Urban Meyer on Nebraska

Sous Chef

Offensive Coordinator
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Oct 7, 2004
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Things are getting a little heated here. I apologize if I came across as trying to sound smart-ass by using a less than common phrase. Especially when, upon rereading Solana's posts I was very likely wrong in using reductio ad absurdum. I wasn't trying to be smart-ass, that's genuinely what I thought he was doing when I posted. Now, I'm actually not sure what he was trying to say. Nevertheless, I don't really consider my audience when I quickly write a post. I don't decide whether I have to smarten it up or dumb it down. I just use the word or phrase that expresses what I am trying to say. That's all.
Never apologize for being smarter than your audience.
 

Solana Beach Husker

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Aug 8, 2008
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I read it as Solana playing reductio ad absurdum. I read it as him not really believing there were 8 murders, but just firing back at my pointing out that CP had not been arrested even once. But if he actually believes there were 8 murders committed by guys when they were on the team or before, it's time to ignore Solana even if he states the sky is blue.
I enjoyed your read earlier. Thank you for the research. Peter was arrested 5 times from 1991 to 1993 for public urination, not complying with orders from a police officer, exposing himself to a female student. Following his groping of a women in a Lincoln bar he plead guilty to 3rd degree assault. Abdul Muhammad was arrested for murder. Eric Alford who was later arrested and convicted of sexual assault of a 9 year old played for Tom during this time, and believe me there were already warning signs that he was a predator as he played for NU. Tom cared deeply for his players but this lead to chaos as he couldn't control things that went on in out of state dorms or off-campus apartments. My original argument was against fans who have to attack Urban Meyer for being slimy when their own favorite coach allowed similar incidents while in charge. There is a great chance that both coaches cared deeply for their players, understood that throwing them off the team would hurt the player and team in the short term, and was willing to face the scrutiny of the media if suspected player followed through with proper steps for remediation. I love Tom, I hope Frost models him in pretty much every way but I also hate this homerism that doesn't even allow us to recognize other great coaches and if a coach wins, they must cheat, or be a slimeball, while ignoring some of the nasty things that happened down the street.
 
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Sinomatic

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I enjoyed your read earlier. Thank you for the research. Peter was arrested 5 times from 1991 to 1993 for public urination, not complying with orders from a police officer, exposing himself to a female student. Following his groping of a women in a Lincoln bar he plead guilty to 3rd degree assault. Abdul Muhammad was arrested for murder. Eric Alford who was later arrested and convicted of sexual assault of a 9 year old played for Tom during this time, and believe me there were already warning signs that he was a predator as he played for NU. Tom cared deeply for his players but this lead to chaos as he couldn't control things that went on in out of state dorms or off-campus apartments. My original argument was against fans who have to attack Urban Meyer for being slimy when their own favorite coach allowed similar incidents while in charge. There is a great chance that both coaches cared deeply for their players, understood that throwing them off the team would hurt the player and team in the short term, and was willing to face the scrutiny of the media if suspected player followed through with proper steps for remediation. I love Tom, I hope Frost models him in pretty much every way but I also hate this homerism that doesn't even allow us to recognize other great coaches and if a coach wins, they must cheat, or be a slimeball, while ignoring some of the nasty things that happened down the street.
Muhammad played from 91 to 94 and was arrested in 2001....no conviction.
 
Nov 14, 2005
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I enjoyed your read earlier. Thank you for the research. Peter was arrested 5 times from 1991 to 1993 for public urination, not complying with orders from a police officer, exposing himself to a female student. Following his groping of a women in a Lincoln bar he plead guilty to 3rd degree assault. Abdul Muhammad was arrested for murder. Eric Alford who was later arrested and convicted of sexual assault of a 9 year old played for Tom during this time, and believe me there were already warning signs that he was a predator as he played for NU. Tom cared deeply for his players but this lead to chaos as he couldn't control things that went on in out of state dorms or off-campus apartments. My original argument was against fans who have to attack Urban Meyer for being slimy when their own favorite coach allowed similar incidents while in charge. There is a great chance that both coaches cared deeply for their players, understood that throwing them off the team would hurt the player and team in the short term, and was willing to face the scrutiny of the media if suspected player followed through with proper steps for remediation. I love Tom, I hope Frost models him in pretty much every way but I also hate this homerism that doesn't even allow us to recognize other great coaches and if a coach wins, they must cheat, or be a slimeball, while ignoring some of the nasty things that happened down the street.
I understand your position better now and realize that I may have been misreading you. Some minor points. CP never pled guilty to 3rd Degree Misdemeanor Assault (the lowest form of assault on the books). He pleaded no contest. CP also was never arrested. He was issued tickets on 3 different occasions, according to the official court records. However, 2 of the tickets did set forth multiple charges.

