Good Article on DC Butler

[Tuco Salamanca]

the discussion we're currently having on whether Butler will be an improvement, the same, or he was the reason the defense went from 47th in opponent completion % in 2023 to 107th in 2024, or from 37th in total passing defense in 2023 to 64th in 2024.

It is impossible to determine if Butler will be an improvement or not in the summer. White called the defense last year. You can try and blame Butler for the passing defense if you want, but he coached DBs, he didn't make the calls. Sacks per game declined from 2023 to 2024, was it a lack of blitzes or was it because the front didn't get pressure and left the DBs covering for longer?

Rush yards per attempt went up nearly half a yard from 2023 to 2024, was this because the DL didn't get off blocks? LBs not in the right fit? DBs playing more man with their back to the play? Over agressive Rover and LBs?

Big Plays, 10 yards or more, went up from 190 to 240 - Pays for 20+ yards went up from 64 to 84. Was this because of Butler's influence? Did White call more blitzes? Did Nebraska get caught in man coverage? Did the LBs miss their run gaps?

It is simple to blame Butler's arrival and then later Snow taking the analyst position. I think White's defense was predictable at times, conservative at times, and there were times when White did not or was not able to adjust to the opponent's adjustments.
Boston College -6 after the half
Iowa -13 after the half
USC - 8 after the half
Indiana the whole game
Illinois -14 after the half
Then the win against Colorado -10 after the half.

Not all of that was on the defense, the offense went way to conservative as well. especially Colorado, Iowa and BC.

 

[Tuco Salamanca]

Lots of fans fall into the "no this guy is different he actually just wants to work as a coordinator here forever" trap of thinking.

If Butler puts together a top 10 defense en route to a 10+ win season he'll be gone by January.

Based on what?

 

[Big bo fan]

It is impossible to determine if Butler will be an improvement or not in the summer. White called the defense last year. You can try and blame Butler for the passing defense if you want, but he coached DBs, he didn't make the calls. Sacks per game declined from 2023 to 2024, was it a lack of blitzes or was it because the front didn't get pressure and left the DBs covering for longer?

Rush yards per attempt went up nearly half a yard from 2023 to 2024, was this because the DL didn't get off blocks? LBs not in the right fit? DBs playing more man with their back to the play? Over agressive Rover and LBs?

Big Plays, 10 yards or more, went up from 190 to 240 - Pays for 20+ yards went up from 64 to 84. Was this because of Butler's influence? Did White call more blitzes? Did Nebraska get caught in man coverage? Did the LBs miss their run gaps?

It is simple to blame Butler's arrival and then later Snow taking the analyst position. I think White's defense was predictable at times, conservative at times, and there were times when White did not or was not able to adjust to the opponent's adjustments.
Boston College -6 after the half
Iowa -13 after the half
USC - 8 after the half
Indiana the whole game
Illinois -14 after the half
Then the win against Colorado -10 after the half.

Not all of that was on the defense, the offense went way to conservative as well. especially Colorado, Iowa and BC.

That’s what people don’t understand. The DC calls the defense the position coaches don’t. When Nebraska was on top the front 4 were dominant. You had guys like The Peter brothers Grant Winstrom etc . They controlled the running game and put enough pressure on the Qb that hurried them . Anyone knows the best Pass Defense is a good pass Rush .

 

[PeliniTheCrutch]

That’s what people don’t understand. The DC calls the defense the position coaches don’t. When Nebraska was on top the front 4 were dominant. You had guys like The Peter brothers Grant Winstrom etc . They controlled the running game and put enough pressure on the Qb that hurried them . Anyone knows the best Pass Defense is a good pass Rush .

Tell me more about this Winstrom fella.

 

[huskerj12]

Tell me more about this Winstrom fella.

you winstrom you lose some

 

[Big bo fan]

Tell me more about this Winstrom fella.

Sorry I was driving and typing.

 

[HuskerAlum92]

Either way I agree the OC/ST will be true upgrades. As far as the DC position I'm still not ready to call it a wash yet. Of course it's just opinion but right now until I see a bit more I'd call it a downgrade.

WR coach will also be a true upgrade.

 

[TFrazier]

Sorry I was driving and typing.

