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Future of Big XII-No this isn't a Nebraska should go back thread.

GBR_Atlanta

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Mar 9, 2015
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I was listening to a little Sharp and Benning this morning and caught the end of a cool conversation regarding the future of specific teams in the Big XII, especially K-State and Iowa State. Is it too late for schools like this to be competitive again? ISU has some new facilities...but it is flat out too late for them? Benning mentioned that he thinks the door to be competitive with the rest of the conference has closed for K-State, but I'm not sure I agree. Until this OU beatdown they've been pretty competitive...I think? What do these schools need to do to get back in the mix?

Anyway, not Husker related but thought it would be good Monday conversation. Hope all had a good weekend.
 
Every conference has several teams that will never really be competitive, every single one. KSU has been an overachiever it's entire life and what Snyder has done is nothing short of arguably the best coaching job ever. ISU will always be ISU. Not really a story or worth a segment IMO, but when you have to fill radio time in Omaha the topics start to get kind of lean so I get it.
 
If the Big XII adds another Texas school (Houston), does make an even bigger disadvantage?
 
Interesting topic!

Here's my two cents.

They can be competitive, however it takes a bunch of things coming together all at the same time. And even if all of the factors did happen at the same time, they still may not be good enough to win their conference. I don't think it can be an every year at the top of the league, but alternating 2 year runs seems pretty possible.

Both teams seem to be at their best when they get a nice run of local talent, get it developed, and supplement it with JUCO contributors. That has been Snyder's deal for his entire career. That is the recipe for success. I think there are enough kids in the midwest who can play D1 football by the time they are RS Sophs, especially on the lines. Really talented skill players are around too, and sometimes they end up at Iowa State (Lazard is a great player and I wish he was at Nebraska). JUCOs can be tricky and you never know what you're going to get, but there is no question there is talent in the Jayhawk Conference (20 Kansas JUCOs that churn out D1 players every year).

Note: it also helps to have really-really good QBs (Bishop - Roberson - Klein - Wallace - Rosenfels)
Note 2: This isn't all that dissimilar from Nebraska. The biggest difference being Nebraska still has pull over these schools and should be able to attract a higher level of local talent, and Nebraska has shown the ability to pull a few highly rated guys out of California, Texas, and Florida, which obviously helps too.
 
Once Snyder retires, K-State goes back to being K-State. That may happen soon. Kittie fans think their stadium is one of the best but they have blinders on. ISU has never really been competitive and should enjoy Conference USA.
 
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kind of depends on what happens again with the playoff selections.. if it goes to the 4 conferences with championship games, then there will be a renewed push to get that league to 12 teams again. It could go the other way and fall apart, but I don't think it will. They will add a couple somehow.
 
KSU will fall behind fast once Snyder leaves. KU will get in front of them in 10 years IMO.

KSU to be competitive has to join the mountain west. The window is shut, their facilities are nice now, but nothing spectacular. They won't get a big name hire at all at KSU. They will hire some coordinator.

ISU to be competitive should join the American. They fit the profile of Cincinnati, Memphis, East Carolina etc.
 
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The Big XII is on it's last leg schools like KSU and ISU will be needing a new home soon. It's going to be interesting to see what happens with Oklahoma, Texas, and Kansas. Two or three will leave and the walls of Jericho will fall in.
 
I know as jilted lovers we want them to fail so we can say "I told you so", but they aren't going anywhere. If the Big 12 implodes I will be the first to admit I was wrong, but people have been saying it was going to happen for years and years now, yet here they are. The B1g 12 has a ton of great schools in it with a great geography to boot. I simply don't understand why so many Husker fans think it's going to just go away.
 
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I would love for a couple of them to join us. I don't even care who, honestly. Oklahoma would be the best obviously, but it would be fun to play any of them on a regular basis again.
 
With ISU's new facilities and stadium additions, I'm wondering if they are finally going to spend the money and go out and get a coach. If ISU were to pick up Chad Morris from SMU it could be a good fit. Good coach, ISU is already built for a spread offense, and Morris has deep ties in Texas HS football. One of my buddies actually played for him at Lake Travis.
 
BUY and Houston will join the Big XII. Houston's problem was that it was a commuter school with a nasty stadium. They upgraded quite a bit and usually sell out. BUY has to get past the Sunday thing with the Big XII but I imagine that gets worked out. If Texas and OU want to make the Big XII work they can...it will never be what it was, however.
 
