MOAB dropped in Afghanistan...

[TheBeav815]

To quote a friend who I was deployed with...

"We've been degrading terrorist capabilities in this country for 15 years".

Having supported this particular effort in the past, I can say that they probably hit this thing with the idea that this was the weapon for the job, or at the very least, hey instead of doing something "normal" lets try this thing out and see how well it works and it'll at least save us dropping a bunch of other things.

That's an excellent quote that perfectly encapsulates how I feel about the GWOT. Perfectly noble cause, but there's no real end to it and no clear definition of success.

And that's the burden you bear when you continue to be in the practice of having far and away the world's largest and most powerful military. Everyone expects you to be the one to do something about it when somebody is stirring the shit half a world away. And so you do, which means you need to keep pumping that cash and attention into the military, which means when the next shit stirrer gets his spoon out, everyone looks at you, and so on.

TBH I was really hoping Trump's penchant for isolationism would stick.

 

[litespeedhuskerfan]

I had to Google "GWOT".

 

[jflores]

I do think its a good question to ask.

There could have been one guy in that cave. There could have been 300. Even if there was 300, it still might have been just one more whack of a mole in a 16 year game of "whack a mole".

There are a lot of actions taken that Americans never hear anything about. So they have a very skewed view of the ebb and flow of operations.

The longest I had ever worked was three days straight, when we continuously bombed the schnozzle out of a cave complex in Eastern Afghanistan. We killed a bunch of bad dudes, and we made a concerted effort at this location because we had reason to believe Bilal was there. (Bilal and Faruq al Qatahni were the two biggest targets in Afghanistan). They are basically ghosts, if you get a shot at them, or even a rumored shot at them, you make sure nothing leaves alive.

However, that action never made the news. For all the killing we did, it didn't change the direction of the war, any more than previous actions didn't. They finally got ol' Faruq late in Obama's term. There are several other folks I can think of that my friends and I joke about, we will probably have tea with some years down the road when the Afghan war is some decades behind us.

Link below if you don't know who Faruq and Bilal are.

http://www.longwarjournal.org/archi...r-al-qaeda-leaders-in-eastern-afghanistan.php

Very curious as to what the effectiveness was. I assume that lots caves and tunnels have been known for many years. A bomb they've had for over a decade. I'd be interested to hear why this was the right time and target to deploy it.

Translation:im going to look for something to complain about cuz i hate trump and am more biased than that ucla players dad.

From my understanding of the MOAB, even though it is a heavy bomb, it is a concussion bomb rather than explosive. So damage will not be as much as effectiveness....If that makes sense.
As far as the timing? I. Only speculating that's a combination of timing, message sending, experimentation......Since to my knowledge we haven't used it at least not recently. Iran take notice since we suspect their nuclear program is underground.
The tunnels and caves have been used as a major transport system.

 

[grayhairedfreak]

That's an excellent quote that perfectly encapsulates how I feel about the GWOT. Perfectly noble cause, but there's no real end to it and no clear definition of success.

And that's the burden you bear when you continue to be in the practice of having far and away the world's largest and most powerful military. Everyone expects you to be the one to do something about it when somebody is stirring the shit half a world away. And so you do, which means you need to keep pumping that cash and attention into the military, which means when the next shit stirrer gets his spoon out, everyone looks at you, and so on.

TBH I was really hoping Trump's penchant for isolationism would stick.

Beav, if you are the documentary type, I highly recommend "American Umpire." It discusses pretty impartially the concerns you bring up. It was on PBS a while back.

 

[Hoosker Du]

From data if I remember correctly, has an effective radius of 1 mile.

So...2 miles across the blast area. Wow, that's BIG! But Russia's FOAB (Father of All Bombs) is supposedly 4x more powerful. Either way, neither is just a light tap on your front door.

 

[jflores]

So...2 miles across the blast area. Wow, that's BIG! But Russia's FOAB (Father of All Bombs) is supposedly 4x more powerful. Either way, neither is just a light tap on your front door.

Yah I would have liked to have seen this thing deployed in Iraq during the early part of the war. But Saddam folded up pretty fast.

Finding 2 miles of open space in Eastern Afghanistan is a trick. Slamming this thing right up on a cave would shape the blast more upwards instead of just flowing out forever along a desert floor.

 

[TheBeav815]

I had to Google "GWOT".

Didn't know I was GWA huh?

 

[litespeedhuskerfan]

Didn't know I was GWA huh?

Googled failed me on that one I'm afraid.

 

[TheBeav815]

I do think its a good question to ask.

There could have been one guy in that cave. There could have been 300. Even if there was 300, it still might have been just one more whack of a mole in a 16 year game of "whack a mole".

There are a lot of actions taken that Americans never hear anything about. So they have a very skewed view of the ebb and flow of operations.

The longest I had ever worked was three days straight, when we continuously bombed the schnozzle out of a cave complex in Eastern Afghanistan. We killed a bunch of bad dudes, and we made a concerted effort at this location because we had reason to believe Bilal was there. (Bilal and Faruq al Qatahni were the two biggest targets in Afghanistan). They are basically ghosts, if you get a shot at them, or even a rumored shot at them, you make sure nothing leaves alive.

