Houston Astros

nwualum

Sophomore
Feb 16, 2011
1,414
1,494
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Lincoln, NE
If they were caught cheating, I have absolutely no problem in vacating the World Series title. Take away draft picks. Lay the hammer down. Hopefully no NCAA committee members are working on this or they will be find $1000 or something like that.
 

dinglefritz

College Football Hall of Fame
Jan 14, 2011
23,651
16,996
113
Biggest cheaters in MLB history? Life-time bans coming? Take away their World Series crown?
Somebody cheated in MLB? NOOOOOO!!! Never!!!!. :rolleyes: Meh. I would be pissed if I thought my Twins weren't at least trying to use every means possible to steal signs, tip pitches whatever. It shouldn't be that hard to prevent teams from stealing your signs. What makes me laugh is when a recent major leaguer sitting in the booth calling a game with a monitor camera angle from behind the pitcher says "well he's throwing a curve ball' then the pitcher throws a 98 mph fast ball.
 
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schuele

Athletic Director
Apr 17, 2005
13,664
8,933
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The punishment should include Alex Bregman getting punched in the face. Just because.
 
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Swiv3D

Walk On
Dec 19, 2018
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Somebody cheated in MLB? NOOOOOO!!! Never!!!!. :rolleyes: Meh. I would be pissed if I thought my Twins weren't at least trying to use every means possible to steal signs, tip pitches whatever. It shouldn't be that hard to prevent teams from stealing your signs. What makes me laugh is when a recent major leaguer sitting in the booth calling a game with a monitor camera angle from behind the pitcher says "well he's throwing a curve ball' then the pitcher throws a 98 mph fast ball.
Do you think Joe Buck actually knows a thing about sports?
 
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leodisflowers

Graduate Assistant
Feb 25, 2011
5,293
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North Carolina
Somebody cheated in MLB? NOOOOOO!!! Never!!!!. :rolleyes: Meh. I would be pissed if I thought my Twins weren't at least trying to use every means possible to steal signs, tip pitches whatever. It shouldn't be that hard to prevent teams from stealing your signs. What makes me laugh is when a recent major leaguer sitting in the booth calling a game with a monitor camera angle from behind the pitcher says "well he's throwing a curve ball' then the pitcher throws a 98 mph fast ball.
Agreed. Also, even if they know a curve ball is coming, you still have to hit it. These guys are nasty and have 30 variations of their pitches. Different speeds, arms angles, etc..
 

dinglefritz

College Football Hall of Fame
Jan 14, 2011
23,651
16,996
113
Do you think Joe Buck actually knows a thing about sports?
Reread my post. I don't think Joe Buck was EVER a major league player and he certainly isn't recently retired. I was talking about Justin Morneau. It happens with other former player broadcasters too. See it all the time.
 

Huskerz99

Walk On
Oct 27, 2019
173
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Knowing what pitch is coming probably takes you from a 27 percent chance of getting a hit to probably close to 50 percent. Don’t care how good the pitchers are those hitters are just as good. So yes it’s a huge advantage.

Stealing signs from 2nd base or from a catcher/pitching coach is much different than stealing from recording the other team.
 

timnsun

Offensive Coordinator
Jan 25, 2008
9,457
10,792
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Agreed. Also, even if they know a curve ball is coming, you still have to hit it. These guys are nasty and have 30 variations of their pitches. Different speeds, arms angles, etc..
With so many variations of pitches that’s a lot to process in a split second when the pitch is coming. If you know what pitch is coming so much else is filtered out and hitting the pitch you are expecting is that much easier.

You’re right, they still have to hit it, but they don’t have to think as much while trying to hit it.
 

BigBL87

Blackshirt
Sep 11, 2006
3,321
605
113
With so many variations of pitches that’s a lot to process in a split second when the pitch is coming. If you know what pitch is coming so much else is filtered out and hitting the pitch you are expecting is that much easier.

You’re right, they still have to hit it, but they don’t have to think as much while trying to hit it.
Pretty much sums it up. Heck, when I played Pony League baseball, my dad would watch the other team's coaches and figure out what they were calling in to the pitcher. When "cheering," he'd call my first name for a fastball, last name for change up, and number for a breaking ball. It made it immensely easier to just worry about the break not the break and the speed. I wasn't that great, but I can only imagine if I was how much bigger of a difference it would make.

A coach or two caught on and had their pitcher hit me. When you're stealing signs like that, that's the remedy, in game stuff. Stealing signs from the bench or 2nd base is gamesmanship. When you're using video, wireless devices, and having staff work on it, that's a whole different beast.
 

leodisflowers

Graduate Assistant
Feb 25, 2011
5,293
2,735
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North Carolina
With so many variations of pitches that’s a lot to process in a split second when the pitch is coming. If you know what pitch is coming so much else is filtered out and hitting the pitch you are expecting is that much easier.

