We gonna have MLB???

[John_J_Rambo]

average career length of a player in 2007 was ~ 5 years -- I think it is less now

is the average player willing to forfeit 20-25% of their career and sit

nope, they'll play and play without a grievance if the commissioner just mandates a schedule with pay in accordance to the agreement the MLBPA and owners signed in march.

owners continue to try to renege on this agreement, crying poor as their basis. now reported as many as 8 of them have publicly said they don't want any kind of season.

sucks.

 

[jlb321]

nope, they'll play and play without a grievance if the commissioner just mandates a schedule with pay in accordance to the agreement the MLBPA and owners signed in march.

owners continue to try to renege on this agreement, crying poor as their basis. now reported as many as 8 of them have publicly said they don't want any kind of season.

sucks.

why are the owners obligated to start a season that may exacerbate their losses - and why are they obligated to pay their employees a prorated salary when the revenue is going to be way, way down.

if the players want any salary this year they may need to assist in off setting the owners losses - ie take less than their prorated salary - ie a pay cut. Otherwise it is to the owners advantage to either not play or play as few games as possible.

That’s full on capitalism. Employers aren’t going to pay employee wages that exacerbate losses.

 

[schuele]

why are the owners obligated to start a season that may exacerbate their losses

I think the question is whether, in the long run, holding a 2020 season exacerbates their losses more than not holding one. I tend to think the long-term damage to the sport will far outweigh any additional losses they would absorb.

 

[litespeedhuskerfan]

Fans always come back and new one's are always born....short term a few people might not tune back in right away, but if you're even just a casual fan, eventually you're going to watch your favorite team again and soon after that you'll forget about what's happening now....the owners have made a legitimate proposal IMO, if the players don't take it the lost season is on them IMO.

 

[John_J_Rambo]

why are the owners obligated to start a season that may exacerbate their losses - and why are they obligated to pay their employees a prorated salary when the revenue is going to be way, way down.

if the players want any salary this year they may need to assist in off setting the owners losses - ie take less than their prorated salary - ie a pay cut. Otherwise it is to the owners advantage to either not play or play as few games as possible.

That’s full on capitalism. Employers aren’t going to pay employee wages that exacerbate losses.

because they agreed to do just that in March.

why should they be allowed to back out of a legally-binding contract just because they didn't do enough homework?

 

[jlb321]

I think the question is whether, in the long run, holding a 2020 season exacerbates their losses more than not holding one. I tend to think the long-term damage to the sport will far outweigh any additional losses they would absorb.

Certainly a real concern and i really have no idea. The bottom line is that the employers/owners are the ones who have to weigh those factors and act accordingly. I trust they are multi billionaires for a reason unfortunately for fans as multi billionaires they can easily afford to be wrong.

 

[jlb321]

because they agreed to do just that in March.

why should they be allowed to back out of a legally-binding contract just because they didn't do enough homework?

because they agreed to do just that in March.

why should they be allowed to back out of a legally-binding contract just because they didn't do enough homework?

the union can certainly fight it - the owners can also add all kinds of stipulations (COVID related) that would make playing untenable.

 

[nwualum]

I'm guessing most of these owners are billionaires and can afford losing a few bucks this year. Maybe they want a goal of having only the Cardinals, Cubs, Yankees and Dodgers having franchises. At this rate that's what will happen if these idiots keep this up.

 

[John_J_Rambo]

why are the owners obligated to start a season that may exacerbate their losses - and why are they obligated to pay their employees a prorated salary when the revenue is going to be way, way down.

if the players want any salary this year they may need to assist in off setting the owners losses - ie take less than their prorated salary - ie a pay cut. Otherwise it is to the owners advantage to either not play or play as few games as possible.

That’s full on capitalism. Employers aren’t going to pay employee wages that exacerbate losses.

also, get the hell out of here with your 'full on capitalism' trash.

this is an industry fully exempt from monopoly laws by the government to protect their special interest.

capitalism my ass.

