Active knifer on Ohio State campus

[Tuco Salamanca]

How about this, there are approx 2.5 million migrant farm workers in the United States, of which about 53% are undocumented and 75% were born in Mexico. The average migrant farm worker on a rice farm in Southeast Texas makes about $15/hr These are unskilled jobs, basically anyone that can walk and be taught to drive a tractor.

Why are these jobs not taken by able-bodied Americans? Especially those currently on government assistance?

 

[jeans15]

How about this, there are approx 2.5 million migrant farm workers in the United States, of which about 53% are undocumented and 75% were born in Mexico. The average migrant farm worker on a rice farm in Southeast Texas makes about $15/hr These are unskilled jobs, basically anyone that can walk and be taught to drive a tractor.

Why are these jobs not taken by able-bodied Americans? Especially those currently on government assistance?

They are not year round and don't provide benefits consistently enough.

I just want people to be legal......They will then have access to all the country has to offer...Leave the country and come back legally.

 

[dinglefritz]

Here's what you need to understand about what people like me ACTUALLY want:

We want the government to pay its effing bills.
We want the government to stop funneling more and more money to the richest rich guys while screwing all the rest of us..

Then you should have voted for "anybody but Hillary". The democratic party has talked a good game but the disparity between the classes grew dramatically under the Clintons and Obama.

 

[TheLiberalHunter]

Then you should have voted for "anybody but Hillary". The democratic party has talked a good game but the disparity between the classes grew dramatically under the Clintons and Obama.

Libs will never understand that....they think taxing some cat like me to death will enrich someone else when it all just goes to frivolous Programs. They can't accept that lowering the taxes Corporation spurs hiring and entices companies to locate here, bringing jobs.

There is absolutely nothing my neighbor or some dude on the other side of town can do that will influence what I make yet the Left is obsessed with it instead of improving their own lot in life.

From a tax view, I'd rather have 15% of a lot than 39% of zero.

 

[Lincoln100]

I struggle with the popular idea that our government is choking businesses and how it lives alongside what we know very well, which is that our politicians get lobbying money like CRAZY to vote for a certain team. I understand where it's a very useful narrative to tell people that our tax code kills business, but I don't see the actual evidence of it. If we're being honest with ourselves, big business in this country wrote the tax code. The Carrier thing is a great example. They'll TELL you they gotta go to Mexico because a business just can't possibly survive in America, something something unions and taxes. They made BILLIONS in profit. You know why they'll move to Mexico? Because the guys in the c-suites can make a few million more by paying Mexicans $3 an hour instead of Americans $15. They don't care about who they employ, they care about profits. And we here in a developed nation can never win a race to the bottom on wages with people in 'third world' countries.

And will we as a nation say, "Eff you guys, I'm never buying Carrier HVAC equipment again"? No. Because they paid a guy to hold a presser in DC and say, "See how they left? It's those damned democrats and their taxes that chased them away!"

Politics is the divide, and we are the conquered. But I digress...

I also have serious doubts about Trump letting his advisers advise. He's said himself they keep telling him to stay off Twitter and yet there he is with the head-scratcher that the election he won was loaded with fraudulent voting. Which every credible outlet and people on both sides of the aisle have said is so false it's just baffling. It's also been reported that he's turning away intelligence briefings. The track record on the guy tells us he does and says what he wants, when he wants. I'm hopeful, but not expectant that he'll change that. His own lawyers meet with him in twos so at least THEY know what the real story is.

I agree that we're about due for another recession. I'm big believer that we'll keep stalling out the economy until we get real wage reform on the low end. You don't try to keep people from being poor because it's the *nice* thing to do or you're all touchy-feely, you can't eradicate all poverty. You do it because those huddled masses are the ones you need to buy shit and make shit so that the money keeps flowing.

It is indisputable that different policies will have an affect on the economy and business, so I'm not sure what you are talking about. You don't see the "actual evidence" that tax code kills business? So a corporate tax of 40% vs. 10% would have no affect on where a business sets up shop? You need evidence to prove that? C'mon man. And how do the corporate tax rates in the U.S. compare to the rest of the civilized world?

