I'll add this, I think one of the biggest factors that we have faced over the past 10-15 years has been depth. Especially across the OL and DL. IMO, Nebraska's number 1's have always been on par with other Top 25 teams. If we could just play our number 1's against everyone else's number 1's, I'd say we're a Top 25 team. But that's not reality. The difference between Top 10 teams and everyone else is that they have depth. Their there is very little drop off from the starter to the back up. Wisconsin may not recruit at the same level as NU, but their 1's and 2's are at a similar level so there is very little drop off. NU on the other hand, I have always felt as though there was a very significant drop off from our #1 to our #2. For a long time, there were many weeks when NU's toughest opponent was the guy lining up on Scout Team Monday-Friday. We were that deep. That's not the case these days. However for the first time in maybe 10-15 years, I feel like we have solid depth across both lines, and Riley has done that without sacrificing depth at the skill positions. I know we're thin at WR this year, but I think that will resolve itself next year. Once we get to the point that we have depth, where our #2's can be more than just a warm, servicable body, we're going to be really hard to beat. And I really think this year has the potential to be that turning point.
The West
- Thread starter SnohomishRed
- Start date
Lay off the sauce before posting!
It is well known Nebraska out-recruits the shit out of Iowa. On day 1, they have loads more talent according to basically every recruiting service, even though their geographics suck worse than Iowa. National championships help, even if these recruits weren't alive for them.
Despite this, Iowa has put 30 players through the NFL since 2010, including 4 first round picks, compared to Nebraska's 27 and 2 first rounders, respectively. Even if you want to argue NFL roster numbers being basically equal, isn't that still a diss on Nebraska's ability to develop talent? Im not saying this is the gold standard for a programs goals, but if you're going to downplay actual field performance and boast about natural talent, you gotta at some point realize you make yourselves look worse.
If Tommy Armstrong was so obviously injured in 2016 (see: CJ Beathard, George Kittle, and his WRs), why did Nebraska continue to run the QB read option as their only run play? It's not like we were generating any pass rush.
It is well known Nebraska out-recruits the shit out of Iowa. On day 1, they have loads more talent according to basically every recruiting service, even though their geographics suck worse than Iowa. National championships help, even if these recruits weren't alive for them.
Despite this, Iowa has put 30 players through the NFL since 2010, including 4 first round picks, compared to Nebraska's 27 and 2 first rounders, respectively. Even if you want to argue NFL roster numbers being basically equal, isn't that still a diss on Nebraska's ability to develop talent? Im not saying this is the gold standard for a programs goals, but if you're going to downplay actual field performance and boast about natural talent, you gotta at some point realize you make yourselves look worse.
If Tommy Armstrong was so obviously injured in 2016 (see: CJ Beathard, George Kittle, and his WRs), why did Nebraska continue to run the QB read option as their only run play? It's not like we were generating any pass rush.
Where does Nebraska have the talent advantage over everyone?
Where do you have an advantage in talent over Iowa?
OL-Iowa
DL-Iowa
LB-Iowa
DB-Iowa
TE-Iowa
QB-NE (based on preliminary scouting reports)
WR-NE (by a long shot)
RB-IA (Iowa has 2 1,000 yd. rushers in the backfield)
K-NE?
P-NE?
Wisconsin will be projected to be top dog because they've been there 3 of the last 4 years in the west. I think it'll be hard for them to overcome the losses in their LB corps, but that remains to be seen.
Northwestern probably has the most proven QB in the west. He was pretty highly regarded coming out of HS too.
Where do you have an advantage in talent over Iowa?
OL-Iowa
DL-Iowa
LB-Iowa
DB-Iowa
TE-Iowa
QB-NE (based on preliminary scouting reports)
WR-NE (by a long shot)
RB-IA (Iowa has 2 1,000 yd. rushers in the backfield)
K-NE?
P-NE?
Wisconsin will be projected to be top dog because they've been there 3 of the last 4 years in the west. I think it'll be hard for them to overcome the losses in their LB corps, but that remains to be seen.
Northwestern probably has the most proven QB in the west. He was pretty highly regarded coming out of HS too.
DB-Nebraska
K-Nebraska
P-???
Our DL and LB will be solid, but I'll give Iowa the nod until it is proven otherwise.
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Recruited talent is only part of the equation. Developing those players once they arrive on campus is the other part of that equation.
Moronic post.. Don't even try to put Beathard in the same level of injury as Tommie Armstrong. Armstrong had an f'ing artificial hamstring taped to the back of his leg to try to keep him from further injuring his leg. It didn't work. He further injured his leg early in the game. If you couldn't tell that he wasn't even 40% health wise, you weren't paying attention.
Our walkon backup QB, who isn't remotely in the same class of QB as Tommie Armstrong when TA is healthy, would have started against Iowa, had he not had a broken hand. We were forced to play Armstrong, when we didn't want to. That's how bad Armstrong was injured. We would have started his backup, had he not broken his hand.