 

[John_J_Rambo]

the union can certainly fight it - the owners can also add all kinds of stipulations (COVID related) that would make playing untenable.

fight what? the fact that owners are going back on their word?

they had an agreement, both sides signed it. the commissioner is the one who can mandate a season, not the owners.

 

[jlb321]

fight what? the fact that owners are going back on their word?

they had an agreement, both sides signed it. the commissioner is the one who can mandate a season, not the owners.

the commissioner works for the owners - it is the owners who vote to name the commissioner.

the commisioner/owners are the employers
The players are the employees

 

[jlb321]

also, get the hell out of here with your 'full on capitalism' trash.

this is an industry fully exempt from monopoly laws by the government to protect their special interest.

capitalism my ass.

ok comrade

 

[John_J_Rambo]

the commissioner works for the owners - it is the owners who vote to name the commissioner.

the commisioner/owners are the employers
The players are the employees

the commissioner works on behalf of the owners, not directly for them.

he's tasked with doing what's best for baseball. not maximizing owner profits.

I cannot believe for one second anyone would take the side of the bad-faith negotiations put forth by 30 cry babies who want to back out of an agreement signed less than 3 months ago.

 

[John_J_Rambo]

ok comrade

keep supporting 'full on capitalism' when it's convenient for the owners, who are fully exempt from capitalism-promoting laws and protected by daddy government.

the MLB is allowed to operate as a monopoly, directly contradicting the very foundation of capitalism.

the fact you don't understand how ironic your post was is astonishing.

you have zero clue what you're talking about. go study up.

 

[jlb321]

the commissioner works on behalf of the owners, not directly for them.

he's tasked with doing what's best for baseball. not maximizing owner profits.

I cannot believe for one second anyone would take the side of the bad-faith negotiations put forth by 30 cry babies who want to back out of an agreement signed less than 3 months ago.

you mean like employee strikes - or contract hold outs etc

the players need to play baseball far, far worse than the owners

 

[John_J_Rambo]

you mean like employee strikes - or contract hold outs etc

yea because strikes and holdouts happen less than 100 days post-signature all the time.

great argument. what else you got, genius?

 

[jlb321]

yea because strikes and holdouts happen less than 100 days post-signature all the time.

great argument. what else you got, genius?

the players need to play - far, far worse than the owners - it is called leverage and used in any negotiation.

 

[schuele]

I trust they are multi billionaires for a reason

Several of them are multi-billionaires because Grandpa was an excellent businessman. Not all, but a good portion.

 

[John_J_Rambo]

the players need to play - far, far worse than the owners - it is called leverage and used in any negotiation.

the players are calling their bluff (as they should), with a CBA negotiation on tap next year.

teams are worth nothing without players. this is a very short-sighted move by the owners, who will be rightfully taken to task.

not surprised you're in full support of knee-jerk reactions, though.

 

[Hardslider21]

I'm a die hard Twins fan but I'm at the point now that I'm not sure I'll watch if it does come back on TV.

I live outside of Philadelphia, We have an Engineering & Environmental business (my business partner is a N grad) and we had a suite at Citizens Bank Park. It was a great way to thank our customers/ clients for their business and take prospective customers. I called and canceled it a few weeks ago when this all started going south. That will save us over $170k, we both have season tickets (6 seats each) at our respective universities (N & PennState) we will use them instead.

Baseball was just easier to take clients to. It’s local, warm weather and the suite was catered.

 

[jlb321]

Several of them are multi-billionaires because Grandpa was an excellent businessman. Not all, but a good portion.

yes ... and I would be in favor of taxing the shit out billionaires.

