Ohhhhh Wisconsin....REALLY??

[newAD]

I sent the link to this stupid story to my sister. She had absolutely no clue this was coming.

My nephew's High School team (in Wisc) is playing it's biggest rival this weekend. Parents are pissed. The students at my nephew's school were made aware of these and additional rules today (not sure iF these aresults state or school rules as a result of this asinine decision). These include things such as no more "theme" nights for games. Like no "Hawaiian Night" (which I guess they've done before, grass skirts and stuff), because it might "offend someone." They can have a "blackout" or something similar, but it must be "school colors."

My sister expects the refs this weekend to be too busy calling T's to ref the game.

Personally I hope there is chaos at games. I hope the students of the opposing schools band together and push the limits. I hope they stage walkouts during games. Finally, I don't know who those on this board ultimately report to, but I hope they are fired, removed, forced to resign, etc, because this whole thing is stupid.

 

[newAD]

You do realize it's a blue state and where unions began?
Nebraska and Indiana are the only red states in the Big 10. Quite a different story in the Big 12

They also elected Scott Walker governor.

 

[newAD]

It appears there might be some. Backpedaling now.

http://m.wisn.com/high-school-sports/wiaa-rules-trying-to-curb-student-chants-like-airball/37389932

 

[sparky62]

It appears there might be some. Backpedaling now.

http://m.wisn.com/high-school-sports/wiaa-rules-trying-to-curb-student-chants-like-airball/37389932

I would hope so.

 

[tro80]

So riddle me this, Coach. In sports, the achievement of one team is a direct result of the other team's failure in its objective to stop the opponent from that achievement. Each cheer from fans is both for their team's success and the other team's failure. So how is chanting airball any different than the huge roar that goes up from the opposing fans when the kid airballed? You don't think the kid knows that huge, deafening roar was a direct result of him airballing? You don't think that kid realized that he just airballed in front of God, his country and dozens or hundreds of friends and foes? How the hell is the other team's students chanting airball making that worse? Really? I guess its time we outlaw cheering altogether so no one gets his feelings hurt that the other team's fans are cheering because he missed a shot or committed a foul, or failed to stop the opponent from scoring.

 

[coach00036]

How the hell is the other team's students chanting airball making that worse?

Is it a good display of sportsmanship? If not, then why do it?

 

[tro80]

you didn't answer my question. How is it any more unsportsmanlike than cheering when the opponent failed? Perhaps we should outlaw cheering also, because hearing the fans cheer for the other team can be demeaning.

And to answer your question, I guess we agree to disagree on whether such chants are really unsportsmanlike or a part of the game experience - as long as they are related to the game and not personal attacks or grounded in race, gender, vulgarity, etc. Otherwise, those chants have been a widely accepted part of the game. Since the first high school games occurred, razzing the other team and its fans has been part of the fun of the game for the highschool kids. I guess I don't see that as unsportsmanlike. It is part of the sport.

Granted, I would be uncomfortable if parents were chanting airball at a 6th grade YMCA game. And I would hope kids and adults alike would recognize there are probably some other times when such chants are not really appropriate (such as the other team is being beat by 40 points or a kid with apparent handicap (or even a team that is just plain awful). But the vast majority of people, including high school kids, have the sense to figure out when it might not be most appropriate - and most faculty at games are pretty quick to shut the kids down if they feel it was one of those situations. However, for the most part, these are high school kids who hear much worse than that everyday from their buddies. I know, because I have some of my own and have been in education and coaching. Sure it stings when you are on the other side of it, either as a player or a fan. But, so does losing. Sports are a great teacher of tools needed to succeed in life, and one of the most important tools I believe kids can learn from sports is dealing with that. Sure, sometimes it goes to far, but this is just another example of blowing up the house to kill the mouse.

 

[newAD]

Protests have started. Hope they continue.

http://www.si.com/extra-mustard/2016/01/13/wisconsin-high-school-basketball-wiaa-students-protest

 

[coach00036]

you didn't answer my question. How is it any more unsportsmanlike than cheering when the opponent failed?

