knows where rivals puts him. but our other two are fringe 4*s by Rivals b.c they didn't attend camps so they say they couldn't evaluate them so others passed them by. So who knows which way they move next rankings. With those 3 we have good chances with Farniok, Burrell, we made top 5-8 cuts with several 4* WRs but to be honest I dont think we land any of them. Doesn't sound like Elitise will even make it for a visit, hence Boe Wilson getting the okay to commit. Not in real good standing with ANY 4* DE or DTs. That is an area of concern. This class will pry be 30th give or take a cple. Next year is where we make our move, KJJ commits this fall and a lot of dominoes will fall behind with highly ranked players. But unless we can get his 4* ath teammate that committed as QB to Zona to flip I think Dismuke is all we get this year. Pittman to Oregon and Mique stays out west.

 

[Cornicator]

The ironic part of this whole thread is the term, "seems like a Pelini class."

Nebraska didn't lose to teams like Iowa, Northwestern, Minnesota, Iowa State, Texas Tech, Washington, or lose by 50 repeatedly to Wisconsin because of talent.

 

[northeastNebraska]

Soooo Wilson will be N IMO. Figured I'd throw that in this thread that was supposed to be about him.

 

[ssmith84]

I would hope in a class this size we better have double digit 4*s or I will be concerned. ... But to be honest i don't see us getting there, we have 3 now with POB, Quay is 4* on 247 who knows where rivals puts him. but our other two are fringe 4*s by Rivals b.c they didn't attend camps so they say they couldn't evaluate them so others passed them by. So who knows which way they move next rankings. With those 3 we have good chances with Farniok, Burrell, we made top 5-8 cuts with several 4* WRs but to be honest I dont think we land any of them. Doesn't sound like Elitise will even make it for a visit, hence Boe Wilson getting the okay to commit. Not in real good standing with ANY 4* DE or DTs. That is an area of concern. This class will pry be 30th give or take a cple. Next year is where we make our move, KJJ commits this fall and a lot of dominoes will fall behind with highly ranked players. But unless we can get his 4* ath teammate that committed as QB to Zona to flip I think Dismuke is all we get this year. Pittman to Oregon and Mique stays out west.

Well that is probably the most pessimistic projection of the class possible.

I don't understand setting specific numbers for 4 stars otherwise you will be concerned. 10 doesnt make you concerned. But 9 will?

Like everything with recruiting its probably best to take stock of the completed class on signing day and see where we are.

 

[jflores]

I would hope in a class this size we better have double digit 4*s or I will be concerned. ... But to be honest i don't see us getting there, we have 3 now with POB, Quay is 4* on 247 who knows where rivals puts him. but our other two are fringe 4*s by Rivals b.c they didn't attend camps so they say they couldn't evaluate them so others passed them by. So who knows which way they move next rankings. With those 3 we have good chances with Farniok, Burrell, we made top 5-8 cuts with several 4* WRs but to be honest I dont think we land any of them. Doesn't sound like Elitise will even make it for a visit, hence Boe Wilson getting the okay to commit. Not in real good standing with ANY 4* DE or DTs. That is an area of concern. This class will pry be 30th give or take a cple. Next year is where we make our move, KJJ commits this fall and a lot of dominoes will fall behind with highly ranked players. But unless we can get his 4* ath teammate that committed as QB to Zona to flip I think Dismuke is all we get this year. Pittman to Oregon and Mique stays out west.

This post summarizes the uneasy ground in which the comparison was originally posed. How many four stars is enough. What does four stars mean. Which service do we count when tallying. That service over there says four this says three. But not because the kid is good or bad but because he didn't attend a particular camp.

Proclamations like we need to have double digits four stars or I'm worried mean nothing when one can't define the unit of measurement or an absolute scale. It simply signifies the gut feeling of an otherwise preoccupied fan

 

[big red22]

Remind me again when we've given ESPN props for being such outstanding recruiting analysts. That's what I thought. Regardless, I'll bet if you go back and check the numbers, you will most certainly find similar numbers for Pelini's classes.

