Basketball: Iowa @ Nebraska HUSKERS WIN IN 2OT!!

[GBRhuskers]

I would think this play could be reviewed, because it's not a judgement call, like traveling or double-dribble or a foul being called. It would be the equivalent of a football review of an incomplete pass, because it was such a bang bang play, and they needed to find out if the foul was called prior to the Iowa player touching the ball. I don't know if that makes sense, but I can't imagine the sequence of events not being reviewable.

You make sense, but this is the NCAA we're talking about. I cant find it anywhere which leads me to believe this play isn't one that can be reviewed. Here's what I found, 2013:

INDIANAPOLIS -- An NCAA panel voted Monday to expand the use of replay review in college basketball, and instituted the 10-second backcourt rule for the women's game.

The Playing Rules Oversight Panel also approved a tweak to the charging-blocking foul in the men's game and gave referees leeway when it comes to penalties for accidentally elbowing an opponent above the shoulders.

The approved changes from the panel's conference call are effective immediately.

Under the replay change, officials can use video review to confirm a shot-clock violation or determine who caused the ball to go out of bounds on a deflection involving two or more players in the final two minutes of regulation or overtime.

Changes also were made for reviewing 3-pointers. For the first 36 minutes of play, officials must wait until the next media timeout to review whether a shot was a 3-point field goal. In the last four minutes of the game and the entire overtime, officials will go to the monitor immediately to determine whether a field goal was a 3.

Officials also can use the monitor to determine which player committed a foul. Previously, they were only allowed to use the monitor to determine the free-throw shooter.

The change to the charging-blocking foul and a list of points of emphasis for officials is designed to spark an offensive bump for the men's game. The scoring average in Division I last season was 67.5 points, the lowest since 1981-82. Scoring has declined each of the last four seasons in Division I.

The defender is no longer able to slide into the offensive player's path to the basket at the last moment and draw a charge. The defender has to be in position when the player on offense starts his upward motion with the ball. In addition, greater emphasis is being placed on calling fouls on defensive players who keep a hand or forearm on an opponent or use an arm bar to impede the progress of an opponent.

When it comes to an elbow above the shoulders, referees will be allowed to use a video monitor to determine the severity of the blow. If deemed inadvertent, the referee could call a player-control foul or even nothing.

Previously, a referee was required to call a flagrant-1 or flagrant-2. A flagrant-1 results in two free throws and possession for the offended team. A flagrant-2 adds an ejection for the offending player.

 

[kaz36]

I guess it depends on ones perspective

Anyway, I agree with the sentiment but I'd say Fran was better than Miles.. Heck of a game. Fantastic crowd.

Um, no. They were both out of control but Fran Pelini's f bomb tirade was a little embarrassing. Dude is a psychopath.

 

[frankluv]

Three and o in the conference. What would Vegas have had to pay out on this stat? McVeigh still sucked.

 

[frankluv]

Um, no. They were both out of control but Fran Pelini's f bomb tirade was a little embarrassing. Dude is a psychopath.

I agree. I was within thirty feet of him and he used the F word over and over. Should have been tee up.

 

[kaz36]

I agree. I was within thirty feet of him and he used the F word over and over. Should have been tee up.

You must have been close to us.

 

[Hoosker Du]

Every time I see Molinari I keep thinking, Why is Anthony Bourdain from Parts Unkown sitting on NU's bench?

Molinari reminds me of the "Twisted old fruit" hotel front desk employee, Paul Benedict, from This is Spinal Tap.

"I'm just as God made me, sir.."

 

[donahues17]

I have always said that Fran is the Bo Pelini of college basketball

 

[anon_umk0ifu6vj6zi]

And it wasn't like Tai was laying off of him either. He was getting pretty physical with him at times and finally took him out of his hot streak. You could just tell Jok was feeling it when iowa went on that run.

Tai played 15 minutes without getting his 5th

 

[TwinsRRUs]

Um, no. They were both out of control but Fran Pelini's f bomb tirade was a little embarrassing. Dude is a psychopath.

You should have used your phone to record it and post it on Twitter and YouTube!

You could have been infamous online for a few minutes! News networks might have called for permission to use the video and pay you millions of pennies.

 

[spartanhusker]

At least Fran deemed Tim worthy of a handshake/hug....