You're right, I didn't answer your question.Sorry about that. I would say this: the sole intent of chanting "airball" or "fundamentals" is to embarrass the person who did it. Big difference between that and cheering an opponents failures. I haven't heard many chants about shots that clang off the rim. You mentioned in your first post that the kid clearly knows he shot an airball, and probably feels pretty bad about doing it. Why, then, should we feel the need to pile on and mock? To me, that doesn't have a place in an educational setting. High school sports are just that, an extension of the classroom. I don't let my students mock each other when they make mistakes in class, why would I want them doing it in the gym? Again, I would ask, why do it? What benefit does it provide?

The argument that it's always been done that way doesn't hold much weight with me. Just because it's always been done that way doesn't mean that's how it should be. I agree with you that sport teaches us many lessons, in fact it's one of the main reasons I got into teaching and coaching. However, I think we can effectively teach handling adversity without subjecting our kids to ridicule. A lot of people have brought up preparing kids for "the real world" as a defense for these chants. In my real world, I don't have people taunting me for every embarrassing mistake I make in my career or personal life, thankfully. When I do make a mistake, I have to answer to a boss (or a wife) who holds me accountable without mockery. In which real world should people feel entitled to mock the shortcomings of others? It just doesn't seem very respectful to me. Clearly, we have philosophical differences on the idea of sportsmanship, but I appreciate the dialogue.

 

[coach00036]

Protests have started. Hope they continue.

http://www.si.com/extra-mustard/2016/01/13/wisconsin-high-school-basketball-wiaa-students-protest

That's perfect! If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all! I kid, I kid... I love a good protest. What a neat educational experience.

 

[newAD]

http://legis.wisconsin.gov/assembly/kooyenga/pressreleases/Pages/Letter to the WIAA.aspx

An excellent letter by a WI State Rep who played basketball in high school. Somebody who gets it.

 

[sparky62]

You're right, I didn't answer your question.Sorry about that. I would say this: the sole intent of chanting "airball" or "fundamentals" is to embarrass the person who did it. Big difference between that and cheering an opponents failures. I haven't heard many chants about shots that clang off the rim. You mentioned in your first post that the kid clearly knows he shot an airball, and probably feels pretty bad about doing it. Why, then, should we feel the need to pile on and mock? To me, that doesn't have a place in an educational setting. High school sports are just that, an extension of the classroom. I don't let my students mock each other when they make mistakes in class, why would I want them doing it in the gym? Again, I would ask, why do it? What benefit does it provide?

.

IMO this would be called "getting in their head". That is a major objective of every home crowd, to the point that it is their job. Home field advantage is huge.

 

[kakdawg]

I'll probably come out on the minority side of this, but I'm perfectly ok with Wisconsin doing this. We preach the value of sportsmanship in athletics, particularly high school athletics. Most places around here either do a sportsmanship announcement before games, or have a banner hanging in their gyms with a sportsmanship creed on it. Then, as soon as the game starts, sportsmanship is out the window. How about the novel idea of cheering FOR your team instead of AGAINST the other team? Why shouldn't we be cognizant of each others' feelings? Seems like they're encouraging showing a little decency toward your fellow man. That's something I'm always on board with. Treating each other well doesn't undermine competition. Just my initial thoughts after reading the link posted above.

Yeah...u are for sure on the minority side of this lol. But hey I won't knock you. To each his own.

Holla

 

[MITCH492]

Who got the contract to make participation ribbons for the Wisconsin Interscholastic Athletic Association?

 

[newAD]

Who got the contract to make participation ribbons for the Wisconsin Interscholastic Athletic Association?

I'm sure it wasn't the lowest bidder, that wouldn't be fair.

 

[coach00036]

Yeah...u are for sure on the minority side of this lol. But hey I won't knock you. To each his own.

Holla

Oh yeah, I fully expected that to happen on a message board filled with fans. My perspective as an educator is clearly going to be based on a different perspective than most people on here. As well, I would guess that many more of my contemporaries in education would share most of my opinions. It's essentially coming from the idea that I've seen too much. I see how chants start out as harmless and then venture into harmful. I just enjoy discussions like this because it's interesting to hear from people who view something completely differently than I do.

 

[newAD]

IMO this would be called "getting in their head". That is a major objective of every home crowd, to the point that it is their job. Home field advantage is huge.

 

[coach00036]

IMO this would be called "getting in their head". That is a major objective of every home crowd, to the point that it is their job. Home field advantage is huge.

Appreciate your honest response Sparky. That's sort of what I've been trying to get at by asking what good cheers like these do. In order to gain a competitive advantage, we're willing to subject kids (not pros) to embarrassment. That is completely antithetical to the idea of sportsmanship.