Also, things that happened after the players left are irrelevant as to TO. They have relevance to the players themselves, but not as to TO's actions when the players were on the team. So bringing up matters that happened decades after the player left the team (especially when the player was acquitted) is disingenuous at best when talking about the actions of a coach.

But I agree with you in general as to judging Urb. There was a book written decades ago by 2 college professors called something like "Saturday's Heroes". It had chapters on various so-called rogue college football programs. The chapter on NU was based almost exclusively on the Detroit Free Press article I referenced earlier. Having done a great deal of research on the matter (as well as on an equally bogus article in the Boston Globe) I can truthfully say that pretty much the ONLY accurate information in the chapter on NU was the spelling of the players' names. That got my brain slowly creaking to life, wondering if the information in the other chapters on teams like Miami and Florida was equally flawed. So based on that, I tend to take reports on other teams that appear in the media with a grain of salt. A point you make well here.

Another example is Armen Keteyain's (sp) book Big Red Confidential. It was full of bogus material I heard AK admit as much in an interview on KOA radio out of Denver. He admitted that he did virtually no research himself, but hired students to do his research. And he paid them significant bonuses for digging up dirt. So what did poor college students do when they couldn't find real dirt? They made dirt up to get their bonuses. Which AK published without any vetting whatsoever, leading to a book that created a belief about NU's program that was completely bogus. At least the book went almost immediately to the remainder bins in B. Dalton. I got my copy for a buck.

I was almost going to post one more thing, but it is simply general rumors about Urbs and other coaches passed on to me by a friend who used to be an investigator for the NCAA. But he refused (correctly) to give me any specifics and I realize that if I posted his general feelings, I would be no better than the journalists that posted demonstrably inaccurate information about the NU program and TO. So I'll shut up now.
 
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I understand your position better now and realize that I may have been misreading you. Some minor points. CP never pled guilty to 3rd Degree Misdemeanor Assault (the lowest form of assault on the books). He pleaded no contest. CP also was never arrested. He was issued tickets on 3 different occasions, according to the official court records. However, 2 of the tickets did set forth multiple charges.

Also, things that happened after the players left are irrelevant as to TO. They have relevance to the players themselves, but not as to TO's actions when the players were on the team. So bringing up matters that happened decades after the player left the team (especially when the player was acquitted) is disingenuous at best when talking about the actions of a coach.

But I agree with you in general as to judging Urb. There was a book written decades ago by 2 college professors called something like "Saturday's Heroes". It had chapters on various so-called rogue college football programs. The chapter on NU was based almost exclusively on the Detroit Free Press article I referenced earlier. Having done a great deal of research on the matter (as well as on an equally bogus article in the Boston Globe) I can truthfully say that pretty much the ONLY accurate information in the chapter on NU was the spelling of the players' names. That got my brain slowly creaking to life, wondering if the information in the other chapters on teams like Miami and Florida was equally flawed. So based on that, I tend to take reports on other teams that appear in the media with a grain of salt. A point you make well here.

Another example is Armen Keteyain's (sp) book Big Red Confidential. It was full of bogus material I heard AK admit as much in an interview on KOA radio out of Denver. He admitted that he did virtually no research himself, but hired students to do his research. And he paid them significant bonuses for digging up dirt. So what did poor college students do when they couldn't find real dirt? They made dirt up to get their bonuses. Which AK published without any vetting whatsoever, leading to a book that created a belief about NU's program that was completely bogus. At least the book went almost immediately to the remainder bins in B. Dalton. I got my copy for a buck.

I was almost going to post one more thing, but it is simply general rumors about Urbs and other coaches passed on to me by a friend who used to be an investigator for the NCAA. But he refused (correctly) to give me any specifics and I realize that if I posted his general feelings, I would be no better than the journalists that posted demonstrably inaccurate information about the NU program and TO. So I'll shut up now.
Beatdown round 2 completed and in the books.

Someone please pull this guy off Solana before there is long term damage, doesn't look like a tapout is going to happen.
 
