Would you rather...

[Solana Beach Husker]

1. Have an 0-6 team with an overhauled offense and defense and a full class of players recruited for said offense and defense or....

2. Be 4-2 right now with Lansdorf as OC, Tanner Lee at Qb...Tristan Gebbia as backup...Adrian Martinez playing for Tennessee...the defense plays a base style more similar to last year with the secondary coaches returning...the offense runs a ball control offense centered around ozigbo to help the defense...recruiting class is underwhelming because frost is recruiting for an offense that he doesn't currently run. NU is 70th in penalties as the offense is familiar with sets, cadence, and they have a veteran qb...defense is still bad but on the field less, and in more vanilla sets. Good enough to win 4 games with the improved S&C and injection of energy brought by Frost.

 

[DeadRed402]

I'm personally glad they just ripped the bandaid off and jumped head first into frosts system/program. Senseless to sacrifice one iota of future success for a couple of hollow wins now.

 

[BeautifulDayintheNeighborhood]

I’d rather beat every team by 100 and win the national championship

 

[HuskerWisdom]

I'm personally glad they just ripped the bandaid off and jumped head first into frosts system/program. Senseless to sacrifice one iota of future success for a couple of hollow wins now.

We needed a top to bottom change. Frost has 7 years -- and there were very good reasons for him to demand such a long contract given Florida and other places wanted him and given the kinds of issues the program and roster had coming in

We want to win conference titles and sometimes national titles. Only way to do that is to be more innovative and different than any other program in the country. You don't get to that point by hoping to go .500 in the middle of making a real change

 

[BeautifulDayintheNeighborhood]

We needed a top to bottom change. Frost has 7 years -- and there were very good reasons for him to demand such a long contract given Florida and other places wanted him and given the kinds of issues the program and roster had coming in

We want to win conference titles and sometimes national titles. Only way to do that is to be more innovative and different than any other program in the country. You don't get to that point by hoping to go .500 in the middle of making a real change

Shouldn’t we want to win a national title every year?

 

[husker2612]

1. Have an 0-5 team with an overhauled offense and defense and a full class of players recruited for said offense and defense or....

2. Be 4-2 right now with Lansdorf as OC, Tanner Lee at Qb...Tristan Gebbia as backup...Adrian Martinez playing for Tennessee...the defense plays a base style more similar to last year with the secondary coaches returning...the offense runs a ball control offense centered around ozigbo to help the defense...recruiting class is underwhelming because frost is recruiting for an offense that he doesn't currently run. NU is 70th in penalties as the offense is familiar with sets, cadence, and they have a veteran qb...defense is still bad but on the field less, and in more vanilla sets. Good enough to win 4 games with the improved S&C and injection of energy brought by Frost.

0-5. I have said this too. I feel this team has the talent to not be 0-6, but not much. We were not a good team last year, we have had 15 years of poor coaches, bad admin decisions, and a shift from Nebraska tradition. I have no doubt Frost could have came in here, worked with what he had, played it safe and probably be at 2-4 or 3-3 right now with a chance to win 5 or 6 games this year. I think he wanted the "rip the band aide off" approach . Basically he is jumping in 100% with his system, knowing he doesn't have the guys in place yet. Knowing it could burn him this year. I believe his thought is, sacrifice a year to get things moving quicker. Get the younger guys knowing the system inside and out in a year or 2. Use the older guys as space fillers until the younger guys can take over.

 

[dinglefritz]

1. Have an 0-5 team with an overhauled offense and defense and a full class of players recruited for said offense and defense or....

2. Be 4-2 right now with Lansdorf as OC, Tanner Lee at Qb...Tristan Gebbia as backup...Adrian Martinez playing for Tennessee...the defense plays a base style more similar to last year with the secondary coaches returning...the offense runs a ball control offense centered around ozigbo to help the defense...recruiting class is underwhelming because frost is recruiting for an offense that he doesn't currently run. NU is 70th in penalties as the offense is familiar with sets, cadence, and they have a veteran qb...defense is still bad but on the field less, and in more vanilla sets. Good enough to win 4 games with the improved S&C and injection of energy brought by Frost.

