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No mention of the double pass play...

Hoosker Du

Hoosker Du

Nebraska Football Hall of Fame
Dec 11, 2001
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It seems like at least a couple times a game, Langsdorf gets cute when he doesn't need to. With Oregon leading 8 - 7, we had moved the ball right down the field with a nice mix of run and pass and were getting ready to score, and inexplicably he tries a double pass. It ended up a 14 point swing, because Oregon ends up scoring quickly their next series, putting them up 20-7.

I understand that coverage gets a lot tighter in the red zone, but we had started moving the ball well on the ground and with some short passes.
 
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Hoosker Du said:
It seems like at least a couple times a game, Langsdorf gets cute when he doesn't need to. With Oregon leading 8 - 7, we had moved the ball right down the field with a nice mix of run and pass and were getting ready to score, and inexplicably he tries a double pass. It ended up a 14 point swing, because Oregon ends up scoring quickly their next series, putting them up 20-7.

I understand that coverage gets a lot tighter in the red zone, but we had started moving the ball well on the ground and with some short passes.
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Double pass???
 
Are you talking about the lateral to Wilbon we lost? Because, if so, we were down 14-7 at that time and TA said it was a swing pass and he didn't get enough depth.
 
headcard said:
Are you talking about the lateral to Wilbon we lost? Because, if so, we were down 14-7 at that time and TA said it was a swing pass and he didn't get enough depth.
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Yes, not sure why I typed 8-7. It was 14-7.

If that is the case, my apologies to Langsdorf, and that was just atrocious execution on Tommy. Just awful. How did his drop get so altered on a play that they practice so much?
 
I don't like it when Langs gets too cute, usually in the red zone. Not sure why we kept trying to attack the Duck's perimeter when that was their strength with all their speed.

Guess that's why he is the OC
 
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I didn't have a problem with the call, I didn't like the personnel group, specifically Wilbon be in in there at that point. I'm not sure how many snaps Wilbon had at that point of the game, but IMO it just screamed going wide (especially if that was his first snap). Oregon blew up the play before it had a chance.
 
rrthusker said:
I don't like it when Langs gets too cute, usually in the red zone. Not sure why we kept trying to attack the Duck's perimeter when that was their strength with all their speed.

Guess that's why he is the OC
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This one isn't on Langsdorf. It was such a poorly executed swing pass that it looked like we were trying a double pass play. 14 point swing.
 
rrthusker said:
The execution sucked but why even call it? Ducks speed is on the outside and we were moving the ball inside.
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I guess I was so used to Langsdorf calling some wacky play that I immediately assumed he was trying a double pass. I'm not opposed to a swing pass in that down and distance, so I'll give him a pass on the call.
 
Hoosker Du said:
I guess I was so used to Langsdorf calling some wacky play that I immediately assumed he was trying a double pass. I'm not opposed to a swing pass in that down and distance, so I'll give him a pass on the call.
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Fair enough.
 
Hoosker Du said:
Yes, not sure why I typed 8-7. It was 14-7.

If that is the case, my apologies to Langsdorf, and that was just atrocious execution on Tommy. Just awful. How did his drop get so altered on a play that they practice so much?
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No idea and to top it off, he almost did it again in the second half.
 
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headcard said:
No idea and to top it off, he almost did it again in the second half.
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I guess it's one of those plays that you give Tommy a pass too, because he played a hell of a game otherwise. Maybe Wilbon got pushed far enough back that it looked like a poor drop by Tommy, but the ball should never be passed backwards, unless it's a gadget play.
 
Oregon started the game crowding the line. I remember ones series early on where all 11 were close to the LOS. They were fairly successful with this as we struggled to run early. We hit some passes and Oregon went basic keeping everyone at home with a two deep cover two look just begging us to run which we did. If they were bringing backers in the play being in question it would be a perfect call. Turns out the D was right there and sailing one out of bounds would have been the ticket.

Not sure where "double pass" came in. You don't throw the double pass to a RB who is running away from you. Normally it is in the form of a flanker screen type play. But yes the pass has to be backwards.
 
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TruHusker said:
Oregon started the game crowding the line. I remember ones series early on where all 11 were close to the LOS. They were fairly successful with this as we struggled to run early. We hit some passes and Oregon went basic keeping everyone at home with a two deep cover two look just begging us to run which we did. If they were brining backers in the play being in question it would be a perfect call. Turns out the D was right there and sailing one out of bounds would have been the ticket.

Not sure where "double pass" came in. You dont throw the dounle pass to a RB whomis running away from you. Normally it is in the form of a flanker screen type play. But yes the pass has to be backwards.
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Double passes are thrown all the time by RBs, but typically not in the red zone. That's why I couldn't figure out what Langsdorf appeared to be doing.

