A large dose of reality, regarding our 2-deep compared to the nation

[HuskerTimOmaha]

Found this on FB, walk-on players on 2-deep, across the nation....

• If a player is listed at two positions, he's counted once (subtracted from the total #)
• Some schools don't have 2-deep at certain positions
• Some schools list more than 2 guys at 2-deep position(s)

This is all I was given so if there's any questions, hopefully others can answer them.

 

[headcard]

We're #1! We're #1, We're #1!!!

 

[jrhuskerdad]

I think it's worth noting that we play(ed) four of the teams in the top 7. I agree that it's the reality for us, but it's also the reality for several of our opponents.

 

[GretnaShawn]

I posted something similar to this awhile ago. It was comparing the walkons in Nebraskas 3 deep to Penn States 3 deep. The numbers speak for themselves.

Bo put Nebraska on self imposed sanctions with his lack of recruiting and poor roster management. Now that Nebraska has caught the injury bug it looks even worse. MR is trying to make wine without the grapes. Especially on defense.

 

[GretnaShawn]

I think it's worth noting that we play(ed) four of the teams in the top 7. I agree that it's the reality for us, but it's also the reality for several of our opponents.

It may be a reality for some of our opponents, but it isn't like many are close to Nebraska %. Wisconsin has 2/3 the walkons that Nebraska does. It may look close in rankings, but it is far away in %.

 

[jrhuskerdad]

It may be a reality for some of our opponents, but it isn't like many are close to Nebraska %. Wisconsin has 2/3 the walkons that Nebraska does. It may look close in rankings, but it is far away in %.

That's fair, but it's also fair to point out that 17th-ranked Iowa has eight walk-ons in their two-deep to our ten. That's 19% versus 21.7%, respectively.

 

[jflores]

That's fair, but it's also fair to point out that 17th-ranked Iowa has eight walk-ons in their two-deep to our ten. That's 19% versus 21.7%, respectively.

Its also fair to point out that Iowa is in what, year 27 of Kirk Ferentz's rein? If Iowa were on the other side of that thin line, nobody would be cheering how many hometown boys were playing (and why are we playing 8 walkons after all these years of Ferentz in office?).

NU is building an airplane in flight right now, something that can't be said about Iowa, even excepting Ferentz recruiting

 

[SDhusker12]

I posted something similar to this awhile ago. It was comparing the walkons in Nebraskas 3 deep to Penn States 3 deep. The numbers speak for themselves.

Bo put Nebraska on self imposed sanctions with his lack of recruiting and poor roster management. Now that Nebraska has caught the injury bug it looks even worse. MR is trying to make wine without the grapes. Especially on defense.

Okay so it is a reality for us and it shouldnt be, but not for lack of recruiting. The guy averaged a top 25 class over the last 5 years. The reasons we have depth issues is largely due to players transferring, grades, or getting booted for whatever reason. A ton of our defense transferred or got booted this last year.

 

[HuskerTimOmaha]

but it's also fair to point out that 17th-ranked Iowa has eight walk-ons in their two-deep to our ten

17th-ranked Io_a doesn't have the resources, facilities and/or tradition of Nebraska. Plus....

Team rankings, 2011-2015
Nebraska 15, 25, 17, 32, 31
Io_a 30, 43, 53, 59, 58

They should have more, not less, than Nebraska. The last data I could find (quick search) for both schools, 2012-2013, Nebraska spent $818,509 in football recruiting compared to Io_a spending $477,455. But for some reason, we have more walk-ons in our 2-deep compared to them. Let those numbers sink in, really, let them sink in...

 

[huskerhomie]

That's fair, but it's also fair to point out that 17th-ranked Iowa has eight walk-ons in their two-deep to our ten. That's 19% versus 21.7%, respectively.

Actually Iowa has just had some injuries lately to where they may be using more Walk ons now in the two deep, but I bet they didnt start out the season with 8 ( in fact when I get a chance I will double check their number anyway). Other teams I bet are in the same boat...

If we are being fair, we have pretty much been at 11 walk ons since the start of the season in our 2 deep to go along with all the frosh we are playing. Iowa on the other hand is going to start for the 1st time a Frosh at SE position who has not played up until this season, that would be the only Frosh they would be starting for them while we have had a few guys already. I would bet some of those teams with some higher numbers didnt start out the season with that many walk ons as well, but through injuries they may be there now, while we have been there from day 1.

