Barthel gone???? Hearing Texas

[Tuco Salamanca]

FWIW Tim Albin is now at Charlotte,

 

[Tuco Salamanca]

I try to stay out of things like this, it is an endless disagreement. But...

For all the "run the ball like TO did" folks who are still bringing that battle cry up, isn't that what Frank did? I'm not sure if he didn't recruit as well as Tom did or if the program didn't develop players as well, or both could be true. But when I hear that we need to get back to the TO days and run the ball, that the fullback and option FB will work again like it did then, I think, didn't we really try that? Solich was handed the keys, he was as close to the guru as one could be. Tom obviously had confidence in Frank's ability to not only spot talent, but recruit, build a program and keep coaches together - whether that happened and to what degree is up for debate nearly daily on this site.

I truly don't know nor do I care how that all shook out with Byrne. I have been involved in lots of major decisions over the years and later was amazed how little some who were directly involved remembered the facts or maybe it was me - the mind has a way of playing self defense in some of these cases. I do have a hard time believing that Tom made the decision completely on his own without any input or blessing from others - does that even sound like something he would do? We are talking about a person who is true to his ethical conduct. That comment should bring some blather alone.

There were some dark years at Nebraska with coaches and AD's for sure. History would likely not have been as kind to Devaney had he not hit the jackpot in hiring a young Tom Osborne as his OC. I am of the opinion that Bob's one decision changed the face of Nebraska football forever. We flounder before and after him in just about every area to the point where Bo looks like a hall of fame coach. (tongue in cheek)

Whatever, I just want to see Nebraska truly compete again and it hasn't done so for so long, it is hard to remember when it was. Maybe next year or the year after that......

I agree with much of what you wrote. However, Osborne's ethical conduct is not as pure as many fans want it to be, especially after 1992. There was the hiding of the weapon used in a shooting, there was the lack of control and minimal consequences for players like Christian Peter and Lawrence Phillips to name a couple of incidents. If he and Byrne did not have a disagreement over whether or not there should be a national search for the new coach, why is Osborne making the announcement that Solich was the new coach when the AD was not in town? Why was he making the announcement at all. I am not saying that people above Byrne, like a chancellor didn't have input, but there is little doubt that Byrne himself was not involved with the decision.

 

[scarletred]

I agree with much of what you wrote. However, Osborne's ethical conduct is not as pure as many fans want it to be, especially after 1992. There was the hiding of the weapon used in a shooting, there was the lack of control and minimal consequences for players like Christian Peter and Lawrence Phillips to name a couple of incidents. If he and Byrne did not have a disagreement over whether or not there should be a national search for the new coach, why is Osborne making the announcement that Solich was the new coach when the AD was not in town? Why was he making the announcement at all. I am not saying that people above Byrne, like a chancellor didn't have input, but there is little doubt that Byrne himself was not involved with the decision.

So you really think that TO never had conservations that he wanted Solich to replace him after the 97 season?

I think Byrne knew of his intentions that he wanted Franky to replace him..

 

[Tuco Salamanca]

So you really think that TO never had conservations that he wanted Solich to replace him after the 97 season?

I think Byrne knew of his intentions that he wanted Franky to replace him..

I have no doubts that there were conversations. I just think Tom either made a public announcement that would be very difficult to walk back or went over Byrne's head.

 

[inWV]

I agree with much of what you wrote. However, Osborne's ethical conduct is not as pure as many fans want it to be, especially after 1992. There was the hiding of the weapon used in a shooting, there was the lack of control and minimal consequences for players like Christian Peter and Lawrence Phillips to name a couple of incidents. If he and Byrne did not have a disagreement over whether or not there should be a national search for the new coach, why is Osborne making the announcement that Solich was the new coach when the AD was not in town? Why was he making the announcement at all. I am not saying that people above Byrne, like a chancellor didn't have input, but there is little doubt that Byrne himself was not involved with the decision.

I suspect Byrne wasn't involved because TO knew what he wanted to do and didn't agree with it. So when the opportunity presented itself, he froze him out. Of course it was improper, but then again, the last two coaches that achieved routine 9 and 10 win seasons were hired by TO. The coaches at NU that were hired post-TO by others have a combined record of 74-85.

 

[Tuco Salamanca]

I suspect Byrne wasn't involved because TO knew what he wanted to do and didn't agree with it. So when the opportunity presented itself, he froze him out. Of course it was improper, but then again, the last two coaches that achieved routine 9 and 10 win seasons were hired by TO. The coaches at NU that were hired post-TO by others have a combined record of 74-85.