 

[huskerj12]

WR coach will also be a true upgrade.

seemingly a gigantic upgrade. I still can't believe we had McGuire in that spot, regardless of whether he was a supposed "wiz kid/future HC type" which I never really saw any evidence of.

 

[thall_]

It is impossible to determine if Butler will be an improvement or not in the summer. White called the defense last year. You can try and blame Butler for the passing defense if you want, but he coached DBs, he didn't make the calls. Sacks per game declined from 2023 to 2024, was it a lack of blitzes or was it because the front didn't get pressure and left the DBs covering for longer?

Rush yards per attempt went up nearly half a yard from 2023 to 2024, was this because the DL didn't get off blocks? LBs not in the right fit? DBs playing more man with their back to the play? Over agressive Rover and LBs?

Big Plays, 10 yards or more, went up from 190 to 240 - Pays for 20+ yards went up from 64 to 84. Was this because of Butler's influence? Did White call more blitzes? Did Nebraska get caught in man coverage? Did the LBs miss their run gaps?

It is simple to blame Butler's arrival and then later Snow taking the analyst position. I think White's defense was predictable at times, conservative at times, and there were times when White did not or was not able to adjust to the opponent's adjustments.
Boston College -6 after the half
Iowa -13 after the half
USC - 8 after the half
Indiana the whole game
Illinois -14 after the half
Then the win against Colorado -10 after the half.

Not all of that was on the defense, the offense went way to conservative as well. especially Colorado, Iowa and BC.

Interesting how you went from not understanding the discussion/controversy to typing a whole essay about it. You're arguing with yourself, I'm keeping an open mind until I see what the defense looks like under his tutelage.

Based on what?

stupid posts by stupid people. like this one:

White has only been a DC for 3 years plus a bowl game. If I were a betting man I would say he will be here 4-5 before leaving for a HC position.

 

[Tuco Salamanca]

Interesting how you went from not understanding the discussion/controversy to typing a whole essay about it. You're arguing with yourself, I'm keeping an open mind until I see what the defense looks like under his tutelage.

stupid posts by stupid people.

What are you basing Butler leaving after a year on?

The rest I’ll address when I get home, I am about to get in the car

 

[TFrazier]

What are you basing Butler leaving after a year on?

The rest I’ll address when I get home, I am about to get in the car

Thanks for not driving and posting. 👍

 

[kakdawg]

WR coach will also be a true upgrade.

Facts


Holla

 

[Huskers123456]

It is impossible to determine if Butler will be an improvement or not in the summer. White called the defense last year. You can try and blame Butler for the passing defense if you want, but he coached DBs, he didn't make the calls. Sacks per game declined from 2023 to 2024, was it a lack of blitzes or was it because the front didn't get pressure and left the DBs covering for longer?

Rush yards per attempt went up nearly half a yard from 2023 to 2024, was this because the DL didn't get off blocks? LBs not in the right fit? DBs playing more man with their back to the play? Over agressive Rover and LBs?

Big Plays, 10 yards or more, went up from 190 to 240 - Pays for 20+ yards went up from 64 to 84. Was this because of Butler's influence? Did White call more blitzes? Did Nebraska get caught in man coverage? Did the LBs miss their run gaps?

It is simple to blame Butler's arrival and then later Snow taking the analyst position. I think White's defense was predictable at times, conservative at times, and there were times when White did not or was not able to adjust to the opponent's adjustments.
Boston College -6 after the half
Iowa -13 after the half
USC - 8 after the half
Indiana the whole game
Illinois -14 after the half
Then the win against Colorado -10 after the half.

Not all of that was on the defense, the offense went way to conservative as well. especially Colorado, Iowa and BC.

I dont think people are concerned about Butler because of how his group performed last year. They are concerned about the fact that he was a DC, spent the next decade begging for another DC job, and ended up going from the NFL as a db coach to a college db coach, after once again getting passed over for a DC job.

Hopefully I'm very wrong, but nothing about this guy screams elite defensive coordinator.

 

[kakdawg]

Ok, perhaps wrong wording, using subjective. My point is that being the best unit on a team doesn't make the unit good. There were things that needed to be addressed both offensively and defensively so he brought in Holgersen and Snow. Snow had already turned down the job to be DC before White was hired, if he wanted the DC job he would have taken it then.