 

[dinglefritz]

What's almost as entertaining as watching that game is going back and reading this thread this morning. Great game. Free throw shooting nearly cost us the game but we kept getting the wrong guys on the line. Looked to me like McVeigh's minutes hurt us early but maybe helped us down the stretch. Jacobsen was huge rebounding again and made a few shots. Horne finally cooled off a little shooting the ball and that hurt. Man what an effort though especially by Tai, Watson and Jacobsen. How good are the underclassmen going to be as seniors assuming Glynn doesn't leave early? Lastly are there any clowns on here that are still going to compare Miles to Doc?

 

[HuskerBlueDevil]

Remind me again which Nebraska team has the prayer "The team that won't be beat, can't be beat..."

 

[huskerbaseball13]

Copeland got to see a good game and the crowd was much better than I thought it would be. I'm a bit torn on him...obviously a very good talent but he's likely to get another year back which would make 5 juniors on the team next year assuming there are no transfers. And at this point...Jack would be the only transfer. With Hunter and Gill...you have to think we have a solid chance at landing him. Some good programs after him though.

 

[huskernaut]

Officially more posts on this board in regards to husker hoops than the past 4 years combined....And most of them are actually positive.

 

[BigRedPimp]

Did something happen to McVeigh in the offseason? He just looks stiff when he gets on the floor. He was decent as a freshman, but man has he really taken steps backwards. Liability on both ends makes it almost impossible to even steal a few minutes with him.

 

[chicolby]

Did something happen to McVeigh in the offseason? He just looks stiff when he gets on the floor. He was decent as a freshman, but man has he really taken steps backwards. Liability on both ends makes it almost impossible to even steal a few minutes with him.

No insider information, but he seemed to just be cold in the first part of the season and now it's a mental roadblock. Just as the team is seemingly figuring out how to win close games, the mentality of winning is really strong - he has the same issue in reverse where he doesn't seem to be able to visualize the ball going through the basket. For golfers out there, when you stand over a putt and can just see it going in the hole, it helps your chances immensely, vs. just taking a swing and hoping for the best.

I think McVeigh can still be a contributor, even this season, but something has to click or he has to have a game winning 3 or something to break out of this funk.

 

[bigboxes]

I have always said that Fran is the Bo Pelini of college basketball

You are not the only one who says that. I believe that is the consensus.

 

[ThrowBones92]

You make sense, but this is the NCAA we're talking about. I cant find it anywhere which leads me to believe this play isn't one that can be reviewed. Here's what I found, 2013:

INDIANAPOLIS -- An NCAA panel voted Monday to expand the use of replay review in college basketball, and instituted the 10-second backcourt rule for the women's game.

The Playing Rules Oversight Panel also approved a tweak to the charging-blocking foul in the men's game and gave referees leeway when it comes to penalties for accidentally elbowing an opponent above the shoulders.

The approved changes from the panel's conference call are effective immediately.

Under the replay change, officials can use video review to confirm a shot-clock violation or determine who caused the ball to go out of bounds on a deflection involving two or more players in the final two minutes of regulation or overtime.

Changes also were made for reviewing 3-pointers. For the first 36 minutes of play, officials must wait until the next media timeout to review whether a shot was a 3-point field goal. In the last four minutes of the game and the entire overtime, officials will go to the monitor immediately to determine whether a field goal was a 3.

Officials also can use the monitor to determine which player committed a foul. Previously, they were only allowed to use the monitor to determine the free-throw shooter.

The change to the charging-blocking foul and a list of points of emphasis for officials is designed to spark an offensive bump for the men's game. The scoring average in Division I last season was 67.5 points, the lowest since 1981-82. Scoring has declined each of the last four seasons in Division I.

The defender is no longer able to slide into the offensive player's path to the basket at the last moment and draw a charge. The defender has to be in position when the player on offense starts his upward motion with the ball. In addition, greater emphasis is being placed on calling fouls on defensive players who keep a hand or forearm on an opponent or use an arm bar to impede the progress of an opponent.

When it comes to an elbow above the shoulders, referees will be allowed to use a video monitor to determine the severity of the blow. If deemed inadvertent, the referee could call a player-control foul or even nothing.

Previously, a referee was required to call a flagrant-1 or flagrant-2. A flagrant-1 results in two free throws and possession for the offended team. A flagrant-2 adds an ejection for the offending player.

