Why doesn’t Frost bring back the 90s?

NikkiSixx

Recruiting Coordinator
Sep 14, 2013
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That’s what many thought Scott was going to do, but instead he brought some kind of RPO ball with Oregon Characteristics.

Remember back when Callahan’s west coast scheme was considered too complicated?

Some say there are parallels in that it requires a special type of person to run it, aka McKenzie Milton or Marcus Mariotta.

There is a change in that Scott is going after more pro style QB’s it seems, but that is about all I have seen, certainly not headed to the 90’s
 
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otismotis08

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Jan 5, 2012
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parts unknown
That’s what many thought Scott was going to do, but instead he brought some kind of RPO ball with Oregon Characteristics.

Remember back when Callahan’s west coast scheme was considered too complicated?

Some say there are parallels in that it requires a special type of person to run it, aka McKenzie Milton or Marcus Mariotta.

There is a change in that Scott is going after more pro style QB’s it seems, but that is about all I have seen, certainly not headed to the 90’s
Well, we did bring back Peter and Foreman so...
 
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huskerfan66

Head Coach
Dec 8, 2004
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Well he did go to Stanford and learned his lesson. Maybe he'll see the error of his ways again 😂

Seriously I have no problem with an up tempo game but it still needs to be power oriented and it all begins with the OL. The OL has so many advantage compared to the 90s. They can practically hold on every down compared to back then. Some of the cut block is gone though.
 
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Well, if anybody would know how to execute Osborne’s formula, I would think SF would be on my short list. I was expecting at least the foundation of Scott’s program to closely resemble that of Osborne’s, but I don’t think that has been the case at all. I’m somewhat baffled by this because the odds of success in Lincoln are much, much higher by embracing the 90’s blueprint. Yes, it will still work. So unless we see some kind of movement in that direction, I honestly think succeeding in Lincoln is going to be challenging (and I really like SF as a man and a leader). Maybe he finally gets the right QB and is able to emulate what he did at UCF, but seems like a ‘feast or famine approach to me . GBR.
 

GammaxuvirHusker

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Well, if anybody would know how to execute Osborne’s formula, I would think SF would be on my short list. I was expecting at least the foundation of Scott’s program to closely resemble that of Osborne’s,
I really hoped that we'd see something similar to the offense we ran in '97, but instead we've been given a poor man's version of the Oregon offense. Disappointing.
 
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scarletred

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Well, if anybody would know how to execute Osborne’s formula, I would think SF would be on my short list. I was expecting at least the foundation of Scott’s program to closely resemble that of Osborne’s, but I don’t think that has been the case at all. I’m somewhat baffled by this because the odds of success in Lincoln are much, much higher by embracing the 90’s blueprint. Yes, it will still work. So unless we see some kind of movement in that direction, I honestly think succeeding in Lincoln is going to be challenging (and I really like SF as a man and a leader). Maybe he finally gets the right QB and is able to emulate what he did at UCF, but seems like a ‘feast or famine approach to me . GBR.
One of Osborne‘s formula was very sound special teams and to this point SF has lost that chapter of papers all togeather..

The last 3 years have been atrocious to say the least which could have helped win a few more games..This has to get fixed ASAP…
 

yunginsNU2

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One of Osborne‘s formula was very sound special teams and to this point SF has lost that chapter of papers all togeather..

The last 3 years have been atrocious to say the least which could have helped win a few more games..This has to get fixed ASAP…
Absolute fact
 

SteveO29

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Things have changed since the 90's. What worked then doesn't necessarily work now.

Nebraska just needs to get back to a bully mindset. It doesn’t seem that teams are intimidated at all when playing the Huskers. I like the fact that Frost is recruiting a ton of size.
 
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RedCap

Nebraska Legend
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Nebraska just needs to get back to a bully mindset. It doesn’t seem that teams are intimidated at all when playing the Huskers. I like the fact that Frost is recruiting a ton of size.
Basically a "bully" mindset means winning games and pouring it on the opponents. But naturally it starts with winning games first. And I doubt there is a single coach or player who doesn't want to win their games.
 
