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Walk-Ons... MAKE IT STOP!

Stop @ing me.
I didn't @ you. I responded to another ill-informed post. An @ is when I type @Cornicator, as you can see that didn't not happen.

Now if you don't want people to respond to your posts, then don't post. OR don't post stuff that you can't actually back up with numbers or actual facts. Like your 3-4 defense stuff from a couple of weeks ago, where you didn't respond to my questioning you about Jeremy Pruitt running a 3-4 at Georgia under Richt, before Smart took over.

Also, could you fit another negative in your sentence? "If you don't think the front line 3 deep isn't getting the bulk of the reps" I needed to write down the number of negatives to make sure it was an even number.


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if you're given a bucket of lemons why not make lemonade? make a couple teams and have them scrimmage on wednesday nights. call em bteam, mowmows, wannabees, whatever. let the public in to watch and let the cream rise to the top. coaches could get some practice calling plays and see what really works. sell concesions or just have a big cookout for the students. bring in some freelance bands and let everyone practice doing whatever they do.
 
I didn't @ you. I responded to another ill-informed post. An @ is when I type @Cornicator, as you can see that didn't not happen.

Now if you don't want people to respond to your posts, then don't post. OR don't post stuff that you can't actually back up with numbers or actual facts. Like your 3-4 defense stuff from a couple of weeks ago, where you didn't respond to my questioning you about Jeremy Pruitt running a 3-4 at Georgia under Richt, before Smart took over.

Also, could you fit another negative in your sentence? "If you don't think the front line 3 deep isn't getting the bulk of the reps" I needed to write down the number of negatives to make sure it was an even number.


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You've never disputed anything I've posted because you're consistently wrong. And the post about the number of players in a workout is just stupid.
 
As long as we aggressively hit it ur a scholly max, how is it a bad thing?
 
You've never disputed anything I've posted because you're consistently wrong. And the post about the number of players in a workout is just stupid.
I am pretty much right on a lot of things, especially things that involve actual research and facts.
Here are a few things that you tried to pass off as truth.

Baylor and Georgia were 4 man fronts before their current coaches changed philosophies. Both not true
Baylor ran a 3 man front in Rhule's last year. I provided you an article where the DC proved that fact.
Georgia was a 3-4 when Pruitt ran the defense for Richt. Pruitt has always ran a 3-4

You asked me to stop @ing you. I did not @ you in the reply you referred to.

You said in a post that Reese Mooney was the starting QB at his high school since the middle of his freshman year. The truth is he didn't start on the Varsity team his Freshman year at all, but he did play a lot of sub-varsity ball.

You wrote "Adrian Martinez had more 20+ and 30+ yard completions that list except Zac Taylor", that list included

1. Zac Taylor
2. Adrian Martinez
3. Joey Ganz
4. Taylor Martinez
5. Tommy Armstrong

I provided you with year by year and career numbers of passes thrown for 25+ yards for each of those QBs except Zac Taylor and Ganz. Of the 3 remaining QBs, Adrian Martinez was 3rd by a pretty significant margin

2010 Taylor Martinez - 14
2011 Taylor Martinez - 24
2012 Taylor Martinez - 36
2013 Taylor Martinez - 5 - total 79 - 44 games 1.79 per game

2013 Tommy Armstrong - 11
2014 Tommy Armstrong - 28
2015 Tommy Armstrong - 33
2016 Tommy Armstrong - 24 total 106 - 44 games 2.41 per game

2018 Adrian Martinez - 23
2019 Adrian Martinez - 21
2020 Adrian Martinez - 8 total 52 - 28 games 1.85 per game

Hell Tanner Lee had as many in 2017 as A. Martinez had in 2019 and 2020 combined.

Just a few examples.
 