I agree money begets money and opportunity - not just at the billionaire level but at every level of income - those are government policy/societal issues but not relevant to this issue

 

[jlb321]

the players are calling their bluff (as they should), with a CBA negotiation on tap next year.

teams are worth nothing without players. this is a very short-sighted move by the owners, who will be rightfully taken to task.

not surprised you're in full support of knee-jerk reactions, though.

i actually have a lot of sympathy for the players and their position

but the owners aren't multi billionaires because of baseball - being a multi billionaire is a prerequisite to buying a team - they do not rely at all or minimally on baseball revenue - it is a hobby or toy to them - so they don't have to do anyting

Derek Jeter didn't have anywhere near the money needed to purchase the Marlins - his earnings allowed him to have a 4-5% stake in the organization

Arod and JLo had no prayer of purchasing the Mets

it sucks - but reality for the vast majority of players is that their only marketable skill is throwing and hitting a ball - skills that are worthless in the absence of baseball. The owners will be just fine without baseball - so I would be cautious if I were the players about calling their bluff - specifically with upcoming coming contract negotiations

you have one group that needs baseball negotiating with a group that would like baseball but doesn't need it if the terms aren't to their liking

 

[BayAreaBigRed]

24hrs ago I would have bet cash on it...not now. Still think it's more likely than not, but I wouldn't bet a dime on it.

....and are salad bars gone forever?? Whole Foods was the bomb.

who cares

 

[litespeedhuskerfan]

who cares

Me.

 

[John_J_Rambo]

i actually have a lot of sympathy for the players and their position

but the owners aren't multi billionaires because of baseball - being a multi billionaire is a prerequisite to buying a team - they do not rely at all or minimally on baseball revenue - it is a hobby or toy to them - so they don't have to do anyting

Derek Jeter didn't have anywhere near the money needed to purchase the Marlins - his earnings allowed him to have a 4-5% stake in the organization

Arod and JLo had no prayer of purchasing the Mets

it sucks - but reality for the vast majority of players is that their only marketable skill is throwing and hitting a ball - skills that are worthless in the absence of baseball. The owners will be just fine without baseball - so I would be cautious if I were the players about calling their bluff - specifically with upcoming coming contract negotiations

you have one group that needs baseball negotiating with a group that would like baseball but doesn't need it if the terms aren't to their liking

you're absolutely right. billionaires don't buy sports teams to make money.

which is why your & their stance is all the more maddening.

they're a protected group, allowed to profit within an industry immune to normal capitalism pressures, exempt themselves from taxes both federally and locally, possess an asset which includes stadiums even the billionaires refuse to solely fund yet take full asking price when they choose to sell, and still they find a platform to expound their 'hardship'.

they are submarining something very near and dear to Americans, at a time in this country when many are losing or have lost everything, for what amounts to a rounding error in potential losses.

f*ck them forever.

 

[jlb321]

you're absolutely right. billionaires don't buy sports teams to make money.

which is why your & their stance is all the more maddening.

they're a protected group, allowed to profit within an industry immune to normal capitalism pressures, exempt themselves from taxes both federally and locally, possess an asset which includes stadiums even the billionaires refuse to solely fund yet take full asking price when they choose to sell, and still they find a platform to expound their 'hardship'.

they are submarining something very near and dear to Americans for what amounts to a rounding error in potential losses.

f*ck them forever.

I don't disagree ... and contrary to what you believe I'm not pro owner (management) or pro player (labor) - I'm simply looking at who is in the stronger position in this negotiation and I believe it to be the owners -- does not mean I think it is fair -- as to your other points they are valid but the owners are going to operate within a given system to maximize their benefit just like anyone else would

 

[litespeedhuskerfan]

you're absolutely right. billionaires don't buy sports teams to make money.

which is why your & their stance is all the more maddening.

they're a protected group, allowed to profit within an industry immune to normal capitalism pressures, exempt themselves from taxes both federally and locally, possess an asset which includes stadiums even the billionaires refuse to solely fund yet take full asking price when they choose to sell, and still they find a platform to expound their 'hardship'.

they are submarining something very near and dear to Americans, at a time in this country when many are losing or have lost everything, for what amounts to a rounding error in potential losses.

f*ck them forever.