This play is not reviewable.

 

[ThrowBones92]

Missing that tip-in call on the floor was bad enough. But not going to the monitor to make what would have been an obvious correction was absolutely gutless. Refs hold up games all the time for ticky-tack calls and shot-clock corrections, but they won't take 10 seconds to see that they gifted a team a HUGE basket with less that 2:00 minutes to play? That's not just incompetence - it's being too arrogant to admit you might have gotten a huge call wrong.

Because, by rule, it's not reviewable. They should have got it on the court, but they aren't covered under rule to go to the monitor. If they HAD gone to the monitor without the rules allowing them to, they would have screwed up twice.

Believe me, I think they, more than anyone, would have loved to be able to go to the monitor to referee the play at the monitor. But they couldn't. And I'm not making excuses for officials, because that's a mistake that can't happen, but it takes an immense amount of eye discipline to referee through the whistle when you have a crash under the basket like that in a heated rivalry game. I'm not excusing the mistake, but I can understand why it happened.

 

[ThrowBones92]

Couldn't have said it better. Miles needs to file a complaint on that call alone, but the black ref was horrible the entire game. The most inconsistent ref I've seen in quite some time. He needs to choose a new vocation.

He almost certainly will be sending that play to the league office.

 

[ThrowBones92]

What did the announcers say about them allowing the tip? I don't think they even reviewed it? If that is not worth going to the monitor for, why even have it? It was under 2 minutes.

Under 2 minutes has nothing to do with whether they can review this play. Under two only applies to deflections causing the ball to go out of bounds, and the play must involve two or more players.

 

[ThrowBones92]

Can someone confirm if that play is allowed to be reviewed?

I've always thought the only plays that can reviewed are [1] shot clock violation, [2] who the ball went off of, [3] game clock accuracy and [4] flagrant fouls [5] who committed the foul. I may very well be wrong?

Miles seemed animated, pointing to the scorers table for a review and one of the officials put his hands up like "stop" then Miles quickly calmed down after the explanation.

First thing I'm going to say is that I hope this rule gets changed so that officials are allowed to use the monitor for obvious plays like this, in the future. For the time being, officials are not allowed to review this play.

Here are the four things that can be reviewed regarding scoring (voluntary review):
1) whether an attempt was a 2 or a 3
2) to prevent or fix a scoring mistake by the scorer at the table
3) to determine whether a score was erroneously counted or canceled as per the "correctable error" rule in Rule 2-12-1.e - this is not that play.
4) To review for a shot clock violation on successful try for goal

Here is the correctable error rule from Rule 2:
a) failing to award a merited free throw
b) awarding an unmerited free throw
c) permitting a wrong player to attempt a free throw
d) permitting a player to attempt a free throw at the wrong basket
e) erroneously counting or canceling a score
Note: in order for this to be a correctable error, the official must have erred in counting or canceling a successful try for foul according to a rule
(i.e. 1) after basket interference/GT, incorrectly counting or failing to cancel a score or
2) counting a three-point goal instead of a two-point goal). A correctable error does not involve an error in judgement.

The play in question is a judgement play. Just because it was obvious, does not mean it was not a judgement play. Think about it this way - correctable errors are administrative in nature. This was a mistake in judgement of the play, per the rules and interpretation. I understand it's confusing, but I have confirmed through a couple of people that have more experience with the rule than I that this is not reviewable.

 

[bigboxes]

Ok, so they can't review it. It would be frustrating to lose because they couldn't get the call right on the court.

 

[anon_umk0ifu6vj6zi]

Jok was wrecking into bodies on rebounds. Hell, I would have been too because they let him do it. I told my buddy they will not call it in crunch time. Honestly I cannot believe they did. Jok is a hell of a player, and smart.

 

[ThrowBones92]

Ok, so they can't review it. It would be frustrating to lose because they couldn't get the call right on the court.

Completely agree with you. Hopefully the review rule can continue to be fine tuned for the betterment of the game.

The NBA has a very good system in place for review. NCAA lags behind. But the NBA also has a staff of 70 or so officials who rotate between the court and the review center in NY, and not 1,800 officials, or whatever the count is at now.

 

[scarletred]

Jok forced some things down low in OVT and Webster defended him as well as any could with 4 fouls, truth be told I was as surprised as hell that he didn't foul out in OVT.

