Boyd Eppely article in husker Extra
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This is all true however does this explain away such a horrible season against a pretty weak schedule - lets see how we do next year with Oregon and Ohio State - If we get blown out in these games I do not think fans will be content with the almost there and patience change will be gradual thinking
Riley's a qualified coach, and it remains to be seen if he can build a more consistent team here at NU than he did at OSU. If he doesn't, he'll see the door, but pissing our pants at the first signs of obstacles and trying to over correct is amateur hour.
Its been demonstrated nationwide that decisions to terminate and hire are not made lightly, and quite frankly, people here who basically won't be footing the bill are looking past that and just hoping to spend more of someone else's money because they are upset.
Certainly at some point in your life, your father or a boss or someone has said "there's a right way and a wrong way to do things, we're going to do the right thing", and that's where we are now. We're not going to burn the administration down everytime a guy doesn't come in and win 10 games.
I'm not trying to explain away anything. Riley's got a 5-7 on the table, he knows that not good enough. We have laid before us a bunch of challenges, with staff and players alike. They get corrected or he's gone in a couple years.
The only reason you "burn the village to save the village" now is there is literally no other choice. Clearly that is not the situation, but yet people keep advocating burning the village.
I would add, if Frost or Herman are your cup of tea, keeping Riley 2-3 more years is probably in your best interest. He either takes off here at NU, or we are sitting at the front of the line for two of the hotter names in coaching.
Hiring a guy a year or so before those guys come available is probably not the best option.
Hiring a guy a year or so before those guys come available is probably not the best option.
Take Newby as an example. Open field, see Minnesota game, goodbye. Not open field, see Io_a game, cuts right into the ass of an OL instead of reading it the other way. @kaz36 knows what I'm talking about, the rewind button got worn out on that play. Newby will test extremely well, based on pure athleticism. What the test doesn't tell us is vision and/or anticipation (see Ameer, athletic and had vision/anticipation). And without that, good luck with high production on the field.
As far as our OL, go back and look at any inside screen we ran this year. IMO, you'll see what Epley is talking about.
Disagree. I think we have reached a new normal. A lot of this lays at the feet of Bo because people got used to a big blow out once a season. However, I am shocked at how apathetic the response to the losses were this year. They weren't mad...they weren't talking about next year...it was just that they didn't care. Even on this board the response has been incredibly muted. In Callahan's first year people were mad but he had a lot of support as the recruits rolled in.
This year...apathy. Both those who could be considered negative and positive are both tepid in their responses.
Its called patience not apathy. To have some patience after what we've been through is a healthy response. I guarandamnedtee you that people care.
I don't now how folks could say out of one side of their mouth that apathy has set in, and out the other, that the fan base needs to get some big time money together to make changes happen.
If apathy has truly set in, there would be no more checks to save us, and that is clearly not the case. NU will truly be in trouble, when people start matching money to mouths and wandering away for good.
I would also note that a healthy contingent of people, Riley supporters or not (and quite a few outside the program such as national media types or even prospective program stakeholders such as Keyshawn Sr) are basically saying "give it time, watch the recruiting".
The people who are adamantly done with Riley, are basically doing their best to take any air out of the recruiting balloon because they know that's kind of the lifeline right now to advance their cause. The only thing is, the recruits aren't really playing by their playbook, and Riley seems to be on the basic right track here. He's not dislodging LSU at the top, but we're getting people on-board that would seem to be more of Epley's liking for D1 athleticism.
There were not going to be any big checks written this year or next to get rid of a coach no matter how bad we are. There was a good deal of talk about that during Callahan's first year. I am convinced that the only thing that saved him then was the recruiting trail. This year people are just, "Meh..."
Not only the recruits, but a semi curious outlook towards the "modernization" of NU football. I think people understood that what was happening was not going to be an overnight thing. But at the same time, we weren't willing to allow "forever" if there wasn't improvement.
Riley is going to be the benefactor of depressed immediate expectations. Had he followed Osborne, he'd already be gone. The fact that NU football hasn't been really all that great in 20 years gives him a little more leash, along with the normal, we need XYZ recruits here at certain positions.
We are not that far off, jflores. Riley has more leash because we have entered a new normal where people won't get all that uptight about 5-7 records from time to time. Call it what you want, but that new normal is apathy (at least compared to how people cared before). You are right that Riley is receiving the benefit of that apathy.
No my comment was not meant to be "there's light years between our positions". I was just adding a wrinkle to your basic argument.