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SteveO29

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Basically a "bully" mindset means winning games and pouring it on the opponents. But naturally it starts with winning games first. And I doubt there is a single coach or player who doesn't want to win their games.
Not true. You can lose games and still be a bully. Nebraska should play hard and play dirty.
 
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Tuco Salamanca

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Aug 18, 2016
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Classic mistake in all of this.

It isn't the offense being run, it is the person behind it all.
Agree. Osborne made subtle changes to his offense year to year. The genius behind his teams was the play calling, the years of trial and error and the ability to change a blocking pattern or a tiny adjustment to a formation. No one would run his offense the way he did.

I think Frost was an exceptional play caller at Oregon and UCF. He was able to keep defenses guessing and when he caught you in a bad match up, he would speed up the tempo so you couldn’t get out of it unless they scored or you called a time out. Some of that was the weapons he had, some was QB. Mariota was very good college QB. I think Milton was a product of the Frost system. Quick thinker, smart and could make the throws. I don’t think he will be as effective at Florida St. partially due to his injury but also due to Frost. I believe Frost wanted to implement his version of his offense by combining more power and option (old Nebraska) with the tempo and RPO (Oregon) but that QB is much tougher to find. IMHO there is too much QB run.

where I think Nebraska is lacking is the QB and finding one that can run when needed and make the throws. Which is why I think he is now recruiting guys that are mobile pro style QBs.

jmho
 

hedonistimpulse

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One of Osborne‘s formula was very sound special teams and to this point SF has lost that chapter of papers all togeather..

The last 3 years have been atrocious to say the least which could have helped win a few more games..This has to get fixed ASAP…
Hopefully adding Bill Busch can make an impact there, because it's clear Rutledge wasn't the answer.

A lot of talk about Frost being prideful to a fault - I can say that if he is prideful in any capacity he's tired of seeing his offense or defense do its job and then having to answer a post game presser by saying, "I was working on the next play or series," because his special teams did something unbelievably little leagueish. Prideful guys don't like to be embarrassed, they like to be called out even less.
 

poundth3rock

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Agree. Osborne made subtle changes to his offense year to year. The genius behind his teams was the play calling, the years of trial and error and the ability to change a blocking pattern or a tiny adjustment to a formation. No one would run his offense the way he did.

I think Frost was an exceptional play caller at Oregon and UCF. He was able to keep defenses guessing and when he caught you in a bad match up, he would speed up the tempo so you couldn’t get out of it unless they scored or you called a time out. Some of that was the weapons he had, some was QB. Mariota was very good college QB. I think Milton was a product of the Frost system. Quick thinker, smart and could make the throws. I don’t think he will be as effective at Florida St. partially due to his injury but also due to Frost. I believe Frost wanted to implement his version of his offense by combining more power and option (old Nebraska) with the tempo and RPO (Oregon) but that QB is much tougher to find. IMHO there is too much QB run.

where I think Nebraska is lacking is the QB and finding one that can run when needed and make the throws. Which is why I think he is now recruiting guys that are mobile pro style QBs.

jmho

I don't think it is that simple. The offensive issues have been so much more than QB and/or Coach.

In 2019 our offensive line room had 6 scholarship players. Our starting interior line was comprised of a 270 lb RF converted TE, Sophmore Walkon Hixson and an unhealthy Wilson who was poor the year before when healthy and just flat out bad in 2019 and literally not another game ready big ten player on the team. There is no coaching around that as we watched a bad South Alabama team hand that group there collective ass. Anyone with half a brain new what that meant for Big Ten play in 2019. We now have over twice the scholarship players and two near top 100 guys in the starting lineup at o-line. Everyone is also in at least second year and that 270 pound kid is now 300 pounds. The one spot without a starter has four legit candidates. I truly believe our second team oline would be better than 2019 starters. Tom Osbourne himself would not have been able to run successfully with that group. While it took four years, the incredible poor game ready talent that existed in our o-line room has been fully addressed and will change what this team looks like in 2021 and 2022.

