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Let's put out what we know

jflores

Offensive Coordinator
Feb 3, 2004
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and what we think we know to gauge the winds of change.

Damon Benning has not been above question coaching decisions, but has preached time and player buy in, recruiting, etc. Damon has been explicit in the past that "you are what you are" and despite what fan expectations are week to week, nothing was probably radically going to change for NU in the course of the season. His latest tweet is about making practices more physical.

Frazier went out and basically went to bat for Riley on the radio the other day preaching time, player buy in, and generally, more onus on the players to both execute and get fired up for games. He was pretty explicit that the fan base is irrational in that this will change overnight. He also explicitly stated that this season isn't about W's and L's, its about changing a culture and developing trust. His latest tweet on the matter seems to continue this thought, his unhappiness with player fire at Purdue.

The Jet did much as Frazier did.

Zatechka has indicated he'd like to see more run identity and physicality, but generally preaching time, player buy in, recruiting, and generally more onus on the players to make plays. He also directly addressed the "burn the whole thing down, take West O money and put Alberts and Frost in charge" as laughable if not ill advised message board crap.

Milt Tenopir had the famous piece in the past 10 days or so, where he liked what the staff was doing, and so forth but the game has changed and NU isn't going to be like the old days. Things take time, etc.

Vedral today on the Big Red Over Reaction, not above questioning coaching decisions, but generally held that "this will take time" "change is coming" and some of the older players "need to be given parting gifts and a thanks for playing". He is presumably not happy with the outcome of the games, but his tenor was bright and even, and he ponied up with Sharp that on Nov 1, NU needs to become Riley's program.

A common theme here, that I'm able to discern, is that anyone who is remotely prominent in the Husker program and who probably has the ear of the AD from time to time, has *not once* called for Eichorst to burn this thing down and starting spending money until 11 wins shows up.

I think a common disconnect between the message boards and former players and coaches is that things that message board types feel are "excuses" such as injuries, building a culture, buy in, putting onus on the players to excecute etc are seen as small if not trivial excuses to us, and most people who have played or coached at that level, seem to indicate these are not small things to deal with and will take some number of seasons to turn around.

One thing I can appreciate about the celebrity take is that its measured and reasoned, and not prone to week to week swings. Like they have an actual direction to be rowing. So much of fan discourse is, oh the coaches suck, fire them now! and then next week, oh we see a little improvement, I can get behind this for the time being!
 
Yes, I believe that if he gets his players, at least on offense, it is going to be much better. My major complaint is that I thought he would / could come in and adjust the game plan to fit our personnel. It certainly doesn't look like it has happened or will happen. That is what disappoints me. He'd better kill it on the recruiting / developing because next year looks like it will be rough and so I am hoping for a year 3 to be a good year and from there on out. If his recruiting / development isn't as advertised, we are going to be suffering for another 3 to 5 years.
 
Everyone should understand time and what it can do for a program but only under the right leadership. Right now our leadership is a disaster and I doubt time will fix that. We have not made a damn bit of progress, none, zero, zilch... The door isn't slowly opening here, it's slamming shut. They've had time to show something, anything is better than nothing but they have shown just that, nothing. We're not going to see some drastic turnaround next season, it's much harder to do that when you cant even show a tiny bit of progress in your first 9 games. As I've said before, it's full on regression here.
 
If the recruiting was looking better I would feel more optomistc but right now we are barely averaging 3 stars. I love POB and a couple of others but we need recruiting to pick up. I to will continue to support the team but this is an all time low for me.
 
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I could understand patience if Riley was a young guy, who brought excitement to the program, had a Top 10 recruiting class, and had shown evidence that he could be a great head coach.

Nothing on his resume makes me believe he can make this program great again, and looking at him physically on the sideline, I seriously don't think he has more than 5 years left of coaching in him. He's looked almost lifeless on the sideline lately. By the time he gets all of his guys in here, he'll be over 65 years old.
 
