The root of the problem, defined

[redwine65]

A lot has changed since 1980-1997 with regard to passing the ball. Spread offenses came on the scene in the B12 and elsewhere, the West Coast offense was tried at NU and was successful under Callahan but our defense stunk under Cosgrove, and the NFL became much more into passing the ball than relying on running backs to carry their offenses.

Nebraska has had some great passing qb's. Ferragamo, Humm, Tagge, Berringer, Ganz, Zac Taylor are a few off the top of my head. We also had some players like Churchich and Claridge before the 70's that had some excellent passing stats.

I think that Coach Riley wants to have a balanced attack. That relies on throwing the ball more than 25% of the time. I doubt that there is an NFL team now that throws the ball less than 40% of the time.

Tanner Lee I believe will be for Riley what Zac Taylor was for Callahan. Next year we will have two QB's ( 3 unless Gebbia is a rs) that can run the offense that Langsdorf has wanted to incorporate but has not been able to until now.

don't get me wrong, I hope the qb's coming in next year do great, hopefully we will have a o-line and receivers to help. Im not rooting against anything..Im just giving my historical perspective on what kind of offense works in the confines of lincoln Nebraska.

 

[redwine65]

Who then? Who is it?

could be plenty folks, I'd be ok with frost.

 

[Truehuskerfan]

could be plenty folks, I'd be ok with frost.

That does not square at all with your 25% passing requirement. UCF passed the ball 48% of the time this year.

 

[redwine65]

There is one very very scary stat, armstrong is the leading passer in Nebraska history. don't let that sink in but note it for sure...lol

 

[redwine65]

That does not square at all with your 25% passing requirement. UCF passed the ball 48% of the time this year.

he's learning on the job, patiences grasshopper

 

[regibson1]

There is one very very scary stat, armstrong is the leading passer in Nebraska history. don't let that sink in but note it for sure...lol

I believe that Armstrong and Martinez are the only NU qb's that started all 4 years although Crouch started 5 games his freshman year.. Didn't Armstrong break Martinez's passing record to be the leading passer in NU history?

 

[huskersdewclaw]

We have a bad d coordinator and a bad offensive line coach. Coaches he had at Oregon state and he couldn't win there and all of whom would have been fired last year when they went 0-11

BUT BUT BUT we have Tavita coaching offensive front?

 

[TwinsRRUs]

don't get me wrong, I hope the qb's coming in next year do great, hopefully we will have a o-line and receivers to help. Im not rooting against anything..Im just giving my historical perspective on what kind of offense works in the confines of lincoln Nebraska.

I am not arguing either point, but want to ask a serious question if I may since I have heard people claim it many times on this board of the years but have never understood the reasoning.

What makes Lincoln, Nebraska the worst place in all of college football to throw the ball?

WIND?
How is it different than Buffalo, NY, Lubbock, TX, Boston, MA, Oklahoma City, OK, or Houston, TX when it comes to wind? (All in/close to the top 10 windiest cities in the USA)

I am guessing wind does not make bad passing football because Texas Tech and Oklahoma State pass the ball a lot near those top 10 "windy" cities.

WIND + COLD?
Maybe it is the wind when it is accompanied by the cold that determines a bad passing condition? (Wind moves the ball in the air plus fingers are froze so hard to catch the ball)

If that is true, how does Tom Brady do it in New England without a dome?
(Won Super Bowl in 2015 while passing 53% of the time that year)

Green Bay won in 2011 while passing it 58% of the time. Cold, but not always windy.
New York won it in 2012 while passing 56.7% of the time. Cold, but not always windy.

 

[TwinsRRUs]

If Nebraska had Alabama's defense every year, why would they not be able to win a (conference or national) championship with a pass happy offense?
(Especially after 6 years into a coach's tenure to recruit his QB and players for his scheme)

Most teams that win it all (or make the playoffs) have a great defense and a good QB if they are a passing team (pass more than 30% of the time since Devany passed 29% of the time in 1970 and 1971)


I would think that if Alabama played every game in Lincoln, Nebraska this year, that they would be able to run the same offense they do in Tuscaloosa, AL.

Bill Callahan had a top 30 scoring offense in 2006 and 2007 that leaned on passing and had 7 home games.


Like someone said in another thread recently, you aren't going to have a lot of success changing back and forth between a pass happy offense and run heavy offense when you fire coaches every 4 years.

You constantly have to recruit players to match your scheme, so since we have a "pass happy" coach, lets continue on so we do not go through another few crappy years.