We wouldn't be 4-2 with Riley and Lee right now IMO. Not with the way our S&C was being run. Remember, we would be stuck with Diaco and the losing streak started under that crew. Gimme Riley and Banker and we might have 3 wins.

 

[DeadRed402]

We wouldn't be 4-2 with Riley and Lee right now IMO. Not with the way our S&C was being run. Remember, we would be stuck with Diaco and the losing streak started under that crew. Gimme Riley and Banker and we might have 3 wins.

Diaco>banker. Maybe sample size at Nebraska clouds the picture

 

[dinglefritz]

Diaco>banker. Maybe sample size at Nebraska clouds the picture

Not really. You leave Banker and his system in place last year and IMO there's a good chance we would have won 8 and we would have been stuck with Riley one more year while Frost took the Florida job. JMHO

 

[DeadRed402]

You really think banker is good for 4 games? Diacos unit quit halfway through the year because the offense was hopeless until garbage time. They actually looked like an improving group. Unfortunately our team was divided into factions amongst coaches and players. Poisonous cultures won't allow any DC to flourish. Banker was likely close to his ceiling, he was coaching better players than he had at OSU with philosophy that meshed with his longtime partner Smilng Mike.Both are asshats but banker is a joke.

 

[dinglefritz]

You really think banker is good for 4 games? Diacos unit quit halfway through the year because the offense was hopeless until garbage time. They actually looked like an improving group. Unfortunately our team was divided into factions amongst coaches and players. Poisonous cultures won't allow any DC to flourish. Banker was likely close to his ceiling, he was coaching better players than he had at OSU with philosophy that meshed with his longtime partner Smilng Mike.Both are asshats but banker is a joke.

Banker at least had a coherent system and method of teaching. Some of the same guys who made mistakes in Banker's system are still here making mistakes leading to big plays. Yeah the players gave up and it showed with blowout losses to some really BAD teams but our D under Diaco was confused and lost the entire year. When you listened to the post-mortem from his players it was evident that nobody understood what he was trying to teach. Time and time again, I listened to former Blackshirts analyzing what we were doing on D and they ALL said it made no sense whatsoever. Banker's guys at least knew what they should be doing.

 

[DeadRed402]

Banker completely changed his scheme after year 1. Players dont instantly take to scheme changes man. That's why they looked lost in year 1 at times, as they have since 2009. Lots of diaco hate around here. He's a douche but that guy has a good understanding of high level defense. Like national championship level defense. He was trying to turn water in to wine here. We have backup level talent starting all over the place. Players are naturally sour and ready to blame the ousted when things go that bad. Especially when its largely a result of them not executing due to a lack of talent or football IQ. Bankers base defense is pretty outdated. He changed it up and sent the house In year 2 and nobody got home. We weren't improving. Well just have to agree to disagree sir. Bankers defense has never stood out nationally and looks like his usual work at Hawaii. For the record, i dont think he's the worst but not the elite defensive mind I'm hoping for around here. Diaco was close but maybe not the right timing. Chinander is a heck of a guy and deserves the time to get some speed on the field but I dont see him as elite either. Hopefully I'm wrong there

 

[headcard]

Not really. You leave Banker and his system in place last year and IMO there's a good chance we would have won 8 and we would have been stuck with Riley one more year while Frost took the Florida job. JMHO

I agree

 

[Solana Beach Husker]

We wouldn't be 4-2 with Riley and Lee right now IMO. Not with the way our S&C was being run. Remember, we would be stuck with Diaco and the losing streak started under that crew. Gimme Riley and Banker and we might have 3 wins.

Frost is still our coach but keeps Langsdorf as OC to keep continuity, knowing he would have a tough transition. He also keeps the secondary staff because of recruiting and popularity with players.