It's not about a business "surviving in America," it is largely about profits; it's called "business." Yes, there are ways to increase business in America, and one of them is through the tax code. And I don't hold a grudge against those who make a lot of money, and who want to make more. I wouldn't mind being one of them, and instead of bitching about it and judging them for being rich, and maximizing profits, I'm going to work harder to get mine. That used to be the way the U.S. operated, now it is whining about what they didn't get, without even working for it.

Your proof is that he continues to tweet even though his advisors tell him not to? You're really reaching.

No, wage reform is not the answer. Minimum wage jobs are not intended to be jobs that support a family or to give someone a lot of purchasing power. The idea is not that we should jack it all up so that uneducated and / or unskilled people can buy lots of stuff (doing so would have a negative affect on business, and society as a whole). The idea is, or once was, if you don't like your place in life, you do something about it. You work to obtain an education, you work to obtain skill. Now, the message isn't that, it is "we don't get paid enough to flip burgers or deliver pizza."

The middle class is what is most important to the economy, and it is shrinking. Not because the government won't mandate businesses to pay anyone off the street $15.00/hr., but because jobs are going elsewhere, because of government policy.

Do everything you possibly can to stimulate business, businesses open up and grow, and hire more and more people, and low and behold, shit gets made and people buy shit and money keeps flowing. I'm not sure how this doesn't make sense to every single person.

 

[TheBeav815]

Then you should have voted for "anybody but Hillary". The democratic party has talked a good game but the disparity between the classes grew dramatically under the Clintons and Obama.

I did in the primaries. Then in the general my options were her or trickle-down theory. I'm under no illusions that she was going to be a champion of wage reform on a grand scale, but she did profess to intend on pushing equal pay for women and paid family & sick leave. Lots of countries have those things and they still are managing to exist today without everyone being dead of the scourge of communism or whatever.

You all seem to be conveniently ignoring 1) Minimum wage is a state issue and 2) Under the Obama admin govt. contractor min. wage WAS increased and they also tried to expand OT eligibility, but we'll see whether that makes it through or not. So how exactly did they not do anything to help?

I'm not making this shit up, boys. Look up how people got paid in the 50s and 60s when America was booming. Productivity has gone up and up and up, but take a look at the data and tell me who got all the rewards for the hard work.

 

[dinglefritz]

It is indisputable that different policies will have an affect on the economy and business, so I'm not sure what you are talking about. You don't see the "actual evidence" that tax code kills business? So a corporate tax of 40% vs. 10% would have no affect on where a business sets up shop? You need evidence to prove that? C'mon man. And how do the corporate tax rates in the U.S. compare to the rest of the civilized world?

It's not about a business "surviving in America," it is largely about profits; it's called "business." Yes, there are ways to increase business in America, and one of them is through the tax code. And I don't hold a grudge against those who make a lot of money, and who want to make more. I wouldn't mind being one of them, and instead of bitching about it and judging them for being rich, and maximizing profits, I'm going to work harder to get mine. That used to be the way the U.S. operated, now it is whining about what they didn't get, without even working for it.

Your proof is that he continues to tweet even though his advisors tell him not to? You're really reaching.

No, wage reform is not the answer. Minimum wage jobs are not intended to be jobs that support a family or to give someone a lot of purchasing power. The idea is not that we should jack it all up so that uneducated and / or unskilled people can buy lots of stuff (doing so would have a negative affect on business, and society as a whole). The idea is, or once was, if you don't like your place in life, you do something about it. You work to obtain an education, you work to obtain skill. Now, the message isn't that, it is "we don't get paid enough to flip burgers or deliver pizza."

The middle class is what is most important to the economy, and it is shrinking. Not because the government won't mandate businesses to pay anyone off the street $15.00/hr., but because jobs are going elsewhere, because of government policy.

Do everything you possibly can to stimulate business, businesses open up and grow, and hire more and more people, and low and behold, shit gets made and people buy shit and money keeps flowing. I'm not sure how this doesn't make sense to every single person.

IF anybody struggles with the idea that our government is
"choking business" they have never owned or run a business. The amount of paper and time wasted to fulfill government regulations is amazing.