You’re right, they still have to hit it, but they don’t have to think as much while trying to hit it.
I don't disagree, but like I said, you still have to hit the pitch. It does make it easier, but it's still not just as simple as here comes a curve. Stealing signs is and will always be a thing. Pitchers can also have different tells that teams can jump on as well. It's more that calling it cheating is stupid to me.
 
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mgbreis

Senior
Dec 16, 2004
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Human nature cracks me up. Literally any action or behavior you could possibly describe, SOMEONE will excuse it or say its no big deal. The nice thing about baseball is that everyone involved unequivocally knows the line between what is acceptable (baserunners stealing signs) and what isn't (using cameras, etc). This isn't even a difficult question. Everyone has known for awhile the Astros cheat, that's why you've seen pitchers/catchers changing the signs even with the bases empty.
 

8th Street

Walk On
Dec 1, 2009
204
159
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I knew there was a reason I didn't like them . . . (other than beating the Yankees because that stupid ass Chapman couldn't throw a strike in the most important at-bat of the season . . .)
 

baseball31ne

Recruiting Coordinator
Mar 8, 2002
6,097
810
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Stealing signs with the electronics is a different thing than using your smarts to determine signs. If the electronic items are true, I’d be looking for a 1919 Black Sox type punishment but then they would mean the rules have meaning and I don’t think enough people know right from wrong anymore to matter. So likely a fine and some loss of draft picks.
 
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Top_Gun_

Junior
Feb 22, 2019
1,995
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That's my reaction as well. Didn't the Patriots do the same thing?
not even close.

filming practice (allegedly) well prior to a game versus actively monitoring opposing teams' signs (plays) during games, sometimes playoffs and even world series, and relaying them in real-time to players is quite a bit different. and considerably more insidious.

old fashioned sign stealing is fine. rigging electronics for the sole purpose of it should make all involved black sox-level pariahs.
 
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dinglefritz

College Football Hall of Fame
Jan 14, 2011
23,651
16,996
113
Stealing signs with the electronics is a different thing than using your smarts to determine signs. If the electronic items are true, I’d be looking for a 1919 Black Sox type punishment but then they would mean the rules have meaning and I don’t think enough people know right from wrong anymore to matter. So likely a fine and some loss of draft picks.
Every single team in the major leagues has a centerfield camera that can zoom in on the catcher. To think that every single team in the major leagues isn't at least trying to steal signs via an electronic device is just naive.
 

baseball31ne

Recruiting Coordinator
Mar 8, 2002
6,097
810
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Every single team in the major leagues has a centerfield camera that can zoom in on the catcher. To think that every single team in the major leagues isn't at least trying to steal signs via an electronic device is just naive.
Not being naive but does go to show the level of just win baby mentality that is seen as good today. Screw the rules, need the wins and the cash man.

I’m guessing multiple teams do something electronically and the Astros just got caught. Will see the punishment to get a read on if the other cheating teams went to help them or not. If the Astros will get slapped hard, my guess is if they know of other teams, they drop the dime on them too.
 
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mgbreis

Senior
Dec 16, 2004
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That's what I find interesting about this - are the Astros just the team that got caught? Why did it take so long for a former player like Mike Fiers to blow the whistle on this? The obvious answer is because every team is trying to do the same thing and none of them want players spilling the beans. I read some quotes from Fiers that he got fed up with seeing young pitchers getting lit up and that's why he ratted them out.
 
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dinglefritz

College Football Hall of Fame
Jan 14, 2011
23,651
16,996
113
Not being naive but does go to show the level of just win baby mentality that is seen as good today. Screw the rules, need the wins and the cash man.

I’m guessing multiple teams do something electronically and the Astros just got caught. Will see the punishment to get a read on if the other cheating teams went to help them or not. If the Astros will get slapped hard, my guess is if they know of other teams, they drop the dime on them too.
I would bet money that every single team in baseball has a staffer involved in this. It's still a "meh" for me.
 
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mkbrkloster

Junior
Jan 27, 2005
1,824
614
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Agreed. Also, even if they know a curve ball is coming, you still have to hit it. These guys are nasty and have 30 variations of their pitches. Different speeds, arms angles, etc..
But giving them the single biggest unknown, by a huge margin, is kind of helpful.
 

Charlie Marlow

Assistant Head Coach
Sep 23, 2005
9,892
5,683
113
In Your Head
The reason that everyone involved in baseball unequivocally knows the line between what is acceptable (baserunners stealing signs) and what isn't (using cameras, etc) is because the commissioner himself addressed this issue two years ago. It is not meh in their eyes and the Asstros can expect harsh consequences for this. And no, I really don't think every team is doing this at all. There is a reason that Houston specifically kept being brought up. Everybody knew they were doing it and now they have will have to deal with the consequences.
 

