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Recruiting - the Williams effect

DudznSudz

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Feb 4, 2016
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Just got done reading:

https://www.landof10.com/nebraska/d...new-cornerbacks-coach-balance-scales-nebraska

I think this article is spot on; Williams, along with the other Williams, and our best position coaches, need to build top 15 recruiting classes for a few years straight before we are back to being a dominant program. If you think about it, that's how Osborne and Devaney were so good: they had a continuous, 30+ year regime that was able to recruit and develop like a machine, non-stop.

That's what we need. Consistent recruiting. Well, it's one of a few things we need (we have the facilities, strength and conditioning, and brand appeal), another would be great coaching. Jury is out on that, though despite our problems, I really like what I'm seeing.
 
And if we go to a territorial based recruiting model instead of position based the Williams' could help at multiple positions. But as of now, we are talking about DBs and WRs while those are needed, we could use depth and competition at multiple position groups.
 
And if we go to a territorial based recruiting model instead of position based the Williams' could help at multiple positions. But as of now, we are talking about DBs and WRs while those are needed, we could use depth and competition at multiple position groups.

Totally true. I think these guys will help us get great buzz around the program and some really good skill players over the next couple of years. Hell, our receiver class is already better than usual because of it. BUT, and I just posted this on my other thread, while I like what the Williams's are going to be doing, I want to see Bray, Cavanaugh, and Parella start bringing some nasty LB's and linemen into the fold, and FAST. I like that we got Roberts, as he looks to be a real stud, but we need to be landing guys like that on the regular.
 
And if we go to a territorial based recruiting model instead of position based the Williams' could help at multiple positions. But as of now, we are talking about DBs and WRs while those are needed, we could use depth and competition at multiple position groups.

Williams has already offered at least one DE for 2019.
 
I'm glad Riley fired Read and Davis needs to be fired too. He doesn't pull his weight in recruiting.
 
Williams has already offered at least one DE for 2019.

There are exceptions. But the overall philosophy is position based and not territorial based. That's why we have people complaining about Davis not pulling his weight etc.

I believe there needs to be some sort of hybrid. Why aren't we legitimately in on more linemen from California. It seems to be only skill position players.
 
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I'm glad Riley fired Read and Davis needs to be fired too. He doesn't pull his weight in recruiting.
However one would look at this; N and T O and I assume B D helped develop - Their own recruiting board and ratings system; with top ranked targets that excluding as many as half the 5* players going by statements in the past. And of course information sources have developed tremendously; but a hybrid system could be our best bet..Certainly projecting the players development is key. HCMR, said early and often, the teams with the best lines win most often, they understand. N is a leader and often the leader in systems development for player development. It must come from there again. ... As far as coaches, we are past the bring the friends stage. The A D addressed this in the hiring process,imo. We have seen action; imo if you aren't perceived to be achieving some benchmark in overall assistant performance ( say top 20% ), you are evaluated for seeing the door. The running backs coach has some studs and they improve; so if his strength is special as a coach and OK in recruiting ( but love this group ) - he gets my stay vote, as others can assist. .... I most worry if Coach Cav has " hardening of the attitudes '. I am a big JP fan; he will become a real draw. I haven't seen any legit info to lead me to believe any differently.
 
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Just got done reading:

https://www.landof10.com/nebraska/d...new-cornerbacks-coach-balance-scales-nebraska

I think this article is spot on; Williams, along with the other Williams, and our best position coaches, need to build top 15 recruiting classes for a few years straight before we are back to being a dominant program. If you think about it, that's how Osborne and Devaney were so good: they had a continuous, 30+ year regime that was able to recruit and develop like a machine, non-stop.

That's what we need. Consistent recruiting. Well, it's one of a few things we need (we have the facilities, strength and conditioning, and brand appeal), another would be great coaching. Jury is out on that, though despite our problems, I really like what I'm seeing.

Just for fun I looked up the recruiter ranking for last year from 247 & Rivals. DW is not on either. Where is all the hype coming from?
 
Just for fun I looked up the recruiter ranking for last year from 247 & Rivals. DW is not on either. Where is all the hype coming from?
Sport Illustrated named him one of the Top 10 recruiters in the nation in 2015.
 
Just for fun I looked up the recruiter ranking for last year from 247 & Rivals. DW is not on either. Where is all the hype coming from?
Agree. Seems like a great guy, but guys like that also don't realize how hard it is to recruit here. There's so much parity the kids don't care vs guys like Williams thinks. I give him 3 years and he'll head south.
 