 

[MOhusker12]

Its also fair to point out that Iowa is in what, year 27 of Kirk Ferentz's rein? If Iowa were on the other side of that thin line, nobody would be cheering how many hometown boys were playing (and why are we playing 8 walkons after all these years of Ferentz in office?).

NU is building an airplane in flight right now, something that can't be said about Iowa, even excepting Ferentz recruiting

Another point you can make is that schools who recruit less 3-5 star talent and recruit more 2-3 star talent will probably have more walk-ons on the two deep because the disparity in talent is not as wide. Where as blue blood programs like Nebraska should be able to field a two deep with mainly scholarship players with an occasional walkon sprinkled in.

 

[jrhuskerdad]

Its also fair to point out that Iowa is in what, year 27 of Kirk Ferentz's rein? If Iowa were on the other side of that thin line, nobody would be cheering how many hometown boys were playing (and why are we playing 8 walkons after all these years of Ferentz in office?).

NU is building an airplane in flight right now, something that can't be said about Iowa, even excepting Ferentz recruiting

That's exactly the point. Nebraska's woes cannot be explained by # of walk-ons as implied with the "large dose of reality" title to this thread. There are other teams, like Iowa, that are excelling with a comparable number of walk-ons in their two-deep. I agree with you that there are a number of reasons for that, including the longevity of the system in place under Ferencz.

 

[huskersreign]

What's wrong with walk-ons? They have heart and passion that more than makes up for their lack of stars. Its always been the cornerstone from which our program has been built from. Stop trying to act like we are something we aren't. We aren't the other blue bloods, we are Nebraska! Our success is reliant on heart, will and hard work... with a few 5-4 star players sprinkled in there... and being on the cutting edge in training techniques.

Not for sure why anyone would be surprised or ashamed of such a list. I for one am very proud of our walk-ons and their rich history in our program. GBR!

 

[HuskerTimOmaha]

There are other teams, that are the exception, like Iowa

Since the graph didn't help, FIFY.

 

[Husker.Wed.]

Okay so it is a reality for us and it shouldnt be, but not for lack of recruiting. The guy averaged a top 25 class over the last 5 years. The reasons we have depth issues is largely due to players transferring, grades, or getting booted for whatever reason. A ton of our defense transferred or got booted this last year.

Since the previous staff didn't recruit much during the season, they got in crunch mode in the two months before NSD. While they got some good players late, common sense tells me locking up a player the summer before or during the season means that player is likely more "settled", less likely to have issues, and less likely to be a bust. We are at 15 now (maybe 14 depending on Alexander) and are looking at around 24(?). It would be nice to get 5 more this fall and then have only 4-5 to fill the class out with maybe a couple of those being JUCOs.

So while being in the mid 20s wasn't "lack of recruiting", I always felt scrambling at the end increased the busts.

 

[Mr.Scary13]

That's fair, but it's also fair to point out that 17th-ranked Iowa has eight walk-ons in their two-deep to our ten. That's 19% versus 21.7%, respectively.

It's also fair to say that Iowa always sux.....

 

[Harry Caray]

I'm assuming this includes former walk-ons who have since earned scholarships, and not just current walk-ons? Because I don't see any current walk-ons on our 2-deep on offense, let alone six. Janovich, Reilly, Hovey, Utter, Ffye are all on scholarship. Who is the sixth? The backup fullback?

If 2 out of the 6 are fullbacks then that kind of inflates the numbers, because we don't use the fullback that much and nobody ever offer fullbacks scholarships out of high school.

 

[HuskerTimOmaha]

It includes every single walk-on, when they started their college career. Numbers aren't inflated, a 2-deep is a 2-deep. If you prefer only starters, I look forward to your research across the country.

P.S.
3/11 is no different than 6/22. It could be 4/11 since two are listed as 'OR'. More reason to list 2-deep.

 

[jflores]

What's wrong with walk-ons? They have heart and passion that more than makes up for their lack of stars. Its always been the cornerstone from which our program has been built from. Stop trying to act like we are something we aren't. We aren't the other blue bloods, we are Nebraska! Our success is reliant on heart, will and hard work... with a few 5-4 star players sprinkled in there... and being on the cutting edge in training techniques.

Not for sure why anyone would be surprised or ashamed of such a list. I for one am very proud of our walk-ons and their rich history in our program. GBR!

