Are losing seasons a big deal anymore?

[Solana Beach Husker]

Just looking at ND, UCLA , TCU ,TEXAS, MICHIGAN STATE, OREGON, MISS STATE, OLE MISS

These are all teams(exempt Texas) that were in the top 10 within the last year or two. They are all teams that have coaches we likely would have preferred over Mike Riley or Bo Pelini. They are all teams that may or will finish with losing records and with 6 losses or more this year. Is it fair to treat a losing season as a firing offense? If TO would have had a losing season in 1990 he would have been canned for sure but to me the times have changed. Scholarship, academic limits combined with mass transfers, more injuries, and more early outs to the NFL creates a huge talent disparity from one year to the year for some teams. I think we will taste it next year. Thoughts?

 

[rrthusker]

I'm surprised by TCU, Michigan State and Oregon because they have good coaches and staffs. The others you mentioned have guys in way over their heads. Kelly and Mora are frauds as head coaches.

 

[RedSea]

I think yes.

 

[phoenix4nu]

I'm surprised by TCU, Michigan State and Oregon because they have good coaches and staffs. The others you mentioned have guys in way over their heads. Kelly and Mora are frauds as head coaches.

You don't put Mark Helfrich in the "over their heads" category?

 

[Pennsyhusker]

Just looking at ND, UCLA , TCU ,TEXAS, MICHIGAN STATE, OREGON, MISS STATE, OLE MISS

These are all teams(exempt Texas) that were in the top 10 within the last year or two. They are all teams that have coaches we likely would have preferred over Mike Riley or Bo Pelini. They are all teams that may or will finish with losing records and with 6 losses or more this year. Is it fair to treat a losing season as a firing offense? If TO would have had a losing season in 1990 he would have been canned for sure but to me the times have changed. Scholarship, academic limits combined with mass transfers, more injuries, and more early outs to the NFL creates a huge talent disparity from one year to the year for some teams. I think we will taste it next year. Thoughts?

Tom Osborne would not have been canned if had had a losing season in 1990. He had been too successful for too long for one bad season to get him fired at that point. If he had had a losing season in 1976 or 77 then yes, he would have been in a lot of danger. But not 1990

But to your larger point: a losing season at a blue blood program is a very big deal. Do it once and you are forgiven perhaps. But do it twice and you are toast.

 

[rrthusker]

You don't put Mark Helfrich in the "over their heads" category?

Not sure yet. He did beat a good Utah team yesterday.

 

[nebcountry]

OP has a number of questions.

Are losing seasons a big deal? YES, and it all boils down to money. Bowls, 3rd tier tv rights for some schools, ticket sales and donations, and fan memorabilia revenue.

Is it fair to treat a losing season as a firing offense? Seems more of a philosophical question with the "fair" part. Is it "fair" to fire an underperforming employee? Is it "fair" to expect more if you provide more? In general and without basis of fact, I tend to think coaches are allowed time to prove their incompetence before being fired. I will use Mark Dantonio as my example. I don't see Dantonio being fired this year with a losing season. 3 in a row, ya, I could see him being fired. Charlie strong is not being fired for this year, this will be 3 consecutive losing seasons for him.

"I think we will taste it next year. Thoughts?" Upon introspection I'm starting to feel like a bad fan. Next year I'm hoping we win at least 8 regular season games. I do not see us firing the current staff next year for a losing season, unless it's catastrophic (i.e. 3 wins, maybe 4 wins). This is a change in my thinking and is independent on what I think is the proper course of action.

 

[Pennsyhusker]

OP has a number of questions.

Are losing seasons a big deal? YES, and it all boils down to money. Bowls, 3rd tier tv rights for some schools, ticket sales and donations, and fan memorabilia revenue.