 

[sparky62]

Appreciate your honest response Sparky. That's sort of what I've been trying to get at by asking what good cheers like these do. In order to gain a competitive advantage, we're willing to subject kids (not pros) to embarrassment. That is completely antithetical to the idea of sportsmanship.

I kinda agree a little but I also think that it isn't an embarrassing factor as much as it is a competitive edge. It's making a competitive edge and that's what sports are about, winning(talking HS & above). BTW, I'm totally against the every kid gets a ribbon aspect. There will be pressure in everyones life from birth till death. IMO sports really helps a person gorw in this aspect.

BTW, thanks for the very respectful post. Love debating stuff like this.

 

[donahues17]

I have always disliked the term "hostile" when it comes to athletic environments. 90% of the crowds aren't "hostile", maybe "intimidating" by the loud and how involved the crowd is. But when I hear "hostile" I think back to the Colorado days of urine being thrown on the field. Hell even the video of the Wisconsin student section above is "hostile" but that is not the norm from what I have witnessed. Yelling things like "go start the bus" "air ball" "you can't do that" is somewhat humorous to me. I don't even blame the students, I blame the pussified parents these days. Parents that think its not OK for someone else to yell at their kid for being an idiot or making their child responsible for their actions. I can see these parents (basically the people putting these rules in place) not liking someone teasing their little Jimmy for throwing up a prayer of a shot.

Get over it and play ball.

 

[inorbit]

Wisky high schools are telling students they can't chant something that might hurt the other teams feelings at basketball games...like "Air ball" and the like. I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess there are a ton of liberals in Wisconsin....

Oh, there are more than you can shake a stick at. The funny thing is a lot of them hunt. Never saw so many contrary mfs.

 

[nwualum]

I'm as conservative as anyone but I personally don't yell anything at other players, and especially high school students. If you do, you need to get a life. But I understand kids doing it. I think there are times when you can cross the line. A few years ago the Lincoln Southeast students started chanting "suicide high" at Lincoln East after a few kids committed suicide there. That really crosses the line. Some guidelines are ok as long as they are not stupid, which some of these possibly are. I'm guessing most athletes don't even hear it or aren't bothered by it. Personally, when I played I loved to hear some negative stuff. It fired me up and we loved to shut them up, but then again I was fortunate to play on teams that went to state tourney every year in high school so we normally ended up shutting them up anyway.

 

[LDSker]

Refs are still fair game though right?

 

[anon_umk0ifu6vj6zi]

Appreciate your honest response Sparky. That's sort of what I've been trying to get at by asking what good cheers like these do. In order to gain a competitive advantage, we're willing to subject kids (not pros) to embarrassment. That is completely antithetical to the idea of sportsmanship.

Nobody forces kids to play high school sports. If they are that fragile, they would have already been weeded out and would not want to play anyway. As a coach I would think you would want kids that have the "I'll show them" competitive fire. Otherwise they are learning nothing, imo.

 

[litespeedhuskerfan]

Anyone supporting this stupid proposal is just a millimeter away from caving into kids and parents who will want the scoreboard removed next.

 

[tro80]

I guess we agree to disagree. And for the record, I taught for a number of years and have coached at all levels - including high school, and I am a child of a retired HS principal and retired teacher. So, I also come from an educational position. I have yet to see a kid emotionally injured by that or any other similar cheer. If the kid did come to me about it, I would be apt to say "Well you did shoot an air ball, get over it and go play." And no I was not known as an A-hole coach. Maybe society has just passed me by (by the way I'm not that old).

 

[Huskers_Rule]

Wisky high schools are telling students they can't chant something that might hurt the other teams feelings at basketball games...like "Air ball" and the like. I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess there are a ton of liberals in Wisconsin....

Colleges have gone off the reservation and are outright hostile to freedom of speech. It's gotten so bad even some liberals are recognizing it. If you aren't familiar with the term micro aggression you need to read up on the crap they are teaching young people.

 

[anon_umk0ifu6vj6zi]

Colleges have gone off the reservation and are outright hostile to freedom of speech. It's gotten so bad even some liberals are recognizing it. If you aren't familiar with the term micro aggression you need to read up on the crap they are teaching young people.

How many micro-aggressions equal a macro-aggression?