Agree. Seems like a great guy, but guys like that also don't realize how hard it is to recruit here. There's so much parity the kids don't care vs guys like Williams thinks. I give him 3 years and he'll head south.

Callahan and his guys didn't do too bad recruiting here. If your program is good at recruiting then you can recruit to Nebraska.
 
Agree. Seems like a great guy, but guys like that also don't realize how hard it is to recruit here. There's so much parity the kids don't care vs guys like Williams thinks. I give him 3 years and he'll head south.
I think he's recruited at it tougher places than Nebraska. I would guess he's pretty pumped to recruit to a blue blood program with our resources.
 
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I think he's recruited at it tougher places than Nebraska. I would guess he's pretty pumped to recruit to a blue blood program with our resources.

I read stuff like this and wonder how the comparison is made between our "resources" and other schools. Do you have some data to prove this point?

Although you didn't state it, the same can be said when comparing facilities. Husker fans think ours are some of the best in the nation when most of us have never even seen all of our own facilities much less other football powers. It's all perception and creates an unreasonable expectations in our minds - "with such top facilities and excellent resources we should have a top ten class every year.'
 
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I read stuff like this and wonder how the comparison is made between our "resources" and other schools. Do you have some data to prove this point?

Although you didn't state it, the same can be said when comparing facilities. Husker fans think ours are some of the best in the nation when most of us have never even seen all of our own facilities much less other football powers. It's all perception and creates an unreasonable expectIon in our minds - "with such top facilities and excellent resources we should have a top ten class every year.'

NU was No. 5 in recruiting expenditures for 2013-2014 according to this article. I'm sure one could find more recent numbers if they spent some time looking.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...-teams-spend-the-most-and-least-on-recruiting
 
With Nebraska's remoteness when it comes to talent, we need to be number 1 by a lot.

I won't argue that point, but the poster I quoted was wondering about actual numbers. Was a little curious myself, so I linked the first ones I found.
 
I'm concerned with coach Twitter, he has a lot riding on the 2017 class.

He signed 2 guys in his first cycle [1 left before games started], DUI led to suspension, position group played way under expectations in 2016, twitter war with opposing coach, & he's sitting with one commit in McQuitty, with up to five spots available. Spare me KJJ, he's at Nebraska because of Mike Riley. Lewis, Calvin & Holmes are very important to the program right now.

There's not one immediate impact guy, yet, from a position group that's as wide open as any other we have in 2017. Difficult to say this but Lewis is darn near a must get, he's a position changing recruit.

I'm hoping he closes strong, it's needed on many levels [team, program, coach].
 
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Callahan and his guys didn't do too bad recruiting here. If your program is good at recruiting then you can recruit to Nebraska.

Callahan basically recruited the same line as Riley is. Get to the league with me. Lots of opportunity with offensive transition.

The key difference at this point in time seems to be Riley doesn't have a John Blake on staff who seems to be continually under investigation for his recruiting activities.
 
Sport Illustrated named him one of the Top 10 recruiters in the nation in 2015.

That's nice but wouldn't Rivals & 247 at least have him on their list? I would tend to trust their opinions on this matter more than SI.

I'm hopeful he'll do well but I don't think the recruiting hype is warranted yet.
 
That's nice but wouldn't Rivals & 247 at least have him on their list? I would tend to trust their opinions on this matter more than SI.

I'm hopeful he'll do well but I don't think the recruiting hype is warranted yet.

He's earned his reputation, its warranted and backed up by the results of his career. Whether he can continue to do that here is another question (I think he'll do rather well). Convincing a bunch of LA kids to take a 20 minute plane ride to Zona is quite a different problem set than recruiting to Lincoln.

Its ok though, people think Ed O is god and Ed O has made a living recruiting studs to coastal schools for about as long as DW has been alive.
 
He's earned his reputation, its warranted and backed up by the results of his career. Whether he can continue to do that here is another question (I think he'll do rather well). Convincing a bunch of LA kids to take a 20 minute plane ride to Zona is quite a different problem set than recruiting to Lincoln.

Its ok though, people think Ed O is god and Ed O has made a living recruiting studs to coastal schools for about as long as DW has been alive.

Do you know where I can find these recruiting results?
 
