SSO practice observations

Discussion in 'Husker Board' started by zamzman, Aug 13, 2017.

  1. jlb321

    jlb321 Recruiting Coordinator
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    I agree but at this point for me personally I would take just one special season like that school to the east had in 2015 to prove that it is still possible. Of course I don't want Ferentz type long term results for Nebraska ... but my point is if Riley is a better coach than Ferentz and Nebraska is a better program than that school to the east then it shouldn't be too much to expect similar peaks without such low valleys compared to that school to the east.
     
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  2. inWV

    inWV Recruiting Coordinator
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    So you want to dispense with the 5-6 loss fear, have 3-4 loss as a baseline and zero!-2 loss at least on a leap year schedule (along then with the possibility of a play off spot). I think that's what everyone wants.
    At the end of Frank's tenure, Stevie P declared he wouldn't let NU slide into mediocrity, then hired a coach who promptly lost 7 games, then did it again three season later. That coach did leave some talent lying around, which Pelini traded on for a few seasons. Pelini did not reciprocate so much on the talent thing in the last couple of years when he was obviously heading out the door. The present staff seems to be trying their level best to rectify that. But Pelini still won the "minimum" number of required games (as did Frank sans one season) and appeared in three CCGs in his first five years.
    I'd say the program external stakeholders overall (fanbase, boosters, athletic admin) send pretty clear signals as to the expectations for coaches at NU. And those signals don't include losing seasons. In fact, you can win consistently here, appear in championship games and still get canned.
     
  3. Harry Caray

    Harry Caray Head Coach
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    I'm optimistic about Riley now that he has upgraded the staff and has a QB that fits his system.....but I don't know that I'd say we showed significant progress from year 1 to year 2. We won more games, but look who the wins were against. The best win was a squeaker at home against an 8-4 Minnesota team that ended up firing their coach. The rest of the teams we beat were mostly terrible.

    In Year 1, we beat good MSU and UCLA teams and didn't get blown out by anyone. Several losses should have been wins if not for horrible luck. But in Year 2 we lost by 60 freakin points to OSU and 30 to a mediocre Iowa team.

    Fixing the culture will not be an excuse in Year 3. There are very few Pelini guys left. We need to beat Wisconsin and Iowa this year - we have significantly out-recruited both of them over the past few years.
     
  4. jeans15

    jeans15 Head Coach
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    Yep...which is why I would have handed off. Unless he changed the play. He tried to win the game poor judgement. But that's why you have a defense.

    The play call, imo was just as bad as TA's decision. Hand it off to the RB or a QB draw punt.
     
  5. Tuco Salamanca

    Tuco Salamanca Offensive Coordinator
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    I'm talking 4th down not 3rd down. I have no problem with the 3rd down call, considering it was a run call, other than it didn't work. I don't think DL was trying to win the game there with a pass, I think he was trying to burn as much time as possible so they could run the clock out. TA panicked and threw instead of taking the sack. My opinion.
     
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  6. dinglefritz

    dinglefritz College Football Hall of Fame
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    Unfortunately I don't think TA was very situation football smart at times. He said in a later interview that he was trying to avoid the sack because he thought we were in field goal range. He had no thought of "gee I better just eat this to keep the clock running". We expect our QBs to make decisions that are easy for us in our living room. This is the same QB that on several occasions earlier in his career admitted that at different critical times he didn't even realize what down it was.
     
  7. oldjar07

    oldjar07 Blackshirt
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    I can see that. On a lot of 3rd down passes, there was no sense of urgency to get the 1st.
     
  8. TruHusker

    TruHusker Offensive Coordinator
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    So what are you saying? He really didn't want to get a first down - where do you get this lack of urgency? Tommie was as competitive as they come.
     
  9. HBK4life

    HBK4life Nebraska Football Hall of Fame
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    Jesus tap dancing Christ, we are 3 weeks away from the season opener and we have a 4 page thread arguing about a play call against Illinois 2 years ago??? C'mon guys. Wtf?? Really?? SMDH!!
     
  10. Tuco Salamanca

    Tuco Salamanca Offensive Coordinator
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    Over simplistic. I think the discussion was a bit more macro than just the one play. The play in question covers both play calling and player execution in general, which was the real topic. Just my thoughts.
     