If White was threatened by Snow, that is on him. I have no reason to believe Butler was hired as a DC in waiting. So that is speculation, do I think Butler wanted to be a DC, yes but I have no reason to believe White was going anywhere when Butler was hired.

Lotta speculation that we are both doing. I can't say for sure that Butler was brought in to be a DC in waiting. But I don't think anyone can for sure say he wasn't.

I know Snow is who Rhule initially wanted and I would've been pleased had that been the case. In fact the only reason I'm just "ok" with Butler being the DC is because Snow IS here in his role. I also will say that having the DB coach with DC experience is also a huge plus. I think they or Rhule surrounded him with some pretty goof defensive guys who have more experience than he does as a DC.

Being honest I never thought Butler was the best hire we could make as a DC. The guy at SMU imo was a much better candidate. I don't think we hired the "best" guy we could and that actually bothers me. Now all that said it could work out just fine. Hopefully that's the case because I could be wrong but when Butler was hired I stated HCMR bet his coaching job on Butler. If it's a failure I'm not sure he gets another chance to hire a 3rd DC.

I hope it all works out because I absolutely am a Rhule "guy". I love what he stands for and the direction I think the program is going in. Just wish he would've taken the best available guy (jmo of course). Here's hoping I'm proven to be a dim wit worried about nothing. Watching us go on to a 9 or 10 win season lol.



Holla

 

[Mrs.Jeans15]

I heard we are going to a traditional nickel instead of a rover.

 

[thall_]

Lotta speculation that we are both doing. I can't say for sure that Butler was brought in to be a DC in waiting. But I don't think anyone can for sure say he wasn't.

I know Snow is who Rhule initially wanted and I would've been pleased had that been the case. In fact the only reason I'm just "ok" with Butler being the DC is because Snow IS here in his role. I also will say that having the DB coach with DC experience is also a huge plus. I think they or Rhule surrounded him with some pretty goof defensive guys who have more experience than he does as a DC.

Being honest I never thought Butler was the best hire we could make as a DC. The guy at SMU imo was a much better candidate. I don't think we hired the "best" guy we could and that actually bothers me. Now all that said it could work out just fine. Hopefully that's the case because I could be wrong but when Butler was hired I stated HCMR bet his coaching job on Butler. If it's a failure I'm not sure he gets another chance to hire a 3rd DC.

I hope it all works out because I absolutely am a Rhule "guy". I love what he stands for and the direction I think the program is going in. Just wish he would've taken the best available guy (jmo of course). Here's hoping I'm proven to be a dim wit worried about nothing. Watching us go on to a 9 or 10 win season lol.



Holla

Agree with this 100%

I have coped my way into believing Butler was made DC in the name of continuity and faith that the defense wouldn’t be completely retooled

 

[inWV]

I heard we are going to a traditional nickel instead of a river.

They've been telling us what they plan to do for some time. Phil Snow - “We’re going to employ all that stuff on first and second down and we’re going to hope to advance the third-down package (to be) a little bit more like the NFL,” Snow said last month. “We’ll advance the third-down package, but we’re taking a lot of what Tony did because it’s highly successful and it creates chaos for the offense.”
I translate that to mean they are generally satisfied with the 3-3-5 and like a lot of the stuff White used. They want a better batting average on third down. Having 3 dudes with experience as both DB coaches and DCs ups the probability of success.
As for Rover vs. Nickel, they certainly haven't gone out of their way to talk about who will be in the Rover position.

 

[Tuco Salamanca]

I dont think people are concerned about Butler because of how his group performed last year. They are concerned about the fact that he was a DC, spent the next decade begging for another DC job, and ended up going from the NFL as a db coach to a college db coach, after once again getting passed over for a DC job.

Hopefully I'm very wrong, but nothing about this guy screams elite defensive coordinator.

How did his group perform last year?

I am not sure he was begging for a DC job for a decade is accurate. O'Brien brought him from Penn St to the Texans as a DB coach under Romeo Crennel even though he was the DC at Penn St. In order to keep his job as GM and HC O'Brien had to make some changes and let a few coaches go, Butler being one of them, he caught on quickly at Buffalo and was there for like 6 years. He was passed over 2 times in Buffalo, really only once because in 2022 when Leslie Frazier left McDermott took over as DC, then after 2023 they hired Babich rather than Butler that was when he quit and took the few months off before Rhule hired him.