 

[Lincoln100]

Libs will never understand that....they think taxing some cat like me to death will enrich someone else when it all just goes to frivolous Programs. They can't accept that lowering the taxes Corporation spurs hiring and entices companies to locate here, bringing jobs.

There is absolutely nothing my neighbor or some dude on the other side of town can do that will influence what I make yet the Left is obsessed with it instead of improving their own lot in life.

From a tax view, I'd rather have 15% of a lot than 39% of zero.

Yup, the federal government is the most inefficient, corrupt business in the U.S.

But what you don't seem to understand is that for all of those who walk around being miserable all day, its not their fault, its someone else's fault.

 

[TheBeav815]

Libs will never understand that....they think taxing some cat like me to death will enrich someone else when it all just goes to frivolous Programs. They can't accept that lowering the taxes Corporation spurs hiring and entices companies to locate here, bringing jobs.

There is absolutely nothing my neighbor or some dude on the other side of town can do that will influence what I make yet the Left is obsessed with it instead of improving their own lot in life.

From a tax view, I'd rather have 15% of a lot than 39% of zero.

The truth is somewhere in the middle of all that. The kinds of companies who can up and decide to headquarter in a more convenient nation are absolutely not paying 39%. If they were, yes, they'd be gone. The reason that tax rate of 15% gets talked about but never done is that 15% would be an increase for the kinds of companies you're talking about.

You must have skipped my previous post about how those companies have special carve-outs and breaks. In a lot of instances they're being paid by us instead.

 

[TheBeav815]

IF anybody struggles with the idea that our government is
"choking business" they have never owned or run a business. The amount of paper and time wasted to fulfill government regulations is amazing.

I'm sure that stuff is annoying to deal with as a smaller business owner. But when you zoom out and look at how U.S. business is doing, this ain't a picture of what choking looks like.

 

[Lincoln100]

They are not year round and don't provide benefits consistently enough.

I just want people to be legal......They will then have access to all the country has to offer...Leave the country and come back legally.

I actually think it is because people don't want to work those jobs because they are too fat and lazy.

 

[TheBeav815]

It is indisputable that different policies will have an affect on the economy and business, so I'm not sure what you are talking about. You don't see the "actual evidence" that tax code kills business? So a corporate tax of 40% vs. 10% would have no affect on where a business sets up shop? You need evidence to prove that? C'mon man. And how do the corporate tax rates in the U.S. compare to the rest of the civilized world?

It's not about a business "surviving in America," it is largely about profits; it's called "business." Yes, there are ways to increase business in America, and one of them is through the tax code. And I don't hold a grudge against those who make a lot of money, and who want to make more. I wouldn't mind being one of them, and instead of bitching about it and judging them for being rich, and maximizing profits, I'm going to work harder to get mine. That used to be the way the U.S. operated, now it is whining about what they didn't get, without even working for it.

Your proof is that he continues to tweet even though his advisors tell him not to? You're really reaching.

No, wage reform is not the answer. Minimum wage jobs are not intended to be jobs that support a family or to give someone a lot of purchasing power. The idea is not that we should jack it all up so that uneducated and / or unskilled people can buy lots of stuff (doing so would have a negative affect on business, and society as a whole). The idea is, or once was, if you don't like your place in life, you do something about it. You work to obtain an education, you work to obtain skill. Now, the message isn't that, it is "we don't get paid enough to flip burgers or deliver pizza."

The middle class is what is most important to the economy, and it is shrinking. Not because the government won't mandate businesses to pay anyone off the street $15.00/hr., but because jobs are going elsewhere, because of government policy.

Do everything you possibly can to stimulate business, businesses open up and grow, and hire more and more people, and low and behold, shit gets made and people buy shit and money keeps flowing. I'm not sure how this doesn't make sense to every single person.

Where you need to take a very long look at your assumptions is here: "I'm going to work harder to get mine. That used to be the way the U.S. operated, now it is whining about what they didn't get, without even working for it."

The data shows that as a nation, we're more productive than ever. And the way it USED TO BE is that when you worked hard, you got paid in accordance with that productivity. Take a look at where the disconnect happened.