All I know is I no longer think Riley is the answer to our problem of finding a head coach to lead us back to the national stage. Losing to Purdue the way we did is unacceptable. I don't care about injuries or whatever else. We have more talent than Purdue, even with our 2nd and 3rd stringers. This staff is even more inept than the last, which is quite the achievement.

Can't believe I bought into the whole "he needs more time" talk. He's had 8 months and in that time we've regressed in most phases. Sat what you want about injuries, team cancer, poor oline play (no rotation to get anyone else real reps either) etc. Quite frankly I'm embarrassed to wear Husker gear anywhere now and thought about taking the decals off my car earlier. It's like we are cursed.
 
Never mind that crap, how's the wife and baby?

Kid is doing great but has night and day mixed up as normal. Mom overall well but having a rough go after this third c section. She has a history of medical issues that make it much tougher for her.
 
All I know is I no longer think Riley is the answer to our problem of finding a head coach to lead us back to the national stage. Losing to Purdue the way we did is unacceptable. I don't care about injuries or whatever else. We have more talent than Purdue, even with our 2nd and 3rd stringers. This staff is even more inept than the last, which is quite the achievement.

Can't believe I bought into the whole "he needs more time" talk. He's had 8 months and in that time we've regressed in most phases. Sat what you want about injuries, team cancer, poor oline play (no rotation to get anyone else real reps either) etc. Quite frankly I'm embarrassed to wear Husker gear anywhere now and thought about taking the decals off my car earlier. It's like we are cursed.

Although I didn't mention it Frazier did directly address this. Saying he can't buy the "he's had enough time" angle you are presenting when the guy has only been in the driver seat some months. He also went on a mini rant about folks calling it the Riley era, he says how can you have an era at only x number of games?
 
Everyone should understand time and what it can do for a program but only under the right leadership. Right now our leadership is a disaster and I doubt time will fix that. We have not made a damn bit of progress, none, zero, zilch... The door isn't slowly opening here, it's slamming shut. They've had time to show something, anything is better than nothing but they have shown just that, nothing. We're not going to see some drastic turnaround next season, it's much harder to do that when you cant even show a tiny bit of progress in your first 9 games. As I've said before, it's full on regression here.

Frazier addressed this directly as well. Saying something to the effect of "if you can't see progress in Armstrong you have no idea about football"
 
Frazier addressed this directly as well. Saying something to the effect of "if you can't see progress in Armstrong you have no idea about football"

All I see is the same bad mechanics, inaccurate passes, and throwing to the other team or up for grabs. I must not know much about football though.
 
I have said before that Tommy has definitely improved and so has the rush defense. The rest of the team have taken a noticeable step backwards or improved very little. That is why I am so down on this hire.

Secondary's been a hot mess, dline has done nothing all season, linebackers can't stay healthy so hard to get a true read on them, oline is inconsistent at best, wr still drop a lot of passes and no RB had emerged. Lastly special teams have been atrocious after being a bright spot last season.

I am happy to admit when I'm wrong but aside from Tommy and an improved rush defense, where is the improvement? Stevenson's redshirt gets burned for what, 15-20 kick returns? I am struggling to find the hope, show me and I'll preach to the heavens about the need for more time.
 
Are you serious? They HAVE to show full support and cant be critical because of who they are, and their jobs. Its too risky for them to be ultra critical in a public forum. I know many former players, coaches, and current donors who are pissed. This staff is terrible...will NEVER succeed....the sooner a change is made will be better. Its inevitable anyway.
 
Are you serious? They HAVE to show full support and cant be critical because of who they are, and their jobs. Its too risky for them to be ultra critical in a public forum. I know many former players, coaches, and current donors who are pissed. This staff is terrible...will NEVER succeed....the sooner a change is made will be better. Its inevitable anyway.

All have been critical agree. I think Frazier is employed by Alegent, not exActly beholden to NU
 
Milt is retired. Verzal is self employed and does guest spots on radio. Zatechka is a doc.

Bending is the only one who routinely finds himself in his employ running against the ad
 
Cmon man...use your head. As a FORMER HUSKER can they just publicly be brutally honest about their thoughts???? You clearly have no idea how that would affect them. Doesnt matter who they work for silly.
 