I hope people will remember all the shit storms created (like the one we're discussing here) by closing down the country and learn from that mistake and hold the proper people accountable in a few months.

 

[John_J_Rambo]

I hope people will remember all the shit storms created (like the one we're discussing here) by closing down the country and learn from that mistake and hold the proper people accountable in a few months.

I get what you're saying, but this was going to happen in baseball regardless. just might have sped it up by a year.

 

[leodisflowers]

When I first saw this thread, I thought we may have landed a big time Middle Linebacker... Lol. These baseball guys are a bunch of pussies... They've got the best contracts in all pro sports and still find a way to whine. I love baseball, but it's popularity is going way down and this isn't helping.

 

[dinglefritz]

you're absolutely right. billionaires don't buy sports teams to make money.

which is why your & their stance is all the more maddening.

they're a protected group, allowed to profit within an industry immune to normal capitalism pressures, exempt themselves from taxes both federally and locally, possess an asset which includes stadiums even the billionaires refuse to solely fund yet take full asking price when they choose to sell, and still they find a platform to expound their 'hardship'.

they are submarining something very near and dear to Americans, at a time in this country when many are losing or have lost everything, for what amounts to a rounding error in potential losses.

f*ck them forever.

Part of the issue is the leaked information that the minute the owners agree to resume play no matter in what manner, the players union is going to sue them. This is going nowhere and personally I'm at the point where I don't care anymore.

 

[litespeedhuskerfan]

Part of the issue is the leaked information that the minute the owners agree to resume play no matter in what manner, the players union is going to sue them. This is going nowhere and personally I'm at the point where I don't care anymore.

I had not heard that and if true...(emoji rolling his eyes here) at the players.

 

[dinglefritz]

I get what you're saying, but this was going to happen in baseball regardless. just might have sped it up by a year.

IMO, they should probably just can this season now and sit down and try to figure out how to go forward. Yes the owners are billionaires on paper, but from my perspective as a person with at least one less zero on his balance sheet, cash flow is still difficult right now. Some of these guys have taken huge hits financially and cash flow for some of them has to have been negative. At some point the banks might start giving them the stink eye if they're leveraged at all. Net worth and cash flow are two entirely different things.

 

[dinglefritz]

I had not heard that and if true...(emoji rolling his eyes here) at the players.

A recently retired former player I think on the Golic show talked about it a couple of days ago. I don't remember what the basis of the suit was going to be. As that guy said, there's plenty of blame to go around on both sides. IMO, he sounded like he was putting more blame on the players union.

 

[John_J_Rambo]

Part of the issue is the leaked information that the minute the owners agree to resume play no matter in what manner, the players union is going to sue them. This is going nowhere and personally I'm at the point where I don't care anymore.

the grievance threat had to do with violation of the prior signed agreement, not a resumption of play no matter what.

I agree there is blame on both sides.

 

[John_J_Rambo]

 

[John_J_Rambo]

seems the owners have finally given an inch

good for the players. 60 games is lame, but it's better than zero.

 

[Mack In Motion]

They're going to kill their own game together. MLB is n

Fans always come back and new one's are always born....short term a few people might not tune back in right away.

Generally speaking that's true, but I think MLB has a significantly steeper hill to climb than the NBA or the NFL replacing fans with the younger generation.

They all better get it together pretty soon.

 

[bigboxes]

I trust they are multi billionaires for a reason unfortunately for fans as multi billionaires they can easily afford to be wrong.

Ummm... they are billionaires because taxpayers are buying them stadiums. Welfare for capitalists. Eff 'em.

 

[9and4]

View embedded media

seems the owners have finally given an inch

good for the players. 60 games is lame, but it's better than zero.

So we may lose only 40 this year?!?!?!?
Let's go, Royals!

 

[Hardslider21]

So a partial season than a strike next year!? Okay great glad we gave up the suite.
Better to have Covid to blame for this year and just start working out an agreement now to avoid screwing up next year too.