Stop oversimplifying everything. It's not about ending rich people or ending poor people or punishing hard work and rewarding laziness. It's about understanding that we have a consumer economy. The consumers are all those people in the middle and lower classes.

 

[TheBeav815]

I actually think it is because people don't want to work those jobs because they are too fat and lazy.

I bet that's what it is. I bet it's that they're fat.

 

[TheBeav815]

Yup, the federal government is the most inefficient, corrupt business in the U.S.

But what you don't seem to understand is that for all of those who walk around being miserable all day, its not their fault, its someone else's fault.

You just agreed with a post blaming everything on the government and then in the very next sentence mocked other people who blame things on somebody else.

 

[TheBeav815]

Do everything you possibly can to stimulate business, businesses open up and grow, and hire more and more people, and low and behold, shit gets made and people buy shit and money keeps flowing. I'm not sure how this doesn't make sense to every single person.

You know what stimulates business every single time? CUSTOMERS.

What do customers need in order to use your business? MONEY.

We have any business owners in this thread? You ever hire a bunch of people just because you felt like you had some extra money sitting around and you wanted to pay some people to stare at the wall all day?

Or did you hire people when you had enough demand that you needed more employees to keep up?

 

[Lincoln100]

You just agreed with a post blaming everything on the government and then in the very next sentence mocked other people who blame things on somebody else.

Your brain processes things differently. I made a statement about the government being inefficient and corrupt, and you turn that into "blaming everything on the government?" How is that even possible.

 

[Lincoln100]

You know what stimulates business every single time? CUSTOMERS.

What do customers need in order to use your business? MONEY.

We have any business owners in this thread? You ever hire a bunch of people just because you felt like you had some extra money sitting around and you wanted to pay some people to stare at the wall all day?

Or did you hire people when you had enough demand that you needed more employees to keep up?

Good Lord dude. I don't have the time, and I'm not 100% what you are arguing for, except for high taxes and forcing business to pay a lot more for uneducated and unskilled workers so that they will go flood the market with all that money? Enjoy your evening.

 

[TheBeav815]

Good Lord dude. I don't have the time, and I'm not 100% what you are arguing for, except for high taxes and forcing business to pay a lot more for uneducated and unskilled workers so that they will go flood the market with all that money? Enjoy your evening.

"Let me ignore all the facts you presented, stuff a bunch of words in your mouth and then leave."

Nighty night.

 

[anon_umk0ifu6vj6zi]

Your brain processes things differently. I made a statement about the government being inefficient and corrupt, and you turn that into "blaming everything on the government?" How is that even possible.

The same way that everyone that didn't vote for Hillary is uneducated, white, racist, hates gays, wants to kill poor people, and sleeps with their guns.
Sorry Beav, but this has pretty much jumped the shark. I still get pissed being labeled because I chose what I viewed as the lesser of 2 evils when voting for the commander of our military.
Hell I would have voted for her Royal Highness if not for her pretty much proving she is incapable of being responsible with sensitive information. I hope to God the Orange guy can be.

 

[HuskerO]

Where you need to take a very long look at your assumptions is here: "I'm going to work harder to get mine. That used to be the way the U.S. operated, now it is whining about what they didn't get, without even working for it."

The data shows that as a nation, we're more productive than ever. And the way it USED TO BE is that when you worked hard, you got paid in accordance with that productivity. Take a look at where the disconnect happened.

Stop oversimplifying everything. It's not about ending rich people or ending poor people or punishing hard work and rewarding laziness. It's about understanding that we have a consumer economy. The consumers are all those people in the middle and lower classes.

Where is that productivity coming from? From actual people or from automative systems?

Factories are obviously much more productive today than they ever were in the past and it's not because workers are more efficient or productive (workers aren't making it less productive either), it's because we now have the technology and machinery to help productivity.

To me what you're trying to state with your chart is that human beings are more productive therefore wages should be matching their productivity output when in reality technology, machines, etc are the cause for increased productivity therefore your chart isn't telling the entire story or at least doesn't justify your reasons for higher wages just because productivity is higher.