 

[Huskers123456]

How did his group perform last year?

I am not sure he was begging for a DC job for a decade is accurate. O'Brien brought him from Penn St to the Texans as a DB coach under Romeo Crennel even though he was the DC at Penn St. In order to keep his job as GM and HC O'Brien had to make some changes and let a few coaches go, Butler being one of them, he caught on quickly at Buffalo and was there for like 6 years. He was passed over 2 times in Buffalo, really only once because in 2022 when Leslie Frazier left McDermott took over as DC, then after 2023 they hired Babich rather than Butler that was when he quit and took the few months off before Rhule hired him.

Not good, IMO.

 

[Tuco Salamanca]

Not good, IMO.

Give me an example of something that was 100% on the secondary.

 

[Huskers123456]

Give me an example of something that was 100% on the secondary.

Hartzog getting beat time and time again? Singleton regressing?

What was one positive in the secondary? Wright sitting until they were finally forced to play him, and then showing he was the best player?

 

[Walleye79]

Hartzog getting beat time and time again? Singleton regressing?

What was one positive in the secondary? Wright sitting until they were finally forced to play him, and then showing he was the best player?

Way too many moving parts with timing and time he was announced as secondary coach. As well as Tony white influence on the defense coupled with a defense that really struggled rushing the QB. He may or may not work out. He has his shot to prove it. Wasn’t the Bills Secondary pretty good with him as head coach? It will be interesting to see how it all plays out

 

[Tuco Salamanca]

Hartzog getting beat time and time again? Singleton regressing?

What was one positive in the secondary? Wright sitting until they were finally forced to play him, and then showing he was the best player?

What does regressing mean in this case? Was he asked to do the same things in both years? Did White make adjustments? Did Singleton have different reads and assignments? Same could be asked of Hartzog, who was playing safety in 2024 rather than corner/nickel that he played in 2023. Buford was starting at one corner and Hill at the other for the first 4 games. Hill was considered a potential high round draft pick to start the season and was playing well. He had the pick 6 against Colorado then was hurt either before or during the Illinois game, don't remember which. At which point Wright took over. You seem to be comparing what Wright did to what a dude playing on one foot couldn't or didn't do. If Hill doesn't get injured is Wright still the "best player"? Do we even know who he is? Seems to be a lot of generalizations and nothing really specific.

 

[king_kong_]

Hartzog getting beat time and time again? Singleton regressing?

What was one positive in the secondary? Wright sitting until they were finally forced to play him, and then showing he was the best player?

Hartzog was forced to play out of position because we have no depth/development

You didnt even mention Gifford

 

[kakdawg]

Hartzog getting beat time and time again? Singleton regressing?

What was one positive in the secondary? Wright sitting until they were finally forced to play him, and then showing he was the best player?

That Wright shit was perplexing to me. I'm not even sure it was a Butler thing though. He showed up very late. I believe it was in June but still. How does a guy come in off the bench after starter is hurt and immediately is the best DB of the field and its not even close?

What were they watching before to not see this? I don't really "blame" Butler for that but man. We have watched Buford, Hartzog, Gifford, Singleton get beat repeatedly for about 3 years. It's frustrating or at least was seeing them run the same guys out there . As fans we assume it's the best we have. Yet when we see a Wright come in he shines. We see Donovan Jones in the bowl game he shines. Is it possible our coaches are playing these guys more because of "comfort" or they will likely make the least mistakes? Not because they are better or more talented?

I understand you have to be comfortable with who you are playing but when u have guys with higher upside coach em up and give em shots. Idk I know it's a fine line but imo if you are genuine about wanting to beat the PSUs, Oregon, Michigan's of the country you don't run those guys back out there "just cause". Being honest I hated when those guys said they were coming back for another year. I also was on record saying if this is the best we can do in the secondary I'm not very high on the ceiling of these guys . Seem to be great guys and teammates but average football players. You aren't beating great teams with that level of guys imp.