  11. HBK4life

    HBK4life Nebraska Football Hall of Fame
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    [​IMG]
     
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  12. Wasker77

    Wasker77 Sophomore
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    I just got back from the Outerbanks of North Carolina. Every time I walked the beach I was wearing a white Nebraska hat. Twenty years ago when I walked the beach I would find myself engaged in conversations concerning the Huskers. We were in the Big Eight or Big 12 then and not too many fans from Big 12 states were hanging out on the beaches of North Carolina Still I would get into some(times) friendly jabbing and arguments about college football. This year, as what has become the new norm, I had no conversations about the Huskers. None and I talk to a lot of people. I have never been accused of being too shy to talk to people. My Nebraska hat did not elicit one response from people from New Jersey, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Maryland. All having Big 10 schools. Maybe I just picked a week with no college fans. Or maybe we have become so irrelevant that nobody cares about us anymore. I live in Washington State and only visit Nebraska a couple of times a year. It is hard for me to get the pulse of the fans. I made it clear on this board that I was not a strong supporter of Nebraska hiring Coach Riley. After watching him coach Oregon State for years and having friends who are fans of the Beavers I didn't believe he was a great hire. I think Mike has improved recruiting. I think he is a really nice guy and hard not to like. I was cautiously optimistic about the Huskers play last year until the Ohio State game. From that point forward I don't think either side of the ball played very well. Tommy going down pretty much made the Huskers ineffective on offense, but the D took a downturn as well. What is the mood in Lincoln? Has the bitter hatred for Bo made majority of fans believe that anything is an improvement whether the Huskers win or lose? Should I be optimistic or apprehensive?
     
  13. mwulf

    mwulf First Team All-Big Ten
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    I got 2 Go Big Reds when I was in Rome
     
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  14. jlb321

    jlb321 Recruiting Coordinator
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    Those weren't directed toward you

    [​IMG]
     
  15. Riley_the_Crutch

    Riley_the_Crutch College Football Hall of Fame
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    Just mail it in. No way in hell the program can ever recover from Riley purposely running it down.
     
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  16. Pennsyhusker

    Pennsyhusker Head Coach
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    I live in Pennsylvania. I always get comments from people when I wear my Nebraska football hat/shirt.

    Be optimistic.
     
  17. jflores

    jflores Defensive Coordinator
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    I think the problem for the pessimist POV is that they have to define explicitly what it means for "the transition to be over" and for "accountability".

    If its relatively minor stuff, like say switching out Davis and Cav, probably most of the optimist camp would go along with those changes no problem.

    The real problem is, Riley is not likely to be fired before Year 4 is over, for a variety of reasons, and folks who before the start of Year 3, appear to want to wield "no more excuses" as a reason to potentially axe the guy before then because we aren't our traditional Blue Blood power yet.

    That's the *appearance* of what is being said. If the implication is something different, the pessimist camp will have to be specific as to what they mean by accountability and not maintaining some Blue Blood win standard at the start of Year 3. (Edit: The point being, the difference between when Riley might be fired, and yelling about accountability now, comes off as "fit throwing" for not getting one's way circumstances be damned).

    The second problem, is one of "improvement slope". Some folks think if we "get our guy" the wins will come fast and furious regardless of roster conditions, schedule, etc. Some folks are willing to take a longer view of building the program as long as intermediate steps are shown. That's not likely to be a debate settled by any sort of facts, if you believe in the former, the implication then is NU fires any coach who isn't setting the world on fire in Year 3, and goes on to the next guy.

    If you believe in the longer term approach, its important to define the steps appropriately so you don't have Bo P here 8 years kind of deal. (Although, a rather significant point is that if Bo had the personality of Riley, he probably wouldn't have been fired for at least a little while more, recruiting problems, and getting over the hump problems, and all. Which means if Riley becomes a 9/10 win coach here, he'll probably retire after 6-10 years).
     
    137 jflores, Aug 16, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2017
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  18. jflores

    jflores Defensive Coordinator
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    In relation to my last point, I think there is another point to be made, how many times does NU's administration want to be the national punching bag for firing a 9/10 win coach.

    They were bailed out of the shame the 2nd time because BoP's personality was anathema to the national football scene.