Hawkeye buddies were disappointed on his lack of hussle on defense but the guy can really stroke it from the outside....

Very enjoyable game finally beating Iowa and watching live with my Iowa friends after the way we lost the football game... They'll be ready for pay back on Super Bowl Sunday.

 

[schuele]

Because, by rule, it's not reviewable. They should have got it on the court, but they aren't covered under rule to go to the monitor. If they HAD gone to the monitor without the rules allowing them to, they would have screwed up twice.

Believe me, I think they, more than anyone, would have loved to be able to go to the monitor to referee the play at the monitor. But they couldn't. And I'm not making excuses for officials, because that's a mistake that can't happen, but it takes an immense amount of eye discipline to referee through the whistle when you have a crash under the basket like that in a heated rivalry game. I'm not excusing the mistake, but I can understand why it happened.

Thanks for the explanation. I could have sworn I have seen officials go to the monitor on "and one" three-point plays to determine whether it was the original shot that went in, or if it was tipped in (in which case the basket would not count). But perhaps those officials weren't supposed to review those plays, but did anyway.

 

[chicolby]

Thanks for the explanation. I could have sworn I have seen officials go to the monitor on "and one" three-point plays to determine whether it was the original shot that went in, or if it was tipped in (in which case the basket would not count). But perhaps those officials weren't supposed to review those plays, but did anyway.

To be honest, I think the ref who made the call didn't even know it went in on a tip-in. I think he thought the shot went up before the push (which it did) and it just fell. I see no other reasonable explanation to come up with that decision. I think they really just blundered it and no official had their eye on it - which is EXACTLY when replay should be used.

 

[ThrowBones92]

Thanks for the explanation. I could have sworn I have seen officials go to the monitor on "and one" three-point plays to determine whether it was the original shot that went in, or if it was tipped in (in which case the basket would not count). But perhaps those officials weren't supposed to review those plays, but did anyway.

I'll admit, some of the language in the rule book is confusing regarding the review rule. Look at the KSU/KU game. Three VERY good officials on that game. They went to the monitor on a shot clock violation/shooting foul - "which happened first" play. By rule, not allowed to go to the monitor unless the try for goal is successful, and then you can only go to look at whether the shot clock expired prior to the ball leaving the shooter's hand, can't review if the foul happened before the shot clock expired. It needs to be decided on the court, as you cannot use the monitor in that situation. But when the pressure is on, it's easy to make mistakes. Super easy for me to sit here and tell you what the rule is after-the-fact. When you're on the court and have to make a decision, have coaches and fans hollering and the game is in the balance...it's not so easy.

 

[ThrowBones92]

To be honest, I think the ref who made the call didn't even know it went in on a tip-in. I think he thought the shot went up before the push (which it did) and it just fell. I see no other reasonable explanation to come up with that decision. I think they really just blundered it and no official had their eye on it - which is EXACTLY when replay should be used.

Yup. And to be honest, that official, in the lead position (on the endline) should not be looking up at the ball. His responsibility is to stay with the play and the players. The outside official (and only one had a clear look at it, being that the play happened on that side of the hoop) is responsible for BI/GT and plays like that. The official on the other side of the court was at FT line extended, so he can't clearly see hands tipping the ball from that side. He has to be 100% if he is going to bring information to the crew on that play. So, when people say, I don't know how all 3 officials missed it, well, only one was able to see the tip and had responsibility for it, and if his eyes went to the floor with the players, even for a split second long enough to miss the Iowa player tipping the ball and then looked back up at the hoop and saw the ball bouncing around, then the whole crew missed it. It happens fast and you can't see the play twice. Very tough play and it requires discipline from the entire crew to get it right.

 

[ThrowBones92]

To be honest, I think the ref who made the call didn't even know it went in on a tip-in. I think he thought the shot went up before the push (which it did) and it just fell. I see no other reasonable explanation to come up with that decision. I think they really just blundered it and no official had their eye on it - which is EXACTLY when replay should be used.

I agree - hope the NCAA basketball review rules are improved.

 

[schuele]

I could understand them missing the tip-in if the ball stayed right up near the rim and someone got a fingernail on it. But in this case, it was well off the rim and I actually think it was tipped by a Nebraska player first, then the Iowa player tipped it in. How all three sets of eyes missed that is beyond me, but at least it didn't cost NU the game.

