70 team super league ...

[V-Doub]

This is not my opinion. It is literal fact.

The B1G sold its broadcast rights to FOX.

The conference is an outsourced manufacturer of college football games which are owned by FOX for them to distribute as they see fit.

If it sounds like bad business, that’s because it is.

Which is why I’ve been shouting this from the rooftops since it took place. It was incomprehensibly incompetent for the B1G to agree to this, and remains so today. Will only get worse in the future.

Ok, but you’ve now ventured into waters that very little to do with my point. We are partners with FOX. We provide the product they deliver it. We gave them 61% of our network rights because we liked the number FOX gave us per school. Whether that deal was a good idea or not is somewhat irrelevant. Maybe it was, maybe it wasn’t. The point is we are partners, and both parties will have a say in the end. You don’t piss of your business partner when things are going well. No partnership is forever if one party isn’t happy.

 

[V-Doub]

Fox also had a huge role in the last Big 10 expansion.

Yes they did, in partnership and consultation with B1G leadership. When you engage in a business partnership, one party doesn’t have all say in how your partnership goes forward. Both parties have a say/leverage. We are the product they deliver it, this is all very basic macroeconomics.

 

[king_kong_]

Ok, but you’ve now ventured into waters that very little to do with my point. We are partners with FOX. We provide the product they deliver it. We gave them 61% of our network rights because we liked the number FOX gave us per school. Whether that deal was a good idea or not is somewhat irrelevant. Maybe it was, maybe it wasn’t. The point is we are partners, and both parties will have a say in the end. You don’t piss of your business partner when things are going well. No partnership is forever if one party isn’t happy.

You are not hearing me.

The B1G sold its football broadcast rights to FOX

AND they own 61% of BTN in perpetuity

Two separate things.

Earliest the B1G will have an opportunity to negotiate on its own behalf again is 2032.

 

[Zeke2005]

Whole thing sounds like some sort of corporate socialism to financially level the playing field for about 30 non-SEC/B1G schools. Plus, the B1G and SEC don’t need that corporate money. Why let someone buy a share of your business if you don’t need their investment money and you already own the product everyone wants?

Seems like a ruse to convince the B1G and SEC to hitch themselves to about 30ish programs they don’t want or need. All while financially weakening the B1G and SEC to the benefit of those same 30ish schools. When you have a massive oil reserve on your property, you don’t sell off your land to your competitors. I’m sure there will be many more landscape altering changes in CFB… but this 70 team welfare project for current Big XII and ACC teams is a ridiculous pipe dream.

The tiered system is so dumb in reality….a few SEC and Big Ten teams will be in tier 3 = less $ than they get now. Who will sign up for a system that takes them backwards? “Super league “ should be up to 40 schools. The other 95 or so can be own their own.

 

[V-Doub]

You are not hearing me.

The B1G sold its football broadcast rights to FOX

AND they own 61% of BTN in perpetuity

Two separate things.

Earliest the B1G will have an opportunity to negotiate on its own behalf again is 2032.

And they will hold out and not renegotiate with FOX if the B1G feels FOX is not honoring their wishes/motivations. Which was my original point. Which is the leverage the producer always possesses in an economic relationship.

 

[king_kong_]

And they will hold out and not renegotiate with FOX if the B1G feels FOX is not honoring their wishes/motivations. Which was my original point. Which is the leverage the producer always possesses in an economic relationship.

The partnership isn’t 50/50. Contracts are signed. There is no holding out. They own the rights and are a majority owner of the network.

FOX swings the stick, B1G gets paid

I’m guessing you spent your time in the public sector, because this is extremely straightforward to anyone with a tiny modicum of business sense/experience

Very, very simple

 

[V-Doub]

The partnership isn’t 50/50. There is no holding out.

FOX swings the stick, B1G gets paid

I’m guessing you spent your time in the public sector, because this is extremely straightforward to anyone with a tiny modicum of business sense/experience

Very, very simple

THAT DOESN’T MATTER! I’m really only gonna go over this one more time. We are the producer of the product that everyone wants and only one other company match (the SEC). We shopped are available distributors, ESPN and FOX are tops (fedex and UPS), we like Fox’s proposal the best. We liked their projected profit numbers so much, their ability to reach the most consumers effectively, we gave them an additional 10% share.

Now we can debate whether that was a good decision or not, but that’s not my point. B1G still dictates the direction of the partnership. 61% represents the financial value we have for FOX’s ability to distribute. It doesn’t mean FOX has 100% autonomy in how our partnership goes forward and B1G has none. That’s not how partnerships work, that’s how partnerships end. And FOX doesn’t want that.