Is it fair to treat a losing season as a firing offense? Seems more of a philosophical question with the "fair" part. Is it "fair" to fire an underperforming employee? Is it "fair" to expect more if you provide more? In general and without basis of fact, I tend to think coaches are allowed time to prove their incompetence before being fired. I will use Mark Dantonio as my example. I don't see Dantonio being fired this year with a losing season. 3 in a row, ya, I could see him being fired. Charlie strong is not being fired for this year, this will be 3 consecutive losing seasons for him.

"I think we will taste it next year. Thoughts?" Upon introspection I'm starting to feel like a bad fan. Next year I'm hoping we win at least 8 regular season games. I do not see us firing the current staff next year for a losing season, unless it's catastrophic (i.e. 3 wins, maybe 4 wins). This is a change in my thinking and is independent on what I think is the proper course of action.

Good post. I actually fear that next year will be a transition year where we take a step back in terms of our total number of wins. This year represents the end of the TA era and shows that Riley's staff learned how to adapt to Bo's recruits. Starting next year we shift to more of the offense Riley really wants to run. And who knows? Maybe we go 12-0. But my guess is there will be growing pains.
I just hope our fans are patient. I see year four of the Riley era as our break out year. I would love for it to be next year. But I have my doubts

 

[cubsker]

looks like 6 absolute gimmes next year

Arky St
N Illy
Rutgers
Illy
NW at home (i know, but still, cmon)
Purdont

at Oregon, PSU, and Minny
home vs Ohio st, wisky, iowa

9-3 seems like a reasonable goal but I haven't really reviewed our roster for what we'll have and I have a lot of doubts about Tanner Lee.

 

[Pennsyhusker]

looks like 6 absolute gimmes next year

Arky St
N Illy
Rutgers
Illy
NW at home (i know, but still, cmon)
Purdont

at Oregon, PSU, and Minny
home vs Ohio st, wisky, iowa

9-3 seems like a reasonable goal but I haven't really reviewed our roster for what we'll have and I have a lot of doubts about Tanner Lee.

I agree with your breakdown of games. What are your doubts about Lee? And if he falters, what about POB? Still too young???

 

[Truehuskerfan]

I do find it a little amusing that people spent most of this season talking about what a liability Tommy Armstrong is(or at least "Bad Tommy") and now I hear people saying that being without him is going to hurt us and Tanner Lee is a liability. Why does it seem like some people can never seem to praise or appreciate our QBs until they are gone and they praise them in retrospect as a way of denigrating the current QB?

I guess in general I don't see the reasoning for doubting us being good next year. The schedule sets up favorably for the most part with most of our toughest games at home. If we do take a step back next year and year 4 of the Riley era is the real breakout year, it better be a major breakout, because the schedule is tough in 2018. Ohio State, Michigan and Wisconsin all on the road and a nonconference game against Colorado at home. Nobody knows whether Colorado will be as good in two years as they are now, but it certainly doesn't look like they will be the easy win people thought they were when they were scheduled. Really, I think if you believe that Mike Riley is the right coach for us now(I do), then I don't see why somebody who believes that thinks that we will or should take a step back next year in terms of wins.

 

[GBRhuskers]

Tom Osborne would not have been canned if had had a losing season in 1990.

Anyone thinking the Devaney would've fired Osborne in 1990, or any year prior, isn't living in reality. Real hard to take people serious with non-sense (hyphen, uh oh) like that.

 

[Pennsyhusker]

I do find it a little amusing that people spent most of this season talking about what a liability Tommy Armstrong is(or at least "Bad Tommy") and now I hear people saying that being without him is going to hurt us and Tanner Lee is a liability. Why does it seem like some people can never seem to praise or appreciate our QBs until they are gone and they praise them in retrospect as a way of denigrating the current QB?

I guess in general I don't see the reasoning for doubting us being good next year. The schedule sets up favorably for the most part with most of our toughest games at home. If we do take a step back next year and year 4 of the Riley era is the real breakout year, it better be a major breakout, because the schedule is tough in 2018. Ohio State, Michigan and Wisconsin all on the road and a nonconference game against Colorado at home. Nobody knows whether Colorado will be as good in two years as they are now, but it certainly doesn't look like they will be the easy win people thought they were when they were scheduled. Really, I think if you believe that Mike Riley is the right coach for us now(I do), then I don't see why somebody who believes that thinks that we will or should take a step back next year in terms of wins.