 

[scarletred]

I could understand them missing the tip-in if the ball stayed right up near the rim and someone got a fingernail on it. But in this case, it was well off the rim and I actually think it was tipped by a Nebraska player first, then the Iowa player tipped it in. How all three sets of eyes missed that is beyond me, but at least it didn't cost NU the game.

And God for bid if it did. Believe they missed a goal tending call in the first half I thought was a brutal call are well.

 

[ThrowBones92]

I could understand them missing the tip-in if the ball stayed right up near the rim and someone got a fingernail on it. But in this case, it was well off the rim and I actually think it was tipped by a Nebraska player first, then the Iowa player tipped it in. How all three sets of eyes missed that is beyond me, but at least it didn't cost NU the game.

I understand the frustration. From the TV angle, it looks like a pretty easy call to get. If your eyes aren't looking in the right place, you miss it, and it happens fast. Plain and simple. With all the action going on under the hoop, the outside official lost his discipline and missed it. It's tough because, yes, he's responsible for the ball/above the rim play, and he's also responsible for players on the floor. It takes all 3 doing their jobs and working the system. If one of them slips up, even momentarily, all 3 look really bad.

It wasn't the lead official's fault or responsibility, but he ends up getting pulled into it looking like a failure. Again, there was probably 1 guy who could see it, not all 3. And, all three are not responsible for seeing the tip-in on playside. The strongside trail official is responsible for it. So if the other two are counting on him to referee his responsibility, then they are going to referee their responsibilities.

 

[jedihusker]

I understand the frustration. From the TV angle, it looks like a pretty easy call to get. If your eyes aren't looking in the right place, you miss it, and it happens fast. Plain and simple. With all the action going on under the hoop, the outside official lost his discipline and missed it. It's tough because, yes, he's responsible for the ball/above the rim play, and he's also responsible for players on the floor. It takes all 3 doing their jobs and working the system. If one of them slips up, even momentarily, all 3 look really bad.

It wasn't the lead official's fault or responsibility, but he ends up getting pulled into it looking like a failure. Again, there was probably 1 guy who could see it, not all 3. And, all three are not responsible for seeing the tip-in on playside. The strongside trail official is responsible for it. So if the other two are counting on him to referee his responsibility, then they are going to referee their responsibilities.

I was sitting in section 300, so approximately 30 feet in the air, on the opposite end of the court from the action AND on the opposite SIDE of the basket from where the tip-in occured, and I saw it happen live plain as day. I saw the ball rolling around, the rim, thought it looked like it might not go in, heard the whistle; assumed, since they hadn't been calling fouls on Iowa for their overly physical play under the basket all night, that it was probably being called on Nebraska; and then saw the Iowa player jump and tip the ball in. With how immediate the very strong crowd reaction was to them counting the basket, before any replay had even been shown on the big screen, I'm fairly certain most everyone in the arena saw it happen that way. Even the annoying Iowa fan sitting a few seats away from me, who was pretty vocal all game about things, just kinda sat there, not saying anything, like he realized his team was just given a huge gift. Apparently the only people who didn't see what actually happened live, were the 3 guys in stripes, all who were within somewhere around 20 feet of the play.

I know from other posts in other threads that you are a ref yourself, and I've also seen that you are willing to twist yourself into some pretty ridiculous knots to excuse poor officiating. There is simply no excuse; nada, zero, none, for none of the refs seeing the Iowa player jump up and tip the ball in. No excuse, the refs blew it plain and simple, and that's a pretty darn big call to blow, handing a team two undeserved points at that point in the game.

 

[ThrowBones92]

I was sitting in section 300, so approximately 30 feet in the air, on the opposite end of the court from the action AND on the opposite SIDE of the basket from where the tip-in occured, and I saw it happen live plain as day. I saw the ball rolling around, the rim, thought it looked like it might not go in, heard the whistle; assumed, since they hadn't been calling fouls on Iowa for their overly physical play under the basket all night, that it was probably being called on Nebraska; and then saw the Iowa player jump and tip the ball in. With how immediate the very strong crowd reaction was to them counting the basket, before any replay had even been shown on the big screen, I'm fairly certain most everyone in the arena saw it happen that way. Even the annoying Iowa fan sitting a few seats away from me, who was pretty vocal all game about things, just kinda sat there, not saying anything, like he realized his team was just given a huge gift. Apparently the only people who didn't see what actually happened live, were the 3 guys in stripes, all who were within somewhere around 20 feet of the play.