The WR core over last two years has had two small walk-ons play key roles (not the good kind that beat out legit recruited talent). Even the better players like Robinson were small and not terribly fast. I cannot emphasize enough the difference it makes to a QB when you play athletes with size like Manning, Martin, Toure and Betts (Those guys are ready and going to get the bulk of the targets). Not just in the passing game but also having larger guys in perimeter blocking. The size and athleticism that will be playing at both OL and WR are fundamentally different in 2021 and it changes what a dual threat QB like Martinez is capable of doing and what a coach like Frost is able to do with them.

I am personally going to wait and make final judgement of both Frost and Martinez until I watch them play with a full compliment of legitimate power five players which they will have in 2021. If they go out and continue to suck I think there is no other legitimate conclusion that QB/Coach are 95% of the problem. However, I have a sneaking suspicion that we will see a a completely different offense in 2021 from yards and points perspective that is paired with what is now a competitive defense. I normally don't gamble to much on sports but am going to bet a large sum (relative to my budget) on that Illinois game if spread is under 10 and no major injuries occur in fall camp.
 

TruHusker

Offensive Coordinator
Sep 21, 2001
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Hopefully adding Bill Busch can make an impact there, because it's clear Rutledge wasn't the answer.

A lot of talk about Frost being prideful to a fault - I can say that if he is prideful in any capacity he's tired of seeing his offense or defense do its job and then having to answer a post game presser by saying, "I was working on the next play or series," because his special teams did something unbelievably little leagueish. Prideful guys don't like to be embarrassed, they like to be called out even less.
Why do you assume Rutledge was the problem. People were gushing on here about getting him and what a great history he had with ST's.

He was only responsible for putting things in paper after watching film. There were still coach(es) responsible for the on field prep and execution.

The fact nothing improved falls squarely on Frost and no one else.
 

hedonistimpulse

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Why do you assume Rutledge was the problem. People were gushing on here about getting him and what a great history he had with ST's.

He was only responsible for putting things in paper after watching film. There were still coach(es) responsible for the on field prep and execution.

The fact nothing improved falls squarely on Frost and no one else.
Who cares what people say before the fact? It doesn't matter. That's a strawman argument and anyone's opinion on anyone has nothing to do with the team's performance.

As for assigning blame to Rutledge, that's not what I said. I said he wasn't the solution. Big difference.
 

bshirt73

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One of Osborne‘s formula was very sound special teams and to this point SF has lost that chapter of papers all togeather..

The last 3 years have been atrocious to say the least which could have helped win a few more games..This has to get fixed ASAP…

Oh boy, that's for damn sure. I'm still a happy camper with HCSF and think he'll bring NU around. But our special teams "somehow" must improve in a big HUGE way. He's simply got to make that a big, big priority.
 
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Chuck003

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Nov 6, 2016
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I don't think it is that simple. The offensive issues have been so much more than QB and/or Coach.

In 2019 our offensive line room had 6 scholarship players. Our starting interior line was comprised of a 270 lb RF converted TE, Sophmore Walkon Hixson and an unhealthy Wilson who was poor the year before when healthy and just flat out bad in 2019 and literally not another game ready big ten player on the team. There is no coaching around that as we watched a bad South Alabama team hand that group there collective ass. Anyone with half a brain new what that meant for Big Ten play in 2019. We now have over twice the scholarship players and two near top 100 guys in the starting lineup at o-line. Everyone is also in at least second year and that 270 pound kid is now 300 pounds. The one spot without a starter has four legit candidates. I truly believe our second team oline would be better than 2019 starters. Tom Osbourne himself would not have been able to run successfully with that group. While it took four years, the incredible poor game ready talent that existed in our o-line room has been fully addressed and will change what this team looks like in 2021 and 2022.

The WR core over last two years has had two small walk-ons play key roles (not the good kind that beat out legit recruited talent). Even the better players like Robinson were small and not terribly fast. I cannot emphasize enough the difference it makes to a QB when you play athletes with size like Manning, Martin, Toure and Betts (Those guys are ready and going to get the bulk of the targets). Not just in the passing game but also having larger guys in perimeter blocking. The size and athleticism that will be playing at both OL and WR are fundamentally different in 2021 and it changes what a dual threat QB like Martinez is capable of doing and what a coach like Frost is able to do with them.