However, that action never made the news. For all the killing we did, it didn't change the direction of the war, any more than previous actions didn't. They finally got ol' Faruq late in Obama's term. There are several other folks I can think of that my friends and I joke about, we will probably have tea with some years down the road when the Afghan war is some decades behind us.

Link below if you don't know who Faruq and Bilal are.

http://www.longwarjournal.org/archi...r-al-qaeda-leaders-in-eastern-afghanistan.php

I certainly have no doubt that our people are over there doing their best and operating effectively. As you say, though, it's whack-a-mole.

People talk about it as though the USAF can drop something big enough that we'll receive a letter of surrender from the Prime Minister of ISIS, and it doesn't work like that.

They talk about NK like they used to talk about Iraq, like we ought to roll in there, overthrow Kim, dust off our hands and head back home feeling very proud. It's not that easy. A destabilized Iraq, it seems, has been a bigger threat to the world than Sadam ever was.

Hard to imagine China and Russia would want to stand idly by and let us occupy North Korea after "liberating" it. Nor could they be expected to take a hands-off approach and let the people decide their own destiny if we didn't occupy it.

 

[TheBeav815]

Googled failed me on that one I'm afraid.

Good
With
Acronyms

 

[jflores]

"Given the difficulty of military movement in the province, the MOAB is an excellent choice for reducing enemy infrastructure and forces in the area. For those reasons, the use of the MOAB probably represents neither an escalation nor a change in strategy or tactics by the Trump administration. It’s just the appropriate matching of ordnance to target. "

"It does not have the capability to penetrate deeply into terrain and destroy a deeply buried target. It is, however, imminently well-suited to collapsing cave openings and killing combatants within the local area. "

Relevant to the Iran/NK talk.

Good article by the General.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017...istan-heres-what-it-does-and-doesnt-mean.html

 

[huskerfan66]

So...2 miles across the blast area. Wow, that's BIG! But Russia's FOAB (Father of All Bombs) is supposedly 4x more powerful. Either way, neither is just a light tap on your front door.

Our Father is still home!! Someone else name on that one perhaps.

 

[jlb321]

penetration is a must at some point.

I agree

 

[huskerfan66]

"Given the difficulty of military movement in the province, the MOAB is an excellent choice for reducing enemy infrastructure and forces in the area. For those reasons, the use of the MOAB probably represents neither an escalation nor a change in strategy or tactics by the Trump administration. It’s just the appropriate matching of ordnance to target. "

"It does not have the capability to penetrate deeply into terrain and destroy a deeply buried target. It is, however, imminently well-suited to collapsing cave openings and killing combatants within the local area. "

Relevant to the Iran/NK talk.

Good article by the General.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017...istan-heres-what-it-does-and-doesnt-mean.html

I have not figured out to only do a quote but what you quoted is spot-on and I believe what I posted or attempted to say up above earlier.

The second paragraph is what I mean, sorry.

 

[cornhustler]

When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are undisturbed. Luke 11:21

"If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me." Matthew 19:21

 

[mwulf]

We have a President who seems to thrive on praise and he has learned that bombs=praise (also deflects his Russia problem), I am really worried about how the North Korea situation will unfold

 

[TheNewNU]

Translation:im going to look for something to complain about cuz i hate trump and am more biased than that ucla players dad.

Contracted Liberalism, too bad.

 

[bomber89]

I suggest America dropped it to show North Korea that their underground nuclear facilities are not safe and if they test another nuclear weapon America has a little something for them. I am not saying I am for this or against it. I am a vet who hates war. it has its place, but as last resort. There is peace through strength but there is also a phrase, if you play with fire too long you will get burnt. Proud Vet who wants peace, but not by means of being a doormat. Looking for balance

 

[Bugeater]

Damn, I bet that knocked all the dishes out of the cabinets!

 

[Bugeater]

I think that bomb is just slightly bigger than the firecracker Ensign Pulver blew up in the laundry room in Mr. Roberts.

 

[Toms Wife]

When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are undisturbed. Luke 11:21

I love that verse. Dropping the MOAB just means we are guarding our own house, baby!

...unless you read the next verse which completely negates this whole line of thinking. It's probably best to not throw scripture out to somehow support a position of dropping massive bombs.

 

[huskerfan1414]

TBH I was really hoping Trump's penchant for isolationism would stick.

He also said he would bomb isis and try to take them out. People seem to forget that.
I think people are trying ro read too much into this. Trump,praised the military a lot so im guessing they came to him suggesting this. Large compound, lets drop moab. I really dont think north korea was a factor, but perhaps a bonus.
At the end of fhe day we need to remember that isis beheads people, drops them in acid, lights them on fire, kills children, hates and kills gays, and degrades women. They also cant be reasoned with nor do they want compassion. They want you to die. Thats it.
People who arent warhawks but understand isis should celebrate this move. We saw a chance to take out a strategic isis spot amd did it without troop invasion.