Really? A few work out. Most don't ever see the field. I wouldn't say that heart more than makes up "all the time" for the talent deficit. For the guys that end up seeing the field, that hometown desire often has them play pretty decent, but I'd take Grant Wistrom over Jack Gangwish any day of the week. Or Jay Foreman over Chris Weber.

 

[IowaHawkeyeFBnBB4Life]

17th-ranked Io_a doesn't have the resources, facilities and/or tradition of Nebraska. Plus....

Team rankings, 2011-2015
Nebraska 15, 25, 17, 32, 31
Io_a 30, 43, 53, 59, 58

They should have more, not less, than Nebraska. The last data I could find (quick search) for both schools, 2012-2013, Nebraska spent $818,509 in football recruiting compared to Io_a spending $477,455. But for some reason, we have more walk-ons in our 2-deep compared to them. Let those numbers sink in, really, let them sink in...

Resources? I wouldn't be so sure about that. Our new facilities have been quoted by some on BTN as "the best in the nation"

 

[GretnaShawn]

Resources? I wouldn't be so sure about that. Our new facilities have been quoted by some on BTN as "the best in the nation"

The 'best in the nation' is said about almost every place with nice facilities. I have heard BTN say it about Nebraska, Iowa, Ohio State and Michigan all on separate occasions. I have also heard Texas, Oregon, and many other mentioned as having the 'best facilities in the nation.' There is no official rankings. I know Iowa just improved their facilities and have heard they are nice. But Nebraska, and many other places, can be argued to be as good or better.

 

[SDhusker12]

Since the previous staff didn't recruit much during the season, they got in crunch mode in the two months before NSD. While they got some good players late, common sense tells me locking up a player the summer before or during the season means that player is likely more "settled", less likely to have issues, and less likely to be a bust. We are at 15 now (maybe 14 depending on Alexander) and are looking at around 24(?). It would be nice to get 5 more this fall and then have only 4-5 to fill the class out with maybe a couple of those being JUCOs.

So while being in the mid 20s wasn't "lack of recruiting", I always felt scrambling at the end increased the busts.

I can agree with your analysis there. A lot of times, though people use the recruiting argument thinking we were like 60th in recruiting every year and only pulling 15 a year. Your argument is very valid by your breakdown, though

 

[Duc748]

The 'best in the nation' is said about almost every place with nice facilities. I have heard BTN say it about Nebraska, Iowa, Ohio State and Michigan all on separate occasions. I have also heard Texas, Oregon, and many other mentioned as having the 'best facilities in the nation.' There is no official rankings. I know Iowa just improved their facilities and have heard they are nice. But Nebraska, and many other places, can be argued to be as good or better.

Iowa did have a pretty decent upgrade in facilities. Too bad those millions of dollars spent on upgrades didn't include filling their trophy case. Cy-Hawk trophy is pretty impressive.

 

[SnohomishRed]

It may very well be true - but whoever put this chart together has access to information I have no idea from where

But the premise is that our talent level is low due to walk ons

Lets look at our walk ons :

QB - Fyfe - there are other QBs behind him which are not walk ons - so is it not possible he is on the two deep because NU has a lot walk ons and not because of a lack of talkent - so for example of another school does not have walkons or only very few walk ons, they would have an under classmen in the two deep. In fact some teams are starting Fr Qb's

WR - Reilly and Hovey - or put Morgan who was not a walk on in there. I do not see this as an indication of a talnet issue but as an indication the walk on program works

TE Foster - Has one pass reception and two schollie athletes listed behind him that have played much more

OG Utter - had other offers but not from D1 schools

DE - Dzuris - and Gangwish or is it just Gangwish and Dzuris was listed because Gangwish was hurt - not sure

LB - Weber - listed on two deep because of injuries and defections and player kicked off team

So I count 8 total and the chart says ten - you could look at it and say that becuase we have an active walk on program more of these guys are in the two deep. With other schools without an active walk on program they have younger players in the two deep - maybe I missed a few who knows. So then I go to check MSU as they are showing only a few walk ons - where the chart makers got this information I will never know - There is really no reliable site I can see that tracks this - I did see an article from last year that talks about the importance of walk ons to their team

http://www.freep.com/story/sports/c...onnor-kruse-michigan-state-spartans/70039426/

So I question where these guys got their information from and could they have really taken the time to google each two deep player and decipher if the guy was a walk on or not

 

[HuskerTimOmaha]

Resources? I wouldn't be so sure about that. Our new facilities have been quoted by some on BTN as "the best in the nation"

Yawn, it's said by a lot of people with different schools. Resources are more than just a facility and it's also what's insidr said facility. I've already shared the resources spent on recruiting, and there's plenty more Io_a can't touch that Nebraska currently has, not mentioned yet.