Yes, I believe that if he gets his players, at least on offense, it is going to be much better. My major complaint is that I thought he would / could come in and adjust the game plan to fit our personnel. It certainly doesn't look like it has happened or will happen. That is what disappoints me. He'd better kill it on the recruiting / developing because next year looks like it will be rough and so I am hoping for a year 3 to be a good year and from there on out. If his recruiting / development isn't as advertised, we are going to be suffering for another 3 to 5 years.
I think that is what is hard for many, me included. We won't know for sure if this is going to work until bos players get out and MR players get in. That will take 3-5 years. Then if we found out it doesn't work we have to wait another 3-5 years for the next guy to come it. I dont think anyone here wants to wait 6-10 years to start producing good football again. So the theory of burn it all down now and start over will put us ahead of the game. In theory, that is.
 
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Cmon man...use your head. As a FORMER HUSKER can they just publicly be brutally honest about their thoughts???? You clearly have no idea how that would affect them. Doesnt matter who they work for silly.

It's only been 24 hours since my father spoke with Tagge and Tagge was still on board with Riley in his private office in a building he owns. A one on one situation with a nobody and no prying eyes. Hell my dad isn't even an NU fan

It wouldn't surprise me to find that other former players are as level headed as they seem.
 
I think that is what is hard for many, me included. We won't know for sure if this is going to work until bos players get out and MR players get in. That will take 3-5 years. Then if we found out it doesn't work we have to wait another 3-5 years for the next guy to come it. I dont think anyone here wants to wait 6-10 years to start producing good football again. So the theory of burn it all down now and start over will put us ahead of the game. In theory, that is.

Why does it take 3-5 years? Florida is 7-1. Michigan only has two losses, Houston is undefeated. 1st year coaches. That is just an excuse when a coach comes in and lays an egg.

With a first year head coach, it may not always show up in the win-loss column--but generally you see some progress through the season--something to hang your hat on. Where is the progress with this team. This team is so much worse than last year, it isn't even funny. This staff was a monumental mistake. It is looking a lot like this team will go from 4 losses to 4 wins.
 
Good for Tagge...maybe he likes poor coaching. People I know dont wanna lose consistently. Congrats to your dad for not being a NU fan too.
 
Why does it take 3-5 years? Florida is 7-1. Michigan only has two losses, Houston is undefeated. 1st year coaches. That is just an excuse when a coach comes in and lays an egg.

With a first year head coach, it may not always show up in the win-loss column--but generally you see some progress through the season--something to hang your hat on. Where is the progress with this team. This team is so much worse than last year, it isn't even funny. This staff was a monumental mistake. It is looking a lot like this team will go from 4 losses to 4 wins.

I agree with this. It's nice to have former players come out and say nice things, but it's another to see results on the field. If we were seeing progress, a lot more people would be understanding of the win/loss record.

The former players can come out and say give it time, but why? What are they pointing to that deserves more time? Simply saying Riley needs "his" guys in here to win doesn't quite cut it for me. Adjust to the talent on the team to win games while you get "your" guys in. It's difficult to watch us play teams like Illinois and Purdue and think "Okay, we just need to get a few of Riley's guys and then this will all work out."
 
Today i
I agree with this. It's nice to have former players come out and say nice things, but it's another to see results on the field. If we were seeing progress, a lot more people would be understanding of the win/loss record.

The former players can come out and say give it time, but why? What are they pointing to that deserves more time? Simply saying Riley needs "his" guys in here to win doesn't quite cut it for me. Adjust to the talent on the team to win games while you get "your" guys in. It's difficult to watch us play teams like Illinois and Purdue and think "Okay, we just need to get a few of Riley's guys and then this will all work out."