Who are you? Better get your licks in before a mod recognizes the recycled poster that you are... You won't be here long.
Riley will get plenty of time regardless what I post or what a Riley fan posts about him. Eichorst has his career wrapped up in this hire, if it fails he fails so from his standpoint the leash is plenty long.
Fans are just getting tired in my opinion. I am afraid we have gone past the point of no return and maybe I should just be happy with occasional winning seasons and maybe once a decade a ten win season
That kind of quote was said almost daily on this board in 2014. The fact that people are now OK with 5-7 record and would be positive over a #20 recruiting class is a perfect example of apathy.
I noticed it.
I guess it'd be interesting, but not overly so. I never took Boyd's comment to mean, given 18 months, we can reconstitute the success we had in the mid 90's, but rather a general statement of "in 18 months or so, we should have general athleticism appropriate for our place in D1 college football". There is still an element of coaching there, to turn athletes into sound players.
I'm of the opinion that his highest rated class is probably irrelevant, I'm more interested in knowing about how he staffs the office, prioritizes the effort, strategizes to filling in holes with local talent or going to the coast for someone. If a guy has a sound plan, he's probably capable of some success here.
I'm also of the opinion that the recruiting rank at this moment, is irrelevant. Largely, you are at the behest of the kids making the decision as to who is in the fold. For example, Farniok has flat out stated his decision won't come until after the Army bowl, so even though I think many folks expect him to be "N", Riley's not going to get any kudos from that situation for awhile. Similarly, Reese and Fitzpatrick decommitted, but have not committed here yet. One must wonder why if they intend to go here, do they leave Riley hanging for the better part of a month after decommitting, but they do.
That's why evaluating finished products is a much sounder situation. I think its pretty clear Riley isn't going to walk away with a class near 50, but probably Top 25. But he's only going to be able to relish it for at most a few weeks, until people start lighting him up about '17.
I think our highest class under Pelini was a consensus 17 (high as 14 maybe?), after 3 conference title appearances? A top 20 right out the gate after a 5-7 would represent pretty good jumping off point.
Outside of Callahan's one class, NU hasn't been consistently higher than 20 it would seem.
You in general have failed to indicate why we are passed the point of no return. And again your posting history doesn't seem to indicate that you truly believe that.
For example, if we are the past the point of no return, why do you hold out any hope that there is big money coming to save the program with another coach? That alone would indicate you don't believe the situation unsalvageable in terms of the NU program going forward.
No...you have a new system with guys on the team who don't fit the system. You have all kinds of positions up for grabs. You have tremendous fan support at a Blue Blood program. The former coach averaged almost 10 wins a year. In many ways this is the perfect recruiting situation not all that unlike Callahan's first situation. One would think a first year ranking of #20 would be incredibly "Meh..."
Who said anything about big money - I certainly do not recall any comment regarding that and I do not expect either.
We may be past the point of no return due to low expectations not ones too high. I also believe our brand has been tarnished and really gives us no advantage any more.
The decisions being made around this program no longer have anything to do with winning titles anymore
Many other new HC's are able to generate a first year bump in recruiting. We should expect the same.
So what's the standard? I don't think many NU fans think we are regularly going to be pulling in Top 10 classes.
Quite frankly, I don't think most casual, normal, non-message board fans give a rip about recruiting rankings, as long as we win on the field, we could be 73rd.
Depending on where you sit, some fans see us as being a few decisions and/or players away from being pretty darn good, and some folks just see 5-7 and want to nuke the whole thing. Sitting and bickering about 20 vice 14 for a first year start, seems rather trivial considering the gap in opinion on much grandioser matters.
That's what I'm saying, we were what, 30 something last year?
Maybe you hate to admit it, but a Top 20 finish would be a first year bump. It might be our highest rating in 10 years, potentially?
If the only first year bump is a Saban like finish, you are almost bound to be disappointed.
POB said it himself, he knew NU used to be good and had fan support, but none of these kids grew up idolizing NU. So that is gone. We still have enough differentiator to stand out with the N on your chest for a bit.
You have indicated at points throughout the year that NU could have got a better coach, and probably should go get a better coach. Programs that are finished (ie no return), harbor no such prospects.
I for one, still expect to win conference titles and play for national titles. But I don't think giving a coach a handful of games or a year, is really in our best interest.
At this point, I'd rather wait and see, and go get Herman or Frost or whatever if it comes to that and they are the best available at that time.
we finished #15 in 2011 - Pelini who was a bad recruiter averaged a ranking of #21 in his first five classes and this was with him not filling out classes all the way.