Fact is...the first 12 commits are decent, but we still need to see better recruiting classes than Pelini had, and this class is looking eerily similar.

You do realize the Jeremy Crabtree... the original talent scout of this site left for ESPN right?

 

[Blackshirtgang21]

Well that is probably the most pessimistic projection of the class possible.

I don't understand setting specific numbers for 4 stars otherwise you will be concerned. 10 doesnt make you concerned. But 9 will?

Like everything with recruiting its probably best to take stock of the completed class on signing day and see where we are.

Let me put it this way for you, our direct competition to become elite again, tOSU, will sign in the upper teens of 4* players, so yes, to be able to compete with and beat them, we will need double digit 4*s OR not miss on hardly any of the 3* talent we sign. MR even acknowledged the fact that teams that finish in the upper recruiting rankings are the teams that have been winning championships.

 

[big red22]

How about I use the phrase "Not getting out of the gate as well as I would have liked." I would have liked to see us get more players with numerous high profile schools offering. I'm not questioning how Riley and staff are going about recruiting as much as I am the early results. That's why I wonder if we aren't maybe being selective enough with the players we are offering. Tons of offers have gone out.

I think any coach at this school should be able to get 8-10 4-star type kids in the fray by February. That would include multiple offers from high profile programs. They don't have to be 4-stars, but have a 4-star level of offers. You know the type of player I am talking about. The player where you look at his offer list and say "Wow, this kid is a player. We got a good one here."

Du I agree with you on the fact that the Stars look about the same as they did under Pelini. I disagree in the talent level. The kids on our commit list have much better offer list then what we have seen under Pelini

 

[ssmith84]

Let me put it this way for you, our direct competition to become elite again, tOSU, will sign in the upper teens of 4* players, so yes, to be able to compete with and beat them, we will need double digit 4*s OR not miss on hardly any of the 3* talent we sign. MR even acknowledged the fact that teams that finish in the upper recruiting rankings are the teams that have been winning championships.

So you won't be worried if we don't sign double digit 4 stars because it is possible to get there with great talent evaluation on 3 stars?

 

[Blackshirtgang21]

Well we wont be able to know how any of them 3* 4* or whatever until they get to campus for a year or two, some may become all-conference after 3 years... but yes if we dont start signing double digit 4*s we will continue down the same path we have been on... so to be elite like we all want, you need great coaching AND great athletes. Not many of Pelinis 4* panned out here, but the fact still remains the teams that sign ALOT of 4-5*s have that many more that can not pan out because they have a bigger pool to pull from. When you only sign 5-6 elite athletes every year and half dont pan out, well you see the results from that. 9-4

 

[ssmith84]

Well we wont be able to know how any of them 3* 4* or whatever until they get to campus for a year or two, some may become all-conference after 3 years... but yes if we dont start signing double digit 4*s we will continue down the same path we have been on... so to be elite like we all want, you need great coaching AND great athletes. Not many of Pelinis 4* panned out here, but the fact still remains the teams that sign ALOT of 4-5*s have that many more that can not pan out because they have a bigger pool to pull from. When you only sign 5-6 elite athletes every year and half dont pan out, well you see the results from that. 9-4

Pelini's problems were depth and coaching. Your approach to stars is far too deterministic, IMO. When it comes to odds of being drafted, there isnt much difference between a 5.7 3 star and 5.8 4 star.

Its always better to sign more 4 and 5 stars than not, but there is far more to the 9 and 4 story than what happens in February.

 

[Blackshirtgang21]

Pelini's problems were depth and coaching. Your approach to stars is far too deterministic, IMO. When it comes to odds of being drafted, there isnt much difference between a 5.7 3 star and 5.8 4 star.

Its always better to sign more 4 and 5 stars than not, but there is far more to the 9 and 4 story than what happens in February.