I am personally going to wait and make final judgement of both Frost and Martinez until I watch them play with a full compliment of legitimate power five players which they will have in 2021. If they go out and continue to suck I think there is no other legitimate conclusion that QB/Coach are 95% of the problem. However, I have a sneaking suspicion that we will see a a completely different offense in 2021 from yards and points perspective that is paired with what is now a competitive defense. I normally don't gamble to much on sports but am going to bet a large sum (relative to my budget) on that Illinois game if spread is under 10 and no major injuries occur in fall camp.
It's your money and you can do what you want with it. I normally do gamble, and I wouldn't bet this game no matter what the spread is.
 
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salsa red

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Dec 25, 2019
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The only teams having success with an option attack are the academies. Even Georgia Tech has switched offense.
But........., If there's a person who could do it, it would be Frost working with TO. People would lose their minds if we had any success with it, and it would probably be more successful than what we are doing at the goal line.
 

Wyldcard

Defensive Coordinator
Gold Member
Feb 12, 2018
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Agree. Osborne made subtle changes to his offense year to year. The genius behind his teams was the play calling, the years of trial and error and the ability to change a blocking pattern or a tiny adjustment to a formation. No one would run his offense the way he did.

I think Frost was an exceptional play caller at Oregon and UCF. He was able to keep defenses guessing and when he caught you in a bad match up, he would speed up the tempo so you couldn’t get out of it unless they scored or you called a time out. Some of that was the weapons he had, some was QB. Mariota was very good college QB. I think Milton was a product of the Frost system. Quick thinker, smart and could make the throws. I don’t think he will be as effective at Florida St. partially due to his injury but also due to Frost. I believe Frost wanted to implement his version of his offense by combining more power and option (old Nebraska) with the tempo and RPO (Oregon) but that QB is much tougher to find. IMHO there is too much QB run.

where I think Nebraska is lacking is the QB and finding one that can run when needed and make the throws. Which is why I think he is now recruiting guys that are mobile pro style QBs.

jmho
Not wanting, he's doing. This year we are gonna see that chew you up and spit your ass out punishing bruatal ground game we saw back in the 90s with a warp speed passing game on top of it. People want the 90s back, there is so much that is changed since then with everything and because of that the only things we'll see are training methods such as the S&C and practices are starting to be set up like they were in the 90s as well. The 90s today is a mentality that Frost has been instilling in these players. These offenses and defense aren't the same scheme as they were back in the 90s but if this offense takes off and starts running like a well oiled machine, This type of offense will blow those 90s offenses completely out of the water. We have never had this caliber (though still unproven at this point) of a WR room in DONU history period and don't care how anyone tries to spin it, it's fact. All of this is guaged by how well Martinez plays this year and also not getting injured like he has been the past few years. Imho, we'll see a way better version of AM's 2018 form.
 
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TruHusker

Offensive Coordinator
Sep 21, 2001
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Who cares what people say before the fact? It doesn't matter. That's a strawman argument and anyone's opinion on anyone has nothing to do with the team's performance.

As for assigning blame to Rutledge, that's not what I said. I said he wasn't the solution. Big difference.
You said he wasn't the answer so the assumption is you were laying some blame at his feet. Not sure what you mean by a strawman argument, there was a real analyst and real coaches who are supposed to be getting the job done and by all accounts are not. Spin it however you want, this is a major debacle for Frost.
 

hedonistimpulse

Redshirt Freshman
Jul 29, 2018
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You said he wasn't the answer so the assumption is you were laying some blame at his feet. Not sure what you mean by a strawman argument, there was a real analyst and real coaches who are supposed to be getting the job done and by all accounts are not. Spin it however you want, this is a major debacle for Frost.
Stop assuming stuff.

A straw man is a form of argument and an informal fallacy of having the impression of refuting an argument (but people liked the Rutledge hire), whereas the real subject of the argument (special teams didn't improve despite the hiring of Rutledge/hopefully it does with Busch) was not addressed or refuted, but instead replaced with a false one (since Rutledge didn't work out, anonymous poster must be blaming him).