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Nov 14, 2005
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Beatdown round 2 completed and in the books.

Someone please pull this guy off Solana before there is long term damage, doesn't look like a tapout is going to happen.
Hahaha. Well, in all honesty, as I have a better understanding of what Solana is saying I think he and I agree on more than I originally thought. I was likely at fault, at least in part, in not understanding him. It's one of the problems with being "that guy".
 

gw2kpro

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Dec 2, 2007
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Beatdown round 2 completed and in the books.

Someone please pull this guy off Solana before there is long term damage, doesn't look like a tapout is going to happen.

Shhhh........ waiting to see if he ever gets to the correct number (been pointed out a couple times in this thread):

...coach Tom allowed one player to be arrested 9 times and gave him the spring game off...
......I will totally eat crow....it was EIGHT times! Thank God our great leader Tom drew the line at 8 arrests...
....... Peter was arrested 5 times from 1991 to 1993.......
 

Solana Beach Husker

Offensive Coordinator
Aug 8, 2008
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I understand your position better now and realize that I may have been misreading you. Some minor points. CP never pled guilty to 3rd Degree Misdemeanor Assault (the lowest form of assault on the books). He pleaded no contest. CP also was never arrested. He was issued tickets on 3 different occasions, according to the official court records. However, 2 of the tickets did set forth multiple charges.

Also, things that happened after the players left are irrelevant as to TO. They have relevance to the players themselves, but not as to TO's actions when the players were on the team. So bringing up matters that happened decades after the player left the team (especially when the player was acquitted) is disingenuous at best when talking about the actions of a coach.

But I agree with you in general as to judging Urb. There was a book written decades ago by 2 college professors called something like "Saturday's Heroes". It had chapters on various so-called rogue college football programs. The chapter on NU was based almost exclusively on the Detroit Free Press article I referenced earlier. Having done a great deal of research on the matter (as well as on an equally bogus article in the Boston Globe) I can truthfully say that pretty much the ONLY accurate information in the chapter on NU was the spelling of the players' names. That got my brain slowly creaking to life, wondering if the information in the other chapters on teams like Miami and Florida was equally flawed. So based on that, I tend to take reports on other teams that appear in the media with a grain of salt. A point you make well here.

Another example is Armen Keteyain's (sp) book Big Red Confidential. It was full of bogus material I heard AK admit as much in an interview on KOA radio out of Denver. He admitted that he did virtually no research himself, but hired students to do his research. And he paid them significant bonuses for digging up dirt. So what did poor college students do when they couldn't find real dirt? They made dirt up to get their bonuses. Which AK published without any vetting whatsoever, leading to a book that created a belief about NU's program that was completely bogus. At least the book went almost immediately to the remainder bins in B. Dalton. I got my copy for a buck.

I was almost going to post one more thing, but it is simply general rumors about Urbs and other coaches passed on to me by a friend who used to be an investigator for the NCAA. But he refused (correctly) to give me any specifics and I realize that if I posted his general feelings, I would be no better than the journalists that posted demonstrably inaccurate information about the NU program and TO. So I'll shut up now.
Thanks for the post. To me the interaction between media, local law enforcement, athletic departments, and prosecution is an impossible quagmire. It is obvious that national media can't be trusted but also that local media tends to skip investigations that are either out of their skillset or finances. I wonder if your next non-fiction venture could surround the involvement of rival teams and their resources producing media content and litigation that might effect competitive balance. I always wondered that Alabama has so much money and influence that they could effectively bring their rivals transgressions to light while they stay squeaky clean. Auburn, Ole Miss, Florida State all had major investigations while they were competing directly with Alabama and all have slumped, hit rock bottom, or had probation since.
 

Enrozes

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Oct 5, 2003
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I honestly don't know what being "the guy" here means. Is it just because I used reductio ad absurdum? Leaving aside the fact that, looking back, I was very likely wrong about what Solana was trying to say, I could have used the phrase "reductio ad absurdum" or I could have said "I think Solana is trying to show that what I said was wrong by showing that what I said, taken to its logical conclusion, leads to a bat-crap crazy result." No, as a successful writer of non-fiction and a (hopefully only in the short term) unsuccessful writer of fiction Strunk and White's cardinal rule of 'omit needless words" is in my bloodstream. So I used 'reductio ad absurdum' rather than use some 30 words to express the same point. But I suppose mentioning Strunk and White also makes me "that guy."
Smart word bad.
 
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