We need a huge infrastructure program...

rgrachek

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We don’t suck. We just aren’t as good as we should be, nor as good as you’d like us to be. And you’re way off on medical care too. We aren’t top ten. Now if you want the best brain surgeon in the world then yeah, decent chance he practices here.
Nobody is as good as they should be in the eye of many people. That's a total value judgement. It's damned likely that something that some smart person things is great another smart person thinks is deplorable.

I'm not off on medical care. 99.99% of the population wouldn't even think about getting their health care somewhere else.
 

IndyHusker

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Nobody is as good as they should be in the eye of many people. That's a total value judgement. It's damned likely that something that some smart person things is great another smart person thinks is deplorable.

I'm not off on medical care. 99.99% of the population wouldn't even think about getting their health care somewhere else.
Far closer to 49.99% given that most countries ranked in front of us have single payer healthcare.
 
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IowaHuskerFan3

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Maybe they should consider finishing the bullet train in Caly before they look into a train from LA to Vegas. Oh I forgot it’s only 880 million over budget
 

nelsonj22

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Most of Texas problem is the unprecedented growth they've witnessed in the last seven and especially the last five years.

As smart as our country is, we constantly prove how ignorant we are at the same time. I don't know why it always takes a catastrophic event before our governmentmental agencies get off there asses and due something.

Terrorism in this country will more than likely be directed at our water systems and power grids as witnessed by the Colonial pipeline.

I'm all for inferstructure stimulation, but loathe all the politicians from both sides with there hands out for bullshit pet pork that have nothing to do with these types of bills.
It's like welfare imo, you waiste the money on the trash to help the truly needy that don't abuse the system.

In both cases it's more gain than waste imo but sometimes not by a whole lot.
 
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nelsonj22

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That's if you actually believe in stupid rankings. China ranks low in number of COVID cases and deaths.

There's a major disconnect in the way the left views how crappy America is in almost all spheres, yet millions of people risk their lives to get here.

For the size of our country, our infrastructure is amazing. You literally never have to worry about whether you can drink the water, the stores are always full, even the poor can have a car and drive, the power grid is VERY reliable, as well as the gas and telecommunication systems. The medical care is second to none. Our standard of living is way better on average than all but the small isolated kingdoms. And don't go on about places like New Zealand where the GDP per capata is 65% of the USA or other isolated kingdom States like Luxembourg. Do a poll and see how many people would rather live in Luxembourg as opposed to the USA.

Yet, we suck.
Where are you at that infrastructure is adequate? Rural Nebraska/Iowa sure AF isn't it. So do we tax the land or profits of the farmer to pay for the needed infrastructure?

Pretty sure a really socialist policy paid for the infrastructure in the beginning not the citizens
 

rgrachek

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Far closer to 49.99% given that most countries ranked in front of us have single payer healthcare.
Jeeze man, that's because the main criterion that they use for saying that the health care system is better is that it's single payer. Socialists always think that anything socialist is better than anything free enterprise.

You know as well as I do that these rankings are nonsense, and that's why people come here for health care. I had a family member have a gall bladder removed (during COVID last fall) that was causing some problems.

Day one morning - Trip to the emergency room to diagnose the problem - CT scan and blood work.

Day one afternoon - consultation with the surgeon.

Day three morning - Surgery outpatient.

Day three afternoon - Home in bed with three little holes and 6 stitches.

Day 7 - Back to work feeling great with no pain.

In most countries on your list, her day 7 would be about 2-4 weeks away from the CT scan.
 

IndyHusker

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Jeeze man, that's because the main criterion that they use for saying that the health care system is better is that it's single payer. Socialists always think that anything socialist is better than anything free enterprise.

You know as well as I do that these rankings are nonsense, and that's why people come here for health care. I had a family member have a gall bladder removed (during COVID last fall) that was causing some problems.

Day one morning - Trip to the emergency room to diagnose the problem - CT scan and blood work.

Day one afternoon - consultation with the surgeon.

Day three morning - Surgery outpatient.

Day three afternoon - Home in bed with three little holes and 6 stitches.

Day 7 - Back to work feeling great with no pain.