I'm concerned with coach Twitter, he has a lot riding on the 2017 class.

He signed 2 guys in his first cycle [1 left before games started], DUI led to suspension, position group played way under expectations in 2016, twitter war with opposing coach, & he's sitting with one commit in McQuitty, with up to five spots available. Spare me KJJ, he's at Nebraska because of Mike Riley. Lewis, Calvin & Holmes are very important to the program right now.

There's not one immediate impact guy, yet, from a position group that's as wide open as any other we have in 2017. Difficult to say this but Lewis is darn near a must get, he's a position changing recruit.

I'm hoping he closes strong, it's needed on many levels [team, program, coach].

Understand that the kids he is recruiting are some of the top WR in the country. He is trying to recruit some of the best WR in the country to a school with a football program that has just been average the past 10 years or so. He is also trying to get some of the top WR in the country to leave the palm trees and sunny weather of California and come to some school in the middle of America surrounded by cornfields and snow. The fact that he has these top flight kids attention and has us in the running 1 month from signing day is fantastic. We could have just probably recruited a bunch of 2* talent from St Joe or Omaha and been done with it but to compete for national titles and make this program relevant again on the national scene these kids he is after are the kids we need to get there.

I wouldn't be worried about Coach Williams. Fact is, if he were recruiting for LSU, or USC, or even UCLA he'd probably be in the running for recruiter of the year. We will be ok in the end...getting back to relevancy as a football program will go faster if we chase the big kids, it wont happen signing walk-ons and average talent like a former coach was notorious for doing. We are going to miss on plenty of talent just due too where we are located and the fact we are just average at best as a program right now.
 
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Do you know where I can find these recruiting results?

He had Zona either in or banging on the door of Top 15 until about 2 weeks ago. I believe he was responsible for 9 of their recruits, and the best 9, at that.
 
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I'm concerned with coach Twitter, he has a lot riding on the 2017 class.

He signed 2 guys in his first cycle [1 left before games started], DUI led to suspension, position group played way under expectations in 2016, twitter war with opposing coach, & he's sitting with one commit in McQuitty, with up to five spots available. Spare me KJJ, he's at Nebraska because of Mike Riley. Lewis, Calvin & Holmes are very important to the program right now.

There's not one immediate impact guy, yet, from a position group that's as wide open as any other we have in 2017. Difficult to say this but Lewis is darn near a must get, he's a position changing recruit.

I'm hoping he closes strong, it's needed on many levels [team, program, coach].

Honestly, I think this post is freaking crazy.

His first class was perfectly fine. One guy didn't work out from a personality perspective; sometimes that is hard to evaluate from a distance when recruiting.

The DUI mistake was on him but I don't see any direct evidence that it had an affect on anything - coaching or recruiting.

Way under expectations? Westy, Moore, and BR all played with injuries the entire year. DPE has never established himself as a WR. Not even before his strong of injuries. And Tommy (cough, cough, completion percentage) Armstrong was our QB.

He had nothing to do with the start of that Twitter feud and continuously downplayed it on twitter when Zone6 would talk shit to him. He also specifically asked Nebraska fans to stop tweeting about it as well. Not to mention I think it's a good thing a position coach at the best program is the conference is taking note that a rivals position coach is recruiting/coaching at a high level. He poked Williams because he is intimidated by him.

He has two extremely strong commits, and yes, he deserves some of the credit for KJJr as well. KJSr publicly talked about Wideouts throughout the entire recruiting process. I think it's very hard to make the argument you are making. It was a dual-coach effort on him. Yes, we need to finish with a couple solid commits, but if we don't land a 5* (that nobody has given us a chance to land outside of our own bubble), I'm not going to lose my shit over it. The kid has been talked about as a USC lock for about two years and you label him a must get? Damn man. Those are expectations that a couple coaches in the history of our program have been able to reach. If he pulls it off he's one of the best in the country. Lest we forget that players like Lewis are traditionally being offered cash money to sign; not an easy thing to combat with phone calls and DMs.

One final thing: I feel extremely confident that if we would have fired Williams after the DUI he would have been picked up by a Saban/Meyer type immediately, imaged would have been worked on, and he would be landing studs for them in no time. Just like Lane Kiffin. Williams is a serious talent in terms of both recruiting and coaching. I don't see any way of getting around that.
 