 

[headcard]

OP, I think we should all be able to agree that the MR experience had run its course that the “rip off the band aide” approach is the right thing to do. But, honestly, what I think the majority of the fans want is both. They want to rip off the band aide and still win some games, if we had just won the two games we gave away and the Troy game, we had no business losing, everything would feel different at 3-3. I have defended the staff and have preached patience to those angrily foaming at the mouth, but they have made a lot of mistakes, just like the kids. It’s a young staff and a young team, learning new schemes and the learning curve has been tough.

It has taken the staff a long time to get a grasp of what they have. We are starting to get there, we have found a punter, punter returner, kick returner, etc. We are using Ziggy and Washington brilliantly. But on defense, not so much. Chin really wants hybrid guys: OLB that can cover the slot and rush the passer, safeties that can cover the slot, play high, play in the box and we don’t have them. What if we had realized AW can’t do that and had moved Bootle to nickel last week to cover Nagel? Probably a different result. So I think that is what has some people upset, but in the grand scheme it doesn’t really matter weather we win 2, 3,4,5,6 this year, if we can get this thing turned around long term. But this staff will have some growing pains that we need to live with, the good news is, I believe, they will get it figured out and they will be here a long time and will win a lot of games, eventually.

 

[headcard]

Frost is still our coach but keeps Langsdorf as OC to keep continuity, knowing he would have a tough transition. He also keeps the secondary staff because of recruiting and popularity with players.

To me that wouldn’t really help anything. Our offense now is as good as Lang’s last year and keeping guys like Williams x2 would have helped recruiting, but I’m not sure it would have done much for this season. It wasn’t like when Bo came and we had a good offense he could keep, everything was a train wreck, why wait another year to install this offense, when that is why we hired Frost? What we really needed to do was finish off Colorado in the opener and get some confidence.

 

[Tuco Salamanca]

To me that wouldn’t really help anything. Our offense now is as good as Lang’s last year and keeping guys like Williams x2 would have helped recruiting, but I’m not sure it would have done much for this season. It wasn’t like when Bo came and we had a good offense he could keep, everything was a train wreck, why wait another year to install this offense, when that is why we hired Frost? What we really needed to do was finish off Colorado in the opener and get some confidence.

I agree, but did you all say that in 2015 when Riley took over? Should he have ripped the band-aid off and installed his schemes and played a true freshman QB? Would everyone have been patient? On the board I was on, at the time of the coaching change to Riley, there was no one looking for him to change offenses to his style, they wanted him to use Armstrong and the spread. So it has nothing to do with the relative success of the offense.

Whenever you don't do that which made you a successful coach, it is going to end up hurting you in the end. When a coach adjust his schemes to meet the ability of his players, he sets the program back. You recruit players to your scheme, but for the first year you are teaching them and practicing someone else's scheme, which does nothing but put you behind another year.

I am not saying Riley would have had more success, I doubt he would have, but he was basically in the 1st year of his offense, in his 3rd year. Colossal waste of time.

 

[headcard]

I agree, but did you all say that in 2015 when Riley took over? Should he have ripped the band-aid off and installed his schemes and played a true freshman QB? Would everyone have been patient? On the board I was on, at the time of the coaching change to Riley, there was no one looking for him to change offenses to his style, they wanted him to use Armstrong and the spread. So it has nothing to do with the relative success of the offense.

Whenever you don't do that which made you a successful coach, it is going to end up hurting you in the end. When a coach adjust his schemes to meet the ability of his players, he sets the program back. You recruit players to your scheme, but for the first year you are teaching them and practicing someone else's scheme, which does nothing but put you behind another year.

I am not saying Riley would have had more success, I doubt he would have, but he was basically in the 1st year of his offense, in his 3rd year. Colossal waste of time.

I did, we were in agreement then, although in the minority probably. However, it is time to let that go. All of the “you were upset when Riley did this, so you need to be upset now that Frost is doing it” or “You got pissed when Pelini said this, so you need to be pissed when Frost says similar” doesn’t do any good. It seems like politics around here, people are so attached to team Pelini or team Riley, they want to be right about stuff in the past and can’t get on the same page today.