According to huskers.com, the football team currently shows 166 players. If you subtract the 80 or so scholarship guys [wait for more transfers after the spring game] it leaves roughly 86 walk-ons. What in the holy living hell is going on? Is that number accurate? 86? Seriously? Can someone explain to me how having more walk-ons than scholarship players helps a football team?
Why in the world is big numbers a bad thing? The scholarship players will get the reps. If they are not working their ass off then the walk ons will. Just because you think you are more talented, according to recruiting services or ability, doesn’t mean you have the job. Walk ons that will do anything to get on the the 3 deep are the best thing for this program and any softies or entitlement players. That’s what has been missing from this program. If you come in and think you have the job and don’t work harder than the guy below you, then transfer. We don’t want you. A very successful high school coach in class B once told me, “ if we don’t have at least 20 seniors out each year, we won’t be competing for any titles.”
John Wooden quote. “ Talent is never enough”
 
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Why in the world is big numbers a bad thing? The scholarship players will get the reps. If they are not working their ass off then the walk ons will. Just because you think you are more talented, according to recruiting services or ability, doesn’t mean you have the job. Walk ons that will do anything to get on the the 3 deep are the best thing for this program and any softies or entitlement players. That’s what has been missing from this program. If you come in and think you have the job and don’t work harder than the guy below you, then transfer. We don’t want you. A very successful high school coach in class B once told me, “ if we don’t have at least 20 seniors out each year, we won’t be competing for any titles.”
John Wooden quote. “ Talent is never enough”
Another of the walk ons work harder because they are walk ons crew.

IF the scholarship players you are recruiting are soft that is on the coach.
IF the scholarship players are expecting to play it is probably because the coaches have been telling them for at least a couple of years that they will have a shot at early playing time.
Last I checked the coaches make the depth chart, so if these "soft" players are on the 3 deep, it isn't the "soft" player that made the call.

Keeping seniors on a Class B high school football team is completely different and has nothing in common with college football. The job of a college football staff is to replace your players with better players. If you don't have young players that are coming in each year with the talent to compete for a job then you are doing it wrong.

In today's college football, if you have a team that is full of senior starters, then you have, at best, a 10 win team with no shot of winning a conference, The odds are that you have had a couple of average to slightly above average seasons (6-8 wins) before the senior starters became seniors, and will probably have an average season after they all leave. These types of schools typically run a boring type of pro style offense, where they run the ball 65% of the time. They hang their hat on defense and typically play close lower scoring games. Think Northwestern, Iowa, Michigan St. and to a lesser extent Wisconsin, in the Big Ten.
 
Another of the walk ons work harder because they are walk ons crew.

IF the scholarship players you are recruiting are soft that is on the coach.
IF the scholarship players are expecting to play it is probably because the coaches have been telling them for at least a couple of years that they will have a shot at early playing time.
Last I checked the coaches make the depth chart, so if these "soft" players are on the 3 deep, it isn't the "soft" player that made the call.

Keeping seniors on a Class B high school football team is completely different and has nothing in common with college football. The job of a college football staff is to replace your players with better players. If you don't have young players that are coming in each year with the talent to compete for a job then you are doing it wrong.

In today's college football, if you have a team that is full of senior starters, then you have, at best, a 10 win team with no shot of winning a conference, The odds are that you have had a couple of average to slightly above average seasons (6-8 wins) before the senior starters became seniors, and will probably have an average season after they all leave. These types of schools typically run a boring type of pro style offense, where they run the ball 65% of the time. They hang their hat on defense and typically play close lower scoring games. Think Northwestern, Iowa, Michigan St. and to a lesser extent Wisconsin, in the Big Ten.
Good discussion
A few questions
Do you believe in numbers and facts?
More numbers means there are more to choose from to get the player that is best, correct?
Do you think a player or even an employee, that comes to work every day and works hard, has determination, will get the promotion or playing time?
If you are hiring an employee, and you only have 2 that apply or 10 that apply, which is better?
If you have 5 guys after your job instead of one guy after your job, do you strive to get better cause you know you have to perform to keep your job
Most walk ons don’t go to the recruiting camps or even get evaluated by the recruiting services
Hard to know exactly what you have until the practice starts. Again, talent is never enough. I’d rather have a guy that is less talented and wants to win and works his butt off and is coachable more than the kid that comes in and thinks he needs to play cause he is the big time recruit
What would you do if we had a 10 win season?
Would you rather have a 10 win season every year with a chance to win titles or .500 season and then a title every 20 years? If you want the latter then you should be enjoying where we are today.
Oh, and I’ll take a boring 10 win team running team over a fancy passing team.
 