 

[CrashPad]

Any time we choose to go after some despot we destabilize this world. Any time we want to become isolationist we destabilize the world. We cannot become the worlds policeman and nor can we shrink away from the world.
There is only one world after all and we are a part of it.

 

[inWV]

I suggest America dropped it to show North Korea that their underground nuclear facilities are not safe and if they test another nuclear weapon America has a little something for them. I am not saying I am for this or against it. I am a vet who hates war. it has its place, but as last resort. There is peace through strength but there is also a phrase, if you play with fire too long you will get burnt. Proud Vet who wants peace, but not by means of being a doormat. Looking for balance

It may come to this eventually, but deploying a substantial weapon of war on the Korean peninsula ups the odds of a shooting war there more than just a tad.

 

[jflores]

Video of the explosion

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/0...pact-against-isis-tunnels-in-afghanistan.html

 

[jflores]

He also said he would bomb isis and try to take them out. People seem to forget that.
I think people are trying ro read too much into this. Trump,praised the military a lot so im guessing they came to him suggesting this. Large compound, lets drop moab. I really dont think north korea was a factor, but perhaps a bonus.
At the end of fhe day we need to remember that isis beheads people, drops them in acid, lights them on fire, kills children, hates and kills gays, and degrades women. They also cant be reasoned with nor do they want compassion. They want you to die. Thats it.
People who arent warhawks but understand isis should celebrate this move. We saw a chance to take out a strategic isis spot amd did it without troop invasion.

You might want to slow your roll on the "take out strategic ISIS spot without invasion" thing. Sure we killed 36 guys holed up in the ground which is always a good thing, but this is not retaking the Eagle's Nest either.

There are plenty more fighters. Plenty more holes in the ground.

Take a look at this link DJT had claimed at one time ISIS presence in 32 countries. Which is a bit of a stretch with a loose definition, but this was one hole in the ground in one country we invaded 16 years ago. Even if one uses the accepted Congressional Research report of 9 countries, take a look at that map of anywhere from 9-16 countries with presence and tell me how big this war has to be in your opinion to cripple ISIS.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...t-crucial-defining-how-many-countries-now-ha/

 

[TheBeav815]

He also said he would bomb isis and try to take them out. People seem to forget that.
I think people are trying ro read too much into this. Trump,praised the military a lot so im guessing they came to him suggesting this. Large compound, lets drop moab. I really dont think north korea was a factor, but perhaps a bonus.
At the end of fhe day we need to remember that isis beheads people, drops them in acid, lights them on fire, kills children, hates and kills gays, and degrades women. They also cant be reasoned with nor do they want compassion. They want you to die. Thats it.
People who arent warhawks but understand isis should celebrate this move. We saw a chance to take out a strategic isis spot amd did it without troop invasion.

Let's not confuse the idea that we'll never run out of radicals to fight with the notion that we're fans of radicals. I get that ISIS consists of a bunch of a-holes. My problem, and I think I've used this metaphor before, is that it's like punching a river. You can throw a hell of a punch, but it keeps right on flowing.

I also worry that being involved in strikes and military action in foreign countries is a super way to breed the next generation of kids who grow up pissed off at America. Even "surgical" strikes have collateral damage.

The US has the same problem that United had this week. A United Express crew (not technically even United's people) made a dumb decision and then a security guard made it way worse. Who takes the heat? The top guy at United.

Coalition forces had a friendly fire incident. Not our military, from my understanding, but guess who has the biggest brand in that arena? The USofA. So the blame will get hurled at us.

The GWOT is a thankless, hard-to-measure job that never really ends. They're over there fighting bad guys, that's for sure. The question is how long does that continue and who pays for it.

 

[Rick.Flare]

Anything that turns radical jihadists into a fine pink mist, I'm a fan of.

 

[jflores]

Keep an eye on North Korea for the next couple days...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ld-trumps-aggression-amid-nuclear-test-crisis

 

[huskerfan1414]

You might want to slow your roll on the "take out strategic ISIS spot without invasion" thing. Sure we killed 36 guys holed up in the ground which is always a good thing, but this is not retaking the Eagle's Nest either.

There are plenty more fighters. Plenty more holes in the ground.

Take a look at this link DJT had claimed at one time ISIS presence in 32 countries. Which is a bit of a stretch with a loose definition, but this was one hole in the ground in one country we invaded 16 years ago. Even if one uses the accepted Congressional Research report of 9 countries, take a look at that map of anywhere from 9-16 countries with presence and tell me how big this war has to be in your opinion to cripple ISIS.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...t-crucial-defining-how-many-countries-now-ha/

Is there something inaccurate about what i said? Did i ever say that we have now defeated isis?

 

[jflores]

Is there something inaccurate about what i said? Did i ever say that we have now defeated isis?

I probably read more into your "without invasion" comment than was intended. My apologies.

You can see on the video, this was a hole in the ground sorta isolated from itself. This would never be a cause for an invasion.

 

[Hoosker Du]

Good
With
Acronyms

I was pleased that I got GWOT without Google, and was initially pissed at myself for not pulling off GWA. Now I don't feel so bad.