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Switch to 3-4 cause DE decommits?

ge5446

ge5446

Walk On
Aug 15, 2011
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I have no knowledge, just a few thoughts.. Would it make sense that the recent decommit at DE and potential for another would have been caused by a change in the defensive scheme?

Can anyone give an X's and O's explanation of the advantage of the 3-4 and how it would help NU in the B1G and has Nebraska ever ran a 3-4? Seems to me a 3-4 is counterintuitive when competing with run first teams, but by that thinking a 5-2 would be best and that ain't happening.

Maybe the Davis twins have the athleticism to play DE in a 3-4 with Mick in the middle.. purely speculation, something fun to ponder.
 
ge5446 said:
I have no knowledge, just a few thoughts.. Would it make sense that the recent decommit at DE and potential for another would have been caused by a change in the defensive scheme?

Can anyone give an X's and O's explanation of the advantage of the 3-4 and how it would help NU in the B1G and has Nebraska ever ran a 3-4? Seems to me a 3-4 is counterintuitive when competing with run first teams, but by that thinking a 5-2 would be best and that ain't happening.

Maybe the Davis twins have the athleticism to play DE in a 3-4 with Mick in the middle.. purely speculation, something fun to ponder.
Click to expand...

Have no dog in the fight with the 3-4 vice 4-3.

But I'd hate to see Mick manning the nose after getting pushed around like he did at Iowa.

One positive from a recruiting aspect might be that JP can sell "bigger bodies" as a former DT than he can traditional DE's.
 
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B1G Teams Switch to 3-4 Scheme from 2014

Wisconsin, Maryland and Indiana

"Wisconsin finished in the top seven nationally in points allowed (16.3 ppg), rush yards allowed (102.5 ypg), total yards allowed (305.1 ypg) and third-down conversions against (30.6 percent). Aranda likes having an extra linebacker to defend spread offenses, and the 3-4 also has the flexibility to stop the traditional offenses for which the Big Ten is known.

"The power run fits in well with the 3-4," Aranda said.

"The offenses are so wide open, and you have to be able to cover the entire field," Knorr said. "Having the ability to drop eight at times, gives you an extra guy in coverage. Having the ability to have five guys in a great position to blitz right away gives you the versatility we're looking for, while being able to keep our disguise."

The disguise, according to Aranda, is what can set 3-4 defenses apart. He wants to keep offenses guessing about the fourth rusher: Will it be the weakside inside linebacker? The strongside outside linebacker? A safety? A cornerback?

As long as the outside linebackers have the ability to both rush and cover, without giving up too much, defensive play-callers can really mix things up."
 
Porcher would be a better fit as a 3-4 defensive end in my opinion so that wouldn't be a good reason to decommit but that's neither here nor there.

A 3-4 would help NU simply by requiring the Huskers to bring in enough D-line recruits to fill three spots rather than four. Teams have had success stopping the run with a 3-4 as long as you can find a good nose tackle and some large D-ends who can tie up blockers. As many know, 3-4 teams usually blitz from various angles in order to pressure the QB. Having four LB positions means recruiting more LB's and having more of those types of athletes usually lends itself to better special teams play.
 
Thanks for posting, that makes sense. Having an offense doesn't hurt either...

Quite obviously, the key is having a few studs at linebacker and I'm not convinced we have that.
 
Unless I missed it, Banker has no experience coordinating a 3-4. Bray doesn't have any experience either. Stewart has lengthy experience in it. Parrella, I don't know what he was a part of in the NFL. DWills, unknown to me as well.

30 front with one known coach with experience, 2 with none and although there's 2 unknown, it smells like a recipe for disaster. At least to me it does, with this current defensive staff. I do remember coach McBride switching fronts and philosophy late in his career so it has been done before.

I'm a big fan of Nate Woody, he runs a dang solid 3-4 and his defenders fly to the ball.
 
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GBRhuskers said:
Unless I missed it, Banker has no experience coordinating a 3-4. Bray doesn't have any experience either. Stewart has lengthy experience in it. Parrella, I don't know what he was a part of in the NFL. DWills, unknown to me as well.

30 front with one known coach with experience, 2 with none and although there's 2 unknown, it smells like a recipe for disaster. At least to me it does, with this current defensive staff. I do remember coach McBride switching fronts and philosophy late in his career so it has been done before.

I'm a big fan of Nate Woody, he runs a dang solid 3-4 and his defenders fly to the ball.
Click to expand...

I thought McBride switched from 3-4 to 4-3 when we went on that run in the 90's.
 
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GBRhuskers said:
Unless I missed it, Banker has no experience coordinating a 3-4. Bray doesn't have any experience either. Stewart has lengthy experience in it. Parrella, I don't know what he was a part of in the NFL. DWills, unknown to me as well.

30 front with one known coach with experience, 2 with none and although there's 2 unknown, it smells like a recipe for disaster. At least to me it does, with this current defensive staff. I do remember coach McBride switching fronts and philosophy late in his career so it has been done before.