In most countries on your list, her day 7 would be about 2-4 weeks away from the CT scan.
If you have insurance. And live in the right place. I can't complain at all about our medical or insurance system. I thought they both did a great job when my first wife was battling cancer in the early 2000s. But, we lived in a place with great medical facilities and had United Health as our insurer. When you don't have either of those, things don't often go as well. My second wife's parents had to file medical bankruptcy after only a few months of bills.
 

rgrachek

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If you have insurance. And live in the right place. I can't complain at all about our medical or insurance system. I thought they both did a great job when my first wife was battling cancer in the early 2000s. But, we lived in a place with great medical facilities and had United Health as our insurer. When you don't have either of those, things don't often go as well. My second wife's parents had to file medical bankruptcy after only a few months of bills.
It's getting a little old listening to people squawk about people who go into bankruptcy because of medical bills. Bad things happen to people all of the time, but most of the time, people who lose their assets to medical bills: 1) don't have many assets to start with; and 2) didn't do the responsible thing and maintain some form of insurance with a maximum out-of-pocket. These are people who don't qualify for medicaid, so they have enough income or assets to afford insurance.

But the answer to that issue isn't to blow up a great health care system making someone wait 2 months for a CT scan or MRI, just so we can say that everyone is covered. So you're family doesn't have to file medical bankruptcy, my family has to be in a crappy health care system? I don't think so.
 

IndyHusker

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It's getting a little old listening to people squawk about people who go into bankruptcy because of medical bills. Bad things happen to people all of the time, but most of the time, people who lose their assets to medical bills: 1) don't have many assets to start with; and 2) didn't do the responsible thing and maintain some form of insurance with a maximum out-of-pocket. These are people who don't qualify for medicaid, so they have enough income or assets to afford insurance.

But the answer to that issue isn't to blow up a great health care system making someone wait 2 months for a CT scan or MRI, just so we can say that everyone is covered. So you're family doesn't have to file medical bankruptcy, my family has to be in a crappy health care system? I don't think so.
I was wrong. According to U.S. News and World Report, we have now fallen to #22.
 
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IndyHusker

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It's getting a little old listening to people squawk about people who go into bankruptcy because of medical bills. Bad things happen to people all of the time, but most of the time, people who lose their assets to medical bills: 1) don't have many assets to start with; and 2) didn't do the responsible thing and maintain some form of insurance with a maximum out-of-pocket. These are people who don't qualify for medicaid, so they have enough income or assets to afford insurance.

But the answer to that issue isn't to blow up a great health care system making someone wait 2 months for a CT scan or MRI, just so we can say that everyone is covered. So you're family doesn't have to file medical bankruptcy, my family has to be in a crappy health care system? I don't think so.
US investments in healthcare and education haven't changed much in the last three decades — and it's putting the country far behind its peers, according to a new study from the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation (IHME) at the University of Washington.

After ranking countries based on their levels of education and health, the study found that the US ranked 27th in the world on these metrics as of 2016, behind a host of top-ranking Nordic countries, including Finland, Iceland, Denmark, and the Netherlands.

This comes as little surprise, given that healthcare services in these countries are universal and publicly funded. The US, by contrast, is one of the few developed nations that lacks universal healthcare, according to The Atlantic.

When it comes to education, the nation fares even worse. The latest findings from the Pew Research Center have the US in 38th place out of 71 countries when it comes to math scores and 24th place when it comes to science.

Perhaps the biggest surprise of the study is just how far the US has fallen in the rankings. In 1990, the US ranked sixth in the world for its levels of education and health — 21 spots ahead of where it is now.
 

mcgradyNU

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It's getting a little old listening to people squawk about people who go into bankruptcy because of medical bills. Bad things happen to people all of the time, but most of the time, people who lose their assets to medical bills: 1) don't have many assets to start with; and 2) didn't do the responsible thing and maintain some form of insurance with a maximum out-of-pocket. These are people who don't qualify for medicaid, so they have enough income or assets to afford insurance.

But the answer to that issue isn't to blow up a great health care system making someone wait 2 months for a CT scan or MRI, just so we can say that everyone is covered. So you're family doesn't have to file medical bankruptcy, my family has to be in a crappy health care system? I don't think so.

Or they didn't do the right thing and live healthy because the U.S. spends the least amount on upstream interventions than any developed country in the world because the Pharma lobby and for-profit insurance industry don't want us too.