I said I "fear" we could take a step back next year. I stopped short of actually predicting it. Way too early. And being a bit concerned that you might take a step back in a year where you are breaking in a new QB and transitioning to a different style of offense and losing a ton of seniors, is hardly alarmist or pessimistic or calling the coaches out. I like Riley as I have said in many posts. And I posted what I did in this thread in order to highlight the need to be patient with these coaches, who I like, if we do take a step back next year.

You have a way of taking everything I post, exaggerating my main point, and then using it to accuse me of something.
Stop it.

 

[Truehuskerfan]

I said I "fear" we could take a step back next year. I stopped short of actually predicting it. Way too early. And being a bit concerned that you might take a step back in a year where you are breaking in a new QB and transitioning to a different style of offense and losing a ton of seniors, is hardly alarmist or pessimistic or calling the coaches out. I like Riley as I have said in many posts. And I posted what I did in this thread in order to highlight the need to be patient with these coaches, who I like, if we do take a step back next year.

You have a way of taking everything I post, exaggerating my main point, and then using it to accuse me of something.
Stop it.

And you are overreacting to what I am saying. I didn't make my post as a way of responding directly to your post. If I was doing that, I would have quoted your post. I was reacting to comments from more than one person, including, but not limited to you and I was not "accusing" you of anything.

 

[kaz36]

Not sure yet. He did beat a good Utah team yesterday.

I think where Helfrich and Oregon has gotten themselves in trouble is that they have relied on the grad QB transfer and have not really developed a QB since Mariota was there. It worked initially, but finally bit them in the butt this year. I think they have other issues too, but that one is glaring.

 

[rrthusker]

I think where Helfrich and Oregon has gotten themselves in trouble is that they have relied on the grad QB transfer and have not really developed a QB since Mariota was there. It worked initially, but finally bit them in the butt this year. I think they have other issues too, but that one is glaring.

Excellent point.

 

[nebcountry]

I do find it a little amusing that people spent most of this season talking about what a liability Tommy Armstrong is(or at least "Bad Tommy") and now I hear people saying that being without him is going to hurt us and Tanner Lee is a liability. Why does it seem like some people can never seem to praise or appreciate our QBs until they are gone and they praise them in retrospect as a way of denigrating the current QB?

I guess in general I don't see the reasoning for doubting us being good next year. The schedule sets up favorably for the most part with most of our toughest games at home. If we do take a step back next year and year 4 of the Riley era is the real breakout year, it better be a major breakout, because the schedule is tough in 2018. Ohio State, Michigan and Wisconsin all on the road and a nonconference game against Colorado at home. Nobody knows whether Colorado will be as good in two years as they are now, but it certainly doesn't look like they will be the easy win people thought they were when they were scheduled. Really, I think if you believe that Mike Riley is the right coach for us now(I do), then I don't see why somebody who believes that thinks that we will or should take a step back next year in terms of wins.

It would help if you define your version of "good". Maybe 4 or so years ago on this very board there was an involved discussion on blowouts. It was after Kevin Steele was fired following Clemson's blowout loss in the bowl game. I was in a very, very small minority that see blowouts as part of modern CFB and was likely called an idiot and other assorted names. BUT NOW, because it involves Mike Riley would all those same people call me a genius? OR, would all those same people call this a bad season because we got blown out by OhSU 62 - 3? Pelini put together 8, 9, and 10 win seasons, was that "good"?

At the end of this season, we will lose a number of players that have a lot of experience and are considered by some to be talented. The youth behind these experienced players is either 1) untested, 2) untested and said to be not good enough to play, or 3) played and didn't show anything to make someone say "wow". I look at you in much the same way as I look at Redrover. It's fine with me if you want to project the best possible outcome, but until I see it, we'll have to disagree.