I'm a big fan of Nate Woody, he runs a dang solid 3-4 and his defenders fly to the ball.
Click to expand...
If you are aware of both and a fan of the 3-4; why wouldn't they be ? Some great posts here.

- Its their profession and they are often directed to form; by a DC or head
coach. They study and observe the field; all the teams, not just the grass.

- The O faces this defense in the B1G and our D coaches help the O
coaches deal with it. This is a big part of HCMR's process; game plans
are reviewed and discussed by the full staff; as are results.
- We learn and adapt as we go; look at the FB we used and coming up
with packages for TA ( when he would / could, choose to follow them ).
- Your statement could be misinterpreted to mean we have inexperienced
coaches. We have multiple coaches with NFL experience and on and
on. Again, why wouldn't they adapt - Wiscy gave some great teams
fits ( for example ).
- For coaches on this level, things just aren't that difficult. When you have
to coach against it ; its all hands on deck. Some here believe we have
one of the top LB coaches in the country.
- If you see a formation, that similar teams, in similiar areas have great
success with; imo, your going to consider it. So it sounds like we are
looking at all our options. We seemed to be trying to blitz more over
time. GBR
 
GretnaShawn said:
We don't have a traditional 3-4 nose tackle body on the roster. We don't have a coaching staff that has ever ran the 3-4. I don't not know why this gets brought up so much.
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Look at the game film. There were plenty of times we were in an odd front.

Then look at recruiting. We are not recruiting the number of DLinemen and are recruiting more linebackers with experience rushing the passer off the edge. It started last year.
 
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I think a lot of people think that 3-4 means there are 3 dudes on the line, head up on the tackles and center, and 4 guys playing linebacker with maybe one of them coming on a blitz. It's simply not the case most of the time. That extra gap is too much for just about any DL and ILBs to handle vs any capable running team.

In a 3-4 vs 2-back sets, you'd probably usually see an "under" front, which slides the DL down a gap into shades. That means a guy outside shade of the TE, the strongside OT, the strongside of the OC, the outside of the weakside OG, and outside of the weakside OT.

There is nearly always an OLB on the line of scrimmage vs a TE or vs 2-back sets, if not both OLBs, making it a 4 or 5 man front, whether it comes from the strongside or weakside, or both.
 
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So we want to make a change in scheme......that would set this program back 2 to 3 years defensively.

And possibly lead to the firing of Riley.

We have beat Wisconsin and Iowa in a defense that focused on stopping the pass.

Stop making excuses and just win.
 
This is what we need, a little more speculation. OK, think about this, the supposition is that DE commits may be leaving because of an alleged change to a 3-4 D. Common sense seems to evade me here - why would Nebraska still be recruiting the kids if they KNOW they are changing the D? Why would it be such a secret that only the DE's know and no one else does. Shhhh, its a secret

And McBride did run the 5-2 faithfully for years and switched to a 4-3. Anyone remember the term "Monster" for a safety? The switch to the 4-3 and more mobile/athletic LB's led to a more aggressive D.
 
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jeans15 said:
So we want to make a change in scheme......that would set this program back 2 to 3 years defensively.

And possibly lead to the firing of Riley.

We have beat Wisconsin and Iowa in a defense that focused on stopping the pass.

Stop making excuses and just win.
Click to expand...


Ok, what excuses?

As far as setting the defense back years, I beg to differ. IF, the staff is going to switch to an odd front, and I don't know that they are, you only set yourself back if you don't have the personnel to run it. MY OPINION is that they are recruiting different athletes on all 3 levels of the defense. These players are versitile enough to play a variety of fronts and coverages.

That has not always been the case. Past coaches recruited to their system. That is recruiting to Xs and Os not jimmys and Joe's.
 
Tuco Salamanca said:
Look at the game film. There were plenty of times we were in an odd front.

Then look at recruiting. We are not recruiting the number of DLinemen and are recruiting more linebackers with experience rushing the passer off the edge. It started last year.
Click to expand...

But where are the nose tackles? The biggest DT recruit is Watts at 6'3 305. If Valentine was still here, I could see it happening. But you need a big nose tackle for a 3-4 to be effective.

Wisconsin has a 6'2 340 NT and a 6'3 350 NT.

Nebraska doesn't have a DT over 300 on their roster (http://www.huskers.com/SportSelect.dbml?SPSID=4&SPID=22).
 
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Tuco Salamanca said:
Ok, what excuses?

As far as setting the defense back years, I beg to differ. IF, the staff is going to switch to an odd front, and I don't know that they are, you only set yourself back if you don't have the personnel to run it. MY OPINION is that they are recruiting different athletes on all 3 levels of the defense. These players are versitile enough to play a variety of fronts and coverages.

That has not always been the case. Past coaches recruited to their system. That is recruiting to Xs and Os not jimmys and Joe's.
Click to expand...