At any rate, we don't have much complain about. Our guys played a helluva game and never quit when they got down. Giving up 350 yards on the ground should be of greater concern for us.
 
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Hoosker Du said:
Double passes are thrown all the time by RBs, but typically not in the red zone. That's why I couldn't figure out what Langsdorf appeared to be doing.

At any rate, we don't have much complain about. Our guys played a helluva game and never quit when they got down. Giving up 350 yards on the ground should be of greater concern for us.
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The only team that will come close to putting 350 yards rushing is tOSU but even then I think oregons speed and scheme is something we won't see the rest of the year
 
OmahaSker said:
The only team that will come close to putting 350 yards rushing is tOSU but even then I think oregons speed and scheme is something we won't see the rest of the year
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We may never see a team that fast again. Their skill position speed was ridiculous.

With that said, Ohio State has some nasty speed at RB. The experience playing Oregon will help us a lot.
 
I don't think that was a double pass. I think it was designed to get Wilbon the ball in space and something went wrong. To be honest, considering that's the only time I recall Wilbon seeing the field, I figure he was supposed to run up the line to avoid the backward pass. Tommy made a crappy throw, but considering Wilbon never saw the field after that I have to think I was designed to get hm in space up the field and instead of running up field, or at least lateral he put the play in jeopardy.
 
Wilbon came back in as part of a double back set and had a good seal block on DO's TD.
 
The more I think about the job of being an OC the more I respect the job they do. I may be way off, I've never done it, but to me it seams a person doesn't have much time to mull over plays. In the flow of the game you get at most 40 seconds from the end of one play to the start of the next, but that has to include calling the play down, calling it in to the team, calling it in the huddle or at the line, and then having time to make any checks at the line, all the shifts and motion, and usually Tommy snaps it with 5 to 10 left on the clock. My guess is that while the defense is out there the OC starts thinking if we get the ball back deep in our end we are going to run this on 1st down, if we get it closer to mid field we are going to run this, and if we get a turnover we are going to run this. Then depending on where we get the ball we run that 1st down play, and the OC is planning if we are 2 and long we are going to run this, if it's 2 and short then this. Then when the 2nd down play is being run he is planning if it's 3 and short then this play, if it went bad and we're in 3 and long then this, which gets us back to 1st down or a punt.

I'm not making any excuses for bad play calling, I just find it an interesting job where so much rides on a decision that has to be made in a few seconds.
 
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I don't love the swing pass itself, but I do like the package of plays the have based on that motion. That sets up the swing fake back to the screen on the other side that they gashed Oregon with, it sets up the QB draw that they gashed Oregon with.

I was pretty salty about it at the time, but they had hit a nice swing to Ozigbo another time and they KILLED Oregon with the QB draw. You saw them botch the execution on that package against Wyoming, credit to the coaches, they had it cleaned up and hurting Oregon when they needed it in a big game.

You watch next year when the QB run game is pretty much off the table, they're gonna screen and swing some teams to death.
 
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In another thread someone mentioned that on the play before Wilbon went out into the flat and was uncovered. I watched the play again and that is correct. Had the play been run correctly Wilbon likely would have scored, no matter that OU flows so quickly to the ball. That is why the play was called. TA didn't get the drop he should have and so the play failed badly. But it was a good call based on what OU was doing with its defense in the red zone.
 
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Glad to read Langsdorf owned up to this play today in the news. Said that 3 things should've happened on this play that didn't: Tommy needed to take a drop step or two back before making the pass, RB needed to get further up field, and the DE needed to be sealed off. None of those 3 happened like designed. Nonetheless, live and learn...

GBR
 
Hastings_Husker said:
The more I think about the job of being an OC the more I respect the job they do. I may be way off, I've never done it, but to me it seams a person doesn't have much time to mull over plays. In the flow of the game you get at most 40 seconds from the end of one play to the start of the next, but that has to include calling the play down, calling it in to the team, calling it in the huddle or at the line, and then having time to make any checks at the line, all the shifts and motion, and usually Tommy snaps it with 5 to 10 left on the clock. My guess is that while the defense is out there the OC starts thinking if we get the ball back deep in our end we are going to run this on 1st down, if we get it closer to mid field we are going to run this, and if we get a turnover we are going to run this. Then depending on where we get the ball we run that 1st down play, and the OC is planning if we are 2 and long we are going to run this, if it's 2 and short then this. Then when the 2nd down play is being run he is planning if it's 3 and short then this play, if it went bad and we're in 3 and long then this, which gets us back to 1st down or a punt.