 

[Pennsyhusker]

And you are overreacting to what I am saying. I didn't make my post as a way of responding directly to your post. If I was doing that, I would have quoted your post. I was reacting to comments from more than one person, including, but not limited to you and I was not "accusing" you of anything.

Ok. My apologies.
Peace

 

[GBRhuskers]

Pelini put together 8, 9, and 10 win seasons, was that "good"?

Bo Pelini is a prick, asshole, piece of crap, and many more things, all wrapped in to one. His results weren't "good" because he didn't give a darn about NEBRASKA; the state, University, their fans, etc, etc, etc. He was a disgrace to this great state, University and everything associated with Nebraska.

I'll take the exact same results under Riley that we had in Pelini and know, at least Riley is doing everything in his power to better everything that's involved in Nebraska football. On the other hand, Pelini didn't give a damn about anything Nebraska related. Except his paycheck.

People are accepting today's results because of the respect coach Riley has for Nebraska. That same respect was NEVER shown by Pelini.

How you can't see the difference is a you problem, not an us problem.

 

[nebcountry]

Bo Pelini is a prick, asshole, piece of crap, and many more things, all wrapped in to one. His results weren't "good" because he didn't give a darn about NEBRASKA; the state, University, their fans, etc, etc, etc. He was a disgrace to this great state, University and everything associated with Nebraska.

I'll take the exact same results under Riley that we had in Pelini and know, at least Riley is doing everything in his power to better everything that's involved in Nebraska football. On the other hand, Pelini didn't give a damn about anything Nebraska related. Except his paycheck.

People are accepting today's results because of the respect coach Riley has for Nebraska. That same respect was NEVER shown by Pelini.

How you can't see the difference is a you problem, not an us problem.

Actually, you're inferring too much concerning me. But, you did answer part of a question. For some people 8, 9, 10 wins weren't good enough. Blowouts were unacceptable. Horrible behavior was unacceptable. Any of these 3 could be reason to get rid of a coach for some people. So, based on your response, 8,9,10 wins with blowouts is good enough to retain a coaching staff. There have been lengthy and numerous discussions concerning what is acceptable, maybe the bar has been lowered or those people only need a chance to respond.

 

[GBRhuskers]

Actually, you're inferring too much concerning me. But, you did answer part of a question. For some people 8, 9, 10 wins weren't good enough. Blowouts were unacceptable. Horrible behavior was unacceptable. Any of these 3 could be reason to get rid of a coach for some people. So, based on your response, 8,9,10 wins with blowouts is good enough to retain a coaching staff. There have been lengthy and numerous discussions concerning what is acceptable, maybe the bar has been lowered or those people only need a chance to respond.

I inferred as much about you as it seems you have with others. I wasn't around here during the Pelini era but I was on Scout, and there were plenty of discussions about blowouts. I'm not a fan of them, but have accepted [come to understand], them as part of the game. As much as it pains me, they happen.

Under Bo, they happened too often. 2 in 2008, to 1 in 2009 to none in 2010 then 7 times over the next 3 or 4 seasons. Too many, at a place like Nebraska.

As I said, there is a difference.

 

[cubsker]

I agree with your breakdown of games. What are your doubts about Lee? And if he falters, what about POB? Still too young???

no clue on POB. i have no insight into how guys look at practice. i go purely by what i see on saturdays and lee was just brutal for tulane. pick 6 city.

 

[nebcountry]

I inferred as much about you as it seems you have with others. I wasn't around here during the Pelini era but I was on Scout, and there were plenty of discussions about blowouts. I'm not a fan of them, but have accepted [come to understand], them as part of the game. As much as it pains me, they happen.

Under Bo, they happened too often. 2 in 2008, to 1 in 2009 to none in 2010 then 7 times over the next 3 or 4 seasons. Too many, at a place like Nebraska.