 

[Tuco Salamanca]

I did, we were in agreement then, although in the minority probably. However, it is time to let that go. All of the “you were upset when Riley did this, so you need to be upset now that Frost is doing it” or “You got pissed when Pelini said this, so you need to be pissed when Frost says similar” doesn’t do any good. It seems like politics around here, people are so attached to team Pelini or team Riley, they want to be right about stuff in the past and can’t get on the same page today.

Why do I have to let anything go, so people can feel better about themselves? If you have a position on a topic, own it, defend it, but don't flip flop so you can be right.

 

[jeans15]

0-5. I have said this too. I feel this team has the talent to not be 0-6, but not much. We were not a good team last year, we have had 15 years of poor coaches, bad admin decisions, and a shift from Nebraska tradition. I have no doubt Frost could have came in here, worked with what he had, played it safe and probably be at 2-4 or 3-3 right now with a chance to win 5 or 6 games this year. I think he wanted the "rip the band aide off" approach . Basically he is jumping in 100% with his system, knowing he doesn't have the guys in place yet. Knowing it could burn him this year. I believe his thought is, sacrifice a year to get things moving quicker. Get the younger guys knowing the system inside and out in a year or 2. Use the older guys as space fillers until the younger guys can take over.

This is what I hoped he would do. Rebuild the program....We saw the schedule.....I still say Akron cancellation killed the natural progression of this season.

Glad he is doing this. I want to see more young players too. This season was always about the future.

 

[headcard]

Why do I have to let anything go, so people can feel better about themselves? If you have a position on a topic, own it, defend it, but don't flip flop so you can be right.

Who’s flip flopping, not me. I just don’t think holding onto this Riley stuff is productive. On the flip side, you thought it was right for Riley to install his entire offense, so it is right for SF to do the same, right? We aren’t flip flopping on this, I just don’t see the need to point out the hypocrisy of those that are and try to tell them, you didn’t like it then, so you shouldn’t ’t like it now. What does that accomplish? But I was actually guilty of supporting the last two staffs right away and sticking with them much longer than most, which could be a flaw too.

 

[husker2612]

I agree, but did you all say that in 2015 when Riley took over? Should he have ripped the band-aid off and installed his schemes and played a true freshman QB? Would everyone have been patient? On the board I was on, at the time of the coaching change to Riley, there was no one looking for him to change offenses to his style, they wanted him to use Armstrong and the spread. So it has nothing to do with the relative success of the offense.

Come on, most of us knew Riley was not a long term solution. He was quick fix for Bo. 3-5 years was his max. Anyone that thought he would do more hadn't looked at his past and age close enough. So he needed to work with what he had because odds were he wasn't going to last long enough to get all his recruits in here.

 

[cubsker]

I agree, but did you all say that in 2015 when Riley took over? Should he have ripped the band-aid off and installed his schemes and played a true freshman QB? Would everyone have been patient? On the board I was on, at the time of the coaching change to Riley, there was no one looking for him to change offenses to his style, they wanted him to use Armstrong and the spread. So it has nothing to do with the relative success of the offense.

Whenever you don't do that which made you a successful coach, it is going to end up hurting you in the end. When a coach adjust his schemes to meet the ability of his players, he sets the program back. You recruit players to your scheme, but for the first year you are teaching them and practicing someone else's scheme, which does nothing but put you behind another year.

I am not saying Riley would have had more success, I doubt he would have, but he was basically in the 1st year of his offense, in his 3rd year. Colossal waste of time.

if Riley had produced top 5 offenses, people would have been in more of a hurry to use his full system.

 

[dand84]

I agree, but did you all say that in 2015 when Riley took over? Should he have ripped the band-aid off and installed his schemes and played a true freshman QB? Would everyone have been patient? On the board I was on, at the time of the coaching change to Riley, there was no one looking for him to change offenses to his style, they wanted him to use Armstrong and the spread. So it has nothing to do with the relative success of the offense.