There is also a huge myth about waits in other countries that are driven by these very same lobbies. I lean Libertarian and believe in self accountability but that doesn't mean I endorse our shitty system here. We have a long ways to go. I know people in the UK, Canada and beyond who have been treated in both countries and hate the U.S. system and experience way better regular care there. We may have the best cutting-edge specialists, but we have a pretty piss poor overall healthcare system when you weigh upstream vs downstream spending and our insurance system.
 
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mcgradyNU

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US investments in healthcare and education haven't changed much in the last three decades — and it's putting the country far behind its peers, according to a new study from the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation (IHME) at the University of Washington.

After ranking countries based on their levels of education and health, the study found that the US ranked 27th in the world on these metrics as of 2016, behind a host of top-ranking Nordic countries, including Finland, Iceland, Denmark, and the Netherlands.

This comes as little surprise, given that healthcare services in these countries are universal and publicly funded. The US, by contrast, is one of the few developed nations that lacks universal healthcare, according to The Atlantic.

When it comes to education, the nation fares even worse. The latest findings from the Pew Research Center have the US in 38th place out of 71 countries when it comes to math scores and 24th place when it comes to science.

Perhaps the biggest surprise of the study is just how far the US has fallen in the rankings. In 1990, the US ranked sixth in the world for its levels of education and health — 21 spots ahead of where it is now.

No way, Indy. We're the best... not by any metrics, but because we say so. Don't criticize anything because it means you hate America. Don't forget.

(sarrrrcasm...)
 
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rgrachek

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US investments in healthcare and education haven't changed much in the last three decades — and it's putting the country far behind its peers, according to a new study from the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation (IHME) at the University of Washington.

After ranking countries based on their levels of education and health, the study found that the US ranked 27th in the world on these metrics as of 2016, behind a host of top-ranking Nordic countries, including Finland, Iceland, Denmark, and the Netherlands.

This comes as little surprise, given that healthcare services in these countries are universal and publicly funded. The US, by contrast, is one of the few developed nations that lacks universal healthcare, according to The Atlantic.

When it comes to education, the nation fares even worse. The latest findings from the Pew Research Center have the US in 38th place out of 71 countries when it comes to math scores and 24th place when it comes to science.

Perhaps the biggest surprise of the study is just how far the US has fallen in the rankings. In 1990, the US ranked sixth in the world for its levels of education and health — 21 spots ahead of where it is now.
JFC - The freaking rankings are based on whether we provide universal health care dude. That's why we're ranked that way. It's freaking stupid.
 

rgrachek

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Or they didn't do the right thing and live healthy because the U.S. spends the least amount on upstream interventions than any developed country in the world because the Pharma lobby and for-profit insurance industry don't want us too.

There is also a huge myth about waits in other countries that are driven by these very same lobbies. I lean Libertarian and believe in self accountability but that doesn't mean I endorse our shitty system here. We have a long ways to go. I know people in the UK, Canada and beyond who have been treated in both countries and hate the U.S. system and experience way better regular care there. We may have the best cutting-edge specialists, but we have a pretty piss poor overall healthcare system when you weigh upstream vs downstream spending and our insurance system.
There is also a huge myth about waits in other countries that are driven by these very same lobbies.

This ^^^ is pure BS. It's no myth and everyone knows it. Why lie?

Anyone in the USA can get upstream interventions if they want. You just don't like people having free will.
 

rgrachek

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No way, Indy. We're the best... not by any metrics, but because we say so. Don't criticize anything because it means you hate America. Don't forget.

(sarrrrcasm...)
I can give you countless examples of people getting great health care in the USA. You just talk in generalities and don't have any evidence of general bad health care for people in the USA.

How many people in the USA are sick and denied at a minimum as good or better health care than they would get in another country? Almost none? That's right.
 

rgrachek

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No, that’s not all they are about. But I would think that having all of our citizens covered would be a good thing right?
No it's not, because the type of "coverage" you're talking about would make health care crappy for EVERYONE! Why can't you guys get that?

Another thing, "uncovered" people still get freaking health care for God's sake!