New coaches and their fit for the current roster does matter. Was it a better fit for Florida and Michigan with their new coaches? Probably. Not to mention that both of those schools (I think) had really good recruiting classes years prior to their new coaches coming in. I wanted to believe that Riley and his assistants would be able to maximize the current rosters abilities, but they haven't shown that they can do that, because they don't seem to be willing to stray from the system they are comfortable with which, unfortunately, doesn't jibe with what we've got. And while TA has improved, he is absolutely not built to run what Riley and Langs want to do, so that is a huge factor. If we get a stud pocket passer, the O will be significantly better. Regarding the defense, the run D has generally been good, even with a terrible injury problem with our LB's, but boy that secondary doesn't seem to be good at anything.
 
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I agree with this. It's nice to have former players come out and say nice things, but it's another to see results on the field. If we were seeing progress, a lot more people would be understanding of the win/loss record.

The former players can come out and say give it time, but why? What are they pointing to that deserves more time? Simply saying Riley needs "his" guys in here to win doesn't quite cut it for me. Adjust to the talent on the team to win games while you get "your" guys in. It's difficult to watch us play teams like Illinois and Purdue and think "Okay, we just need to get a few of Riley's guys and then this will all work out."

The common theme from former players seems to be that changing a culture is not always a now thing. Fans seem to brush aside this as an excuse but the tone out of former players is definitely one more wary of the challenges and the implications of not all oars in the same direction.

The player base does generally recognize that in some situations it is indeed lightning in a bottle. Florida and Michigan being two examples although the context of the situations as recognized is generally more nuanced than message board fans would accept.

For example I don't think I've ever heard Frazier or zatechka accept that Riley could come in and do what harbaugh was doing without further consideration of the fact that it was a talent stacked roster with a ready built high level defense. I don't think they would concede the situations as at all equal.
 
Why does it take 3-5 years? Florida is 7-1. Michigan only has two losses, Houston is undefeated. 1st year coaches. That is just an excuse when a coach comes in and lays an egg.

With a first year head coach, it may not always show up in the win-loss column--but generally you see some progress through the season--something to hang your hat on. Where is the progress with this team. This team is so much worse than last year, it isn't even funny. This staff was a monumental mistake. It is looking a lot like this team will go from 4 losses to 4 wins.
Cmon man. You're smarter than that. Michigan and Florida are loaded with talent. NU not so much. Our backup QB throws 4 really bad picks and loses a bad snap fumble all of which lead to points and its our coaches fault? OK maybe we should have run it more but cmon man. You can't go minus 5 on turnovers and win.
 
I think people in general are more optimistic than pessimistic, and that's what you are seeing in those comments from ex-players. None of these guys wants to be the guy to call 'garbage' garbage in a social media platform.

I would bet anything if you got one of them by himself he would be very forthright that this staff has done a poor job this year.
 
Why does it take 3-5 years? Florida is 7-1. Michigan only has two losses, Houston is undefeated. 1st year coaches. That is just an excuse when a coach comes in and lays an egg.

With a first year head coach, it may not always show up in the win-loss column--but generally you see some progress through the season--something to hang your hat on. Where is the progress with this team. This team is so much worse than last year, it isn't even funny. This staff was a monumental mistake. It is looking a lot like this team will go from 4 losses to 4 wins.

Where are you seeing 4 wins? Rutgers? I don't see that as a win...at all.
 
I think people in general are more optimistic than pessimistic, and that's what you are seeing in those comments from ex-players. None of these guys wants to be the guy to call 'garbage' garbage in a social media platform.

I would bet anything if you got one of them by himself he would be very forthright that this staff has done a poor job this year.
One on one they absolutely would. Publicly guys like TFraz and JR wouldn't hesitate ONE second to lay it out there if they were unhappy. Hell TFraz did it a couple of years ago about Bo. I don't know what anybody expected with OVER HALF of our projected defensive starters from spring ball gone or injured this fall. Then we start our backup walk on QB, he throws 4 BAD picks that result in scores, and the sky is falling? Good heavens people need to get a reality check.
 
All I know is I no longer think Riley is the answer to our problem of finding a head coach to lead us back to the national stage. Losing to Purdue the way we did is unacceptable. I don't care about injuries or whatever else. We have more talent than Purdue, even with our 2nd and 3rd stringers. This staff is even more inept than the last, which is quite the achievement.