 

[king_kong_]

THAT DOESN’T MATTER! I’m really only gonna go over this one more time. We are the producer of the product everyone wants and only one other company match (the SEC). We shopped are available distributors, ESPN and FOX are tops (fedex and UPS), we like Fox’s proposal the best. We liked their projected profit numbers so much, their ability to reach the most consumers effectively, we gave them an additional 10% share.

Now we can debate whether that was a good decision or not, but that’s not my point. B1G still dictates the direction of the partnership. 61% represents the financial value we have for FOX’s ability to distribute. It doesn’t mean FOX has 100% autonomy in how are partnerships goes forward and B1G has none. That’s not how partnerships work, that’s how partnerships end. And FOX doesn’t want that.

It does matter. A lot.

Do you think an outsourced manufacturer owns the product theyre contracted to produce?

No.

Again, this couldn’t be any more simple

 

[huskerfan66]

So why does the b1g get paid at all? it's a 7 year 8 billion dollar deal.

 

[king_kong_]

And there’s precedent for the B1G “holding out”

We did that in 2020

It cost us hundreds of millions in breach of contract penalties in the form of lost equity in the network that bears our name.

 

[king_kong_]

So why does the b1g get paid at all? it's a 7 year 8 billion dollar deal.

Same reason an outsourced manufacturer gets paid.

We deliver the product for a fee, FOX owns the rights and gets paid a ton, also.

 

[V-Doub]

It does matter. A lot.

Do you think an outsourced manufacturer owns the product theyre contracted to produce?

No.

Again, this couldn’t be any more simple

I am producer, that’s what I do for a living. The distributor only has rights to a portion of my product through the duration of our contract(s). I have multiple options for distribution (as does the B1G) and I won’t renegotiate, when the time comes, if my partner doesn’t respect my interest. I will refuse to sign anything that varies or diverges from our current contract until they respect my financial interests in our partnership.

If FOX wants to make sweeping changes. Then that’s either a breach of contract or a point for renegotiation. That’s how these things work. B1G won’t sign off on these changes to their currently legally binding contract if they don’t like what FOX is doing.

Doesn’t matter if the contract expires next year or 2032. That’s just how these things work. FOX can’t change anything until 2032 either, unless we agree to it.

 

[king_kong_]

I am producer, that’s what I do for a living. The distributor only has rights to a portion of my product through the duration of our contract(s). I have multiple options for distribution (as does the B1G) and I won’t renegotiate, when the time comes, if my partner doesn’t respect my interest. I will refuse to sign anything that varies or diverges from our current contract until they respect my financial interests in our partnership.

If FOX wants to make sweeping changes. Then that’s either a breach of contract or a point for renegotiation. That’s how these things work. B1G won’t sign off on these changes to their currently legally binding contract if they don’t like what FOX is doing.

Doesn’t matter if the contract expires next year or 2032. That’s just how these things work. FOX can’t change anything until 2032 either, unless we agree to it.

In your case it’s a portion of the rights.

In this case FOX owns the B1G football rights. Not a portion, outright.

Until 2032.

B1G will agree to anything that puts another buck in its coffers, as has been proven time and time and time again.

FOX negotiates the deals, FOX sits at the table, we are along for the ride.

They say add oregon, Washington, ucla and usc or there’s no deal. We say thank you sir may I have another

 

[huskerfan66]

In your case it’s a portion of the rights.

In this case FOX owns the B1G football rights. Not a portion, outright.

Until 2032.

B1G will agree to anything that puts another buck in its coffers, as has been proven time and time and time again.

FOX negotiates the deals, FOX sits at the table, we are along for the ride.

They say add oregon, Washington, ucla and usc or there’s no deal. We say thank you sir may I have another

And so does CBS and NBC.

 

[king_kong_]

And so does CBS and NBC.

They’re licensing partners

Not rights owners

FOX negotiated those deals.

 

[V-Doub]

In your case it’s a portion of the rights.

In this case FOX owns the B1G football rights. Not a portion, outright.

Until 2032.

B1G will agree to anything that puts another buck in its coffers, as has been proven time and time and time again.

FOX negotiates the deals, FOX sits at the table, we are along for the ride.

They say add oregon, Washington, ucla and usc or there’s no deal. We say thank you sir may I have another

61% is only a portion. We also have a contract with NBC. Fox doesn’t hold all the cards.