It took months before Armstrong's hamstring healed. It was obvious he struggled to move during the game.
Again I'll ask, if he was so injured, why was Nebraska's primary run play the read option? I think it's far more likely you watched the game on TV and listened to the droll repitition of the commentators talking about his "artificial hamstring" because there was absolutely nothing else to talk about for Nebraska. We were playing a 4th string corner as a starter FFS. Either TA wasn't bad enough for your OC to adjust play calling or you have a big problem at OC.
I would say Nebraska recruits better talent, and Iowa does a better job of developing players. That said, I think that gap is going to close very quickly given our current coaching staff, and I think that will begin to show on the field this season. Our talent level is going up quickly, and I think they are being developed better than the previous staff. Especially with Diaco, D. Williams, K. Williams, and Parrella. Langs and Davis aren't to the level of the others, and Cav has some work to do, but overall this coaching staff seems to develop players far better than the previous staff. If our player development ever matches or exceeds our recruiting, we're going to consistently be the favorites to win the West, and will be very tough to beat. But the development must continue to to get better before we reach that level.
So you don't really think he was hurt? He wasn't able to play in the bowl game a month later.
Our problem was we had a walking mash unit for an offensive line, mostly made up of walkons, we had a 1 dimensional QB who was at 40% health (maybe), a back up walk on QB with a broken hand.... it was a recipe for disaster late in the year. When your OL isn't good enough to block, and your running QB isn't healthy enough to run and completes barely over 50% of his passes even when he's healthy how do you adjust???
Actually, by the time NU was done playing Wisconsin last year, every team had us figured out. What OSU, Iowa, and Tennessee did effectively was to bracket our outside receivers with one on one coverage. Creep the safeties up for run support, thus daring Tommy to throw. Of course every DC knew Tommy wasn't good enough to beat them with his arm, so they could essentially sell out on the run. Team's only had to defend us horizontally, and not vertically. That's been the case for 8 years, maybe longer.
This year will be vastly different. Teams will be forced to defend us both horizontally and vertically. Unlike the last 8-10 years teams won't be able to just sell out on the run. I think our passing threat will actually open up the running game for us this year, simply because we have been so run oriented for so long. Our OL is 180 degree different from last year, they are more talented and our back ups are talented as well, they're not walk ons who are just warm bodies. For the first time in a very long time, if one of our starting OL goes down the guy backing him up is going to be really solid. I think I read that we only ran 20 plays all season last year where an Olinemen was pulling. We ran more plays with pulling linemen during our spring game. That's going to be a big factor in slowing down defenses this season because Safeties and Linebackers are going to be kept honest with their reads. It has the potential to give our RB's that extra step that nets 5 yards instead of 1 or 2. It has the potential to give our receivers (especially Speilman and Lindsey inside) an extra step. And Speilman and Lindsey are fast enough that if given a step, they will create space, and if Lee lives up to the hype, he's going to punish a lot of teams for slow reads.
All of this has to play out on the field and no one knows what that will look like. But the potential is certainly there, and anyone who underestimates it is going to get beat.
Your last point is the most important I think. The problem with Nebraska over the past ten years, with the exception of 2009/Suh, is that our defense has been very spotty, giving up way too many big plays, and not being able to stop teams in critical situations. Our defense has allowed even mediocre offenses to move the chains, bleed clock, and ruin our field position. Nor have they generated turnovers or been disruptive. A great defense can keep a team in ANY game against ANY opponent. Again, 2009 sticks out since that team had one of our best defenses in forever coupled with one of THE most putrid offenses I have ever seen at Nebraska. And yet we were in every game we played. I think Riley gets this and it explains why he fired his close friend of 20 years over the damn phone. He needed to move fast to get Diaco. In my opinion, getting Diaco may be one of the most important and positive things to happen for Husker football in a long time
Solid take. I see things boiling down to how effective our Oline can be and from that, whether Lee does have the goods. We know he throws a great ball. But will he make enough good decisions when the games are in doubt. We have essentially had an extra running back in the backfield since 09. That has been thrilling to watch at times, but good defenses find ways to negate it. Our backs are good enough to do what we need in the run game. And now we have a QB that allows Langs and Riley to use the playbook they brought with them. But if the Oline can't get it done against what will be some very solid B1G Dlines, it won't really matter. Lee has to have room and time to operate. However (and craz alludes to this), the fact that Lee's throws "get there in a hurry" may give us an advantage in the quick throw game. And we have players in Tyjon, DPE and Spielman who can make quick work of defenders who are either out of position or who are slow to diagnose.
Can't wait for Saturday.
Yep. I crave a 4 WR set, with DPE, Speilman, and Lindsey in a trips formation... that's a lot of speed on one side of the field that the majority of teams won't have the athletes to defend.
These are all great posts, guys. I totally agree with the following:
1.) One, a nod to the unusually polite Iowa posters on the thread, yes, Iowa develops damn good players at non-skill positions (their lines, especially), because right now, that is one of the only advantages they have. It's an excellent argument for "find a thing you do well and emphasize the hell out of it." That and good luck got them to 12-0 two years ago. It also explains our losing record against them lately; we've really sucked at O-line and D-line, and that's where they truly do not suck.