The Big XII is on it's last leg schools like KSU and ISU will be needing a new home soon. It's going to be interesting to see what happens with Oklahoma, Texas, and Kansas. Two or three will leave and the walls of Jericho will fall in.
I would love to see oklahoma or Texas join the Big10. I don't know if I honestly see it happening, but would be great to have those rivalries back.
 
Depends on the measure. OU has more National Merit Finalists than anyone in the nation. They treat those folks like they treat football players.
 
I would love to see oklahoma or Texas join the Big10. I don't know if I honestly see it happening, but would be great to have those rivalries back.

The Big Ten will add schools again and I believe it's sooner then we think. Do not for get the network in Austin and how much the other members on the Big XII hate it. The Big XII is and has been on life support for years. Adding additional old SWC schools will not help.
 
Every conference has several teams that will never really be competitive, every single one. KSU has been an overachiever it's entire life and what Snyder has done is nothing short of arguably the best coaching job ever. ISU will always be ISU. Not really a story or worth a segment IMO, but when you have to fill radio time in Omaha the topics start to get kind of lean so I get it.

I do not agree with that...identifying and hiring a good coach can build any program. Look at teams like Utah that had Urban Meyer...you don't think if Urban went to Iowa State instead of Utah that he wouldn't have built Iowa State into a winner? Of course he would--he turns every school into a winner. Just like he turned Bowling Green and Utah into winners before turning around programs like Florida and Ohio State.

Lets take the SEC for example. Mississippi State has always been awful-they get Dan Mullen and they are respectable. In the East..Vandy has been terrible as long as I can remember and Kentucky has been awful more often than not. Vandy hired James Franklin and he turned that into a good program. Kentucky hired Mark Stoops and he is building them into a pretty good team.

As you mentioned, K State--under Bill Snyder they have been good more than they have been bad...and they were one of the worse teams in football before he built that program. Kansas has usually been awful, Mangino had success at that program. Leach at Texas Tech. Briles at Baylor. Patterson at TCU. Spurrier at Florida and South Carolina. There are plenty of examples of how a good head coach can turn a program around.
 
I do not agree with that...identifying and hiring a good coach can build any program. Look at teams like Utah that had Urban Meyer...you don't think if Urban went to Iowa State instead of Utah that he wouldn't have built Iowa State into a winner? Of course he would--he turns every school into a winner. Just like he turned Bowling Green and Utah into winners before turning around programs like Florida and Ohio State.

Lets take the SEC for example. Mississippi State has always been awful-they get Dan Mullen and they are respectable. In the East..Vandy has been terrible as long as I can remember and Kentucky has been awful more often than not. Vandy hired James Franklin and he turned that into a good program. Kentucky hired Mark Stoops and he is building them into a pretty good team.

As you mentioned, K State--under Bill Snyder they have been good more than they have been bad...and they were one of the worse teams in football before he built that program. Kansas has usually been awful, Mangino had success at that program. Leach at Texas Tech. Briles at Baylor. Patterson at TCU. Spurrier at Florida and South Carolina. There are plenty of examples of how a good head coach can turn a program around.


People love to bring up exceptions when I talk in generalities, but by and large every single thing I said is true.

Urban is perhaps the best CFB coach ever, guys like him come around very rarely & the chances Iowa State landing him first are sooo slim. But yeah, I think he would have done better than most coaches at Iowa State, but I don't think he would have enjoyed the success he had at Utah, no way. Chizek was a .500 coach there, he bolted to Auburn and won a national title. He was good enough to win a freaking national title, but couldn't get above .500 at Iowa State.

Vandy and Kentucky suck. Did Vandy ever beat a team with an above .500 record with Franklin? Yes he made Vandy respectful, but they were hardly world beaters. Kentucky is building the same thing they always build, a loser. You cannot use Kentucky for this argument, they have won nothing in forever. Miss. State is a great example and I will give you that one, but they are reside in a fertile recruiting territory, so it's understandable, or, the exception like I discussed earlier, and we'll see if he can maintain, jury is still out.

I already agreed K-State over achieves when you hire a once in a generation coach, but look what they were before him, and what they were after he left the first time, and what do you think they'll look like when he leaves? But yeah, they got lucky with Snyder, but they are what they are, a rock waiting to sink in the water when he bolts.