Charlie Marlow

Assistant Head Coach
Sep 23, 2005
9,892
5,683
113
In Your Head
MLB suspends the manager and GM of the Astros for a year. They promptly get fired.

Alex Cora heavily implicated and will be next to be punished. Severely
 

mgbreis

Senior
Dec 16, 2004
2,391
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There's some really good videos on Youtube showing exactly what they were doing. To me, it was a HUGE advantage simply because they knew when a fastball was coming. Can't wait to see what Cora gets. He arguably was involved in cheating to win 2 titles.
 

kaz36

Administrator
Moderator
May 2, 2005
27,978
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There's some really good videos on Youtube showing exactly what they were doing. To me, it was a HUGE advantage simply because they knew when a fastball was coming. Can't wait to see what Cora gets. He arguably was involved in cheating to win 2 titles.
I believe that Cora was the main person behind the cheating in Houston and then took it with him to Boston. Wouldn’t be surprised if Cora gets a multi year suspension or even a lifetime ban. Beltran was also involved.
 
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Swiv3D

Walk On
Dec 19, 2018
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There's some really good videos on Youtube showing exactly what they were doing. To me, it was a HUGE advantage simply because they knew when a fastball was coming. Can't wait to see what Cora gets. He arguably was involved in cheating to win 2 titles.
That Altuve walk off became insanely unimpressive and disappointing once all of this came out. With all of the analytical data crunching that goes on in pro baseball, knowing tendencies of pitchers velocity changes and ball placements of different pitch types, cheating this way makes it sooooo easy for a major league level batter. the Astros deserve the worst possible scenario in terms of a punishment.
 

Charlie Marlow

Assistant Head Coach
Sep 23, 2005
9,892
5,683
113
In Your Head
Astros also fined $5 million dollars and lost first and second round draft picks.

Would not surprise me to see a lifetime ban for Cora

Beltran escapes punishment since the MLB is declining to discipline the players involved.
 

cubsker

Head Coach
May 29, 2003
11,861
6,477
113
Still feel like they got off light. 5 mil is nothing. A gm and manager change is disruptive, but happens all the time. 4 draft picks....meh.

I would have fined them all of their postseason money from 2017 and cut their international spending money a bunch.
 
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HCHTown

Walk On
Oct 21, 2012
137
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The Astros did this at home. In the recent World Series they had the home field advantage and the only three games they won were in DC.
 

resdog851

Blackshirt
Dec 30, 2003
3,276
1,308
113
Papillion, Nebraska
Agreed. Also, even if they know a curve ball is coming, you still have to hit it. These guys are nasty and have 30 variations of their pitches. Different speeds, arms angles, etc..
This is a very weak argument in my opinion. If you know a curve is coming, you have narrowed down your choices considerably on what you need to look for. This is like the late in his career Barry Bonds argument where people argued that you still need to swing the bat and hit the ball argument. Bonds was a gifted batter that was a pretty good athlete prior to roiding to the gills. His batting IQ evolved a ton from when he was a Pirate and his physical prowess did too when he started roiding like a bodybuilder. His bat speed was better as a 37 year old than when he was an idiot 21 year old because of his roid habit. Combine that with actual batting knowledge and he was lethal. Like 73 homers lethal....but it didn't help him hit a curveball at all. Ok. Whatever you say.
 

leodisflowers

Graduate Assistant
Feb 25, 2011
5,293
2,735
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North Carolina
This is a very weak argument in my opinion. If you know a curve is coming, you have narrowed down your choices considerably on what you need to look for. This is like the late in his career Barry Bonds argument where people argued that you still need to swing the bat and hit the ball argument. Bonds was a gifted batter that was a pretty good athlete prior to roiding to the gills. His batting IQ evolved a ton from when he was a Pirate and his physical prowess did too when he started roiding like a bodybuilder. His bat speed was better as a 37 year old than when he was an idiot 21 year old because of his roid habit. Combine that with actual batting knowledge and he was lethal. Like 73 homers lethal....but it didn't help him hit a curveball at all. Ok. Whatever you say.
You're entitled to your opinion, and yes I agree there can be some advantage especially with the great hitters, but you still have to hit the ball. Also, baseball teams have been stealing signs and things for years. It's getting more sophisticated as we evolve in technology, but who really cares? We want to be fake outraged and act like this is a big deal but it's not. Teams are going to continue to find an edge somehow by stealing signs.
 
Jun 20, 2001
2,389
4,314
113
The title was illegitimate and should be vacated.

This wasn't one guy cheating with a corked bat or a pitcher trying to get an edge scuffing the ball and getting tossed. This involved a TEAM cheating.

I'm not a Pete Rose fan or apologist, but if that guy gets a lifetime ban for betting on the game while managing, lifetime bans are in order here for rigging the game.