But ok, whatever. I give up…🫤

 

[king_kong_]

Ok, whatever. I give up…🫤

What’s good for FOX will continue to be good for the B1G

But we do not control our own destiny

And to act like we do is nothing short of ignorant

 

[huskerfan66]

Yeah I'm not sure why b1g sold/partnered with fox for 61% of btn. But that only pertains to btn. They don't have 61%of the conference rights. If they owned that much of the conference they wouldn't have to pay the b1g a dime.

The TV deal will get renegotiated when the current 1 is up

 

[king_kong_]

Yeah I'm not sure why b1g sold/partnered with fox for 61% of btn. But that only pertains to btn. They don't have 61%of the conference rights. If they owned that much of the conference they wouldn't have to pay the b1g a dime.

The TV deal will get renegotiated when the current 1 is up

They own 100% of football broadcast rights, paid annually until 2032, in addition to their perpetual controlling stake in BTN.

I’m not sure why everyone conveniently skips over this when it’s written over and over.

 

[huskerfan66]

They own 100% of football broadcast rights, paid annually until 2032, in addition to their perpetual controlling stake in BTN.

I’m not sure why everyone conveniently skips over this when it’s written over and over.

I agree 1000 % with what you just said.

Maybe you didn't mean to, but the way you came across was that b1g sold their soul to fox and there would never be any further negotiation.

Maybe it was the way I was reading it.

But we agree on what you just said

 

[SLOHusker]

we would have to see if k-state was qualified over schools like say baylor, northwestern, boston college, wake forest, and the like. i really don't know but suspect the cats would be included. we will have to see if this comes together to find out.

It depends on how big they go. The problem with adding too many schools is money, quite honestly. They may go to 32 in 16 school divisions that are more geographically aligned.

 

[king_kong_]

I agree 1000 % with what you just said.

Maybe you didn't mean to, but the way you came across was that b1g sold their soul to fox and there would never be any further negotiation.

Maybe it was the way I was reading it.

But we agree on what you just said

It’s extremely likely the B1G never negotiates another rights deal on its own behalf ever again given their current concessions to FOX.

The B1G pretty clearly doesn’t want to be in the rights business and FOX has proven a capable representative.

 

[V-Doub]

I agree 1000 % with what you just said.

Maybe you didn't mean to, but the way you came across was that b1g sold their soul to fox and there would never be any further negotiation.

Maybe it was the way I was reading it.

But we agree on what you just said

We may or may not have sold our soul to FOX. That’s a different debate. But if we did, it’s only for the length of the contract. And FOX can’t change that contract before 2032 either, they can’t make any changes unless the B1G signs off on the contractual changes. Ugh…

 

[king_kong_]

We may or may not have sold our soul to FOX. That’s a different debate. But if we did, it’s only for the length of the contract. And FOX can’t change that contract before 2032 either, they can’t make any changes unless the B1G signs off on the contractual changes. Ugh…

It is a partnership, but it’s far from 50/50.

FOX can (and has) negotiate on our behalf (Friday night games, Peacock) without our input

B1G cannot do the same without FOX

 

[V-Doub]

They own 100% of football broadcast rights, paid annually until 2032, in addition to their perpetual controlling stake in BTN.

I’m not sure why everyone conveniently skips over this when it’s written over and over.

This is not technically true either. NBC holds some distribution rights as well, and I think ESPN also has some rights. FOX owns the lions share by a large margin, but they don’t broadcast 100% of B1G games.

 

[king_kong_]

This is not technically true either. NBC holds some distribution rights as well, and I think ESPN also has some rights. FOX owns the lions share by a large margin, but they don’t broadcast 100% of B1G games.

NBC and CBS are licensing partners

Those deals were negotiated by FOX alongside the B1G (since more than just broadcast rights are inclusive - trademarks, etc.)

And FOX retained weekly deference with regards to broadcast schedule.

 

[V-Doub]

NBC and CBS are licensing partners

Those deals were negotiated by FOX

Duh… that’s how it works. FOX, in consultation with its partner, agree to sell off a small portion of its broadcast rights to NBC. You can say B1G had no say in that deal, to bolster your own desire to be right. But everyone knows that the B1G had to sign off on the NBC partnership.

 

[king_kong_]

Duh… that’s how it works. FOX, in consultation with its partner, agree to sell off a small portion of its broadcast rights to NBC. You can say B1G had no say in that deal, to bolster your own desire to be right. But everyone knows that the B1G had to sign off on the NBC partnership.

B1G was included because broadcasting a game includes more than just rights.

Trademarks, etc.

There was a ton of backlash about the lack of B1G input from the conference members after the ink was dry, if you recall, because FOX sold a bunch of stuff that the league thought it could control but ultimately contractually could not (exclusive streaming, weekdays, night games after Nov 1, etc)

What the B1G signed off on and what FOX sold were different, and it did not matter.