Briles and Patterson reside in Texas, high school talent galore, plus they are amazing coaches who would bolt a low life like Iowa State at the first opportunity. So no, they couldn't build anything sustainable at a lesser school because they wouldn't stick around.

Bottom line, yes, schools can get lucky for a while with the right coach, but those coaches normally leave for greener pastures as soon as they become a hot commodity. But I stick by what I said, every conference has some bottom feeders that will always be bottom feeders, by and large that is 100% accurate.
 
It's a shame Rhodes isn't doing better at ISU. He's the type of coach that would build something there, and stay for a while. It just doesn't seem to be working for him. I was expecting cool things when he brought Mangino in, but I confess I really haven't watched them much the last couple of years. Is their offense looking any better?
 
Playing teams like Texas Tech,TCU and Baylor back to back to back tends to make you go 0-3. The Big 12 also plays all the other 9 members . How would you like to face OSU,Mich,Mich S, PSU,Wis,NW,Iowa and Mn every year? The all world SEC has 14 teams and plays 8 games so you don't play all the big boys every year. It will be interesting when we go to 9 games in 2017.
 
Playing teams like Texas Tech,TCU and Baylor back to back to back tends to make you go 0-3. The Big 12 also plays all the other 9 members . How would you like to face OSU,Mich,Mich S, PSU,Wis,NW,Iowa and Mn every year? The all world SEC has 14 teams and plays 8 games so you don't play all the big boys every year. It will be interesting when we go to 9 games in 2017.

Absolutely. So going back to the question- Is the door closed for KSU and ISU? If not, what do you think they need to do to be successful in a conference that may be adding at least one more Texas team in Houston? Is it too late?
 
I admit the Big XII has some good teams. Their biggest problem is tv markets. No one watches a lot of those teams, especially nationally. They have Texas and Oklahoma but both are down (OU is competitive). Texas is a football state and doesn't care about other sports. Does anyone nationally watch Baylor or TTech? Adding two more small Texas schools with no market share will do more harm than good as the money will be split into smaller pieces.

As I've said in the past, I really don't care what happens to these schools anyway after they pissed on us those last few years. Screw em.
 
I stumbled across an Iowa State thread yesterday that claimed they would be competitive in the B1G...OK...Right...
 
KSU is the poster child for a program that thrives because of one man .Before Snyder left Hayden Fry KSU was bad when Snyder left KSU the first time they were bad again when he returned they were decent again. ISU hired Gene Chizik his record there was awful. He jumped to Auburn and won a NC then got fired again.ISU had Johnny Majors and he won there jumped to Pitt and won the NC.ISU had Earle Bruce who won the Big 8 and beat Neb 2 years in a row. He jumped to OSU and won there . So coaches are the real catalyst. Take Iowa under Evy they won the B1G and 2 Rose bowls. He became the AD and Iowa had 19 straight losing seasons. Fry was hired, 3 years later he was in the Rose for the first if his 3 trips. He changed the culture Tiger Hawk and all. ISU just expanded the stadium to 50-55000 but you have to remember they fight Iowa every year for the few Div-1 recruits and Iowa gets 90% of them .ISU like KSU is now a BB school.I believe the COACH is #1 get the right guy and you have a chance .Facilities are good to great at a lot of places not so much at KSU. Both places are tough to win because they are not the only big dog in the state,a real handicap.It is kind of like living the older you get the older you get.Someone has to come in and break the losing blueprint, it can be done but sustaining it in this day in age is tough. How many times does the SB champion repeat year after year.
 
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The academics will hurt Okie but the draw of the name in sports might be enough to compensate for it.

I don't buy academics are as important to the B1G as they like to claim, otherwise you guys wouldn't have inserted one of these

FEIPX6WGQ5QCII4.MEDIUM.jpg


in our back when we joined when you voted against us in the AAU thingy.
 
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IMO the future of the Big 12 depends entirely on Texas and OU.