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According to huskers.com, the football team currently shows 166 players. If you subtract the 80 or so scholarship guys [wait for more transfers after the spring game] it leaves roughly 86 walk-ons. What in the holy living hell is going on? Is that number accurate? 86? Seriously? Can someone explain to me how having more walk-ons than scholarship players helps a football team?
Parker Gabriel reported 137 on spring roster
 
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Good discussion
A few questions
Do you believe in numbers and facts?
More numbers means there are more to choose from to get the player that is best, correct?
Do you think a player or even an employee, that comes to work every day and works hard, has determination, will get the promotion or playing time?
If you are hiring an employee, and you only have 2 that apply or 10 that apply, which is better?
If you have 5 guys after your job instead of one guy after your job, do you strive to get better cause you know you have to perform to keep your job
Most walk ons don’t go to the recruiting camps or even get evaluated by the recruiting services
Hard to know exactly what you have until the practice starts. Again, talent is never enough. I’d rather have a guy that is less talented and wants to win and works his butt off and is coachable more than the kid that comes in and thinks he needs to play cause he is the big time recruit
What would you do if we had a 10 win season?
Would you rather have a 10 win season every year with a chance to win titles or .500 season and then a title every 20 years? If you want the latter then you should be enjoying where we are today.
Oh, and I’ll take a boring 10 win team running team over a fancy passing team.
Here is a number and fact, roughly 40 players will see any significant playing time.

Having 166 players may be more, and there may be an opportunity for a rare guy to make a contribution. But I would say that the overwhelming majority of the walk on contributions come from the preferred walk on group. You can get that from the 6-8 you take each cycle.

so you have to ask yourself, is the one or two surprise guys you get every 4 or 5 years that will actually contribute, worth having an extra 40 guys on a roster? I say no.

if I am hiring an engineer, I don’t look at the applicant that has the HS diploma box marked as his highest level of education. I am definitely not bringing in 80 of them for an interview, when I already have selected 85 dudes with engineering degrees to interview,even if one of the HS grads turns out to be the best engineer.

I don’t worry about who may be coming after my job, I do my job to the best of my ability every day. I don’t always have great days, but overall those are the exceptions to the rule.

as far as the last part of your post, boring offenses don’t win titles anymore. Even Alabama has evolved their offensive philosophy to be more of a fancy passing team.

i want Nebraska competing for titles, both conference and national. That doesn’t happen with boring offense and 10 win seasons. See Bo Pelini and Frank Solich. Or Mark Richt
 
Do you believe in numbers and facts?
More numbers means there are more to choose from to get the player that is best, correct?

If you have 5 guys after your job instead of one guy after your job, do you strive to get better cause you know you have to perform to keep your job

how can this staff consistently field a team that is one of the worst in the conference when they have all this extra talent to choose from when compared to other BIG schools??

Roster Sizes - Nov 2020

Illinois - 102
NW - 108
Wisc - 113
Minn - 115
Purdue - 116
Maryland -116
PSU - 118
OSU - 119
MSU - 119
Indiana - 120
Iowa - 122
Rutgers - 122
Michigan - 132 (talent underachieving)

NEB - 154 - now 166
 
Here is a number and fact, roughly 40 players will see any significant playing time.

Having 166 players may be more, and there may be an opportunity for a rare guy to make a contribution. But I would say that the overwhelming majority of the walk on contributions come from the preferred walk on group. You can get that from the 6-8 you take each cycle.

so you have to ask yourself, is the one or two surprise guys you get every 4 or 5 years that will actually contribute, worth having an extra 40 guys on a roster? I say no.

if I am hiring an engineer, I don’t look at the applicant that has the HS diploma box marked as his highest level of education. I am definitely not bringing in 80 of them for an interview, when I already have selected 85 dudes with engineering degrees to interview,even if one of the HS grads turns out to be the best engineer.