Can't believe I bought into the whole "he needs more time" talk. He's had 8 months and in that time we've regressed in most phases. Sat what you want about injuries, team cancer, poor oline play (no rotation to get anyone else real reps either) etc. Quite frankly I'm embarrassed to wear Husker gear anywhere now and thought about taking the decals off my car earlier. It's like we are cursed.
If the team is so bad how do they put 48 points on Minnesota, a team that is leading late in the 3rd against Michigan. How do they score 29 points in one quarter of football. The problem they have is consistency and urgency. Patience is definitely needed. There is always growing pains and this season hurts.
 
Where are you seeing 4 wins? Rutgers? I don't see that as a win...at all.
As soon as we started seeing injuries at linebacker and DE we should have ALL seen 4 wins. Watching MInnesota tonight I'm not sure how we beat them.
 
Cmon man. You're smarter than that. Michigan and Florida are loaded with talent. NU not so much. Our backup QB throws 4 really bad picks and loses a bad snap fumble all of which lead to points and its our coaches fault? OK maybe we should have run it more but cmon man. You can't go minus 5 on turnovers and win.
Bad snaps should have been corrected in the spring/fall. And a better game plan running the ball as well as better catching from the wideouts would have taken away the 4 INTs. Wasnt all on Fyfe but Darlington couldn't have played much worse IMO. Give the young guys a shot to see what they can do. Season is lost anyway.
 
Cmon man. You're smarter than that. Michigan and Florida are loaded with talent. NU not so much. Our backup QB throws 4 really bad picks and loses a bad snap fumble all of which lead to points and its our coaches fault? OK maybe we should have run it more but cmon man. You can't go minus 5 on turnovers and win.
We had 29 running plays and 48 passing, 3 of those running plays were actually passing plays, 2 sacks and the fumbled snap. So that is 51 pass plays called and 26 rushes against the 104th rushing defense in the nation. Riley claimed he got away from running the ball because of the negative plays, only 2 of those were from running backs, the others were from jet sweeps. WHAT IN THE HELL IS AN INTERCEPTION IF NOT A NEGATIVE PLAY?

All 5 turnovers came on called pass plays, AGAINST THE WORSE RUSHING DEFENSE IN THE B1G!
The only talent gap we have against the teams we lost to is the gap between Riley's ears.
 
All I know is I no longer think Riley is the answer to our problem of finding a head coach to lead us back to the national stage. Losing to Purdue the way we did is unacceptable. I don't care about injuries or whatever else. We have more talent than Purdue, even with our 2nd and 3rd stringers. This staff is even more inept than the last, which is quite the achievement.

Can't believe I bought into the whole "he needs more time" talk. He's had 8 months and in that time we've regressed in most phases. Sat what you want about injuries, team cancer, poor oline play (no rotation to get anyone else real reps either) etc. Quite frankly I'm embarrassed to wear Husker gear anywhere now and thought about taking the decals off my car earlier. It's like we are cursed.

So, feel free no to wear Husker gear. You are so much smarter than the past players who know just how damaged Bo left this program. You are incredibly wrong about talent, especially on the defensive end side. We have two great DTs and a bunch of NAIA players. Not one of our LBs could run a 5.2 forty with a 60 mph wind behind them, while running downhill. I am guessing you aren't an alumni.
 
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I agree with this. It's nice to have former players come out and say nice things, but it's another to see results on the field. If we were seeing progress, a lot more people would be understanding of the win/loss record.

The former players can come out and say give it time, but why? What are they pointing to that deserves more time? Simply saying Riley needs "his" guys in here to win doesn't quite cut it for me. Adjust to the talent on the team to win games while you get "your" guys in. It's difficult to watch us play teams like Illinois and Purdue and think "Okay, we just need to get a few of Riley's guys and then this will all work out."
So you lose several starters and you think a coach can just easily overcome it. I think the guy has done great if you look at it in those terms and stop comparing to teams that had guys who are playing and starting on Sunday in the NFL. You take Ameer Abdullah out of those games last years and Bo doesn't win half of them. Look at the Dallas Cowboys without Romo and Bryant and how many wins do they have. Zero. You need things like health in order to win football games. Riley has yet to be blown out of a game which Bo did on a regular basis.
 