You guys just assume that if the government pays for all health care, that everyone will be fine, but if the government pays for all health care, it will be so cheap that it will drive 1/2 of the practitioners out of business. Right now, most doctors can only afford to take on about 5% medicare patients. If every patient is a medicare patient, then doctors will go under and quit.

Universal and government paid health care is the WORST thing you could do to the health of our citizens and all of the other people that are served.

Another thing, government run health care would prevent anyone who wants to work harder or be more enterprising to make more money so that that can pay for better health care from doing so. You would be stuck with what the government says you can have or can't have. You would have no choice and no reason to try to do better for yourself. Think people!
 
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mcgradyNU

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There is also a huge myth about waits in other countries that are driven by these very same lobbies.

This ^^^ is pure BS. It's no myth and everyone knows it. Why lie?

Anyone in the USA can get upstream interventions if they want. You just don't like people having free will.

LOL - I just told you I lean Libertarian... yet I don't like free will. HA! You're impossible. How you square free will with our healthcare system is beyond me and your comment that it's pure b.s., is no myth and everyone knows it shows your ignorance on the topic. Your ego is so fragile.

Our current system incentivizes illness. Single payer would incentivize health. It pretty much comes down to that. But, please, keep doing the bidding of the plutocrats. You are the #1 waterboy for them on this site. It's actually kind of comical at this point.

I'm going to post these even though I know you'll claim propaganda regardless of the citations and sourcing of the pieces... at least it will show your bias clearly:

1. https://www.americanprogress.org/is.../truth-wait-times-universal-coverage-systems/

2. https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2720917

3. https://www.merritthawkins.com/uploadedFiles/MerrittHawkins/Content/Pdf/mha2017waittimesurveyPDF.pdf

4. https://www.commonwealthfund.org/si...ort_2017_jul_schneider_mirror_mirror_2017.pdf
 

mcgradyNU

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No it's not, because the type of "coverage" you're talking about would make health care crappy for EVERYONE! Why can't you guys get that?

Another thing, "uncovered" people still get freaking health care for God's sake!

You guys just assume that if the government pays for all health care, that everyone will be fine, but if the government pays for all health care, it will be so cheap that it's will drive 1/2 of the practitioners out of business. Right now, most doctors can only afford to take on about 5% medicare patients. If every patient is a medicare patient, then doctors will go under and quit.

Universal and government paid health care is the WORST thing you could do to the health of our citizens and all of the other people that are served.

Another thing, government run health care would prevent anyone who wants to work harder or be more enterprising to make more money so that that can pay for better health care from doing so. You would be stuck with what the government says you can have or can't have. You would have no choice and no reason to do try to do better for yourself. Think people!

The citations you provide are outstanding.
 
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mcgradyNU

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I can give you countless examples of people getting great health care in the USA. You just talk in generalities and don't have any evidence of general bad health care for people in the USA.

How many people in the USA are sick and denied at a minimum as good or better health care than they would get in another country? Almost none? That's right.

I can provide anecdotal evidence to support any argument under the sun, which is your specialty. I'm interested trends and analysis. Good day.
 
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rgrachek

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LOL - I just told you I lean Libertarian... yet I don't like free will. HA! You're impossible. How you square free will with our healthcare system is beyond me and your comment that it's pure b.s., is no myth and everyone knows it shows your ignorance on the topic. Your ego is so fragile.

Our current system incentivizes illness. Single payer would incentivize health. It pretty much comes down to that. But, please, keep doing the bidding of the plutocrats. You are the #1 waterboy for them on this site. It's actually kind of comical at this point.

I'm going to post these even though I know you'll claim propaganda regardless of the citations and sourcing of the pieces... at least it will show your bias clearly:

1. https://www.americanprogress.org/is.../truth-wait-times-universal-coverage-systems/

2. https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2720917

3. https://www.merritthawkins.com/uploadedFiles/MerrittHawkins/Content/Pdf/mha2017waittimesurveyPDF.pdf

4. https://www.commonwealthfund.org/si...ort_2017_jul_schneider_mirror_mirror_2017.pdf
If I were to refute ^^^, it would be about the billionth time I did it, but you still won't listen. Government run health care would be a disaster.

"Our current system incentivizes illness. Single payer would incentivize health. It pretty much comes down to that."

I'll need to not respond past this reply, because ^^^ is about the most moronic thing that I have ever read about health care. Where the hell do you come up with these things?