I don’t worry about who may be coming after my job, I do my job to the best of my ability every day. I don’t always have great days, but overall those are the exceptions to the rule.

as far as the last part of your post, boring offenses don’t win titles anymore. Even Alabama has evolved their offensive philosophy to be more of a fancy passing team.

i want Nebraska competing for titles, both conference and national. That doesn’t happen with boring offense and 10 win seasons. See Bo Pelini and Frank Solich. Or Mark Richt
All those guys played for titles with boring offenses. Agree with you that you don’t worry about who’s coming after your job but you better perform. I believe we have too many big time recruits that believe they are entitled because of what opinions are of them.
You have watched the movie “Rudy”, correct.
It’s a true story. Kids that have no businesses playing but have the heart of their favorite team will ouch those who don’t have that.

I heard something that may not be true that I want to share with you about the players that transferred out back to Florida.
A couple of those kids, the ones that transferred out, were challenged by a walk on, because they wouldn’t show up for lifting, The walk on told them that isn’t the way we do things at Nebraska. A fight then happened and now those high profile scholarship guys are gone. That may be true but heard it from a player in the program. So it’s a pretty good chance that happened.
Point is, A hard working, win at all costs kid, is way better for a program. That’s what John Wooden meant by saying “Talent is never enough”.
Boring offense? How did we win titles before?
 
Here is a number and fact, roughly 40 players will see any significant playing time.

Having 166 players may be more, and there may be an opportunity for a rare guy to make a contribution. But I would say that the overwhelming majority of the walk on contributions come from the preferred walk on group. You can get that from the 6-8 you take each cycle.

so you have to ask yourself, is the one or two surprise guys you get every 4 or 5 years that will actually contribute, worth having an extra 40 guys on a roster? I say no.

if I am hiring an engineer, I don’t look at the applicant that has the HS diploma box marked as his highest level of education. I am definitely not bringing in 80 of them for an interview, when I already have selected 85 dudes with engineering degrees to interview,even if one of the HS grads turns out to be the best engineer.

I don’t worry about who may be coming after my job, I do my job to the best of my ability every day. I don’t always have great days, but overall those are the exceptions to the rule.

as far as the last part of your post, boring offenses don’t win titles anymore. Even Alabama has evolved their offensive philosophy to be more of a fancy passing team.

i want Nebraska competing for titles, both conference and national. That doesn’t happen with boring offense and 10 win seasons. See Bo Pelini and Frank Solich. Or Mark Richt
So if you the guy without the college degree in engineering is your best candidate, you wouldn’t hire him? He has the most experience because he has worked in the field with his family the last 10 years. You still wouldn’t hire him even though he’s the best?
 
how can this staff consistently field a team that is one of the worst in the conference when they have all this extra talent to choose from when compared to other BIG schools??

Roster Sizes - Nov 2020

Illinois - 102
NW - 108
Wisc - 113
Minn - 115
Purdue - 116
Maryland -116
PSU - 118
OSU - 119
MSU - 119
Indiana - 120
Iowa - 122
Rutgers - 122
Michigan - 132 (talent underachieving)

NEB - 154 - now 166
Not saying the talent is the best. I’m saying that the walk ons push the talent we have to be the best.
 
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That certainly does feel like too big a number of walk-on kids to be carrying on an ongoing basis. Something under 130 feels a lot more reasonable.

I like the idea of bringing in a lot of walk-on kids so you get lots of attempts at seeing if you can grab a "diamond in the rough" dude. But after a couple years you should have a pretty strong idea if he's diamond or rough. There's not a good reason to be keeping guys in the locker room who are upperclassmen with no real shot at making a 3-deep.
 
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So if you the guy without the college degree in engineering is your best candidate, you wouldn’t hire him? He has the most experience because he has worked in the field with his family the last 10 years. You still wouldn’t hire him even though he’s the best?
I wouldn’t even interview him so I would never know he was the best. I had 85 other applicants that met the minimum standard.
 
I wouldn’t even interview him so I would never know he was the best. I had 85 other applicants that met the minimum standard.
Even though he comes highly recommended by the neighboring firm. You wouldn’t even interview him?
 