I agree with the coaching aspect I said so in another post, otherwise you come out like Callahan or a current day Tenessee. Stud athletes at every postion but still isnt equating to championships, not even close for those clowns.

 

[nebcountry]

Soooo Wilson will be N IMO. Figured I'd throw that in this thread that was supposed to be about him.

He's a player in our radius. I think it would be good if he commits to NU.

 

[suhnami]

So you won't be worried if we don't sign double digit 4 stars because it is possible to get there with great talent evaluation on 3 stars?

We need to sign 15+ RR 5.7's a year to get in the discussion. Then you need a few difference maker types, QB, RB, WR, S, LB, DL at some or all of those positions Then we have a chance to compete.

Anything short of that and it's going to take a miracle and I'll expect 8-10 win seasons until we're getting the better players.

 

[ssmith84]

We need to sign 15+ RR 5.7's a year to get in the discussion. Then you need a few difference maker types, QB, RB, WR, S, LB, DL at some or all of those positions Then we have a chance to compete.

Anything short of that and it's going to take a miracle and I'll expect 8-10 win seasons until we're getting the better players.

It might not be the worst idea in the world to see what the coaches do with the talent currently on the roster before saying "anything short it will take a miracle".

I think its generally a good goal to sign 15 guys who are 5.7 or better, but the question is what is the difference between a 5.7 with offers from Air Force and ISU vs. a 5.6 star with offers from most of the SEC, ACC, and Big 12? One looks like a much better player, despite the lower ranking.

 

[Husker.Wed.]

At this point, I don't think there's a whole lot to prove recruiting wise for the staff. They can get guys of the right ilk interested and even reel them in.

We pretty much have to get the same warm fuzzy about playcalling, execution, consistency, etc on the field now. That'll help sway some of the higher end kids. Its not going to mean much if Riley had 20 5 stars in the bank right now, if this staff can't coach a lick.

+1 If NU comes out flat against BYU, their 23-year old linemen who already have 2 kids each plow us, Hill picks us apart, our O-Line has trouble, Tommy has trouble with accuracy, Langsdorf inexplicably moves away from plays that work, and it is exactly the same in the second half, I will be the first to admit nothing has changed except the head coach is nice. I am reasonably confident the above doesn't happen and think we are actually pleasantly surprised.

 

[suhnami]

It might not be the worst idea in the world to see what the coaches do with the talent currently on the roster before saying "anything short it will take a miracle".

I think its generally a good goal to sign 15 guys who are 5.7 or better, but the question is what is the difference between a 5.7 with offers from Air Force and ISU vs. a 5.6 star with offers from most of the SEC, ACC, and Big 12? One looks like a much better player, despite the lower ranking.

Totally appreciate what you're saying. However, I believe we've been watching long enough to see that the across the board talent isn't really there. Throw in an average current QB and RB play (so far) and questionable LB's and it seems like it's going to take a bit for them to make the improvement I'm hoping for.

 

[HuskerO]

"Gosh I hate always being right." -Jeff Goldblum

I don't see a significant difference in quality of offers from those players below vs our current class. Maybe a few here and there, but generally we're talking about the same quality of players. Actually, in terms of a number value, Bo had better ranked players onboard than Riley after the first 12 Commitments. That doesn't necessarily guarantee that Riley and his staff will end up with a lower rated class than Bo's first class, but what started this whole uproar was that I said I didn't see much difference in the offers of Pelini's recruits vs Riley's. And that IS pretty much the case.

What IS particularly surprising to me is that Pelini ended up with 9 4-star players in his first class (mostly assembled by Callahan's staff). If Bo and his staff could keep those players committed after the train wreck that was the 2007 season, we should expect 8-10 4-star players in each class.

Here are the first 12 commits by Bo in his 2nd signing class, which would be the equivalent class to the current class Riley and staff are working on...

Baker Steinkuhler - ***** - 9-3-06 - Won't count him. Committed to Callahan, but Bo and his staff kept him committed for about a year and a half.