Health and illness are not something that's incentivized. People cannot be incentivized to be sick. I'm sure that this comes from some notion that medical care providers churn patients to get the most money out of them, but the reality is that this almost never happens. Health care providers are so busy almost all of the time, they don't need to churn patients.

You actually think that people will have healthier lifestyles if health care is free? Really? When the market is such that you can't get an appointment when you're sick because every appointment is taken by people who really don't need to go to the doctor? Sure, people are going to stop drinking, smoking, doing drugs, and other risky behavior because we have free health care.

More people will have chemotherapy for Cancer, even though everyone who needs that gets it now?

What a complete fraud!
 

rgrachek

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I can provide anecdotal evidence to support any argument under the sun, which is your specialty. I'm interested trends and analysis. Good day.
You're only interested in things that support your cockeyed opinions.
 

mcgradyNU

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If I were to refute ^^^, it would be about the billionth time I did it, but you still won't listen. Government run health care would be a disaster.

"Our current system incentivizes illness. Single payer would incentivize health. It pretty much comes down to that."

I'll need to not respond past this reply, because ^^^ is about the most moronic thing that I have ever read about health care. Where the hell do you come up with these things?

Health and illness are not something that's incentivized. People cannot be incentivized to be sick. I'm sure that this comes from some notion that medical care providers churn patients to get the most money out of them, but the reality is that this almost never happens. Health care providers are so busy almost all of the time, they don't need to churn patients.

You actually think that people will have healthier lifestyles if health care is free? Really? When the market is such that you can't get an appointment when you're sick because every appointment is taken by people who really don't need to go to the doctor? Sure, people are going to stop drinking, smoking, doing drugs, and other risky behavior because we have free health care.

More people will have chemotherapy for Cancer, even though everyone who needs that gets it now?

What a complete fraud!
Of course you have nothing concrete. Just repeating the same myths about wait times, etc. You’re honestly one of the propagandized people I’ve ever engaged with. Keep fighting for the status quo my man. I’m glad you think the US healthcare system is as good as it gets along with everything else America. Don’t worry - you’ll never have to worry about another discussion with me. Not worth my energy.
 

mcgradyNU

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If I were to refute ^^^, it would be about the billionth time I did it, but you still won't listen. Government run health care would be a disaster.

"Our current system incentivizes illness. Single payer would incentivize health. It pretty much comes down to that."

I'll need to not respond past this reply, because ^^^ is about the most moronic thing that I have ever read about health care. Where the hell do you come up with these things?

Health and illness are not something that's incentivized. People cannot be incentivized to be sick. I'm sure that this comes from some notion that medical care providers churn patients to get the most money out of them, but the reality is that this almost never happens. Health care providers are so busy almost all of the time, they don't need to churn patients.

You actually think that people will have healthier lifestyles if health care is free? Really? When the market is such that you can't get an appointment when you're sick because every appointment is taken by people who really don't need to go to the doctor? Sure, people are going to stop drinking, smoking, doing drugs, and other risky behavior because we have free health care.

More people will have chemotherapy for Cancer, even though everyone who needs that gets it now?

What a complete fraud!
I don’t know why I’m even doing this but I’ll entertain your question.

Along with going to a single payer system is advocacy for moving spending upstream as the insurance lobby would be cut out. They want downstream spending. Don’t try to tell me otherwise because that’s where there profits are. So, yes, single payer goes hand in hand with upstream spending which leads to an overall healthier population. COVID (and trust me - I’m as skeptical as anyone of origins, etc) showed how badly Americans need to pay attention to their health but the healthcare industry doesn’t say jackshit about preventative things like diet and nutrition. The reason it hit so bad is because of our obesity and heart disease rates which are primarily driven by lifestyle. That costs us all money in premiums whether it’s single payer or our current system. But our healthcare system says nary a word about lifestyle aside from not smoking. If you don’t think the insurance lobby wants to keep us sick to keep the profits rolling in, then I don’t know what to tell you. I can’t pull your head out of the sand for you. I suggest engaging more libertarians like Dave Smith. Good day.
 