Holla

 

[king_kong_]

That Wright shit was perplexing to me. I'm not even sure it was a Butler thing though. He showed up very late. I believe it was in June but still. How does a guy come in off the bench after starter is hurt and immediately is the best DB of the field and its not even close?

What were they watching before to not see this? I don't really "blame" Butler for that but man. We have watched Buford, Hartzog, Gifford, Singleton get beat repeatedly for about 3 years. It's frustrating or at least was seeing them run the same guys out there . As fans we assume it's the best we have. Yet when we see a Wright come in he shines. We see Donovan Jones in the bowl game he shines. Is it possible our coaches are playing these guys more because of "comfort" or they will likely make the least mistakes? Not because they are better or more talented?

I understand you have to be comfortable with who you are playing but when u have guys with higher upside coach em up and give em shots. Idk I know it's a fine line but imo if you are genuine about wanting to beat the PSUs, Oregon, Michigan's of the country you don't run those guys back out there "just cause". Being honest I hated when those guys said they were coming back for another year. I also was on record saying if this is the best we can do in the secondary I'm not very high on the ceiling of these guys . Seem to be great guys and teammates but average football players. You aren't beating great teams with that level of guys imp.



Holla

Our head coach is way too concerned with feelings

This stuff stems from that “culture” IMO

 

[Mrs.Jeans15]

Buford never should have been at corner.

 

[inWV]

That Wright shit was perplexing to me. I'm not even sure it was a Butler thing though. He showed up very late. I believe it was in June but still. How does a guy come in off the bench after starter is hurt and immediately is the best DB of the field and its not even close?

What were they watching before to not see this? I don't really "blame" Butler for that but man. We have watched Buford, Hartzog, Gifford, Singleton get beat repeatedly for about 3 years. It's frustrating or at least was seeing them run the same guys out there . As fans we assume it's the best we have. Yet when we see a Wright come in he shines. We see Donovan Jones in the bowl game he shines. Is it possible our coaches are playing these guys more because of "comfort" or they will likely make the least mistakes? Not because they are better or more talented?

I understand you have to be comfortable with who you are playing but when u have guys with higher upside coach em up and give em shots. Idk I know it's a fine line but imo if you are genuine about wanting to beat the PSUs, Oregon, Michigan's of the country you don't run those guys back out there "just cause". Being honest I hated when those guys said they were coming back for another year. I also was on record saying if this is the best we can do in the secondary I'm not very high on the ceiling of these guys . Seem to be great guys and teammates but average football players. You aren't beating great teams with that level of guys imp.



Holla

I look at it this way. Those guys coming back and playing the positions they are best suited for is the ideal situation. If a couple of guys are ready to play corner along with Ceyair Wright, the Hartzog, Buford and Singleton trio will be playing the saftey spots, plus whatever comes out of the nickel/rover position. The younger guys that are ready will be in a rotation, with the better ones of that group increasing their opportunities.
We rag on Hartzog, but we were lucky that kid was on the roster in 2022, because Busch was having a hard time finding a corner opposite Q, and bumped Malcom up from special teams. We were playing him and the kid who transferred from UCF. Buford is adequate at saftey, not so much at corner. But he ended up there again after Blye Hill got hurt and no one else emerged to get reps. Hartzog was playing there a bit last year as well. Singleton took a bit of the season to come back fully from his knee injury.
The only thing worse than an older guy who gets beat a ittle more than we'd like is a younger guy who isn't ready, and gets picked on all game and then roasted when the opposing QB sees the opportunity.

 

[king_kong_]

I look at it this way. Those guys coming back and playing the positions they are best suited for is the ideal situation. If a couple of guys are ready to play corner along with Ceyair Wright, the Hartzog, Buford and Singleton trio will be playing the saftey spots, plus whatever comes out of the nickel/rover position. The younger guys that are ready will be in a rotation, with the better ones of that group increasing their opportunities.
We rag on Hartzog, but we were lucky that kid was on the roster in 2022, because Busch was having a hard time finding a corner opposite Q, and bumped Malcom up from special teams. We were playing him and the kid who transferred from UCF. Buford is adequate at saftey, not so much at corner. But he ended up there again after Blye Hill got hurt and no one else emerged to get reps. Hartzog was playing there a bit last year as well. Singleton took a bit of the season to come back fully from his knee injury.
The only thing worse than an older guy who gets beat a ittle more than we'd like is a younger guy who isn't ready, and gets picked on all game and then roasted when the opposing QB sees the opportunity.