    That's an advantage we won't have with Riley, if he ends up being a solid contender, but not elite program.
     
  19. jflores

    jflores Defensive Coordinator
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    This is just my opinion, but I think most folks who live in the State support Riley. Every poll that's been done shows he has somewhere in the ball park of 3/4 of the fan base support.

    However that doesn't account for philosophical differences between folks, the "fire a coach every 3 years if he doesn't get it done" vice "longer term view", the whole "I don't care who the coach is as long as he runs the ball" vs "let's just see what the staff does in their system", and those type of things.

    Riley will have a pretty short stay if he bounces between 5-9 wins. I can pretty much sense that vibe.

    I think he'll be here until he decides not to be, if he can perform at Bo's win level *and* provide some modicum of hope for the future (continued good recruiting, title game appearances). Many a coach has made a career out of recruiting well, but not having an elite team.

    I don't personally meet a ton of folks in coffee shops or on the street that think if NU wanted to go out and spend $15 million a year on a coach, there's a couple of choices to go get that would unseat Meyer and Saban. But that's obviously a small sample size. I think many folks have Frost in the back of their mind, and kind of look at the intersection of Riley's age and Frost's youthful career with a glimmer of excitement (whatever Riley's success is).
     
  20. HuskerO

    HuskerO Recruiting Coordinator
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    Bo would not have been fired if he weren't such a pompous jerk.
     
  21. inWV

    inWV Recruiting Coordinator
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    Really consider the bolded thought. The firing of Frank, regardless of whether you were down with it or not, did not go over well in the broader coaching community. But for the bounce or two of the ball, he had a NC team in 99 (McBride's last year) and played in a title game two years later. Bo was a hot-headed a-hole with serious interpersonal problems, but he also took teams to three CCGs.
     
  22. Tuco Salamanca

    Tuco Salamanca Offensive Coordinator
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    Do you all agree that even with the Pelini "free pass", firing another coach with a winning record would make this job a coach killer. I know it isn't the same level, but Solich went on to have decent success at Ohio and Pelini played in a FCS title game. Callahan was the outlier but he is still considered 1 of the top 1 or 2 offensive line coaches in the NFL. Assuming it hasn't already happened, the expectations at Nebraska are going to be a negative when hiring a head coach. Firing Riley after a 7-5 or 8-4 season, in my opinion, would make this job undesirable to big time coaches AND young up and comers.

    Look at Texas, Mack set the bar, but couldn't sustain the level at the end. Then Strong came in and failed to meet the minimum. If he isn't successful at USF what is his next step? Back to a coordinator?? Herman in the same boat, if he can't win at Texas, does he have to go back to a small school or OC?

    What if Frost comes in at Nebraska and doesn't win? There seems to be some sort of aura around him that is a can't miss and no risk hire for Nebraska.
     
  23. Riley_the_Crutch

    Riley_the_Crutch College Football Hall of Fame
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    Frost will never lose a game here when he becomes coach. Nobody will ever have to deal with any questions about his performance. This has already been decided, try and keep up.
     
  24. JohnRossEwing

    JohnRossEwing Offensive Coordinator
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    You know that is probably true.
     
  25. HBK4life

    HBK4life Nebraska Football Hall of Fame
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    His lack of recruiting would have got him fired sooner or later. That..and being a massive tool.
     
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  26. jlb321

    jlb321 Recruiting Coordinator
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    those are fair points .. from my point of view only

    - I don't understand why expecting 9 wins is considered pessimistic, it seems like those hedging on expecting 9 wins would be more accurately described as pessimistic - both of terms of player talent and the coaching ability of this staff

    - having an expectation of 9 wins doesn't equate to wanting Riley fired or even wanting his seat to get warm if he wins less than 9- for me, if we win less than 9 I think it is fair to continue to have a "wait and see" approach on this hire .. doesn't mean it was a bad hire it just hasn't become obvious to me that it was a good hire - perhaps it will become obvious in years 4-6. I think results in year 3 is fair data point to begin to evaluate any coaching hire - for me it is a single point and given such am hesitant to make any firm conclusions until more data points (seasons) are available for analysis.

    has anyone suggested that if Riley goes 7-5 next year it means he should be fired as some have claimed??