IMO the BIG is not done expanding and neither is the SEC. IMO there are very few non-power 5 teams the BIG or SEC want. So they'll be looking to poach from another Power 5. Obviously neither conference is going to look to the PAC, and the ACC's exit fees are killer at this point. That leaves only one place to turn and that's the Big 12. Currently the Big 12 does not have any viable prospects for their own expansion, which puts them at an obvious disadvantage. Texas has been looking for greener pastures since before the formation of the Big 12, and it wouldn't surprise me to see them, ACC, BIG or independent. OU was pretty verbal about their displeasure with the Big 12 this past summer and it seems some of their fans are more than ready to look to the SEC. The question is can they get away from OSU. If either Texas or OU, or both bolt, then the Big 12 is done. But as long as they stay, the Big 12 is just fine.
 
I don't buy academics are as important to the B1G as they like to claim, otherwise you guys would have inserted one of these

FEIPX6WGQ5QCII4.MEDIUM.jpg


in our back when we joined when you voted against us in the AAU thingy.
My recollection was that the reason we were voted out was because of some big 12 members… I'm probably wrong and my memory is faulty. It happens a lot to me…
 
My recollection was that the reason we were voted out was because of some big 12 members… I'm probably wrong and my memory is faulty. It happens a lot to me…

Nope Big 12 schools were supportive, including Texas.

Votes that went against included Wiscy and Michigan---they vote with NU and we are still AAU
 
Nope Big 12 schools were supportive, including Texas.

Votes that went against included Wiscy and Michigan---they vote with NU and we are still AAU
Figured I was wrong... Don't know why I thought it was one final screw you from the big 12...
 
I would love to see oklahoma or Texas join the Big10. I don't know if I honestly see it happening, but would be great to have those rivalries back.
Good Lord no would I want Texas to join the Big 10. They always beat us (even when we had the better team).

Besides we already have a Texas (Wisconsin).
 
I happened upon this thread and smiled, being purple blooded myself. K-State is one of the most successful programs in the Big 12, measured by wins, championships, bowls, financials, facilities or however one might choose to judge it.

The future here is, yes, dependent on what OU and UT may choose to do, but not Ku. Ku is a basketball powerhouse in a football league. If they left, no one would care. But if the other two did, it would be curtains for the remainder, not only the Wildcats.
 
I happened upon this thread and smiled, being purple blooded myself. K-State is one of the most successful programs in the Big 12, measured by wins, championships, bowls, financials, facilities or however one might choose to judge it.

The future here is, yes, dependent on what OU and UT may choose to do, but not Ku. Ku is a basketball powerhouse in a football league. If they left, no one would care. But if the other two did, it would be curtains for the remainder, not only the Wildcats.

Awesome. I was hoping a K-State fan would stop by. How do you feel adding TCU and Baylor's growth has affected your recruiting? I'm not sure if you recruit Texas heavily, but I've always wanted to get a KSU fan's thoughts. Also, if they invite another TX team like Houston in, does that affect it even more? Best of luck to you guys this weekend.
 
Awesome. I was hoping a K-State fan would stop by. How do you feel adding TCU and Baylor's growth has affected your recruiting? I'm not sure if you recruit Texas heavily, but I've always wanted to get a KSU fan's thoughts. Also, if they invite another TX team like Houston in, does that affect it even more? Best of luck to you guys this weekend.

Baylor and TCU have always been there. They have great coaches now.

I believe Baylor recruits kids today from OU and UT. While TCU historically has taken them from K-State, Tech and oSu. Baylor's QB, remarkably, originally had committed to Ku. I'm of the view that a rising tide lifts all boats. So, successful programs throughout the league are a good thing, as opposed to, say, the ACC.

As for Houston, I'd prefer BYU by a wide margin.
 
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Baylor and TCU have always been there. They have great coaches now.

I believe Baylor recruits kids today from OU and UT. While TCU historically has taken them from K-State, Tech and oSu. Baylor's QB, remarkably, originally had committed to Ku. I'm of the view that a rising tide lifts all boats. So, successful programs throughout the league are a good thing, as opposed to, say, the ACC.

As for Houston, I'd prefer BYU by a wide margin.
Baylor has been there since the start of the Big 12, but TCU was only added after the defections of Nebraska, Colorado, Missouri and Texas a&m.
 
Baylor has been there since the start of the Big 12, but TCU was only added after the defections of Nebraska, Colorado, Missouri and Texas a&m.

TCU has played high level football for a long time, before being in this league, and they have taken kids from Big 12 schools. Ladainian Tomlinson was headed to K-State originally.
 
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