Riley is organized and works hard at recruiting - I think we should expect results in the 10-15 range
You have indicated at points throughout the year that NU could have got a better coach, and probably should go get a better coach. Programs that are finished (ie no return), harbor no such prospects.
What I expect makes no difference at all - the administration is perfectly content to have a program that does not win titles as long as the money keeps flowing and fans do not revolt
If we had finished 8-5 instead of flipped, would we be in the 20s already and looking for a top 15 class? I am fully aware its a crappy hypothetical, just curious if that would have intrigued and hooked a few more.
Actually it does. Yes you can't do anything about the administration. But you can keep your feelings aligned. If you are going to claim the program is dead, you can't equally claim the program could be saved, if only they followed your advice. The programs dead or its not, and you clearly fall on the not side.
Have faith, you will probably be here long after Eichorst and Perlman are.
I don't get you.....you just stated in an earlier post that apathy has set in to our fan base. Does that equate to "tremendous fan support"? I don't normally think of those the same.
And did the former coach really win almost 10 wins a year?
They are not generally ones for consistency.
Instead of admitting they like to exaggerate the overall situation to show displeasure of the now, they'd rather tell us how an apple can be an orange.
I believe Pelini averaged 9 and some change a year which for all intents and purposes is basically 10.
so far with Riley when it comes to recruiting is the DL, he's getting good or decent recruits for all other positions but we are bombing it on the Dline. I'm a little lost why we are struggling getting the highly ranked DLineman?
Yep, good call on Newby missing some holes, so that is certainly part of it. I wonder how well Wilbon and some of the other young backs have tested. Agreed on your comment about OL for sure, but I guess I probably bought into the recruiting hype and sound bites from the BTN guys who were really impressed with our lines when they saw them in Lincoln. I know Sterup, Reeves and Lewis were all big gets in recruiting (Lewis being a transfer but the other two being pretty highly rated coming in), and so I guess I bought into the hype a little bit more than I should have. It could be that these guys have great frames, and could be good, but to Boyd's point, need some more time in the weight room. The pic I saw from after the Iowa game with Reeves, Lewis and Gates in it, Gates definitely has some work to do in terms of developing his body, but that's to be expected from a redshirt freshman. I think that with the right training regimen and diet, he could be really good.
Do you have any thoughts on whether the comments on the OL are across the board, or maybe concentrated among the older players? I guess I'm holding out hope that guys like Farmer, Foster, Gates, Knevel are all really athletic with high scores, so the future is brighter, but I'm not sure that's the case.
We haven't been particularly good at importing those guys over the recent years, and a tremendous number of them are Southern to begin with, which doesn't help.
If you look at who we do get, even if they are good, they are relatively in our backyard. I believe Valentine is from Illinois, Collins and the Twins from KC. Neal from Omaha. Davis is a project from FL and I don't remember where Freedom is from.
I think we have done a decent job in recent years recruiting Dlinemen, Who cares if they are within the 500 mile radius - I think if we look local we would be better off anyhow - didnt we miss on the evaluations of Bazata and OTT at Iowa
1. The fans show up. Doesn't mean you can't have apathy. The last couple of years with Bo there was apathy too.
2. 9.6 wins per year.
Apathy, lack of interest or concern. I am sure those fans would still go to games and be tremendous. I am often tremendous with things i don't care about.
Like math for instance, not much interest in it, but i am tremendous at it. 7 seasons, four with 9 wins and three with 10 wins. 66 wins over 7 seasons equals 9.4 or close to 9 wins.
@NYC-Husker, the BTN has hyped up Nebraska since we've joined. And to be honest, it's not a coincidence DiNardo is in the studio and not on a sideline. He's the last dude I listen to on the BTN.
Big gets in recruiting are only part of the discussion, how have they transformed since arriving on campus? IMO, Lewis is the only ome you mentioned that seems to either remain the same or slightly improve. Personally, I like the younger group much more than the older group just for the fact they're in better hands now (Phillip v Dobson) with an opportunity to maximize their abilities. That's something I was concerned with after year 1 with Dobson.
Big gets in recruiting are only part of the discussion, how have they transformed since arriving on campus? IMO, Lewis is the only ome you mentioned that seems to either remain the same or slightly improve. Personally, I like the younger group much more than the older group just for the fact they're in better hands now (Phillip v Dobson) with an opportunity to maximize their abilities. That's something I was concerned with after year 1 with Dobson.