 

[huskerfan1414]

I am not arguing either point, but want to ask a serious question if I may since I have heard people claim it many times on this board of the years but have never understood the reasoning.

What makes Lincoln, Nebraska the worst place in all of college football to throw the ball?

WIND?
How is it different than Buffalo, NY, Lubbock, TX, Boston, MA, Oklahoma City, OK, or Houston, TX when it comes to wind? (All in/close to the top 10 windiest cities in the USA)

I am guessing wind does not make bad passing football because Texas Tech and Oklahoma State pass the ball a lot near those top 10 "windy" cities.

WIND + COLD?
Maybe it is the wind when it is accompanied by the cold that determines a bad passing condition? (Wind moves the ball in the air plus fingers are froze so hard to catch the ball)

If that is true, how does Tom Brady do it in New England without a dome?
(Won Super Bowl in 2015 while passing 53% of the time that year)

Green Bay won in 2011 while passing it 58% of the time. Cold, but not always windy.
New York won it in 2012 while passing 56.7% of the time. Cold, but not always windy.

Good god. You are going to compare us to two middlide of the pack teams and then the two best qbs in the nfl?
Insane

 

[TwinsRRUs]

Good god. You are going to compare us to two middlide of the pack teams and then the two best qbs in the nfl?
Insane

????

Who cares how good a team as a whole is in this?

I am only saying that some teams are successful on offense in windy and cold cities and asking why Lincoln is different.

Serious question. Please answer if you know.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On a side note, you make it sound as if a team has a great QB, then they can be pass happy and successful.

If that is true, we can succeed with a pass happy offense in Lincoln, Nebraska.

 

[tone1017]

This is insane, the problem is not the style of offense. We were successful in the past with one style of offense, that does not mean we can only be successful with that offense. Why was that offense successful? Because we had incredible talent blocking and running the ball. If we had a line riddled with all Americans and a heisman worthy qb and rb like Frazier and Phillips then yes, pound the rock. The difference is talent. Not scheme, not play calling, not style. Talent. We don't need to constantly rehash this. We either get elite talent or we lose to teams that do, no matter what scheme we run. Sure we may spring an upset here or there but to consistently win against top ten teams you have to have top ten talent, no matter what offense you run.

 

[dckchusker]

A lot has changed since 1980-1997 with regard to passing the ball. Spread offenses came on the scene in the B12 and elsewhere, the West Coast offense was tried at NU and was successful under Callahan but our defense stunk under Cosgrove, and the NFL became much more into passing the ball than relying on running backs to carry their offenses.
.

I am trying to get my head wrapped around the bolded statement. Callahan's WCO was a disaster in '04 with Joe Dailey serving INT's at a rate that would amaze Tommy Armstrong and Taylor Martinez. In '05, the running game went AWOL, and NU as a team did not rush for 1,000 yards that year. Hence, the O stalled far too often. '06 was the best overall year for the offense because Callahn made a commitment to "pounding the rock" and stuck to it. Made it to the CCG. In '07, the offense stalled under Sam Keller and didn't come to life until Joe Ganz took over. Then the offense finally looked like what Callahan wanted it to look like, but the defense had cratered under Cosgrove and it was too late. The best year for the WCO was first year under Pelini, when Shawn Watson coached a productive offense that controlled the ball and was pretty efficient. But overall, calling Cally's offense successful seems like a stretch.

 

[TwinsRRUs]

I am trying to get my head wrapped around the bolded statement. Callahan's WCO was a disaster in '04 with Joe Dailey serving INT's at a rate that would amaze Tommy Armstrong and Taylor Martinez. In '05, the running game went AWOL, and NU as a team did not rush for 1,000 yards that year. Hence, the O stalled far too often. '06 was the best overall year for the offense because Callahn made a commitment to "pounding the rock" and stuck to it. Made it to the CCG. In '07, the offense stalled under Sam Keller and didn't come to life until Joe Ganz took over. Then the offense finally looked like what Callahan wanted it to look like, but the defense had cratered under Cosgrove and it was too late. The best year for the WCO was first year under Pelini, when Shawn Watson coached a productive offense that controlled the ball and was pretty efficient. But overall, calling Cally's offense successful seems like a stretch.

Do you believe the results would have been different if Callahan had a great QB to run his offense all 4 years instead of having QBs that did not fit his offense until it was too late?

Callahan 04 and 05 reminds me of Riley in 15 and 16 where the QB isn't good enough for a coach that wants to pass that much.