I know from other posts in other threads that you are a ref yourself, and I've also seen that you are willing to twist yourself into some pretty ridiculous knots to excuse poor officiating. There is simply no excuse; nada, zero, none, for none of the refs seeing the Iowa player jump up and tip the ball in. No excuse, the refs blew it plain and simple, and that's a pretty darn big call to blow, handing a team two undeserved points at that point in the game.

If you read my posts, I said that call needs to be made. I am not making an excuse for anyone. I've stated this many times, but I'm simply trying to provide a different perspective from that which most people on this board have. I respect your perspective as a fan and that you see things a certain way. You seem unwilling to consider anything I have to say unless it jives with what you believe. That's fine. You do you.

You realize that the further you are from a play, the easier it is to see the whole play, right? The closer you get, the more difficult it is to see multiple facets of the play. Fans watch the game different then officials. They watch the ball. They watch some offball movement. But for the most part, unless they've played or officiated the game, they're watching the action around the ball, so I'm not surprised that you saw the tip in. Officials are officiating primary and secondary coverage areas and competitive matchups, sometimes having nothing to do with the play. I'm just trying to explain what some of the challenges are and why mistakes are made. One more time for you, I'm not excusing mistakes. I'm helping people see from a referees perspective why mistakes can be made.

Regarding the "no excuse that none of the three didn't see it" - so do you think all three of them should see it? Should we have had 6 eyes on the ball? Or just 4? Or 2? If not all 3, which official is responsible for it? All of this is laid out pretty clearly in the mechanics manual. So when I try to offer an explanation about what was going on, what official was responsible for what, I'm not making excuses. I think I offered it in this thread (if not, its somewhere else and I'll go find it for you), but I explained which single official is primarily responsible for seeing the tip and making sure the bucket isn't allowed.

 

[anon_umk0ifu6vj6zi]

Yup. And to be honest, that official, in the lead position (on the endline) should not be looking up at the ball. His responsibility is to stay with the play and the players. The outside official (and only one had a clear look at it, being that the play happened on that side of the hoop) is responsible for BI/GT and plays like that. The official on the other side of the court was at FT line extended, so he can't clearly see hands tipping the ball from that side. He has to be 100% if he is going to bring information to the crew on that play. So, when people say, I don't know how all 3 officials missed it, well, only one was able to see the tip and had responsibility for it, and if his eyes went to the floor with the players, even for a split second long enough to miss the Iowa player tipping the ball and then looked back up at the hoop and saw the ball bouncing around, then the whole crew missed it. It happens fast and you can't see the play twice. Very tough play and it requires discipline from the entire crew to get it right.

Sorry, but that is crap. The same official you claim was the only one reaponsible for watching the ball, also came in from almost half court, on the opposite side to overturn a "judgement call" made by the ref who was 6 feet away when the ball was tipped out. Save the good old boy explanation. I was directly behind the guy, and there is no way in hell he saw the play. There were many blown calls both ways, and your good old boy explanations are why things never improve. We have been through this show before. We all know the "always back your fellow ref" crap you are taught at the first class.

 

[anon_umk0ifu6vj6zi]

If you read my posts, I said that call needs to be made. I am not making an excuse for anyone. I've stated this many times, but I'm simply trying to provide a different perspective from that which most people on this board have. I respect your perspective as a fan and that you see things a certain way. You seem unwilling to consider anything I have to say unless it jives with what you believe. That's fine. You do you.

You realize that the further you are from a play, the easier it is to see the whole play, right? The closer you get, the more difficult it is to see multiple facets of the play. Fans watch the game different then officials. They watch the ball. They watch some offball movement. But for the most part, unless they've played or officiated the game, they're watching the action around the ball, so I'm not surprised that you saw the tip in. Officials are officiating primary and secondary coverage areas and competitive matchups, sometimes having nothing to do with the play. I'm just trying to explain what some of the challenges are and why mistakes are made. One more time for you, I'm not excusing mistakes. I'm helping people see from a referees perspective why mistakes can be made.

