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Big 12 vs PAC 12: Who is in better shape?

The fact that the SEC and the B1G don't want any teams from the Big 12 isn't exactly a good thing. It means that the Big 12 is a conference filled with a bunch of meh teams.
It benefits them from a stability standpoint. They realize - financially - they are a second tier conference behind the BIG and SEC and their individual members know the BIG and SEC don’t want them so they aren’t all trying to jump ship. So collectively they have accepted their lot and are focused on trying to make the best of it.

The PAC hasn’t come to either of those realizations which is why they are at risk of going down in flames
 
It benefits them from a stability standpoint. They realize - financially - they are a second tier conference behind the BIG and SEC and their individual members know the BIG and SEC don’t want them so they aren’t all trying to jump ship. So collectively they have accepted their lot and are focused on trying to make the best of it.

The PAC hasn’t come to either of those realizations which is why they are at risk of going down in fla
this is a fair assessment from my perspective. in business, we call it "facing the brutal fact." i believe yormark and the conference membership have done that, while the p12 stands on principle.
 
the irony here ^^^ is overwhelming.

ku and arizona hoops are blue blood, top tier. baylor, houston and k-state are really solid.

utah, oSu, k-state, tcu, baylor all have 21st century conference championship football tradition. it's a new league filled with new players, sorta like new money v. old money.

but the issue will be just that - the money disparity between ours, yours and theirs, as rightly pointed out by fsu's a.d. earlier this week.
Basketball doesn't really move the needle in terms of conference expansion.
 
Basketball doesn't really move the needle in terms of conference expansion.
Basketball typically produces 20 to 25 percent of a conferences media package. The ACC is a little different in that BB produces about 30 to 35 percent. There are a handful of programs that are much more valuable than the rest. They are predictably; North Carolina, Kentucky, Kansas, Duke, Louisville, UCLA, Arizona.
 
Basketball typically produces 20 to 25 percent of a conferences media package. The ACC is a little different in that BB produces about 30 to 35 percent. There are a handful of programs that are much more valuable than the rest. They are predictably; North Carolina, Kentucky, Kansas, Duke, Louisville, UCLA, Arizona.
Basketball is completely irrelevant to conference and network negotiations. The only thing that anyone cares about is the Tournament and that revenue is separate from those.

In 21-22 the highest rated regular season game was Duke vs North Carolina. Coach K's final home game and a big upset. It drew 3.98M viewers. Duke's upset of #1 Gonzaga brought in 2.79M. Those were the most watched games that entire season in college basketball. One of which was a pretty significant game in the sport and they wouldn't be a blip in college football. Only 8 games that entire season topped 2 Million viewers. 8. Nebraska Football who hasn't made a bowl game in 3 years and fired its coach after losing to a sunbelt team averaged 1.98M viewers.

Let's put it this way. BTN averaged 215,000 viewers per basketball game in 2021-22. Nebraska Volleyball does better ratings on BTN. Noone is making network and conference level decisions because of basketball any more than they would the Nebraska Volleyball program.
 
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would not be surprised to see yormark take some basketball brands like gonzaga and and maybe even nova, then separate the basketball and football media deals.
I've heard a couple of credible sources say Gonzaga & St Mary's are both high on the Big East's list along with Notre Dame basketball
 
b12 will take the zags if they want them. it's by far the best basketball league and a great landing spot for the blue blood jesuits. 'nova would be a nice dance partner because they would also marry up nicely with 'nati and wvu out there.
 
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b12 will take the zags if they want them. it's by far the best basketball league and a great landing spot for the blue blood jesuits. 'nova would be a nice dance partner because they would also marry up nicely with 'nati and wvu out there.
a better landing spot than the conference filled with non-football playing traditional basketball power Jesuit schools literally exactly the same as Gonzaga?

I disagree. obviously.
 
a better landing spot than the conference filled with non-football playing traditional basketball power Jesuit schools literally exactly the same as Gonzaga?

I disagree. obviously.
it's all about the money, kk, you know that. you've been preaching that for some time here.
 
it's all about the money, kk, you know that. you've been preaching that for some time here.
of course

the Big East is a well-established Power 6 basketball conference rooted in the most populated region of the country. it commands dollars, attracts media partnerships & showcases its schools in the most famous conference tournament in the country in MSG.

are you suggesting the Big 12 would pay Gonzaga $20M/year while piggybacking off its football media deal? I don't think so
 
the b12 will offer a better financial package than the big east and it won't be close.

The Big East, by contrast, gives its schools about $4.16 million per year. uconnreporter
Big East media deal ends after next season

they will re-up with FOX and likely double that number while having zero games behind paywalls (I'm sure your team's been relegated to ESPN+ more than once thanks to the Big 12's football-focused deal)

UCONN is the only public school in the league - the rest are private and boast endowments well into the 9-figures, just like Gonzaga

if you think the Big 12 will cut the Zags a check for $10M+/year to be a step-child in a conference driven entirely by football, you should be prepared for the inevitability of being wrong once again

there is - quite literally - nothing imminently attracting the Zags to the Big 12. NOTHING

the four corners schools are your best bet
 
the four corner schools coming to this conference is a separate matter albeit the zags would love playing arizona and ku every year to say nothing for baylor and now k-state.
 
the four corner schools coming to this conference is a separate matter albeit the zags would love playing arizona and ku every year to say nothing for baylor and now k-state.
you seem to think your opinions (the entirety of this post) weigh heavily in these decisions.

they don't.