I'm not making any excuses for bad play calling, I just find it an interesting job where so much rides on a decision that has to be made in a few seconds.
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Dont forget they have to factor in what part of the field they are on. Left hash, right hash or middle. Many plays are designed for the strong side or weak side. Also making sure you have the right package in for each play. It would be a tough job for sure.
 
jay-cheese said:
Glad to read Langsdorf owned up to this play today in the news. Said that 3 things should've happened on this play that didn't: Tommy needed to take a drop step or two back before making the pass, RB needed to get further up field, and the DE needed to be sealed off. None of those 3 happened like designed. Nonetheless, live and learn...

GBR
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That's my only issue with it. Conceptually it's a simple play. But in order to execute it a lot of things need to be just so, not the least of which is a touch pass about 20 yards out into the flat that allows a catch-and-run by the RB. It's not enough just to have a completion, it needs to be in a spot where he can secure the ball AND THEN run.

Now you could say that about any play in the world, if 3 guys screw up their assignment it probably didn't go real well. It's all about degree of difficulty. I'm big into having the most success with the least intricate set of requirements.

It makes me wanna scream when people describe passes like that as "a long hand-off" or "an extension of the run game." No, it's a pass. A shovel pass is like a run. A swing is like a pass. If they throw it the same distance straight down the field, you'd call it a pass. And it comes along with all the things that can go badly with a pass.

The middle screen to Cethan is another example. That's a HUGE gainer if they just complete it. But instead it's a high, hard rifle shot that slips through his hands. Shoulda caught it. Shoulda but didn'a. Shoulda been a softer throw into his fame. Shoulda but wasn'a.
 
I didnt like the play or the personnel running it. My hindsight skills are finely tuned. Smokin
 
I liked the play call. Watch the play before it (Bryant fumble). It is the same formation and the backs did the same thing. Wilbon was wide open in the flats on Bryant's run. So it makes sense that Langs would run something similar on the next plat to try and exploit the opening in the flats. Poor execution does not mean poor play call.
 
Easy to admit 'poor execution doesn't mean poor play call' when we win. Otherwise, we're busy scratching the OC's name into his tombstone :mad:

GBR
 
Kids muffed the play. It works he is a genius. I agree with why move away from what has been working and add risk. Tommy has always had a hell of a time with the short pass like that one so you are not playing to his strength.
 
GretnaShawn said:
I liked the play call. Watch the play before it (Bryant fumble). It is the same formation and the backs did the same thing. Wilbon was wide open in the flats on Bryant's run. So it makes sense that Langs would run something similar on the next plat to try and exploit the opening in the flats. Poor execution does not mean poor play call.
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They also did the play at around 8 to go in the first quarter. It's obviously practiced with that personnel, just wasn't executed by Tommy, he pressed and didnt drop fast enough, Wilbon was forced back so Tommy should have tucked it and ran.

It was a fine play call, led by earlier shots, Oregon just sniffed it and Tommy made a split second decision he shouldn't have. Happens.
 
walnut creek said:
Kids muffed the play. It works he is a genius. I agree with why move away from what has been working and add risk. Tommy has always had a hell of a time with the short pass like that one so you are not playing to his strength.
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IMO, if that pass was to Newby instead of Wilbon, it would have been complete for a short gain.....and not a turnover.
 
I liked the play call, should have been a safe way to vary our attack if executed properly. I also really like to ball catching skills of our group of i-backs.
 
To reiterate, a swing pass being called is a very fine play call, IMO. The play just initially looked more like a double pass than a swing pass, because it's a Cardinal Sin to throw the ball backwards on anything other than a double pass play. But admittedly if it would have been a DP play, it would look like a pretty awkward looking DP play.
 
Langsdorf called a decent game. I was pissed we threw in the red zone though in 2 different series when we were running it well. He thinks like the NFL guys do. He's gotta remember who's playing QB for us.
 
HuskerPower972 said:
Langsdorf called a decent game. I was pissed we threw in the red zone though in 2 different series when we were running it well. He thinks like the NFL guys do. He's gotta remember who's playing QB for us.
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This is silly. You act as if once we're in the red zone any throw Tommy makes will be a bad one. Three of his TD passes are in the red zone, all inside the 10 yard line I think.

Some of you just don't want to admit that, at least so far, Tommy had improved. Through three games, how many ints has Tommy thrown? Let me help you out... 1 int.

So what that means is that if Langsdorf has Tommy drop back in the red zone, you can still watch. It isn't an automatic turnover...

You and others can say things like "he's gotta remember who's playing QB for us," but this is a different Tommy. at least so far.
 
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