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Jim14510

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Along with going to a single payer system is advocacy for moving spending upstream as the insurance lobby would be cut out. They want downstream spending. Don’t try to tell me otherwise because that’s where there profits are.
Not sure what you mean by this.
 

mcgradyNU

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Not sure what you mean by this.
Upstream vs downstream?

Upstream spending is health education, nutrition programs, etc. Effectively, preventative medicine through nothing more than teaching people how to live healthy lifestyles - whole foods, exercise, etc. and then assisting them with access to it.

American medical schools barely even teach anything of the like because of the Pharma and insurance lobbies. It’s ****ing insane.

The insurance company doesn’t want healthier people which upstream spending would create. They literally need people sick to maintain their current profits.

Upstream education changes peoples mindsets where buying groceries is healthcare, exercising is not recreation but healthcare, etc.
 

Jim14510

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Upstream vs downstream?

Upstream spending is health education, nutrition programs, etc. Effectively, preventative medicine through nothing more than teaching people how to live healthy lifestyles - whole foods, exercise, etc. and then assisting them with access to it.

American medical schools barely even teach anything of the like because of the Pharma and insurance lobbies. It’s ****ing insane.

The insurance company doesn’t want healthier people which upstream spending would create. They literally need people sick to maintain their current prof
Ok thanks. That should have been obvious. Also totally agree.
 

mcgradyNU

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Ok thanks. That should have been obvious. Also totally agree.

Should be, but isn’t because we don’t talk about it here lol. It’s good stuff and could have some massive impacts. We’re always focused on lowering drug costs rather than lowering the need for them in the first place. And that’s where the lobbyists come in.
 

Jim14510

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Should be, but isn’t because we don’t talk about it here lol. It’s good stuff and could have some massive impacts. We’re always focused on lowering drug costs rather than lowering the need for them in the first place. And that’s where the lobbyists come in.
And its not that it isn't done at all. Health class is way better today than when I was in high school. Think bad habits are already set in from parents at that point though. Takes a strong person to break away from how you were raised. That's why I'm fat. I'm weak minded when it comes to taco bell and exercise.
 

rgrachek

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I don’t know why I’m even doing this but I’ll entertain your question.

Along with going to a single payer system is advocacy for moving spending upstream as the insurance lobby would be cut out. They want downstream spending. Don’t try to tell me otherwise because that’s where there profits are. So, yes, single payer goes hand in hand with upstream spending which leads to an overall healthier population. COVID (and trust me - I’m as skeptical as anyone of origins, etc) showed how badly Americans need to pay attention to their health but the healthcare industry doesn’t say jackshit about preventative things like diet and nutrition. The reason it hit so bad is because of our obesity and heart disease rates which are primarily driven by lifestyle. That costs us all money in premiums whether it’s single payer or our current system. But our healthcare system says nary a word about lifestyle aside from not smoking. If you don’t think the insurance lobby wants to keep us sick to keep the profits rolling in, then I don’t know what to tell you. I can’t pull your head out of the sand for you. I suggest engaging more libertarians like Dave Smith. Good day.
Good lord that's such bullshit. Upstream spending? What a bunch of made up crap. Also, the condecending crap about how you shouldn't reply but you somehow are doing it for my own good is pathetic.

There is already a boatload of stuff out there about diet and nutrition. We teach it in the schools and every doctor I have ever known pushes healthy habits. We see things every day about not smoking, drinking, doing drugs, and eating well. What the hell are you even looking at?

As far as the insurance lobby, insurance companies make the most money when they charge premiums and people DON'T get sick dude. They lose money when more people get sick. Your analysis is back ass wards. Providers make money treating sick people, but they don't run around promoting making people sick.

People in this country have a free will to take care of themselves as they see fit and the have to pay for the consequences of their mistakes. This entire concept of spending more money on the upstream is total bullshit, suggesting that the government should spend tons of the people's money as a few pinheads in Washington see fit to force people to live a certain lifestyle is a concept that people will fight and the people will be victorious. You will lose this fight!

P.S. I don't think that you can even define what upstream spending is.
 

mcgradyNU

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Jun 30, 2004
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Good lord that's such bullshit. Upstream spending? What a bunch of made up crap. Also, the condecending crap about how you shouldn't reply but you somehow are doing it for my own good is pathetic.