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Agree. Seems like a great guy, but guys like that also don't realize how hard it is to recruit here. There's so much parity the kids don't care vs guys like Williams thinks. I give him 3 years and he'll head south.

It's not hard recruiting at a blue blood. Get out with that nonsense
 
It's not hard recruiting at a blue blood. Get out with that nonsense
How have the past 17 years worked out? It's Blue Blood right?? We are also in rare territory. No BB program has gone 17 years without a conf championship. Let that sync in. These kids are 17 or 18. Parity exists and national television hasn't been our friend. It's not as easy as you make it out to be.
 
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How have the past 17 years worked out? It's Blue Blood right?? We are also in rare territory. No BB program has gone 17 years without a conf championship. Let that sync in. These kids are 17 or 18. Parity exists and national television hasn't been our friend. It's not as easy as you make it out to be.
Not true Norte Dame has never won a Conference Championship . But in all seriousness almost every blue blood program has gone through a worse stretch than we are on right now. Remember how bad OU was before Stoops got there or how bad Alabama was before Saban?
 
How have the past 17 years worked out? It's Blue Blood right?? We are also in rare territory. No BB program has gone 17 years without a conf championship. Let that sync in. These kids are 17 or 18. Parity exists and national television hasn't been our friend. It's not as easy as you make it out to be.
It depended on who was doing the recruiting, didn't it? When Callahan was recruiting, we brought in some really good players. When Bo was recruiting, even halfway, he still brought in some good players (emphasis on the word some). Riley will do fine with recruiting. And if he doesn't, he'll be fired, and you can celebrate.
 
Understand that the kids he is recruiting are some of the top WR in the country. He is trying to recruit some of the best WR in the country to a school with a football program that has just been average the past 10 years or so. He is also trying to get some of the top WR in the country to leave the palm trees and sunny weather of California and come to some school in the middle of America surrounded by cornfields and snow. The fact that he has these top flight kids attention and has us in the running 1 month from signing day is fantastic. We could have just probably recruited a bunch of 2* talent from St Joe or Omaha and been done with it but to compete for national titles and make this program relevant again on the national scene these kids he is after are the kids we need to get there.

I wouldn't be worried about Coach Williams. Fact is, if he were recruiting for LSU, or USC, or even UCLA he'd probably be in the running for recruiter of the year. We will be ok in the end...getting back to relevancy as a football program will go faster if we chase the big kids, it wont happen signing walk-ons and average talent like a former coach was notorious for doing. We are going to miss on plenty of talent just due too where we are located and the fact we are just average at best as a program right now.

I more than understand the recruits status, that's why I said he has a lot riding on this class. We've recruited top receivers before who were recruited by the big boys. The fact is, he's at Nebraska & not the other schools. When you're a top recruiter, you're a top recruiter not because of the school you're recruiting to but instead, you can recruit to any school. Again, he has a lot riding on the 2017 class.

Rich Fisher recruited and got the commitment from Jordan Westerkamp & Stanley Morgan [I'll keep out Monte Harrison], two guys that were highly ranked and highly coveted. He also found under the radar DPE, a special all-around talent.

With all that said, you touched on one aspect of my post, which is the one I'm least worried with as he has big fish swimming in his lake. Again, he has a lot riding on the 2017 class.
 
Not true Norte Dame has never won a Conference Championship . But in all seriousness almost every blue blood program has gone through a worse stretch than we are on right now. Remember how bad OU was before Stoops got there or how bad Alabama was before Saban?
OU went 12 years. Bama I think was 11. My point is parity makes it harder than ever before. Not saying it can't happen, but I think it's a Harbaugh type. I really like Mike R but I think it's harder than most realize. Both of those places have recruit hotbeds closer to them.
 
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Honestly, I think this post is freaking crazy.

His first class was perfectly fine. One guy didn't work out from a personality perspective; sometimes that is hard to evaluate from a distance when recruiting.

The DUI mistake was on him but I don't see any direct evidence that it had an affect on anything - coaching or recruiting.

Way under expectations? Westy, Moore, and BR all played with injuries the entire year. DPE has never established himself as a WR. Not even before his strong of injuries. And Tommy (cough, cough, completion percentage) Armstrong was our QB.

He had nothing to do with the start of that Twitter feud and continuously downplayed it on twitter when Zone6 would talk shit to him. He also specifically asked Nebraska fans to stop tweeting about it as well. Not to mention I think it's a good thing a position coach at the best program is the conference is taking note that a rivals position coach is recruiting/coaching at a high level. He poked Williams because he is intimidated by him.