 

[TheBeav815]

Where is that productivity coming from? From actual people or from automative systems?

Factories are obviously much more productive today than they ever were in the past and it's not because workers are more efficient or productive (workers aren't making it less productive either), it's because we now have the technology and machinery to help productivity.

To me what you're trying to state with your chart is that human beings are more productive therefore wages should be matching their productivity output when in reality technology, machines, etc are the cause for increased productivity therefore your chart isn't telling the entire story or at least doesn't justify your reasons for higher wages just because productivity is higher.

The problem with that argument is that we've always found ways to do the job more efficiently by harnessing whatever the new technology was, whether it was a metal plow blade or an automated assembly line. And the wage always matched the productivity until the 80s. My history is a little rusty, but I don't think the industrial revolution was in the 1980s, and I know for a fact we didn't reach a point of full or even majority automation then either. Processes have been increasingly mechanized for all of history.

If increased productivity doesn't justify paying people accordingly, then nothing does. If you're not paying them more for record output then basically it reveals what I've been saying: The boss pays you what he feels like paying you until he finds the wage floor where he can't get anyone to work for that little, and the idea that you get paid exactly what you deserve isn't so true as we like to believe. Sometimes it is, but sometimes it's not. The more people who are struggling to make ends meet, the easier it is to find somebody who will undercut your price.

Where taxes fly right out the window is that we're so globalized now that there will always be a poorer schmuck in a poorer country who will do the job for less than you can if the company decides to offshore.

 

[HuskerO]

We have any business owners in this thread? You ever hire a bunch of people just because you felt like you had some extra money sitting around and you wanted to pay some people to stare at the wall all day?

Or did you hire people when you had enough demand that you needed more employees to keep up?

I'm a business owner and I'll just say that if I was forced to pay my current employee $15 per hour I would have to fire her or drop her down to part-time.

Only the big guys in my industry can afford to pay a secretary that much per hour while us medium size operations (or smaller) will have to close shop or not even be able to start a business that I'm in in the first place. Guess what, the big guys will continue to get bigger because they will be the only ones who can afford to stay in business (in my industry at least).

Now someday in the future (2-5 years down the road) my secretary will be making $15+ per hour with hopefully benefits, but she and myself will have to work out tails off to help her get there.

 

[HuskerO]

My history is a little rusty, but I don't think the industrial revolution was in the 1980s, and I know for a fact we didn't reach a point of full or even majority automation then either. Processes have been increasingly mechanized for all of history.

Right but those processes and technological advancements have increased at a much faster rate than they ever have before. You may have needed 100 people on an assembly line, but now you may need only 20 and you get twice the production. Those 20 aren't going to be paid at the same rate because it's the machines that have increased productivity more than the people on that assembly line.

Technology advancements were slower in the past (depending on the industry), but now those advancements are much faster and only getting faster as time goes on.

While I know in most cases technology advancement is great, but personally I wish it would just slow down.

 

[GammaxuvirHusker]

I'm sure that stuff is annoying to deal with as a smaller business owner. But when you zoom out and look at how U.S. business is doing, this ain't a picture of what choking looks like.

So, this graph shows the country's GDP having an upward trajectory over the course of the last century... while the population has exploded and the purchasing power of the dollar decreases by half every 8 years.

Interesting.

 

[jeans15]

Soon....soon....followed by BLM activists.

Lmao...turns out you were right about BLM.

One of their activist couldn't help himself....his tweet paraphrased:

"So a white officer shoots a black Somalian and is held as a hero. That's interesting."

 

[Lincoln100]

"Let me ignore all the facts you presented, stuff a bunch of words in your mouth and then leave."

Nighty night.

Says that guy who doesn't think the tax code has an affect on business. I'd post a chart on it, except nobody has actually prepared a chart showing that tax rates affect business decisions because it is as easy to understand as 1+1. You want hire taxes, and you want low educated and low skilled people to be paid a lot more, assuming they will use all of that extra money to buy a bunch of consumer products, thereby causing new businesses to open up and existing businesses to grow. Where did I put words in your mouth?