There is already a boatload of stuff out there about diet and nutrition. We teach it in the schools and every doctor I have ever known pushes healthy habits. We see things every day about not smoking, drinking, doing drugs, and eating well. What the hell are you even looking at?

As far as the insurance lobby, insurance companies make the most money when they charge premiums and people DON'T get sick dude. They lose money when more people get sick. Your analysis is back ass wards. Providers make money treating sick people, but they don't run around promoting making people sick.

People in this country have a free will to take care of themselves as they see fit and the have to pay for the consequences of their mistakes. This entire concept of spending more money on the upstream is total bullshit, suggesting that the government should spend tons of the people's money as a few pinheads in Washington see fit to force people to live a certain lifestyle is a concept that people will fight and the people will be victorious. You will lose this fight!

P.S. I don't think that you can even define what upstream spending is.

You’re so stubborn that you don’t even try to understand what I’m saying. I don’t like government in our business. What I don’t like even more though is a bought and paid for government. Which is what we have. We don’t have a free market, we have crony capitalism.

I can’t help you anymore than I’ve attempted. Upstream and downstream definitions are very, very easy to find. I gave examples in subsequent posts with Jim Numbers. If Americans are so educated and have such great access to upstream healthcare interventions, then why are we one of the unhealthiest countries when it comes to diseases that are exclusively driven by lifestyle choices? And why is that something we should be proud of? That’s not free will. We’re bribing people to take a vaccine that wrought the damage it did in our country because of our rate of obesity, heart disease, diabetes, etc. with cheeseburgers and donuts. That’s American healthcare in a nutshell.

American healthcare is objectively not that great and has a LOT of room for improvement. For some reason, you always push back against any critique of American lifestyles or the way our society is arranged socio-economically because you believe it is an affront on “free will” ignoring that much of what we’re being presented with in this country at present is an illusion of free will.

For the record, my preference is to shift toward much more localized, community-driven forms of government that take a bottom-up approach to societal arrangements rather than top-down. And the same holds for economics. I believe in bottom-up there as well which I why I am always advocating for further labor rights and the working class.

Your advocacy for big business and defense of the current arrangements actually keeps big government going. That’s all I’m ever trying to point out. But, at any rate, I’m not interested in becoming mortal enemies here, so we can go our separate ways and see whose ideas win out long term. Hopefully without the influence of lobbyists. Have a good weekend.
 

mcgradyNU

Graduate Assistant
Gold Member
Jun 30, 2004
5,803
9,197
113
Maine
Good lord that's such bullshit. Upstream spending? What a bunch of made up crap. Also, the condecending crap about how you shouldn't reply but you somehow are doing it for my own good is pathetic.

There is already a boatload of stuff out there about diet and nutrition. We teach it in the schools and every doctor I have ever known pushes healthy habits. We see things every day about not smoking, drinking, doing drugs, and eating well. What the hell are you even looking at?

As far as the insurance lobby, insurance companies make the most money when they charge premiums and people DON'T get sick dude. They lose money when more people get sick. Your analysis is back ass wards. Providers make money treating sick people, but they don't run around promoting making people sick.

People in this country have a free will to take care of themselves as they see fit and the have to pay for the consequences of their mistakes. This entire concept of spending more money on the upstream is total bullshit, suggesting that the government should spend tons of the people's money as a few pinheads in Washington see fit to force people to live a certain lifestyle is a concept that people will fight and the people will be victorious. You will lose this fight!

P.S. I don't think that you can even define what upstream spending is.

I also just want to point out that while you are not incorrect that healthy people are a profit-center for insurance companies, that is only because of the insane costs of healthcare driven by the number of sick people or people living unhealthy lifestyles which increases the costs of premiums and deductibles. More people sick, more administrative costs, which also contribute to premiums. They are just different sides of the same coin. So, yes, keeping people sick does in fact lead them to higher profits. There is a symbiotic relationship that benefits all - providers, insurance companies and pharmaceutical companies. A healthy populace that only needs treatment for non-lifestyle-borne illness would be a massive blow to all 3 industries. Their business models co-dependently rely on sick people. If we had a healthier populace, we wouldn't need to be spending 20% of GDP on healthcare and could be spending it on other initiatives or lowering tax burdens.

Have a great weekend. GBR.
 
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