Whenever you don't do that which made you a successful coach, it is going to end up hurting you in the end. When a coach adjust his schemes to meet the ability of his players, he sets the program back. You recruit players to your scheme, but for the first year you are teaching them and practicing someone else's scheme, which does nothing but put you behind another year.

I am not saying Riley would have had more success, I doubt he would have, but he was basically in the 1st year of his offense, in his 3rd year. Colossal waste of time.

Can't argue with that. The difference is that for better or worse, Riley didn't have the clout or backing to do that and Frost does. Bo was actually in a similar situation when he started. Keeping the offensive coordinator and system. I don't think there is right or wrong in this. It is a lot of 20/20 looking backward.

Do you fit your players to a system or do you use a system that fits your players? This is a question that gets answered differently in a lot of different sports. The more things you change, the harder, longer, and riskier it takes. In either case, college sports is approaching pro sports of win right now this minute or you are fired. You can see that right now on this board with a lot of posters. With Frost, we have a very definite "fit players to your system" and it is painful to watch, but that is what the powers that be signed up for.

The soccer team I follow used to only change coaches about once a decade and they were fairly average with cup runs every few years. When they decided they wanted better results or to compete at the top, they started changing coaches about every 3 years on average. They've been relegated and promoted back twice since then and haven't competed in cup runs or finished hire than 5th once. They change their roster all the time, change their tactics all the time and all you have at the end is a pile of players that have no chemistry and no system they all understand. This year they spent $100M on players and are still in the bottom half.

 

[Solana Beach Husker]

To me that wouldn’t really help anything. Our offense now is as good as Lang’s last year and keeping guys like Williams x2 would have helped recruiting, but I’m not sure it would have done much for this season. It wasn’t like when Bo came and we had a good offense he could keep, everything was a train wreck, why wait another year to install this offense, when that is why we hired Frost? What we really needed to do was finish off Colorado in the opener and get some confidence.

Our offense isn't designed to help a bad defense. Our offense is designed to accompany a risk/reward defense that thrives on turnovers and big plays such as sacks, but also gives up big plays. Our current defense doesn't force turnovers, can't pressure the qb,and can't get off the field on third down. So a fast paced offense that throws the ball can only hurt. I said that the Langsdorf offense would follow Frosts lead in running ball control offense to match personnel instead of matching offensive ideology. I am giving the choice between designing systems that match current talent vs. implementing superior systems that will eventually be much more efficient and dynamic. #1 would increase win total now, #2 would lead to an ugly year 1 or 2 but lead to sustained success, in theory.

 

[Solana Beach Husker]

Who’s flip flopping, not me. I just don’t think holding onto this Riley stuff is productive. On the flip side, you thought it was right for Riley to install his entire offense, so it is right for SF to do the same, right? We aren’t flip flopping on this, I just don’t see the need to point out the hypocrisy of those that are and try to tell them, you didn’t like it then, so you shouldn’t ’t like it now. What does that accomplish? But I was actually guilty of supporting the last two staffs right away and sticking with them much longer than most, which could be a flaw too.

Riley was forced to move on from the previous staff, even if he wanted to keep guys he wouldn't be able to because of the ugly way the Bo firing went down. Many coaches keep a coach or two to help with transition and to hold on to kids that might transfer. There is a good chance we still have some transfers if one or two of the more popular coaches were retained. Not judging it as wrong but pointing out that every decision has an effect, and overhauling EVERYTHING made this team VERY inefficient to start the year. Inconsequential in the long run, but important in the midst.

 

[CatColumbia]

0-6 with Frost. I’m watching every game this year, I even loaded up on gear. Under Riley and even the latter years of BoBo, I lost interest and hope.

 

[The_Glove_Man]

I will let you know in two years.

 

[red scowl]

New Era

 

[Tuco Salamanca]

Come on, most of us knew Riley was not a long term solution. He was quick fix for Bo. 3-5 years was his max. Anyone that thought he would do more hadn't looked at his past and age close enough. So he needed to work with what he had because odds were he wasn't going to last long enough to get all his recruits in here.