As I said, there is a difference.

All types of discussions happened here concerning "good" seasons or expectations for the program, so I don't have to infer anything. Truehuskerfan doesn't see doubt in us being "good" next year. Maybe people think the same, maybe some have changed their opinions. Is it no blowouts, conference champs or bust, division champs or bust, 9 wins, respectable coaching staff, etc, or some combination of the above. Maybe for some a 59 point blowout is most certainly still "good", where as a 60 point blowout is unforgivable.

I did infer that the OP is pointing to the possibility of a losing season next year. Previously, I have said 2 losing seasons would result in the staff being fired, using Callahan as precedence. Now, barring a 3 or possibly 4 win season, I think the staff would be retained.

Maybe at some point we board members will have another lengthy discussion on what is "good" for NU.

 

[GBRhuskers]

All types of discussions happened here concerning "good" seasons or expectations for the program, so I don't have to infer anything. Truehuskerfan doesn't see doubt in us being "good" next year. Maybe people think the same, maybe some have changed their opinions. Is it no blowouts, conference champs or bust, division champs or bust, 9 wins, respectable coaching staff, etc, or some combination of the above. Maybe for some a 59 point blowout is most certainly still "good", where as a 60 point blowout is unforgivable.

I did infer that the OP is pointing to the possibility of a losing season next year. Previously, I have said 2 losing seasons would result in the staff being fired, using Callahan as precedence. Now, barring a 3 or possibly 4 win season, I think the staff would be retained.

Maybe at some point we board members will have another lengthy discussion on what is "good" for NU.

No ass whooping is good, regardless if it's 59 or 62, but your mockery of the fan base on here is duly noted. You'd have a better stance if you're asking where's the cut off; 20, 31, etc.

You don't have to infer it, he flat out believes it so that's what he expects to happen. Instead of worrying about that, which I believe is absolutely nuts for anyone to say, enjoy the moment and see how things go. I've always believed it's good to discuss possibilities, we're also 10 months away from the 2017 season. Enjoy this season; see how winter conditioning in the spring and summer go, right in to fall camp. Worrying about a "losing season in 2017" should be the last thing on anyone's mind. Unless there's motive for that type of discussion.

The off-season would be a good start. If I'm still around, I look forward to you starting a thread. And I look forward to read what you think is "good" for Nebraska. Because right now, Mike Riley is "good" for Nebraska.

 

[Truehuskerfan]

no clue on POB. i have no insight into how guys look at practice. i go purely by what i see on saturdays and lee was just brutal for tulane. pick 6 city.

You don't think there might be a little bit of difference between the talent at Tulane and here, and the fact Tulane had one of the worst defenses in the country and they were playing catchup all the time? Do you think our coaches saw him and thought-"hey here's a guy who throws interceptions. Sounds like he'd be great here". Do you think they're bad talent evaluators? Don't you think they saw something good in him that made them want to bring him here?

 

[cubsker]

can you name for me one player who sucked at a lower level fbs team, transferred to a power 5 conf, and became good?

 

[Truehuskerfan]

can you name for me one player who sucked at a lower level fbs team, transferred to a power 5 conf, and became good?

Why do you think he was brought here? To fail? Are you saying our coaches are idiots and don't know what they're doing? Let's not beat around the bush here, if that's what you think, then don't be a coward-come out and say it. I'm so sorry they didn't check with you and your vast knowledge of QBs. You clearly know more than they do, I'm sure. I'm sure the coaches are really trying to sabotage the team, because it's so obvious that he'll be a failure, that must be the only reason, right?

 

[timnsun]

@nebcountry, I don't think it's as simple as wins and losses, blowouts included, although they do come into play. Culture is a big deal as well. Pelini, like it or not, became a problem, and the team was not headed in a good direction. I am so glad the seniors this year were able to attend their last home game and feel the love that the fans have for them. If Pelini were still here, it would have been a love / hate kind of feeling, I think...