Make sense now?
 

TruHusker

Offensive Coordinator
Sep 21, 2001
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Stop assuming stuff.

A straw man is a form of argument and an informal fallacy of having the impression of refuting an argument (but people liked the Rutledge hire), whereas the real subject of the argument (special teams didn't improve despite the hiring of Rutledge/hopefully it does with Busch) was not addressed or refuted, but instead replaced with a false one (since Rutledge didn't work out, anonymous poster must be blaming him).

Make sense now?
Thank you Mr. Dictionary. I understand the definition, not the application. The OP referred to Rutledge as a hire that didn't work out. How do we know that? Just because he is no longer here and was apparently fired? I also referred to his "accomplishments" at past stops being exalted by several posters. My point, which you seem to be missing, is there still must be a coaching piece to coincide with the analyst data. We apparently have been missing that for at least the last three years. So where is the "strawman" in that? The data doesn't lie, we have stunk up the place with ST play and will until there is a dedicated effort by Frost and staff.
 

bshirt73

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Not wanting, he's doing. This year we are gonna see that chew you up and spit your ass out punishing bruatal ground game we saw back in the 90s with a warp speed passing game on top of it. People want the 90s back, there is so much that is changed since then with everything and because of that the only things we'll see are training methods such as the S&C and practices are starting to be set up like they were in the 90s as well. The 90s today is a mentality that Frost has been instilling in these players. These offenses and defense aren't the same scheme as they were back in the 90s but if this offense takes off and starts running like a well oiled machine, This type of offense will blow those 90s offenses completely out of the water. We have never had this caliber (though still unproven at this point) of a WR room in DONU history period and don't care how anyone tries to spin it, it's fact. All of this is guaged by how well Martinez plays this year and also not getting injured like he has been the past few years. Imho, we'll see a way better version of AM's 2018 form.

Absolutely! Well stated sir. Above all else I would LOVE seeing our OLine doing some real deal smashmouth punishment. If our center hikes don't fly around the air somewhere I'm betting AMart with the vicious OLine is going to look a lot, lot better.

But who knows....we'll see!
 
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phoenix4nu

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Not wanting, he's doing. This year we are gonna see that chew you up and spit your ass out punishing bruatal ground game we saw back in the 90s with a warp speed passing game on top of it.
Well, there will be chew and spit for sure.
 
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hedonistimpulse

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Thank you Mr. Dictionary. I understand the definition, not the application. The OP referred to Rutledge as a hire that didn't work out. How do we know that? Just because he is no longer here and was apparently fired? I also referred to his "accomplishments" at past stops being exalted by several posters. My point, which you seem to be missing, is there still must be a coaching piece to coincide with the analyst data. We apparently have been missing that for at least the last three years. So where is the "strawman" in that? The data doesn't lie, we have stunk up the place with ST play and will until there is a dedicated effort by Frost and staff.
DeWitt is gone. Rutledge is gone. Dawson is given additional duties and Busch is coming aboard this year, so we'll have to see if the special team's performance changes. Everyone knows it hasn't been good up to this point.
 
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redwine65

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people don't want to see the power I anymore, pancakes, moving chains, clock control, 4th quarter, wins..etc..

they are more focused on martinez seting turnover records and throwing dropped swing passes while he runs for his life.

apparently that's more exciting...
 

Bruce1981

Sophomore
Nov 7, 2012
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The only teams having success with an option attack are the academies. Even Georgia Tech has switched offense.
But........., If there's a person who could do it, it would be Frost working with TO. People would lose their minds if we had any success with it, and it would probably be more successful than what we are doing at the goal line.
There is no comparing Osborne's offense to the academies and GT option attack. Osborne was power run and the option was a wrinkle
 

poundth3rock

Sophomore
Jul 20, 2007
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people don't want to see the power I anymore, pancakes, moving chains, clock control, 4th quarter, wins..etc..

they are more focused on martinez seting turnover records and throwing dropped swing passes while he runs for his life.

apparently that's more exciting...