2.) The injuries on our team last year are something I completely forgot about, but you all are correct, we were terribly banged up, and our QB situation after Armstrong started to get bad injuries was horrible. This was lack of depth mostly, and the fact that NU was still relying on, as you guys pointed out, converted running backs/DB's playing QB.
So, why I am optimistic about this year but ESPECIALLY about 2018:
Iowa and Wisconsin are the two best teams in the West right now (sorry Northwestern, you're good, but you're not ever the best), and they win not through talent level, but through well developed players, far less drop-off in skill between starters and backups, and by rarely shooting themselves in the foot.
Right now, we're completely rebuilding our program. We have what I see as some of the best assistant coaches in the league (Williams, Parella, and Bray especially have proven to be very, very good coaches), we have Bob Diaco lighting a fire under our defense in ways this program hasn't seen in a decade, and we are recruiting some really, really talented athletes at the skill positions. It's not perfect. Donte Williams has shown he can recruit like a champ, but what are his player development skills like? How good is Booker? Sure, maybe Coach Cav hasn't had a good unit or maybe he's not the best at coaching an O-line, maybe Langsdorf is "the quarterback whisperer" but only when he has an actual quarterback to work with, and maybe Riley is an offensive genius or maybe he's not, but a team doesn't have to be perfect to start being extremely successful, it just has to be "good," like Iowa and Wisconsin, especially Wisconsin.
For us, the pieces are falling into place to bring us back to prominence. It's been a very, very long time, with a lot of nasty experiences, and to be fair, I don't see it all clicking this year (an 8-4 record should be viewed as a smashing success, in my opinion, given that we are fielding what is still a work-in-progress), but look at our 2018 class. Look at who will be starting in 2018, 2019, and 2020. We're getting there. GBR!
1.) One, a nod to the unusually polite Iowa posters on the thread, yes, Iowa develops damn good players at non-skill positions (their lines, especially), because right now, that is one of the only advantages they have. It's an excellent argument for "find a thing you do well and emphasize the hell out of it." That and good luck got them to 12-0 two years ago. It also explains our losing record against them lately; we've really sucked at O-line and D-line, and that's where they truly do not suck.
2.) The injuries on our team last year are something I completely forgot about, but you all are correct, we were terribly banged up, and our QB situation after Armstrong started to get bad injuries was horrible. This was lack of depth mostly, and the fact that NU was still relying on, as you guys pointed out, converted running backs/DB's playing QB.
So, why I am optimistic about this year but ESPECIALLY about 2018:
Iowa and Wisconsin are the two best teams in the West right now (sorry Northwestern, you're good, but you're not ever the best), and they win not through talent level, but through well developed players, far less drop-off in skill between starters and backups, and by rarely shooting themselves in the foot.
Right now, we're completely rebuilding our program. We have what I see as some of the best assistant coaches in the league (Williams, Parella, and Bray especially have proven to be very, very good coaches), we have Bob Diaco lighting a fire under our defense in ways this program hasn't seen in a decade, and we are recruiting some really, really talented athletes at the skill positions. It's not perfect. Donte Williams has shown he can recruit like a champ, but what are his player development skills like? How good is Booker? Sure, maybe Coach Cav hasn't had a good unit or maybe he's not the best at coaching an O-line, maybe Langsdorf is "the quarterback whisperer" but only when he has an actual quarterback to work with, and maybe Riley is an offensive genius or maybe he's not, but a team doesn't have to be perfect to start being extremely successful, it just has to be "good," like Iowa and Wisconsin, especially Wisconsin.
For us, the pieces are falling into place to bring us back to prominence. It's been a very, very long time, with a lot of nasty experiences, and to be fair, I don't see it all clicking this year (an 8-4 record should be viewed as a smashing success, in my opinion, given that we are fielding what is still a work-in-progress), but look at our 2018 class. Look at who will be starting in 2018, 2019, and 2020. We're getting there. GBR!
Well duh, perhaps you would like to type the content of your posts like someone without a traumatic brain injury.
"When does recruited talent not = talent on the field" tells me that you think talent on the field is solely dependent on the level of recruited talent, which isn't even remotely the case.
Well stated. My problem with TruHusker's post was that it was worded as if the talent on the field was solely dependent on the level of talent that was brought into the program, which is patently incorrect.
Um, because it wasn't. I think you need to rewatch the game. Do you realize that literally on the 2nd play of the game the announcers even say that "They (Nebraska) haven't run the read option at full speed in practice or during the warm-ups." I think that tells you how injured Tommie Armstrong was.
Generally if a play is going to be a staple of your offensive attack, I would think you would run that play at full speed during practice, and more importantly, during warm-ups. That in and of itself tells you that TA wasn't remotely healthy enough to be playing in the game. But we had no other options.
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