Collins Okafor - *** (5.7). Won't count. Also committed to Callahan. Bo and staff kept his commitment for app. 16 months.
------------------
David Whittimore - **** (5.8) - First actual commitment to 2008 class to Pelini. K-State, Missouri, Okie State

Sean Fischer - *** (5.7) - Arizona St., Arkansas, Colorado, Iowa, Iowa St., Oklahoma, Wisconsin

John Leverson - *** (5.5) - Ohio, Wyoming

Tyson Hetzer - *** (5.6) - Arizona St., K-State, Louisville, Utah St.

Ricky Henry - *** (5.5) - Colorado, Houston

Cameron Meredith - *** (5.7) - Arizona, Arizona St., Boise St., Colorado, Oklahoma, Oregon, Oregon St., Washington, Washington St.

Kyler Reed - *** (5.6) - Colorado, Colorado St., Iowa St., Kansas, K-State, Missouri, Northwestern

Brandon Thompson - *** (5.5) - Arizona, Colorado, Oklahoma St., Purdue, Texas A&M, Texas Tech, Virginia

Ben Cotton - *** (5.7) - Iowa, Iowa St., Kansas, Louisville, Wisconsin

Will Compton - **** (5.8) - Arkansas, Illinois, Iowa, Michigan, Michigan St., Missouri, Notre Dame, Vanderbilt

Kody Spano - *** (5.7) - #9 Dual-Threat QB in the nation. Okie St, TCU, Tulsa

Josh Williams - *** (5.7) - Arkansas, Colorado, Kansas, Missouri, Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech

Totals - First 12 Commitments (2008 Class)
**** - 2
*** (5.7) - 5
*** (5.6) - 2
*** (5.5) - 3
** NONE

Totals - First 12 Commitments (2016 Class)
**** - 2
*** (5.7) - 3
*** (5.6) - 4
*** (5.5) - 2
** - 1

If we're going to compare the 2 coaches, the biggest difference **as of right now** that I see is that by July 2, 2007 Pelini on had only 7 commits and 5 of those were Nebraska kids.
***** Steinkuhler (Nebraska kid)
*** Okafor (Nebraska kid)
**** Whitmore
*** Fisher (Nebraska kid)
*** Levorson (Nebraska kid)
*** Hetzer
*** Henry (Nebraska kid)

So at this point Riley is much much further ahead in the recruiting game his first year than Bo was.

 

[huskerbaseball13]

If we're going to compare the 2 coaches, the biggest difference **as of right now** that I see is that by July 2, 2007 Pelini on had only 7 commits and 5 of those were Nebraska kids.
***** Steinkuhler (Nebraska kid)
*** Okafor (Nebraska kid)
**** Whitmore
*** Fisher (Nebraska kid)
*** Levorson (Nebraska kid)
*** Hetzer
*** Henry (Nebraska kid)

So at this point Riley is much much further ahead in the recruiting game his first year than Bo was.

You both are a year off....Pelini had 4 commits to the 2009 class at the start of July. By the end of July he had 8...and they were...

Cole Pensick
Tad Randle
CJ Zimmerer
D Robinson
Cody Green
Jess Coffey
Nick Ash

Let's really hope Riley has better luck with his first class because overall the 09' class ended up being very brutal.

 

[Suvey101885]

You are a year off....Pelini had 4 commits to the 2009 class at the start of July. By the end of July he had 8...and they were...

Cole Pensick
Tad Randle
CJ Zimmerer
D Robinson
Cody Green
Jess Coffey
Nick Ash

Let's really hope Riley has better luck with his first class because overall the 09' class ended up being very brutal.