believe they already said Hartzog will be playing inside (nickel) this year

which is where he is best suited

I expect him to continue his ball-hawking ways and think he was an easy scapegoat last year for bigger problems (zero depth/development)

 

[kakdawg]

I look at it this way. Those guys coming back and playing the positions they are best suited for is the ideal situation. If a couple of guys are ready to play corner along with Ceyair Wright, the Hartzog, Buford and Singleton trio will be playing the saftey spots, plus whatever comes out of the nickel/rover position. The younger guys that are ready will be in a rotation, with the better ones of that group increasing their opportunities.
We rag on Hartzog, but we were lucky that kid was on the roster in 2022, because Busch was having a hard time finding a corner opposite Q, and bumped Malcom up from special teams. We were playing him and the kid who transferred from UCF. Buford is adequate at saftey, not so much at corner. But he ended up there again after Blye Hill got hurt and no one else emerged to get reps. Hartzog was playing there a bit last year as well. Singleton took a bit of the season to come back fully from his knee injury.
The only thing worse than an older guy who gets beat a ittle more than we'd like is a younger guy who isn't ready, and gets picked on all game and then roasted when the opposing QB sees the opportunity.

Yeah we see it completely different. Give me the young guy who has an upside and is likely to improve and be a better player because of his struggles over a finished product who has struggled for the better part of three years and is gone in one in a year anyways .

Outside of Singleton for a spell before he was hurt a couple years back I haven't seen anything from those guys that would suggest they are what we need at DB. Hoping like hell Marshall has spot opposite Wright myself.

At what point did you watch any of those guys play and say to yourself "that's what we need to counteract OSU, Michigan, Oregon, and Penn St"?


Again I understand experience but at what part does it simply stunt another guys chance to grow and become better? Look I'm not a coach so maybe it's the best we have. If it is my expectations have taken a hit if I'm being honest. I've seen enough from D Jones in one game to like him better than Malcolm and Buford. He's just an example of a guy who who would get markedly better with consistent PT. But we may have to wait till one of those guys gets hurt OR picked on with jump balls about 3 games in a row before the change. Again to each his own we all have our own opinions on these things.



Hollla

 

[inWV]

Yeah we see it completely different. Give me the young guy who has an upside and is likely to improve and be a better player because of his struggles over a finished product who has struggled for the better part of three years and is gone in one in a year anyways .

Outside of Singleton for a spell before he was hurt a couple years back I haven't seen anything from those guys that would suggest they are what we need at DB. Hoping like hell Marshall has spot opposite Wright myself.

At what point did you watch any of those guys play and say to yourself "that's what we need to counteract OSU, Michigan, Oregon, and Penn St"?


Again I understand experience but at what part does it simply stunt another guys chance to grow and become better? Look I'm not a coach so maybe it's the best we have. If it is my expectations have taken a hit if I'm being honest. I've seen enough from D Jones in one game to like him better than Malcolm and Buford. He's just an example of a guy who who would get markedly better with consistent PT. But we may have to wait till one of those guys gets hurt OR picked on with jump balls about 3 games in a row before the change. Again to each his own we all have our own opinions on these things.



Hollla

I do not presume that I know more than the coaches when it comes to who is ready to play and who is ready to get more reps. Sure the Jones kid will get better with reps and he may play quite a bit. I assume every scrimmage rep gets a grade and every game rep gets a grade. They don't cheat the kids in terms of reps in practice. There will plenty of opportunities for Jones, Marshall, Blye Hill et al. to show that they are ready to start. And if there are kids that are ready (not enough were last year), you might find the leash for bad play is a lot shorter.
There is a lot of pressure on these coaches in terms of increasing the win number. The offense should be more helpful this season. But there isn't a lot of margin for error when it comes to league play. Coaches are just going to be prone to playing the veterans. The coaches know what they can do and they know their limitations. They do not know that with the same confidence with the younger guys. Usually when a younger guy starts over a more established veteran, it is clear that he has taken the spot.