    - if we struggle this year I think it is fair to place some accountability on Riley based on some questionable decisions in years 1-2 - having to replace a number of coaches, etc ... doesn't mean he hasn't corrected any deficiencies - just that progress may be delayed as a result

    - I personally do not expect blue blood results in year 3 - certainly 9 wins which may not even equate to being ranked can't be characterized as blue blood results. My point is that if you are a blue blood, a very average result of 9 wins shouldn't represent excessive expectations in year 3. Now perhaps we aren't a blue blood program but I'm pretty sure that there is at least one thread per year where everyone gets up in arms when an opposing fan claims we aren't.

    - at Nebraska in year 3 it is noteworthy to me that home games against unranked NW and Iowa and an away game against Minnesota with a first year head coach without prior power 5 experience are described as toss-ups. It also gives me pause when statements indicating that as long as the team gives great effort some will be pleased.


    for me this season's results will determine which of the following categories the program currently falls into

    1. way behind schedule - 6 wins or less
    2. behind schedule - 7-8 wins
    3. on schedule - 9 wins
    4. ahead of schedule - div title or 10 wins
    5. way ahead of schedule - conf title - 11+ wins

    others surely will have different views on what constitutes "on schedule"


    GBR
     
    146 jlb321, Aug 16, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2017
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  27. StrongArm517

    StrongArm517 All-American
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    you hit a dead beat week, I got into a Husker conversation in Dubai.
     
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  28. Tuco Salamanca

    Tuco Salamanca Offensive Coordinator
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    Expecting 9 wins doesn't make anyone a pessimist.
    Those are expectations.

    It's people who say if you don't get to 9 wins it's a failure or

    say 9 wins is the minimum but then post on thread after thread that they "expect" Nebraska to win 6 or 7 in 2017.

    And most importantly refuse to look at anything "unknown" as a positive.

    As far as where we are in the pecking order, Nebraska is unranked, why would games against other unranked teams not be considered toss ups? Especially when those games have been close since 2012?

    And as I said before, blue blood is a historical reference, not necessarily a current state of the program reference. I am of the opinion that Nebraska is not currently a "blue blood". We have great tradition and history but in our current state is no different than Iowa, Minnesota and Northwestern. We don't have to like it and we don't have to want it to continue, but not wanting it to be true doesn't make it not true.
     
  29. jlb321

    jlb321 Recruiting Coordinator
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    I am looking at the unknowns and believe this coaching staff is good enough to get to 9 wins - maybe they will prove me wrong - it seems to me that those saying 9 wins is too steep are looking at the unknowns more pessimistically.

    As far as the pecking order goes - the current state appears to be the same state as it was in 2014 - I would hope we have made some progress now in year 3 and hope to see some separation - it is a testament to the fan base that they are willing to travel from near and far, spend 1000s of dollars and fill a 90k+ stadium for every game to watch what amounts to the equivalent of a Minnesota or Iowa. Maybe Iowa and Kirk Ferentz are now our Oklahoma and Barry Switzer that the program has to struggle to keep up with for years and years before getting over the hump
     
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  30. Tuco Salamanca

    Tuco Salamanca Offensive Coordinator
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    Or maybe college football is different than it was in 1975.

    Power 5 programs, especially those in the B1G and SEC are cash rich. Northwestern can afford to pay Fitz $3 mil a year and keep him, Minnesota can pay to hire coach RTB. That wasn't the case in the 70's or 80's.
     
  31. jlb321

    jlb321 Recruiting Coordinator
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    And none of those circumstances are ever going to change - perhaps we should just resign ourselves to the fact that we were once Alabama but those times are long gone and look forward to the annual hard fought games against the Minnesotas, Iowas, and NWs of the world. We can start to make trophy cases for the occasional broken chair and hero trophies rather than conf championship trophies. Again kudos to those willing to give up entire Saturday's to see that type of product in person. Despite the rhetoric I think the fan base, while not happy with irrelevancy, is accepting of it as evidence by the packed stadium every week. The program really doesn't have to become relevant just do enough where there is just enough hope that it might one day happen and the dollars will keep flowing.
     
    151 jlb321, Aug 16, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2017
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  32. Tuco Salamanca

    Tuco Salamanca Offensive Coordinator
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    Again, the beauty of it is that you can make your own expectations and go from there.