 

[HuskerRick]

I am not arguing either point, but want to ask a serious question if I may since I have heard people claim it many times on this board of the years but have never understood the reasoning.

What makes Lincoln, Nebraska the worst place in all of college football to throw the ball?

WIND?
How is it different than Buffalo, NY, Lubbock, TX, Boston, MA, Oklahoma City, OK, or Houston, TX when it comes to wind? (All in/close to the top 10 windiest cities in the USA)

I am guessing wind does not make bad passing football because Texas Tech and Oklahoma State pass the ball a lot near those top 10 "windy" cities.

WIND + COLD?
Maybe it is the wind when it is accompanied by the cold that determines a bad passing condition? (Wind moves the ball in the air plus fingers are froze so hard to catch the ball)

If that is true, how does Tom Brady do it in New England without a dome?
(Won Super Bowl in 2015 while passing 53% of the time that year)

Green Bay won in 2011 while passing it 58% of the time. Cold, but not always windy.
New York won it in 2012 while passing 56.7% of the time. Cold, but not always windy.

I would ask, how many of those stats were during cold and windy days? How many of those games were away games? Those teams also played games in domes in cold cities. To come out and throw full stats on the wall, they don't stick, necessarily. One to be accurate would need to know the temperature and wind velocity during the games, in which the wind part would be hard to determine and the direction, for or against the passer. Plus how many passes were thrown during those cold, cold and windy games. What was the distances of those passes?

 

[otismotis08]

This is insane, the problem is not the style of offense. We were successful in the past with one style of offense, that does not mean we can only be successful with that offense. Why was that offense successful? Because we had incredible talent blocking and running the ball. If we had a line riddled with all Americans and a heisman worthy qb and rb like Frazier and Phillips then yes, pound the rock. The difference is talent. Not scheme, not play calling, not style. Talent. We don't need to constantly rehash this. We either get elite talent or we lose to teams that do, no matter what scheme we run. Sure we may spring an upset here or there but to consistently win against top ten teams you have to have top ten talent, no matter what offense you run.

Need Jimmy and Joe.

 

[H.T.O.]

I hope the qb's coming in next year do great,

No, you don't. You haven't changed a bit, you only want NU to be successful when you approve of the head coach and/or the offensive system he runs. You're the typical "Cletus run the ball" guy.

I'd be ok with frost.

Of course you would be.

 

[TwinsRRUs]

I would ask, how many of those stats were during cold and windy days? How many of those games were away games? Those teams also played games in domes in cold cities. To come out and throw full stats on the wall, they don't stick, necessarily. One to be accurate would need to know the temperature and wind velocity during the games, in which the wind part would be hard to determine and the direction, for or against the passer. Plus how many passes were thrown during those cold, cold and windy games. What was the distances of those passes?

I love what you brought up! That's a great point and answer.

The weather in Lincoln is not always windy and not always cold, so for someone to claim that a certain type of offense will not work in Lincoln because of the weather is ludicrous. Lincoln's weather is not an anomaly in college football.

Now if the argument was because we are out in the boonies and too far from consistent talent and no coach could get talent to come here, then that is an argument that could be made (albeit incorrect IMHO since I believe the best staff in all of college football could come here, recruit, and eventually win consistently).

 

[nebcountry]

Seems like if you want to pass as much as you run, then you better have an equally competent OLine that is just as good at pass blocking as run blocking. If you don't, then you'll end up being about 11th in the B1G in rushing.

The pro's. So a pro team has a weakness, they look at who has proved themselves in college, when their draft choice comes up, they take a guy from their list. A lot less uncertainty picking a grown man out of college then potlucking a kid out of high school, all the while competing with a bunch of other teams to woo a recruit.

Mannion played 4 years at OrSU. OrSU's record during that time and Mannion's qbrating:

2011 3 - 9, qbrating = 127
2012 9 - 4, qbrating = 139
2013 7 - 6, qbrating = 147
2014 5 - 7, qbrating = 128

There's more to winning football games then just having a throwing qb.

 

[redwine65]

(the following words are not to be taken in a liberalism sense, I mean exactly what I type)

 

[Archie Graham]

This is insane, the problem is not the style of offense. We were successful in the past with one style of offense, that does not mean we can only be successful with that offense. Why was that offense successful? Because we had incredible talent blocking and running the ball. If we had a line riddled with all Americans and a heisman worthy qb and rb like Frazier and Phillips then yes, pound the rock. The difference is talent. Not scheme, not play calling, not style. Talent. We don't need to constantly rehash this. We either get elite talent or we lose to teams that do, no matter what scheme we run. Sure we may spring an upset here or there but to consistently win against top ten teams you have to have top ten talent, no matter what offense you run.