He has two extremely strong commits, and yes, he deserves some of the credit for KJJr as well. KJSr publicly talked about Wideouts throughout the entire recruiting process. I think it's very hard to make the argument you are making. It was a dual-coach effort on him. Yes, we need to finish with a couple solid commits, but if we don't land a 5* (that nobody has given us a chance to land outside of our own bubble), I'm not going to lose my shit over it. The kid has been talked about as a USC lock for about two years and you label him a must get? Damn man. Those are expectations that a couple coaches in the history of our program have been able to reach. If he pulls it off he's one of the best in the country. Lest we forget that players like Lewis are traditionally being offered cash money to sign; not an easy thing to combat with phone calls and DMs.

One final thing: I feel extremely confident that if we would have fired Williams after the DUI he would have been picked up by a Saban/Meyer type immediately, imaged would have been worked on, and he would be landing studs for them in no time. Just like Lane Kiffin. Williams is a serious talent in terms of both recruiting and coaching. I don't see any way of getting around that.

Of course that's your thought, I know where you get the group think from.

His first [partial] class is Lavan Alston, someone that is heavily rumored to not be here in 2017. I hope that's not the case, but there's enough talk about it. His second class is Spielman and Grim, one redshirted and one left. His third class, which he has a lot riding on, is TBD. As I said, I hope he hits it out of the park.

If you truly believe a coach that missed 2 weeks of fall camp, and 4 games during the season isn't direct evidence that his DUI didn't impact his group/team/program then we can stop the responses now. It most definitely had an impact; we lost 1 player [Grim] during that time frame and we had a recruit [Calvin] publicly speak about it. Not only that, he was set to announce his commitment shortly after that but instead, pushed it back to January 7. Keith may have overcome it with Calvin, which I believe he will commit to us in a couple weeks, but it did put us at risk.

Keith has publicly said to blame him for the performances, not the players. That is a coach that knows his position group has under performed. Injuries, bad QB play, people can make all the excuses they want the fact remains, they under performed.

KJJ is here because of Mike Riley, not Keith Williams. Mike could be coaching at Nebraska, Keith at Alabama and KJJ is coming to Lincoln, not Tuscaloosa. Mike is the only reason we had a shot at KJJ, not the other way around. How you even deny this is beyond me, but expected.

Nowhere did I say he should've been fired. I like Keith, but it doesn't mean there isn't concern with him. There's a lot riding on that first Wednesday in February. For me, that'll answer a lot of questions that I have.
 
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Not true Norte Dame has never won a Conference Championship . But in all seriousness almost every blue blood program has gone through a worse stretch than we are on right now. Remember how bad OU was before Stoops got there or how bad Alabama was before Saban?

And how was their recruiting during those stretches?
 
He has two extremely strong commits, and yes, he deserves some of the credit for KJJr as well. KJSr publicly talked about Wideouts throughout the entire recruiting process. I think it's very hard to make the argument you are making. It was a dual-coach effort on him.

Just stop man.

LINCOLN — Keyshawn Johnson didn’t hesitate when asked, nor did he amble through his response. There’s one clear reason why he’s introduced his son and several other highly regarded prospects to Nebraska.

That reason is Mike Riley.

“The only reason,” Johnson said. “Otherwise, I probably would have never seen Nebraska in my life.”

http://www.omaha.com/huskers/days-w...cle_7afb8f99-74f0-5c46-80b5-85ad28179dca.html
 
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Just stop man.

LINCOLN — Keyshawn Johnson didn’t hesitate when asked, nor did he amble through his response. There’s one clear reason why he’s introduced his son and several other highly regarded prospects to Nebraska.

That reason is Mike Riley.

“The only reason,” Johnson said. “Otherwise, I probably would have never seen Nebraska in my life.”

http://www.omaha.com/huskers/days-w...cle_7afb8f99-74f0-5c46-80b5-85ad28179dca.html

I've no doubt that was the primary introduction point; however, that's NOT when he committed to play for Nebraska. That came after a very significant courting period that included significant relationship building with Williams. To ignore the subsequent commentary from all parties that specifically mentioned Williams is to ignore parts of the historical record. Would he have come to Nebraska without Williams? Who know. But to suggest Williams had no part in his decision simply false.
 
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