 

[RedCap]

With all the variable in motion right now (NIL, sharing revenue with players, portal rules), I don't think anyone has a handle on where conference or divisions are headed right now. The only certainty is that things will be changing in some way.

 

[huskerfan66]

This is not technically true either. NBC holds some distribution rights as well, and I think ESPN also has some rights. FOX owns the lions share by a large margin, but they don’t broadcast 100% of B1G games.

I think ESPN is out. Both CBS and NBC are in it just like fox

 

[huskerfan66]

Duh… that’s how it works. FOX, in consultation with its partner, agree to sell off a small portion of its broadcast rights to NBC. You can say B1G had no say in that deal, to bolster your own desire to be right. But everyone knows that the B1G had to sign off on the NBC partnership.

Don't like the peacock thing and their broadcast quality has been subpar

 

[king_kong_]

Don't like the peacock thing and their broadcast quality has been subpar

B1G didn’t like it either

Didn’t matter, FOX already sold it

 

[Huskers123456]

What happened to that European Private Equity investing in the Big 12 so they could buy out FSU and Clemson? It almost seems like people are making shit up so fans of teams like Kstate will click on articles and make them money. Good thing kstate fans are too smart for that....

 

[AVeritas]

What happened to that European Private Equity investing in the Big 12 so they could buy out FSU and Clemson? It almost seems like people are making shit up so fans of teams like Kstate will click on articles and make them money. Good thing kstate fans are too smart for that....

this is actually that proposal on steroids. whether it ever happens is for the future to determine. today, we can only look at the landscape of college football - and hoops to a lesser degree - and see that it's dysfunctional if not yet in crisis. examples of that are clemson/fsu's suit against the acc. cal traveling to syracuse to play games. and oregon state and washington state kicked to the curb. so when assets are undervalued or in disorder, as this proposal suggests, in a capitalist society there is a financial opportunity. we shall see.

 

[Huskers123456]

this is actually that proposal on steroids. whether it ever happens is for the future to determine. today, we can only look at the landscape of college football - and hoops to a lesser degree - and see that it's dysfunctional if not yet in crisis. examples of that are clemson/fsu's suit against the acc. cal traveling to syracuse to play games. and oregon state and washington state kicked to the curb. so when assets are undervalued or in disorder, as this proposal suggests, in a capitalist society there is a financial opportunity. we shall see.

So they doubled down on a proposal that never came to fruition. Got it.

 

[AVeritas]

So they doubled down on a proposal that never came to fruition. Got it.

we can assume that's the case since they are making presentations to the sec and b10 presently.

 

[schuele]

this is actually that proposal on steroids. whether it ever happens is for the future to determine. today, we can only look at the landscape of college football - and hoops to a lesser degree - and see that it's dysfunctional if not yet in crisis. examples of that are clemson/fsu's suit against the acc. cal traveling to syracuse to play games. and oregon state and washington state kicked to the curb. so when assets are undervalued or in disorder, as this proposal suggests, in a capitalist society there is a financial opportunity. we shall see.

Back when you were posting your daily FSU-and-Clemson-to-the-Big-12-makes-perfect-sense threads, why were you not pissing your pants about travel between Clemson, S.C. and Tucson?

 

[AVeritas]

Back when you were posting your daily FSU-and-Clemson-to-the-Big-12-makes-perfect-sense threads, why were you not pissing your pants about travel between Clemson, S.C. and Tucson?

not sure i understand what you're talking about. uofa v. clemson - had that happened - would be part of the dysfunction in college sports we are talking about today. it makes no sense, does it, like ucla v. rutgers?

further to that point, dysfunction brings opportunity. thus, this rudy proposal happens.

 

[Zeke2005]

not sure i understand what you're talking about. uofa v. clemson - had that happened - would be part of the dysfunction in college sports we are talking about today. it makes no sense, does it, like ucla v. rutgers?

further to that point, dysfunction brings opportunity. thus, this rudy proposal happens.

How can they just cut out the other 65 schools? That is really messed up.

 

[AVeritas]

How can they just cut out the other 65 schools? That is really messed up.

the rationale is that the other schools are already functionally 'cut out,' as you put it. they financially will not be able to meet the house settlement $20 million pay-to-play.

The House v. NCAA settlement would allow schools to distribute up to $20 million per year to their athletes from a revenue-sharing pool:

• How it works
  The pool is based on a percentage of the average annual revenue of Power Five conferences. The initial percentage is 22%, which is expected to translate to more than $20 million per school. The percentage will increase over time, and the pool will be recalculated every three years.