No, the difference was that Riley inherited a 9 win team and was expected to take the team to the next level. The talk, at the time, was that if he was successful, that Langsdorf, or someone else on the staff would be groomed to take over. Doesn't change the fact that he couldn't do wholesale changes, because the expectations were that Pelini had the talent to win here but wasn't getting done and Riley needed to win immediately. The truth was that the program was already starting to erode, and erode much quicker than most wanted. Now that the program has hit bottom all of a sudden we've found patience, and expectations are to improve daily and not necessarily to win games. Things like "you have to win 9 games" have been replaced by "as long as I see improvement week to week".

 

[otismotis08]

What a great movie. Sjambok.

 

[Tuco Salamanca]

if Riley had produced top 5 offenses, people would have been in more of a hurry to use his full system.

What happened to the comments about the only thing missing from this team is better coaching? That is what was said last year.

 

[dand84]

No, the difference was that Riley inherited a 9 win team and was expected to take the team to the next level. The talk, at the time, was that if he was successful, that Langsdorf, or someone else on the staff would be groomed to take over. Doesn't change the fact that he couldn't do wholesale changes, because the expectations were that Pelini had the talent to win here but wasn't getting done and Riley needed to win immediately. The truth was that the program was already starting to erode, and erode much quicker than most wanted. Now that the program has hit bottom all of a sudden we've found patience, and expectations are to improve daily and not necessarily to win games. Things like "you have to win 9 games" have been replaced by "as long as I see improvement week to week".

You know, a great definition of stupid is to do the same thing over and over again and expect different results. Hopefully people have learned it isn't all about coaching on game day. There are other aspects of the program that are far more important to get right first. I just think it is obvious that a critical mass of decision makers as well as much of the fan base have figured it out finally.

 

[headcard]

No, the difference was that Riley inherited a 9 win team and was expected to take the team to the next level. The talk, at the time, was that if he was successful, that Langsdorf, or someone else on the staff would be groomed to take over. Doesn't change the fact that he couldn't do wholesale changes, because the expectations were that Pelini had the talent to win here but wasn't getting done and Riley needed to win immediately. The truth was that the program was already starting to erode, and erode much quicker than most wanted. Now that the program has hit bottom all of a sudden we've found patience, and expectations are to improve daily and not necessarily to win games. Things like "you have to win 9 games" have been replaced by "as long as I see improvement week to week".

As it should be, right now. Just screaming "you have to win 9 games, we are Nebraska" is asinine. Like just because you demand it, suddenly all the mistakes over the past decade+ go away.

 

[husker2612]

No, the difference was that Riley inherited a 9 win team and was expected to take the team to the next level. The talk, at the time, was that if he was successful, that Langsdorf, or someone else on the staff would be groomed to take over. Doesn't change the fact that he couldn't do wholesale changes, because the expectations were that Pelini had the talent to win here but wasn't getting done and Riley needed to win immediately. The truth was that the program was already starting to erode, and erode much quicker than most wanted. Now that the program has hit bottom all of a sudden we've found patience, and expectations are to improve daily and not necessarily to win games. Things like "you have to win 9 games" have been replaced by "as long as I see improvement week to week".

100% This is bottom. While we thought Riley was the bottom, we were wrong. Solich inherited a 13 win team, Cally inherited a 9 win team. Bo inherited 5 win team (however that team had a ton of talent). MR inherited a 9 win team. Frost inherited a 4 win team, arguably last years team was one of the worst teams in 60 year. No other coach has had to deal with truly being at the bottom. Coming up from the very bottom of anything is going to take longer. So patience is key.
As I said earlier this 0-6 team falls on Frost just as much as the players. He needs to figure things out from a coaching side. I believe he and the other coaches have suggested that teams in the BIG10 are tougher than they were expecting. I think over time he will get it figured out.

 

[cubsker]

What happened to the comments about the only thing missing from this team is better coaching? That is what was said last year.

I fail to see how that addresses my point