Cmon man. You're smarter than that. Michigan and Florida are loaded with talent. NU not so much. Our backup QB throws 4 really bad picks and loses a bad snap fumble all of which lead to points and its our coaches fault? OK maybe we should have run it more but cmon man. You can't go minus 5 on turnovers and win.

I only saw two bad picks. Hovey must catch the one pass. He had it in both hands, above the DB. The INT on the pass behind the receiver, where the receiver got a hand on it is not intercepted 95% of the time.
 
We had 29 running plays and 48 passing, 3 of those running plays were actually passing plays, 2 sacks and the fumbled snap. So that is 51 pass plays called and 26 rushes against the 104th rushing defense in the nation. Riley claimed he got away from running the ball because of the negative plays, only 2 of those were from running backs, the others were from jet sweeps. WHAT IN THE HELL IS AN INTERCEPTION IF NOT A NEGATIVE PLAY?

All 5 turnovers came on called pass plays, AGAINST THE WORSE RUSHING DEFENSE IN THE B1G!
The only talent gap we have against the teams we lost to is the gap between Riley's ears.
Did you look at how Purdue was lining up on defense. They showed 8 in the box consistently and we had a ton of negative run plays.
 
I only saw two bad picks. Hovey must catch the one pass. He had it in both hands, above the DB. The INT on the pass behind the receiver, where the receiver got a hand on it is not intercepted 95% of the time.
He threw badly behind the one receiver AND the ball to Hovey was under thrown. All of the picks wouldn't have happened with better throws. That said, his first start on the road with a below average O line. It happens.
 
The common theme from former players seems to be that changing a culture is not always a now thing. Fans seem to brush aside this as an excuse but the tone out of former players is definitely one more wary of the challenges and the implications of not all oars in the same direction.

The player base does generally recognize that in some situations it is indeed lightning in a bottle. Florida and Michigan being two examples although the context of the situations as recognized is generally more nuanced than message board fans would accept.

For example I don't think I've ever heard Frazier or zatechka accept that Riley could come in and do what harbaugh was doing without further consideration of the fact that it was a talent stacked roster with a ready built high level defense. I don't think they would concede the situations as at all equal.

I agree it takes time to change a culture, but do we really need talent stacked rosters with a ready built high level defense to be able to beat the likes of Illinois, Northwestern, and Purdue? Even Miami and Wisconsin. Those are not talent stacked rosters.

This is either a coaching staff that does not know what the roster is capable of, or are willfully ignoring it by trying to take Tommy and Fyfe and drop them back and beat teams passing.

It's hard. I think players can appreciate how hard it is to come in and coach a team to the expectations of the fans. I think they are naturally going to be a little more forgiving than the guy hiding behind his keyboard that may not understand this. But Riley and his guys are paid the big bucks to win games and keep fans happy. They are not doing that, and so far have not shown much promise that they are going to be able to live up to expectations. What we're watching is crappy football. It is Riley that is leading this team out on the field.
 
We had 29 running plays and 48 passing, 3 of those running plays were actually passing plays, 2 sacks and the fumbled snap. So that is 51 pass plays called and 26 rushes against the 104th rushing defense in the nation. Riley claimed he got away from running the ball because of the negative plays, only 2 of those were from running backs, the others were from jet sweeps. WHAT IN THE HELL IS AN INTERCEPTION IF NOT A NEGATIVE PLAY?

All 5 turnovers came on called pass plays, AGAINST THE WORSE RUSHING DEFENSE IN THE B1G!
The only talent gap we have against the teams we lost to is the gap between Riley's ears.
That is crazy that we didn't 100 yards against a team giving up twice as much. This makes no sense and his justification is crazy. You have a new quarterback that hasn't started all year and he throws the ball almost 50 times. A recipe for losing. I think he is a smart offensive minded guy but come on. The corner Brown on Purdue looked like Deion Sanders out there against us.
 
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