See this is the type of argument that no one can win. We don't know who would have been interested in the job in 1997 because Osborne made a decision without interviewing anyone. The Pelini hiring was the choice between 3 people in Gill, Pelini and Grobe. Again, was there a real national search or just limited scope of people that Osborne trusted to do it his way. IF you do a national search in 1997, perhaps you don't need to do another in 2002, and 2014. Maybe you do, but there is not way to prove a hypothetical that a different coach wouldn't have continued the success at a higher level than Solich.

 

[scarletred]

I suspect Byrne wasn't involved because TO knew what he wanted to do and didn't agree with it. So when the opportunity presented itself, he froze him out. Of course it was improper, but then again, the last two coaches that achieved routine 9 and 10 win seasons were hired by TO. The coaches at NU that were hired post-TO by others have a combined record of 74-85.

I’m just saying Byrne knew what intentions TO had in picking Solich..
Osborne felt it was his program and he wanted to be the one that picked his successor..

The kitchen sink wasn’t broke and the program was on solid ground not to make a possible radical move.. TO thought the program still had strong stability..

 

[Tuco Salamanca]

I’m just saying Byrne knew what intentions TO had in picking Solich..
Osborne felt it was his program and he wanted to be the one that picked his successor..

The kitchen sink wasn’t broke and the program was on solid ground not to make a possible radical move.. TO thought the program still had strong stability..

I don't think Osborne understood the apparent lack of respect some of the other staff members had for Solich, or that many would retire within the next 5 years, and that the answer isn't always just promoting from within because it worked for Devaney with Osborne.

The team went from national champs, to 7-7 within 5 years, we can say that he averaged 9 wins but is misleading. Similar to those that want to discount the Rhule's record in year 3 at Baylor and Temple is 21-7, some will just use the old line, he is not even a .500 coach at his 2 P4 stops again not taking into account the improvement from year 1 to year 3.

 

[Laner2]

I try to stay out of things like this, it is an endless disagreement. But...

For all the "run the ball like TO did" folks who are still bringing that battle cry up, isn't that what Frank did? I'm not sure if he didn't recruit as well as Tom did or if the program didn't develop players as well, or both could be true. But when I hear that we need to get back to the TO days and run the ball, that the fullback and option FB will work again like it did then, I think, didn't we really try that? Solich was handed the keys, he was as close to the guru as one could be. Tom obviously had confidence in Frank's ability to not only spot talent, but recruit, build a program and keep coaches together - whether that happened and to what degree is up for debate nearly daily on this site.

I truly don't know nor do I care how that all shook out with Byrne. I have been involved in lots of major decisions over the years and later was amazed how little some who were directly involved remembered the facts or maybe it was me - the mind has a way of playing self defense in some of these cases. I do have a hard time believing that Tom made the decision completely on his own without any input or blessing from others - does that even sound like something he would do? We are talking about a person who is true to his ethical conduct. That comment should bring some blather alone.

There were some dark years at Nebraska with coaches and AD's for sure. History would likely not have been as kind to Devaney had he not hit the jackpot in hiring a young Tom Osborne as his OC. I am of the opinion that Bob's one decision changed the face of Nebraska football forever. We flounder before and after him in just about every area to the point where Bo looks like a hall of fame coach. (tongue in cheek)

Whatever, I just want to see Nebraska truly compete again and it hasn't done so for so long, it is hard to remember when it was. Maybe next year or the year after that......

Tom's assistants were getting long in the tooth and did not want to travel to recruit kids. Great developers and in-game coaches, but recruiting definitely fell off after TO retired.

 

[inWV]

I’m just saying Byrne knew what intentions TO had in picking Solich..
Osborne felt it was his program and he wanted to be the one that picked his successor..

The kitchen sink wasn’t broke and the program was on solid ground not to make a possible radical move.. TO thought the program still had strong stability..

The program did have strong stability, as Frank won 75% of his games. Frank's pick of Bohl as DC turned out to be a mistake, but Bohl actually turned out to be a pretty decent head coach, so it shows how hard such decisions can be.

 

[inWV]

I don't think Osborne understood the apparent lack of respect some of the other staff members had for Solich, or that many would retire within the next 5 years, and that the answer isn't always just promoting from within because it worked for Devaney with Osborne.

The team went from national champs, to 7-7 within 5 years, we can say that he averaged 9 wins but is misleading. Similar to those that want to discount the Rhule's record in year 3 at Baylor and Temple is 21-7, some will just use the old line, he is not even a .500 coach at his 2 P4 stops again not taking into account the improvement from year 1 to year 3.

Given that they worked in the same building, I doubt TO was clueless as to how the other coaches felt about Solich.

 

[inWV]

Tom's assistants were getting long in the tooth and did not want to travel to recruit kids. Great developers and in-game coaches, but recruiting definitely fell off after TO retired.