We don't need to change defenses. We need to do what we do better. We improved on the previous year. I think we will improve this year too, based on the people we have returning.
 
jeans15 said:
We don't need to change defenses. We need to do what we do better. We improved on the previous year. I think we will improve this year too, based on the people we have returning.
Click to expand...

We improved because the staff changed what they do to fit the personnel. Not as much man to man, little to no blitzing, bend but don't break, less attacking.
 
GretnaShawn said:
But where are the nose tackles? The biggest DT recruit is Watts at 6'3 305. If Valentine was still here, I could see it happening. But you need a big nose tackle for a 3-4 to be effective.

Wisconsin has a 6'2 340 NT and a 6'3 350 NT.

Nebraska doesn't have a DT over 300 on their roster (http://www.huskers.com/SportSelect.dbml?SPSID=4&SPID=22).
Click to expand...


Again, look at Daniels and Watts. Both over 300 as high schoolers. 4 of the top 5 dudes on the offer list are 290 or above, 3 of 5 over 300. As you said, we don't have 1 now but all of a sudden we are going to recruit exclusively 300 lb DT?

I don't think I said they will be switching exclusively to an odd front. But I do believe they want to have players to go that way when there is a need.
 
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TruHusker said:
Why would it be such a secret that only the DE's know and no one else does. Shhhh, its a secret
Click to expand...

The WRs know too. That's what KJJ's "silent commits" tweet was about. We are silently committed to switching to a 3-4. ;)
 
Honestly a 3-4 works better than a 4-3 in my opinion if you've got a good nt. It creates havoc in the extreme.

Easier said than done but well...

Honestly we've got plenty of guys that can handle the 3-4 DE position (Davis twins would be a load). Stoltenberg maybe can handle nt if he gains a few lbs...

It is doable. I don't know if I totally see it but I see it better in some ways than the 4-3 with our utter lack of de
 
This is what I know, none of the coaches have called me for advise. Have they called any of you? They will run what they run folks lol!
 
Tuco Salamanca said:
Again, look at Daniels and Watts. Both over 300 as high schoolers. 4 of the top 5 dudes on the offer list are 290 or above, 3 of 5 over 300. As you said, we don't have 1 now but all of a sudden we are going to recruit exclusively 300 lb DT?

I don't think I said they will be switching exclusively to an odd front. But I do believe they want to have players to go that way when there is a need.
Click to expand...

Do our DT recruits have the frame to add 30-50 lbs? I would think we would be recruiting guys that are 315+ coming out of HS. Time will tell I guess.
 
how is a 5-2 different than a 3-4? seems they're pretty similar, maybe when you call it a 3-4, your OLB are more athletic?
 
Tuco Salamanca said:
So Wisconsin is the only 3-4 team you looked at?

Alabama doesn't have a DL over 325.
LSU starting NT 310
Click to expand...
Some of our DTs could be at 325 after a couple of cheeseburgers and a malt......some of them have trouble keeping the weight off. Having a nose tackle IMO isn't nearly as big of a concern as having guys that can be big enough and quick enough to play DE in a 3-4 and I think we already have a couple of those guys. They aren't explosive pass rushers but that's where the 3-4 lets you bring that big fast linebacker from different spots to rush the passer.
 
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TruHusker said:
Totally different concepts and personnel.
Click to expand...
I just smile at the hand wringing of people about whether or not our defensive staff can run a 3-4....It ain't rocket science and these guys have some experience at points in their career either as a player or coach with it. Pretty easy switch IMO for a staff as experienced as this one.
 
Tuco Salamanca said:
So Wisconsin is the only 3-4 team you looked at?

Alabama doesn't have a DL over 325.
LSU starting NT 310
Click to expand...

I just used Wisconsin because it was referenced above.

What I do know, is that you need a big NT to run a 3-4. We don't have any.
 
Defense does not mater, its the players/personnel and the DC and position coaches. Teams win with even or odd fronts. Bama runs an odd front, but Clemson and tOSU run even, as does Michigan. Pete Carroll swears by the 4-3 under and Saban loves the two gap 3-4, while Aranda and the Stanford DCs run one gap 3-4s. Denver won the NFL title with a one gap 3-4, but Seattle ran the 4-3 under, same as USC. Jimmys and Joes count more than the Xs and Os!!!
 
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from what I read, the 5-2 Oklahoma basically turned into the 3-4. not sure what kind of 5-2 we ran.
 
We ran the 5-2 in HS and the bone back in the 80s, Texas 5A semis my senior year, with 3 state titles. Most teams run a 3-4 or 4-2-5 in Texas HS ball now days, so basically still even or odd fronts with adjustments to nickel foe spread offenses. Katy HS shut out 10 of 16 teams in 2015 with a 3-4 weak eagle defense and a pro-style I-formation like a Michigan or Wisconsin vs mostly no huddle hurry up teams.
 
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