    We all have our own thresholds for what keeps us spending the money or coming to games. Some have no relation at all to the success of the football team.
     
  33. inWV

    inWV Recruiting Coordinator
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    Going back to the news reports on his hiring, Riley decided he was up for one last adventure and Eichhorst reeled him in.
    People will argue the other side of this, but in TOs first six years, his league record in an 8 team league was 4-2-1, 5-2, 6-1, 4-3, 5-2 and 6-1, with 9-2-1 to start and three 3 loss seasons in the other five. There was talk of letting him go before the Astro-Bluebonnet bowl win. Hell, there was talk of canning Devaney. This fan base has had oversized expectations since like forever and two great coaches were able to meet those expectations. It's the same or worse with TX and they have less to show for it.
    Short of a dumpster fire where it is clear Riley has lost control of the program, it would be idiotic to can him in the near term. I would think he should get somewhere in the range of our most recent ill-tempered HC in terms of seasons.
     
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  34. jlb321

    jlb321 Recruiting Coordinator
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    Completely agree. That is why I say the fan base is far more accepting of irrelevancy than they like to admit. I think the administration knows this as well. They may have to listen to some grumbling and replace a coach now and again to keep a flicker of hope alive but despite occasional grumbling the dollars keep flowing. And as you said, with the conference money, there really isn't that much financial incentive to be successful on the field as long as some other schools in the conference are competing at a high level.
     
  35. inWV

    inWV Recruiting Coordinator
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    Back to the discussion of comparing the Big 8 last quarter century and the 2017 B1G. In the last quarter century of play in the Big 8, there were only four years in which a team other than NU or OU tied or won the title outright. In the last quarter centure of B1G play, 9 teams have tied or won the title outright, with OSU(10), UM(7), UW(5) and PSU(4) leading the list. NW has tied or won the title 3 times in the last 25 years. None of the four recent adds have yet to claim a title. The B1G is a much more balanced league that the old Big 8.
    Now add the reality of more resources coming into these programs and expect even stouter competition. That is the reality.
     
  36. timnsun

    timnsun Offensive Coordinator
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    I would contend that fans know the product on the field isn't and hasn't been championship material for quite awhile... but supporting the team is something Nebraska fans are passionate about, even when things aren't the same as under Osborne or Devaney. One of the things that propels fans, in my opinion, is the hope/expectation that we will be great again.

    Accepting irrelevance, as you like to put it, actually doesn't fit what I believe is going on. If fans had accepted irrelevance already the stadium wouldn't be full week after week and fans wouldn't travel.

    Fans are expecting to emerge from the place we have been in, and Riley has given more reasons for an improving team than reasons for more irrelevance.

    If we were truly accepting of irrelevance the fans wouldn't care and wouldn't show up in my opinion.

    Edit: in other words, I think fans have been tolerating irrelevance, but aren't accepting of it. If it continues, it will show in diminished fan support.
     
    156 timnsun, Aug 16, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2017
  37. inWV

    inWV Recruiting Coordinator
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    Hope is a one of the powerful emotions.
     
  38. jeans15

    jeans15 Head Coach
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    "Rebellions are built on hope. "
     
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  39. SnohomishRed

    SnohomishRed Offensive Coordinator
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    If we were truly accepting of irrelevance the fans wouldn't care and wouldn't show up in my opinion.

    I have always thought this was a two edged sword - NU fans show up no matter the product on the field - however this comes with pressure. These fans want a good product and I think this program has been focused too much on short term rather than the long term. Can a coach survive here with losing seasons - I say no he can not even if the program is being built correctly and it will pay dividends in years to come the pressure to win now is always there due to fan support.

    On the other hand if fans did not show up there is less pressure in the immediate future and more thought to long term success.

    Sometimes I feel the NU fan support hurts this program especially when things are not going well
     
  40. yort2000

    yort2000 Junior
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    Heck, I think these coaches could get this team to 10 wins. However, I am under the assumption that that would be one great coaching job and Riley would probably be one of the top candidates for B1G coach of the year and not the below assumption that you stated earlier in this thread. Nebraska is only returning 26% of last year's offensive production (3rd lowest in FBS) and the top 3 tacklers are gone as well.

     

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