I am telling you what will happen, as I've done before.

you didn't listen then, so maybe consider listening now?
 
you seem to think your opinions (the entirety of this post) weigh heavily in these decisions.

they don't.

I am telling you what will happen, as I've done before.

you didn't listen then, so maybe consider listening now?
you have to refresh my memory, i'm old.
 
the b12 will offer a better financial package than the big east and it won't be close.

The Big East, by contrast, gives its schools about $4.16 million per year. uconnreporter
The Big 12 probably has a shot at Gonzaga. Since the Zags are usually stuck playing on ESPNU at 11:00 p.m. Eastern time, even the Big 12s less-than-stellar TV coverage would appeal to them.

But no way in Hell is Villanova going to jump to the Big 12. The Big East's TV exposure is over-the-top great, especially considering it's a non-Power 5 league. Villanova would be out of its mind to give that up, just as UConn quickly found out when it jumped to the AAC.
 
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well, we shall see what unfolds. rumors are that yormark intends to add a couple basketball-only schools, zags and maybe creighton, then separate the basketball and football media packages next go-around. the guy has moxie about these things. first off, yes, he needs to destroy the p12 because football does reign, no doubt.
 
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well, we shall see what unfolds. rumors are that yormark intends to add a couple basketball-only schools, zags and maybe creighton, then separate the basketball and football media packages next go-around. the guy has moxie about these things. first off, yes, he needs to destroy the p12 because football does reign, no doubt.
Creighton is a more realistic target, but I don't even think they'll walk away from the Big East's TV deal. Plus I doubt McDermott is dying to go back to the Big 12, even if there's a bit more money to be made.

I'm not touting the Big East as a superb basketball conference, but its TV exposure is fantastic.

If the Big 12 wants to make a big basketball splash addition, it's better off to grab Arizona. U of A does have football, but just barely.
 
Basketball is completely irrelevant to conference and network negotiations. The only thing that anyone cares about is the Tournament and that revenue is separate from those.

In 21-22 the highest rated regular season game was Duke vs North Carolina. Coach K's final home game and a big upset. It drew 3.98M viewers. Duke's upset of #1 Gonzaga brought in 2.79M. Those were the most watched games that entire season in college basketball. One of which was a pretty significant game in the sport and they wouldn't be a blip in college football. Only 8 games that entire season topped 2 Million viewers. 8. Nebraska Football who hasn't made a bowl game in 3 years and fired its coach after losing to a sunbelt team averaged 1.98M viewers.

Let's put it this way. BTN averaged 215,000 viewers per basketball game in 2021-22. Nebraska Volleyball does better ratings on BTN. Noone is making network and conference level decisions because of basketball any more than they would the Nebraska Volleyball program.
The NCAA tournament will either be stripped away from the NCAA, or the money will be distributed to the conferences. This will happen. Too much money being made by a nearly 'gone' organization. It will significantly narrow the gap.
Football is the ultimate advertising platform. Nothing can match it. Three and a half hours average game, and they actually play about ten minutes. It's more about food and booze for most.
 
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The NCAA tournament will either be stripped away from the NCAA, or the money will be distributed to the conferences. This will happen. Too much money being made by a nearly 'gone' organization. It will significantly narrow the gap.
Football is the ultimate advertising platform. Nothing can match it. Three and a half hours average game, and they actually play about ten minutes. It's more about food and booze for most.
the NCAA already distributes money for NCAA bids

Big East will get more than $1M per invitee this year. I'm sure it's similar or equal for the others.

as March Madness is the lone (essentially) bread winner for the NCAA, and the secret sauce to its success lies outside of the Power 6, I don't think this future will come to fruition
 
Creighton is a more realistic target, but I don't even think they'll walk away from the Big East's TV deal. Plus I doubt McDermott is dying to go back to the Big 12, even if there's a bit more money to be made.

I'm not touting the Big East as a superb basketball conference, but its TV exposure is fantastic.

If the Big 12 wants to make a big basketball splash addition, it's better off to grab Arizona. U of A does have football, but just barely.
The Big 12 has by far the highest average percentage of BB attendance per venue, at about 75%. Big 10 is at about 65%. SEC, surprisingly 63%. The PAC...33%, which is why Dana Altman went on his tirade a few nights ago after the Oregon home game where 3300 fans showed up. He is pissed. It's a West coast problem, or really as Brett McMurphy says, college football in particular is dying in the Western third of the country. It is one huge, great playground with too much to do for this new generation, definitely not the case in the Midwest and the South. If there is a school in the PAC that will jump, regardless of some patched up streaming money deal that will give no exposure for recruiting, it will be Arizona. Colorado students are into powder...snow that is. The Big 12 will not add Gonzaga or Creighton, not a chance. If Yormark cannot get one or a combination of corner schools, he will wait a few years until the ACC gets picked apart and see who is left. Florida St., and Clemson are rattling the hell out of the cage already.
 