Regarding the "no excuse that none of the three didn't see it" - so do you think all three of them should see it? Should we have had 6 eyes on the ball? Or just 4? Or 2? If not all 3, which official is responsible for it? All of this is laid out pretty clearly in the mechanics manual. So when I try to offer an explanation about what was going on, what official was responsible for what, I'm not making excuses. I think I offered it in this thread (if not, its somewhere else and I'll go find it for you), but I explained which single official is primarily responsible for seeing the tip and making sure the bucket isn't allowed.

Why is it that the ref closest to the ball even rules on ANYTHING posession related? Because you just said that because an official is further away, they can see the entire play better.

 

[TwinsRRUs]

I was sitting in section 300, so approximately 30 feet in the air, on the opposite end of the court from the action AND on the opposite SIDE of the basket from where the tip-in occured, and I saw it happen live plain as day. I saw the ball rolling around, the rim, thought it looked like it might not go in, heard the whistle; assumed, since they hadn't been calling fouls on Iowa for their overly physical play under the basket all night, that it was probably being called on Nebraska; and then saw the Iowa player jump and tip the ball in. With how immediate the very strong crowd reaction was to them counting the basket, before any replay had even been shown on the big screen, I'm fairly certain most everyone in the arena saw it happen that way. Even the annoying Iowa fan sitting a few seats away from me, who was pretty vocal all game about things, just kinda sat there, not saying anything, like he realized his team was just given a huge gift. Apparently the only people who didn't see what actually happened live, were the 3 guys in stripes, all who were within somewhere around 20 feet of the play.

I know from other posts in other threads that you are a ref yourself, and I've also seen that you are willing to twist yourself into some pretty ridiculous knots to excuse poor officiating. There is simply no excuse; nada, zero, none, for none of the refs seeing the Iowa player jump up and tip the ball in. No excuse, the refs blew it plain and simple, and that's a pretty darn big call to blow, handing a team two undeserved points at that point in the game.

You realize that the further you are from a play, the easier it is to see the whole play, right? The closer you get, the more difficult it is to see multiple facets of the play. Fans watch the game different then officials. They watch the ball. They watch some offball movement. But for the most part, unless they've played or officiated the game, they're watching the action around the ball, so I'm not surprised that you saw the tip in. Officials are officiating primary and secondary coverage areas and competitive matchups, sometimes having nothing to do with the play. I'm just trying to explain what some of the challenges are and why mistakes are made. One more time for you, I'm not excusing mistakes. I'm helping people see from a referees perspective why mistakes can be made.

Regarding the "no excuse that none of the three didn't see it" - so do you think all three of them should see it? Should we have had 6 eyes on the ball? Or just 4? Or 2? If not all 3, which official is responsible for it? All of this is laid out pretty clearly in the mechanics manual. So when I try to offer an explanation about what was going on, what official was responsible for what, I'm not making excuses. I think I offered it in this thread (if not, its somewhere else and I'll go find it for you), but I explained which single official is primarily responsible for seeing the tip and making sure the bucket isn't allowed.

I have never been a ref before, but two of my brothers started reffing football this past fall.

One of my brother's kids has played football and my brother was at every one of his games yelling at the refs for bad calls. He was not the loudest fan yelling, but he wasn't far from it. At least he didn't cuss at the refs.

Now that he refs, he realizes that you can't see crap from on the field where you are reffing. When he was in the stands, he could see the whole play and always seemed to see every penalty that wasn't called and never saw the penalty that was called against his son's team. (Imagine that)

My dad was in the stands yelling at the refs during a junior high football game and my mom pointed out to him that two of the 3 refs were his kids. He didn't even recognize them or know they were reffing.

After the game he went to talk to them and told them how bad they were, so they had to explain to him that they are in a certain spot to ref a certain part of the game and have to pay attention to that part. They need their eyes to be on the lineman looking for holding and jump starts while another is watching for whatever else and so on.

It's amazing how your point of view on reffing can change once you have done it.

 

[TwinsRRUs]

Why anyone would ever actually want to be a referee is beyond me.

I told my brothers to never ask me again because I will ALWAYS say no.

It is a lose-lose situation every time, especially for someone like me or my brothers that have never gone to a referee class or have reffed before.

With that being said, any referee had better be honest, call an even game for both teams, and do the job right!