All those guys played for titles with boring offenses. Agree with you that you don’t worry about who’s coming after your job but you better perform. I believe we have too many big time recruits that believe they are entitled because of what opinions are of them.
You have watched the movie “Rudy”, correct.
It’s a true story. Kids that have no businesses playing but have the heart of their favorite team will ouch those who don’t have that.

I heard something that may not be true that I want to share with you about the players that transferred out back to Florida.
A couple of those kids, the ones that transferred out, were challenged by a walk on, because they wouldn’t show up for lifting, The walk on told them that isn’t the way we do things at Nebraska. A fight then happened and now those high profile scholarship guys are gone. That may be true but heard it from a player in the program. So it’s a pretty good chance that happened.
Point is, A hard working, win at all costs kid, is way better for a program. That’s what John Wooden meant by saying “Talent is never enough”.
Boring offense? How did we win titles before?

the last time Wisconsin won a conference title, I think they beat Nebraska. That year Wisconsin finished 3rd in their division. Someone has to win the West


You lost all credibility when you bring up Rudy. Multiple players on that ND squad will tell you that the story was at best a huge embellishment, at worst fictitious.

I don’t care how we won titles in the past. Oklahoma won titles running the wishbone, they don’t run it anymore. Which is also why I prefaced it by saying, “in today’s college football”

as far as your story goes, I go back to what I said about the responsibility of the coaches. If a player is soft, you made a recruiting error. The player has probably always been soft. If the kid starts skipping lifts, he probably always skipped lifts.
 
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Even though he comes highly recommended by the neighboring firm. You wouldn’t even interview him?
You are starting to reach. We are talking about 18 year olds. Not guys with 18 years of professional experience.

I am simply saying that if I, as a coach, can’t identify 44 players per year out of a pool of 125, then I won’t be able to identify 44 players out of 166. Those additional 40 players aren’t going to be the difference between winning a title or not.
 
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That certainly does feel like too big a number of walk-on kids to be carrying on an ongoing basis. Something under 130 feels a lot more reasonable.

I like the idea of bringing in a lot of walk-on kids so you get lots of attempts at seeing if you can grab a "diamond in the rough" dude. But after a couple years you should have a pretty strong idea if he's diamond or rough. There's not a good reason to be keeping guys in the locker room who are upperclassmen with no real shot at making a 3-deep.
Let’s do the numbers.
Say 12 players per team on offense and defense
First string 12. Second string 12 and so on.

48 offense and 48 defense with say 20 special teams players, meaning holders, kickers, long snappers. That’s 116. Now you can throw in a couple of scout teams. Say at least 15 on defense and offense. 146. 160 is not too many

injured is usually 20%. Agree?
 
the last time Wisconsin won a conference title, I think they beat Nebraska. That year Wisconsin finished 3rd in their division. Someone has to win the West


You lost all credibility when you bring up Rudy. Multiple players on that ND squad will tell you that the story was at best a huge embellishment, at worst fictitious.

I don’t care how we won titles in the past. Oklahoma won titles running the wishbone, they don’t run it anymore. Which is also why I prefaced it by saying, “in today’s college football”

as far as your story goes, I go back to what I said about the responsibility of the coaches. If a player is soft, you made a recruiting error. The player has probably always been soft. If the kid starts skipping lifts, he probably always skipped lifts.
You mean you can predict a kids life and how he can perform a 1,000 miles from home away from mom, girlfriend, family, friends etc.
If you can do that, then apply for the weather job at the news station. You will have a great career because you’ll never be wrong.
 
If a potential employee (walk-on) has no job (scholarship) offers from high performing (power 5 or D1) firms (teams) then they aren’t coming highly recommended
Not every athlete out there is being promoted the same.
 
You mean you can predict a kids life and how he can perform a 1,000 miles from home away from mom, girlfriend, family, friends etc.
If you can do that, then apply for the weather job at the news station. You will have a great career because you’ll never be wrong.
Oh my. Let me spell it out for you.

You will never be 100% correct in your recruiting. But to think that having 80 freaking walk ons is the answer to winning titles, I will just have to leave you to that opinion.
 