The Big 12 has by far the highest average percentage of BB attendance per venue, at about 75%. Big 10 is at about 65%. SEC, surprisingly 63%. The PAC...33%, which is why Dana Altman went on his tirade a few nights ago after the Oregon home game where 3300 fans showed up. He is pissed. It's a West coast problem, or really as Brett McMurphy says, college football in particular is dying in the Western third of the country. It is one huge, great playground with too much to do for this new generation, definitely not the case in the Midwest and the South. If there is a school in the PAC that will jump, regardless of some patched up streaming money deal that will give no exposure for recruiting, it will be Arizona. Colorado students are into powder...snow that is. The Big 12 will not add Gonzaga or Creighton, not a chance. If Yormark cannot get one or a combination of corner schools, he will wait a few years until the ACC gets picked apart and see who is left. Florida St., and Clemson are rattling the hell out of the cage already.
that's a thoughtful post. i happen to disagree on adding a couple basketball schools. i sense yormark sees basketball as an untapped cash cow. and adding the zags and another like hoops program could be part of his larger strategy. we'll see. it won't be long after the dance that decision is made.
 
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The Big 12 has by far the highest average percentage of BB attendance per venue, at about 75%. Big 10 is at about 65%. SEC, surprisingly 63%. The PAC...33%, which is why Dana Altman went on his tirade a few nights ago after the Oregon home game where 3300 fans showed up. He is pissed. It's a West coast problem, or really as Brett McMurphy says, college football in particular is dying in the Western third of the country. It is one huge, great playground with too much to do for this new generation, definitely not the case in the Midwest and the South. If there is a school in the PAC that will jump, regardless of some patched up streaming money deal that will give no exposure for recruiting, it will be Arizona. Colorado students are into powder...snow that is. The Big 12 will not add Gonzaga or Creighton, not a chance. If Yormark cannot get one or a combination of corner schools, he will wait a few years until the ACC gets picked apart and see who is left. Florida St., and Clemson are rattling the hell out of the cage already.
Sure, but Arizona dwarfs the rest of the PAC-12 in terms of BB attendance. Colorado actually does better than most of the conference, although that isn't saying much.
 
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The Big 12 has by far the highest average percentage of BB attendance per venue, at about 75%. Big 10 is at about 65%. SEC, surprisingly 63%. The PAC...33%, which is why Dana Altman went on his tirade a few nights ago after the Oregon home game where 3300 fans showed up. He is pissed. It's a West coast problem, or really as Brett McMurphy says, college football in particular is dying in the Western third of the country. It is one huge, great playground with too much to do for this new generation, definitely not the case in the Midwest and the South. If there is a school in the PAC that will jump, regardless of some patched up streaming money deal that will give no exposure for recruiting, it will be Arizona. Colorado students are into powder...snow that is. The Big 12 will not add Gonzaga or Creighton, not a chance. If Yormark cannot get one or a combination of corner schools, he will wait a few years until the ACC gets picked apart and see who is left. Florida St., and Clemson are rattling the hell out of the cage already.
I have never agreed when people say that too much to do is the reason people don't go to games. People have hobbies no matter where they live. The biggest problem is the west has a lot of transplants and no real tradition. I would argue there is as much to do in Michigan in October as LA in October. It's 6 or 7 home games a year for football.
 
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The Big 12 has by far the highest average percentage of BB attendance per venue, at about 75%. Big 10 is at about 65%. SEC, surprisingly 63%. The PAC...33%, which is why Dana Altman went on his tirade a few nights ago after the Oregon home game where 3300 fans showed up. He is pissed. It's a West coast problem, or really as Brett McMurphy says, college football in particular is dying in the Western third of the country. It is one huge, great playground with too much to do for this new generation, definitely not the case in the Midwest and the South. If there is a school in the PAC that will jump, regardless of some patched up streaming money deal that will give no exposure for recruiting, it will be Arizona. Colorado students are into powder...snow that is. The Big 12 will not add Gonzaga or Creighton, not a chance. If Yormark cannot get one or a combination of corner schools, he will wait a few years until the ACC gets picked apart and see who is left. Florida St., and Clemson are rattling the hell out of the cage already.
That's such a misleading and terrible statistic to use as a metric. That has more to do with the fact that of the top 25 largest college basketball arenas by capacity only 2 are in the Big 12 (and are #22and #23) as it does with anything else.
 
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That's such a misleading and terrible statistic to use as a metric. That has more to do with the fact that of the top 25 largest college basketball arenas by capacity only 2 are in the Big 12 (and are #22and #23) as it does with anything else.
This may be what you are looking for - NCAA BB, average per game attendance by conference.
1, Big 10
2, Big 12
3, SEC
4, ACC
5, Big East
6, PAC 12
 
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