Alabama
Clemson
Ohio State
Oklahoma

All schools that throw for more yards than they run for with Ohio State being only truly balanced attack in 2020. Some of these schools where power running schools in past and have changed for following reasons.

-Oline can hold so pass blocking is much easier than it used to be
-Many of the largest most elite athletes now play WR (use to be RB)
-Defensive backs cannot be anywhere near as physical as they used to be while they try to cover these elite athletes. (We will finally have one of these guys in Manning playing for us in 2021)

If you don't have elite WR's and are not throwing the ball for at least 50% of your YPG you are not winning at highest levels anymore.

People forget Tom Osborne was a originally a Pro Style coach that changed due to what he saw OU do with running game, local weather and local talent being a bit more aligned with his version of that style of football. With his background in passing, Nebraska becoming a national recruiting power and the rules changes I am 100% certain TO's morphs his offense into his version of something similar to what OSU is doing if he was still coaghing.
 

inWV

Defensive Coordinator
Sep 22, 2007
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Agree. Osborne made subtle changes to his offense year to year. The genius behind his teams was the play calling, the years of trial and error and the ability to change a blocking pattern or a tiny adjustment to a formation. No one would run his offense the way he did.

I think Frost was an exceptional play caller at Oregon and UCF. He was able to keep defenses guessing and when he caught you in a bad match up, he would speed up the tempo so you couldn’t get out of it unless they scored or you called a time out. Some of that was the weapons he had, some was QB. Mariota was very good college QB. I think Milton was a product of the Frost system. Quick thinker, smart and could make the throws. I don’t think he will be as effective at Florida St. partially due to his injury but also due to Frost. I believe Frost wanted to implement his version of his offense by combining more power and option (old Nebraska) with the tempo and RPO (Oregon) but that QB is much tougher to find. IMHO there is too much QB run.

where I think Nebraska is lacking is the QB and finding one that can run when needed and make the throws. Which is why I think he is now recruiting guys that are mobile pro style QBs.

jmho
Every head chef needs a good sous chef. Milt Tenopir was the offensive line coach for 29 years. I remember talking to the Oline coach of my HS team talking about being in a clinic where the NU coaches diagrammed a blocking scheme that he didn't think could be executed. The followup was game video showing that exact scheme successfully executed. Innovative Oline play, excellent veteran coaching and Olines populated mostly by Jrs and Srs. That's a recipe for success at any level of competition.
 

mbecker3

Newbie
Nov 20, 2013
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Mike Riley through year three 19-19
Scott Frost through year three 12-20
But keep finding reasons why next year is the year, or keep living in the 90’s. Both are entertaining to read
 

poundth3rock

Sophomore
Jul 20, 2007
1,274
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Mike Riley through year three 19-19
Scott Frost through year three 12-20
But keep finding reasons why next year is the year, or keep living in the 90’s. Both are entertaining to read

Mike Riley took over a 9 win team.

Scott Frost took over a 4 win team that lost or was losing 4 or its last 6 games by over thirty in fourth quarter with a future roster that would be decimated by one coach who effectively fired himself (Pelini) another that was completely in over his head recruiting and coaching in big ten.

Frost could have won some more games with better coaching but any coach or QB for that matter that took this job or was playing on this team from 2018 to 2020 was going to rack up a bunch of losses unless they had Alabama level classes.

The poster child for this complete f'ing debacle was that Nebraska had 7 scholarship lineman in 2019 after they handed one out to Hixson and converted the 270 lb Jurgens, both of which started. That line was literally the worst in modern era of Husker football. No coach or QB was winning games in big ten with that team, period.

Lets see what he and Martinez do with the roster in 2021 with what should be a top 3rd of league defense and a WR and O-line group that has replaced borderline big ten players and walkons with legit NFL athletes who are now game ready. (Jurgens, Corcoran, Piper, Benhart, Manning, Toure and Betts are absolutely NFL level athletes). I get true fans being skeptical and am cool with that but some of you clowns that claim to be fans and take every opportunity to run your team down make no sense to me. I get the Iowa fans that do it. If I was a big enough loser to post on other teams boards I would probably do the same thing. But Nebraska fans doing it, just makes no sense.