It would be interesting to know if Riley would have been canned under the same circumstances that Bo was canned, or if his personality would have bought him more time... I think he would have been given more time, personally... That, to me, suggests it's not as simple as wins and losses.

 

[nebcountry]

@nebcountry, I don't think it's as simple as wins and losses, blowouts included, although they do come into play. Culture is a big deal as well. Pelini, like it or not, became a problem, and the team was not headed in a good direction. I am so glad the seniors this year were able to attend their last home game and feel the love that the fans have for them. If Pelini were still here, it would have been a love / hate kind of feeling, I think...

It would be interesting to know if Riley would have been canned under the same circumstances that Bo was canned, or if his personality would have bought him more time... I think he would have been given more time, personally... That, to me, suggests it's not as simple as wins and losses.

I agree with you completely. Huskernation consists of you, and me, and a bunch of other people. Each one of us will define "good" in our own way. There might even be some that would consider a losing season as "good", all things considered. A hypothetical losing season next year appears to be the discussion point of this thread. At this point in time, I do not see us as being as successful next year as we are this year. And that brought us (or at least me) down the path to ... being good next year.

 

[cubsker]

Why do you think he was brought here? To fail? Are you saying our coaches are idiots and don't know what they're doing? Let's not beat around the bush here, if that's what you think, then don't be a coward-come out and say it. I'm so sorry they didn't check with you and your vast knowledge of QBs. You clearly know more than they do, I'm sure. I'm sure the coaches are really trying to sabotage the team, because it's so obvious that he'll be a failure, that must be the only reason, right?

man, you're really upset. I've stated my opinion on Lee. I've stated why I think that. I've stated what my limitations are in coming to my conclusion. And then somehow out of that you decided to read a bunch more into it and found room to call me a coward. Your post is hilariously illogical and you should feel bad about it.

 

[jeans15]

looks like 6 absolute gimmes next year

Arky St
N Illy
Rutgers
Illy
NW at home (i know, but still, cmon)
Purdont

at Oregon, PSU, and Minny
home vs Ohio st, wisky, iowa

9-3 seems like a reasonable goal but I haven't really reviewed our roster for what we'll have and I have a lot of doubts about Tanner Lee.

Both offensive and defensive lines will be more experienced next year.

Anything less than 10-2 would be a disappointment.

 

[TheLiberalHunter]

Just looking at ND, UCLA , TCU ,TEXAS, MICHIGAN STATE, OREGON, MISS STATE, OLE MISS

These are all teams(exempt Texas) that were in the top 10 within the last year or two. They are all teams that have coaches we likely would have preferred over Mike Riley or Bo Pelini. They are all teams that may or will finish with losing records and with 6 losses or more this year. Is it fair to treat a losing season as a firing offense? If TO would have had a losing season in 1990 he would have been canned for sure but to me the times have changed. Scholarship, academic limits combined with mass transfers, more injuries, and more early outs to the NFL creates a huge talent disparity from one year to the year for some teams. I think we will taste it next year. Thoughts?

depends...as I get older, it seems to matter less. Must come with age and priorities and acceptance that things won't always be perfect.

 

[cubsker]

Both offensive and defensive lines will be more experienced next year.

Anything less than 10-2 would be a disappointment.

have to figure out what we have at QB before I would go that far. And losing #1 is going to be big, I don't care how good our other WR are. I can't imagine the betting season win total could be anything above 9.

 

[Rocky Mtn Husker]

have to figure out what we have at QB before I would go that far. And losing #1 is going to be big, I don't care how good our other WR are. I can't imagine the betting season win total could be anything above 9.

Tommy will be missed more than some realize. If we can get 9 wins, that would be huge. 8 is probably more realistic and don't be surprised if we struggle some. This isn't the Osborne era where we just reloaded. Our record will be more of a direct reflection of our level of talent but I think we can still be a very respectable team next year.