Tad Randle made me lol

 

[nebcountry]

If we're going to compare the 2 coaches, the biggest difference **as of right now** that I see is that by July 2, 2007 Pelini on had only 7 commits and 5 of those were Nebraska kids.
***** Steinkuhler (Nebraska kid)
*** Okafor (Nebraska kid)
**** Whitmore
*** Fisher (Nebraska kid)
*** Levorson (Nebraska kid)
*** Hetzer
*** Henry (Nebraska kid)

So at this point Riley is much much further ahead in the recruiting game his first year than Bo was. Just curious if that changes your stance just a little? Not trying to call you out or sound facetious. Just curious in your thoughts on what I typed out.

The point of at least one of the arguments, will the results at the end of the year be any different. It's not the number of recruits that matter at a given point in time, it's the quality and number of recruits we have.

This whole thread is being approached from different angles, with different time frames, what makes a quality recruit, and what the goal is.

 

[HuskerO]

You both are a year off....Pelini had 4 commits to the 2009 class at the start of July. By the end of July he had 8...and they were...

Cole Pensick
Tad Randle
CJ Zimmerer
D Robinson
Cody Green
Jess Coffey
Nick Ash

Let's really hope Riley has better luck with his first class because overall the 09' class ended up being very brutal.

My bad. I just went off the year Husker Du had mentioned.

 

[ReuniteGondwanaland]

You both are a year off....Pelini had 4 commits to the 2009 class at the start of July. By the end of July he had 8...and they were...

Cole Pensick
Tad Randle
CJ Zimmerer
D Robinson
Cody Green
Jess Coffey
Nick Ash

Let's really hope Riley has better luck with his first class because overall the 09' class ended up being very brutal.

Agree, Pelini's first class, with Bo largely disinterested in recruiting and Ted Gilmore just a terrible recruiting coordinator hurt us for years. Out of those first 8 recruits we got two starters and one conference honor player with Cole Pensick getting a nod for 2nd team all-B1G. The whole 2009 class other than Rex Burkhead, Taylor Martinez and just a few others (out of 20) disappointed.

If Riley's early class doesn't dramatically out-perform the group above our odds of getting back to winning conference championships go way down.

 

[Hoosker Du]

You both are a year off....Pelini had 4 commits to the 2009 class at the start of July. By the end of July he had 8...and they were...

Cole Pensick
Tad Randle
CJ Zimmerer
D Robinson
Cody Green
Jess Coffey
Nick Ash

Let's really hope Riley has better luck with his first class because overall the 09' class ended up being very brutal.

Well strap me down and put fire ants in my groin...you are absolutely correct, HB13!! Son-of-a!! That is the last time I get on the board after waking up in the middle of the night. I thought I was discussing the '09 class, and I was discussing Pelini's first class that was mostly put together by Callahan and his staff. Good Lord..

We all wasted a day debating based on my faulty information. My apologies to all on the board. I won't even do a comparison of the ACTUAL '09 class, because HB13 already took care of it, and Riley and co. look very good by comparison.

The good news is that I can actually go back in my hole and realize that Riley and his staff are doing a much better job as compared to the same time frame for Pelini's staff.

Again, sorry for wasting everyone's time with my groggy analysis. And thanks to HB13 for not letting me have it. Others...go ahead...I deserve it..

 

[Dean Pope]

Other than one of the QBs being a Pro Style QB, the offer lists look very similar to what we would see in a Pelini class. Actually Pelini's recruits may have overall had better offers. We need to improve in recruiting vs what Bo and his staff brought in, or our margin for error is going to be razor thin. Especially when going up against the East teams.

I'm tired of 9-win seasons. I do think Riley has a better collection of coaches overall, but I'm still not sold on Banker taking our defense to the next level. Actually I'm fairly concerned about that side of the ball.

Watch some 2nd half film of Wisconsin or Ohio State. The defense will be much more sound under Banker.

 

[LBremser]

I hope that you are right, but Banker's defensive ranking numbers are less than impressive - rather Cosgrove-esq.

 

[HBK4life]

OK, I think we've filled up with enough of those with average offer lists. Now let's catch some of the bigger fish. This is looking more and more like a Pelini class.

Really? This kid is listed as the #3 center in the NATION. The 2 above him are 4 stars.
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