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Oh my. Let me spell it out for you.

You will never be 100% correct in your recruiting. But to think that having 80 freaking walk ons is the answer to winning titles, I will just have to leave you to that opinion.
We did it in the 90s.
 
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Why in the world is big numbers a bad thing? The scholarship players will get the reps. If they are not working their ass off then the walk ons will. Just because you think you are more talented, according to recruiting services or ability, doesn’t mean you have the job. Walk ons that will do anything to get on the the 3 deep are the best thing for this program and any softies or entitlement players. That’s what has been missing from this program. If you come in and think you have the job and don’t work harder than the guy below you, then transfer. We don’t want you. A very successful high school coach in class B once told me, “ if we don’t have at least 20 seniors out each year, we won’t be competing for any titles.”
John Wooden quote. “ Talent is never enough”

While I appreciate the walk-on program and the history and the lore and all that....a football team is just like any organization. Having more people doesn't just automagically help and largely detracts beyond an inflection point.

NU is not going to benefit if it has 80-90 guys standing around. If we bring on essentially more walk-ons than we have scholarship athletes but then don't try and develop them, all they do is become a token to appease some sector of the fan base. They don't become diamond's in the rough standing on the sideline talking about Husker Lore. You don't need 1.2 Rudies for every scholarship athlete to light a fire about what it means to play for NU. There was 1 Rudy for ND, even if you grant a few more because we lack the magic of Hollywood, that's not anywhere near 85. Kids aren't dumb, the scholarship guys can see that 99% of the Rudies are never seeing the field no matter how many times they get burnt. Brainard doesn't produce Top Shelf D1 football players normally.

The opposite extreme is just as bad. If you bring on all the walk-ons and give them the majority of the development time, then you are under developing the guys you thought would actually be good with guys in a pool who mostly will be no good no matter how many reps they get.

Walk-ons wasn't as big a problem back in the day because TO had more leeway to get them staff attention without taking reps away from the 22. With more restrictions in the modern game, Frost has a tighter rope to walk in terms of striking that right balance, if that balance can even be found given the rules on who can be coaching vice an analyst or whatever. Likely, the right number of walk-ons, is some fraction of 85, not having an entire shadow team of walk-ons.
 
Doesn’t count the freshman that haven’t reported yet.
Gotcha. If they haven’t reported yet then they are not practicing so 166 is not impacting practice which was the premise of the OP so I don’t think 166 should be used in his argument.
 
Using the premise that more is better, creates competition, pushes those at the top, puts pressure on those with jobs, etc, etc. then expand the walk on program to 200 or 300. That will surely solve the problem and create an elite program that would never lose.
 
Gotcha. If they haven’t reported yet then they are not practicing so 166 is not impacting practice which was the premise of the OP so I don’t think 166 should be used in his argument.
I guess, but the players are signed and will be here in the summer. I am not sure if the true freshman walkons can report until school starts in the fall. That is the way it used to be. The roster in the fall will be at or near 160. I believe his premise is still valid.
 
In my OP - in this thread - I said wait for the transfers after the spring game. There have been two so far. Prior to the spring game huskers.com showed 166 players on their roster. During the spring game broadcast the announcers said Nebraska had two scholarship slots to fill.

Quick math says 83 scholarship guys and 83 walk-ons (166). Subtract Houston and Nance (transfer portal) and the scholarship count is now 81. There is another schollie going to the transfer portal - not a done deal yet (but at least one more).

Frost needs to slash the walk-ons by at least a third. Cutting 25 to 30 guys should be easy. 83 walk-ons is a distraction. Until he gets some success on the field, he needs to learn how to manage the scholarship count without the dead weight of 60+ or so walk-ons that will never contribute.
 
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According to huskers.com, the football team currently shows 166 players. If you subtract the 80 or so scholarship guys [wait for more transfers after the spring game] it leaves roughly 86 walk-ons. What in the holy living hell is going on? Is that number accurate? 86? Seriously? Can someone explain to me how having more walk-ons than scholarship players helps a football team?
It’s a gravy train for all of frosts buddies kids to “be a husker”
 
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