I've been to Io_a's, although impressive, there's nothing I haven't seen elsewhere.

 

[huskerfan1414]

Interesting to see BYU has 9. That is not encouraging and kind of makes the talent argument invalid for that game; but I have to tell myself it was also Riley's first game. Wish we coulda played them at this point in the season, as I think we'd win now with our defense playing better (and have it decided before the last play).

 

[HuskerTimOmaha]

It may very well be true - but whoever put this chart together has access to information I have no idea from where

Google, it's a powerful tool.

WR - Morgan isn't in the 2-deep, he's listed as the third receiver.

TE - Foster shouldn't be the one counted as he's listed as the 3rd TE, just like Morgan (and Turner) at WR.

OG - Utter, doesn't matter, he's a walk-on.

DE - Both should be counted, a total of 2 guys since Dzuris is listed twice, see bullet points in OP. Gangwish was on the 2-deep last week and once again this week.

LB - Everyone is dealing with injuries, defections and player(s) kicked off team, it isn't exclusive to Nebraska no matter how hard you try to make it be.

So I count 8 total and the chart says ten

NU depth chart, click here, 10 walk-ons listed in 2-deep
6 on offense - Utter, Reilly, Hovey, Fyfe, Janovich, Jordan
4 on defense - Gangwish, Dzuris, Weber, Simpson

So I question where these guys got their information from and could they have really taken the time to google each two deep player and decipher if the guy was a walk on or not

Now knowing where this information was accumulated, I guarantee you they took the time to google each two deep roster of every single team listed. It's not very hard to find if someone is a walk-on or not.

So then I go to check MSU as they are showing only a few walk ons

The chart says they have one, if you have it different, let this thread know.

 

[HuskerMike85]

Iowa's facilities are not even in the same stratosphere as Nebraska's.

 

[bigboxes]

17th-ranked Io_a doesn't have the resources, facilities and/or tradition of Nebraska. Plus....

Team rankings, 2011-2015
Nebraska 15, 25, 17, 32, 31
Io_a 30, 43, 53, 59, 58

They should have more, not less, than Nebraska. The last data I could find (quick search) for both schools, 2012-2013, Nebraska spent $818,509 in football recruiting compared to Io_a spending $477,455. But for some reason, we have more walk-ons in our 2-deep compared to them. Let those numbers sink in, really, let them sink in...

It's one of the reasons that Pelini got fired. Those numbers have sunk in long ago. You'd have to be a lunkhead not to get it.

 

[HuskerTimOmaha]

What's wrong with walk-ons? They have heart and passion that more than makes up for their lack of stars. Its always been the cornerstone from which our program has been built from.

Not for sure why anyone would be surprised or ashamed of such a list. I for one am very proud of our walk-ons and their rich history in our program. GBR!

Absolutely nothing is wrong with walk-ons, there's a place for them in our program. It was the cornerstone for a very long time, no doubt about it but it was also a cornerstone when NU was on top of the college football world. That hasn't been the case since 2000-ish, a long 15 seasons ago. You now have other schools hitting Nebraska harder (see Io_a as a prime example, specifically Ott) and it's not limited to P5 schools either...

• Ohio has 5 Nebraskan's on their roster (Vick, Bass, Taylor, Sayles, Arp)
• Wyoming has 4 Nebraskan's on their roster (Geiser, Ghaifan, Johnson, Meader)
• South Dakota has 11 Nebraskan's on their roster
• South Dakota State has 16 Nebraskan's on their roster
• North Dakota State has 5 Nebraskan's on their roster

That's 41 Nebraska kids that have chosen to go elsewhere, amongst 5 schools (plenty more out there). You mean to tell me, of the 41 listed, not one of them were offered a walk-on spot under Peelini? I can name at least 12 without putting much work in it. And I know at least 6 of the 12 are guys NU really, really wanted to walk-on, and Jamrog put serious effort in getting them to.