WINNER!

 

[YouGotSwatted!]

This is insane, the problem is not the style of offense. We were successful in the past with one style of offense, that does not mean we can only be successful with that offense. Why was that offense successful? Because we had incredible talent blocking and running the ball. If we had a line riddled with all Americans and a heisman worthy qb and rb like Frazier and Phillips then yes, pound the rock. The difference is talent. Not scheme, not play calling, not style. Talent. We don't need to constantly rehash this. We either get elite talent or we lose to teams that do, no matter what scheme we run. Sure we may spring an upset here or there but to consistently win against top ten teams you have to have top ten talent, no matter what offense you run.

Top ten recruiting classes? We'll never have that consistently at NU. Top 20 with a player development advantage should be expected.

 

[redwine65]

the 95 team recruiting ranking was 26th.

 

[dckchusker]

because[/I] of the weather is ludicrous. Lincoln's weather is not an anomaly in college football.

Well, call Tom Osborne ludicrous then. That is his explanation for why he changed offenses from the 70's to the 80's, and he has repeated it many times. He played many games against OU in November in bitter cold, strong winds, and driving rains. He noticed that the conditions didn't affect OU's offense as much as it did his.

You're right that weather in Lincoln is not anomaly. It's common across the Midwest which is why the Big Ten tends to be more run oriented than the Pac-12 or teams in south. The NU-Illinois game in '15 was played in a 30 mph hour wind and heavy rain, and Langs kept having TA chuck the ball all over the place to no avail. Mich St. & Ohio St. played in similar conditions later that season, and neither team passed effectively.

I hope Riley is successful not matter what he runs, but factoring in the weather is not a fan thing. It comes from TO himself.

 

[Rocky Mtn Husker]

the 95 team recruiting ranking was 26th.

Not surprised. TO didn't need top 10 recruiting classes to win--he figured out an offense that could be successful with very good talent at key positions and he developed much of the rest.

 

[tone1017]

the 95 team recruiting ranking was 26th.

In 1995. The rules regarding roster management and make up as well as quality of recruiting services, etc. are not even remotely similar. Give me the last champion that didn't consistently get top classes. Bama? Ohio state? Fsu? Maybe Auburn, so all we need to do is find the next Cam. Bama again? Florida? LSU? Texas? USC? Miami? Spoiler alert, it's not 1995.

 

[redwine65]

In 1995. The rules regarding roster management and make up as well as quality of recruiting services, etc. are not even remotely similar. Give me the last champion that didn't consistently get top classes. Bama? Ohio state? Fsu? Maybe Auburn, so all we need to do is find the next Cam. Bama again? Florida? LSU? Texas? USC? Miami? Spoiler alert, it's not 1995.

remind me , what recruits we took from them again?

 

[TwinsRRUs]

Well, call Tom Osborne ludicrous then. That is his explanation for why he changed offenses from the 70's to the 80's, and he has repeated it many times. He played many games against OU in November in bitter cold, strong winds, and driving rains. He noticed that the conditions didn't affect OU's offense as much as it did his.

You're right that weather in Lincoln is not anomaly. It's common across the Midwest which is why the Big Ten tends to be more run oriented than the Pac-12 or teams in south. The NU-Illinois game in '15 was played in a 30 mph hour wind and heavy rain, and Langs kept having TA chuck the ball all over the place to no avail. Mich St. & Ohio St. played in similar conditions later that season, and neither team passed effectively.

I hope Riley is successful not matter what he runs, but factoring in the weather is not a fan thing. It comes from TO himself.

Thank you for the response and explanation of TOs thinking. I actually recall hearing that at one point in time.

If a team has 1 or maybe 2 games a year where the conditions are that way, then another offense should work just fine for the other 10 or 11 games.

I don't think everything should be changed just for that chance. Running the ball has to be done and should be a huge part of the game plan, just not 75% of (plays) game plan for 12 games a year.

Mike Leach ran the ball only around 35% of the time this year. That is pass happy and I don't want that for NU and I don't think Mike Riley ever had any intentions on passing that much.

Langsdorf just needs to know when to mix the run vs pass in his play calling to keep the defense honest. Also, he needs to asjust his game plan and call fewer pass plays on those cold windy game days.

When a defense stacks the box when you need 2 yards for a first down, the running game should be strong enough to get those 2 yards most of the time.