Interesting that the remaining old guard cleared out (except for Ron and he wasn't so much old guard) after the 7-7 season and Frank had a much younger staff in 2003. The defense was lights out and the team won 10 games. The improvement wasn't enough for Stevie P and he pushed the delete button.

 

[Tuco Salamanca]

Given that they worked in the same building, I doubt TO was clueless as to how the other coaches felt about Solich.

Well then he ignored it and hired Solich anyway. Either way

 

[inWV]

Well then he ignored it and hired Solich anyway. Either way

The particulars of what was going on over 20 years ago is bit foggy to me. However, anyone who had reservations held their tongue while NU was stacking wins in the late 90s. I am assuming there was a demand to can some coaches by Stevie P when he showed up after the 7-7 season and Frank complied. So I would think the disgruntlement level among that crew of guys was pretty high and comments not for attribution began to show up.

 

[Husker Todd]

Interesting that the remaining old guard cleared out (except for Ron and he wasn't so much old guard) after the 7-7 season and Frank had a much younger staff in 2003. The defense was lights out and the team won 10 games. The improvement wasn't enough for Stevie P and he pushed the delete button.

I always love the revisionist histories of Frank’s final season and Bo’s 9 win seasons. Here is how I remember them, winning 9 meh games and then getting bent over and hollowed out by 4 superior teams. Let’s take a look at Frank’s final season, shall we?

Non Con
So. Miss. 9-4 (C-USA, 🥱)
Utah St. 3-9
Troy St. 6-6
Penn St. 3-9

Big XII
First the wins
OSU 9-4
TAMU 4-8
ISU 2-10
Kansas 6-7
CU 5-7

Now the losses
Mizz 8-5 lost 41-24
Texas 10-3 lost 31-7
KSU 11-4 lost 38-9

Alamo Bowl
Mich. St. 8-5

Was the defense lights out, or was it that they played some pretty pedestrian teams and when they faced real competition they got the brakes beat off them? Now you could break down Bo’s seasons here the same way and it would look the same. I was not a fan of the Bo hire from the beginning, I saw the cracks in his defense in 2003 in the 3 losses. Those same issues would continue to plague him as a head coach. I was onboard when Frank was hired, but as time went on I could see that as the roster began to have fewer of Tom’s recruits and more of Frank’s recruits, that hiring a lifelong assistant was the wrong choice. Bill Byrne should have been able to conduct a National search for a proven winner.

 

[inWV]

I always love the revisionist histories of Frank’s final season and Bo’s 9 win seasons. Here is how I remember them, winning 9 meh games and then getting bent over and hollowed out by 4 superior teams. Let’s take a look at Frank’s final season, shall we?

Non Con
So. Miss. 9-4 (C-USA, 🥱)
Utah St. 3-9
Troy St. 6-6
Penn St. 3-9

Big XII
First the wins
OSU 9-4
TAMU 4-8
ISU 2-10
Kansas 6-7
CU 5-7

Now the losses
Mizz 8-5 lost 41-24
Texas 10-3 lost 31-7
KSU 11-4 lost 38-9

Alamo Bowl
Mich. St. 8-5

Was the defense lights out, or was it that they played some pretty pedestrian teams and when they faced real competition they got the brakes beat off them? Now you could break down Bo’s seasons here the same way and it would look the same. I was not a fan of the Bo hire from the beginning, I saw the cracks in his defense in 2003 in the 3 losses. Those same issues would continue to plague him as a head coach. I was onboard when Frank was hired, but as time went on I could see that as the roster began to have fewer of Tom’s recruits and more of Frank’s recruits, that hiring a lifelong assistant was the wrong choice. Bill Byrne should have been able to conduct a National search for a proven winner.

Check out Byrnes track record at TAMU. He hired Sumlin on his way out the door but Kevin wasn’t necessarily a “proven winner”. The other guys were basically won about Half of their games. TO>Byrne.

 

[Husker Todd]

Check out Byrnes track record at TAMU. He hired Sumlin on his way out the door but Kevin wasn’t necessarily a “proven winner”. The other guys were basically won about Half of their games. TO>Byrne.

Remind me again what TAMU has done in their football history that is so impressive. What Byrne did at TAMU doesn’t really concern me, what he did or didn’t do at Nebraska does. Hiring someone to worthless TAMU is a lot different than hiring someone at Nebraska. Remember this was a Nebraska program that was coming off its 36th straight winning season, it’s 29th straight season with 9 or more wins, 5th NC in the last 28 years, 3 NC in 4 years. Hiring a career assistant is not the way to go, we could have had our pick. It’s possible Byrne might have screwed it up, but we will never know. Chances are he would have had a better chance of getting the right guy at Nebraska than at lame TAMU.