One can be proud of something, and still present it as an issue.

 

[Charlie Marlow]

We have the best walk-on program in the country, but we already knew that.

 

[regibson1]

We have the best walk-on program in the country, but we already knew that.

In Pelini's 1st year at Nebraska in 2008, he had 8 players that were walkon's that started at sometime during the year in which Nebraska went 9-4. That was the most that I can see that would have been in the 2-deep since this year.

 

[GretnaShawn]

Janovich, Gangwish, Utter and Rielly are the only non-special teams players that should be in the two deep if there was adequate depth on the roster (outside of backup fullback).

The other walk-ons have done well, especially Weber. But there is a noticeable drop off from a starting P5 player, especially on a team in the top half of the P5, and the rest of the walkons. That is not a slight to the walkons. They are clearly more talented than I have or will ever be. And there is a place for them in the Nebraska program. I'm happy they do what they do, but they shouldn't be in the two deep.

 

[Mr.Scary13]

In Pelini's 1st year at Nebraska in 2008, he had 8 players that were walkon's that started at sometime during the year in which Nebraska went 9-4. That was the most that I can see that would have been in the 2-deep since this year.

Now why don't you list how many future pros played alongside those walkons and now look at this year's squad...

 

[MemorialRedWarrior]

Iowa's facilities are not even in the same stratosphere as Nebraska's.

I've been to both, including Michigans and OSU's. I just toured theirs a month ago, or more. Its on par, don't fool yourself. I was shocked to say the least.

 

[MemorialRedWarrior]

Yawn, it's said by a lot of people with different schools. Resources are more than just a facility and it's also what's insidr said facility. I've already shared the resources spent on recruiting, and there's plenty more Io_a can't touch that Nebraska currently has, not mentioned yet.

I've been to Io_a's, although impressive, there's nothing I haven't seen elsewhere.

They can afford $4 million on just their coach, so there is that.

 

[c2o]

I don't need a chart to know that our recruiting sucked while being "coached" by Bo.

 

[c2o]

I can see the results.

 

[regibson1]

Now why don't you list how many future pros played alongside those walkons and now look at this year's squad...

I am not here to argue about what a great recruiter Pelini was. I was just pointing out that we have relied on walkons for a number of years and in 2009 we had 28 former walkons playing in the NFL. I don't know what the number would be now in the NFL but the walk on program has always been a very important part of the success of Nebraska football.

 

[huskersreign]

Absolutely nothing is wrong with walk-ons, there's a place for them in our program. It was the cornerstone for a very long time, no doubt about it but it was also a cornerstone when NU was on top of the college football world. That hasn't been the case since 2000-ish, a long 15 seasons ago. You now have other schools hitting Nebraska harder (see Io_a as a prime example, specifically Ott) and it's not limited to P5 schools either...

• Ohio has 5 Nebraskan's on their roster (Vick, Bass, Taylor, Sayles, Arp)
• Wyoming has 4 Nebraskan's on their roster (Geiser, Ghaifan, Johnson, Meader)
• South Dakota has 11 Nebraskan's on their roster
• South Dakota State has 16 Nebraskan's on their roster
• North Dakota State has 5 Nebraskan's on their roster

That's 41 Nebraska kids that have chosen to go elsewhere, amongst 5 schools (plenty more out there). You mean to tell me, of the 41 listed, not one of them were offered a walk-on spot under Peelini? I can name at least 12 without putting much work in it. And I know at least 6 of the 12 are guys NU really, really wanted to walk-on, and Jamrog put serious effort in getting them to.

One can be proud of something, and still present it as an issue.

Okay, well I was objecting to the notion of having a bunch of walk-ons in the two deep as a reflection of program decline and/or recruiting deficiencies (cupboard left bare). The quality of our walk-ons are fair to scrutinize but denial of their pivotal existence as a cornerstone of our program is not. In fact I agree with you that our program decline has much to do with both a regression of importance placed on walk-ons by past staffs and also FCS schools becoming a more attractive option. Not to mention, today there is a lot less pride in playing for a nebraska program that has lost its identity (most local high schools mirrored Nebraska's option for example, blue collar and thus relatable in a myriad of ways) and dominance (always getting embarrassed on national tv) it once enjoyed. With that being said, I do really like the walk-ons that are playing and/or have earned scholarships in 2015.