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Are you sure about that - "selfish people"? Or, are you soaking in what the TV and media tell us? I guess one person's perspective is another's argument And that my friends is all I have to say about that.
Is it commonly known that masks reduce the spread or not?

if the answer is yes it reduces the spread, then it is reasonable to ask and even mandate that people wear them when they are in a public setting. We have speed limit rules, DUI offenses and several others because of the impact on the safety to society as a whole. Yet people don’t argue about personal choice and freedom when it comes to these laws. Why is it any different?
 
Great point by Frost that keeping kids within the structure of a football team/season will keep them safer than having them meandering about the world. Same is true of all sports.
 
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Using the low end for infections at 3900 and the high end for deaths at 7 comes up with a fatality rate of .17%

How many players die each year from other causes ?
 
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My point is, what's the difference if they are playing football, drinking and dancing at a party, messing around at the beach......

College students aren't going to isolate anyway, so why not let them play football?
The experts will somehow have a high degree of certainty that it was the football, NOT after-hours get togethers that caused the dread disease. It won't be from the Fauci-endorsed Tinder hook-up. It'll be the pregame handshake.
 
In case you missed it, quite a few people on this board have had it already. I have a college aged kid who I'm afraid is going to be sitting at home taking classes on line that I'm paying 70K per year. And yeah my kid is on a college sports team. For a HEALTHY college aged kid this virus poses about as close to ZERO percent risk as it gets. I'm honestly more worried about some other infectious agent such as a strep than I am COVID for my 21 year old. I'm a medically trained professional. When "researchers" like this guy at Illinois release things like he did, the general is not equipped to analyze the projection with a critical eye.

I'm always amazed how often people go against their own self interest. Clearly your world view and the school you are paying 70K a year for don't align. I believe you have name dropped Harvard before, Mr Obama appreciates your generosity I'm sure.

At 70K a year, you could have selected an education for your child that was "non-snowflake" appropriate but apparently you feel the libruls need more conservative money :)

I disagree with the one post who said liability is overblown. Its unknown at this time. Its enough concern that the "non-snowflake" section of the political world has made it an anchor piece in any forthcoming COVID package on the Hill.

Now you have to figure out in a general sense, what percentage of college students are "healthy". Basically a quarter are obese according to several reports over the years. Who knows what else the rest of them have. I agree that overall risk to athletes is very low, but I disagree to the the level of non-chalantness Uni presidents will express about COVID when it comes to deciding for the whole Uni, and not just the most fit one tenth of one percent. And as stated before, they don't have a real good idea what they will and won't be paying out in court in the fall.

The only one who came close to that was the WVU president. All of the rest of the proclamations about football in particular have come with heavy caveats and backtracking, even from the almighty SEC. Red state, blue state, didn't matter. Folks are feeling frustrated sure, who were probably overly optmistic instead of looking at the real world statements by people who matter in front of them, but sort of an individual level of emotional control there.
 
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Scott Frost essentially makes this point that some players are likely to get it regardless of whether they are playing football or not. In fact, he suggests that the structure that football provides in players lives may make them less likely to get it because it motivates them to be more mindful of it.

Scott also made some good points about testing not necessarily being a panacea because there's an incubation period for the virus and then another delay in getting test results back. Which puts you basically on top of the next opponent in terms of timeline.

I did see in Twitter land, an article linked to UCF that quoted Bill Moos where he said something to the effect of we have to decide if we're having a season the third week of July. It seems unlikely we have this "under control" in three weeks for a return to "normal", so hopefully we can preserve as much of the season as we can.
 
The experts will somehow have a high degree of certainty that it was the football, NOT after-hours get togethers that caused the dread disease. It won't be from the Fauci-endorsed Tinder hook-up. It'll be the pregame handshake.

You don’t need any degree of certainty - just plausibility. That is enough to get a pretty hefty settlement to avoid litigation.
See the billion dollar payout by the NFL with regard to CTE

There is not going to be any degree of certainty around COVID going into the fall and possibly for sometime.

Those that are dismayed that scientists don’t have a new disease that has been present worldwide for all of 6-8 months all figured out including the potential long term sequela just don’t have the capacity to understand the complexity of the issue.

This isnt analogous to changing the oil in the Ford-150, or landing a fighter jet on an aircraft carrier.
 
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You don’t need any degree of certainty - just plausibility. That is enough to get a pretty hefty settlement to avoid litigation.

See the billion dollar payout by the NFL with regard to CTE

There is not going to be any degree of certainty around COVID going into the fall and possibly for sometime.

Those that are dismayed that scientists don’t have a new disease that has been present worldwide for all of 6-8 months all figured out including the potential long term sequela just don’t have the capacity to understand the complexity of the issue.

This isnt analogous to changing the oil in the Ford-150, or landing a fighter jet on an aircraft carrier.

Yah colleges are doing a bunch to address the spirit of public health guidance even if they can't meet it completely. Single resident dorms, masks everywhere, no more 400 student freshman chemistry classes, getting off campus by November, on-campus/online hybrid education model etc.

As far as I know, not one of them has stated they are comfortable that a Uni is a low risk environment because its predominantly youth who shouldn't be effected. (This probably wouldn't work well for them anyway, older employees are generally more aware of their legal options than an 18 year old who interested in chasing tail and going on benders anyway).

Edit: Maybe Liberty?
 
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controlling if/how players make a little walking around money is much more important to the ncaa than ensuring a uniform covid plan is in place

typical
 

controlling if/how players make a little walking around money is much more important to the ncaa than ensuring a uniform covid plan is in place

typical

Once again... highly contagious, not deadly. The common flu contributes more to the death toll than this scamdemic. Unless for reporting purposes of this, in which case ALL deaths are covid and the federal funds roll in. The more covid deaths (proven and unproven) reported, the more money you get. Do the math and follow the money.
 
Scott also made some good points about testing not necessarily being a panacea because there's an incubation period for the virus and then another delay in getting test results back. Which puts you basically on top of the next opponent in terms of timeline.

I did see in Twitter land, an article linked to UCF that quoted Bill Moos where he said something to the effect of we have to decide if we're having a season the third week of July. It seems unlikely we have this "under control" in three weeks for a return to "normal", so hopefully we can preserve as much of the season as we can.
That phrase "under control" is key. As long as people in power have "control of the virus" as a prerequisite for getting back to normal...well...might as well cancel everything. Getting control of fear and emotion (more possible than Covid control) developing treatment, being smart and living with it is the ticket.
 
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I'm always amazed how often people go against their own self interest. Clearly your world view and the school you are paying 70K a year for don't align. I believe you have name dropped Harvard before, Mr Obama appreciates your generosity I'm sure.

At 70K a year, you could have selected an education for your child that was "non-snowflake" appropriate but apparently you feel the libruls need more conservative money :)

I disagree with the one post who said liability is overblown. Its unknown at this time. Its enough concern that the "non-snowflake" section of the political world has made it an anchor piece in any forthcoming COVID package on the Hill.

Now you have to figure out in a general sense, what percentage of college students are "healthy". Basically a quarter are obese according to several reports over the years. Who knows what else the rest of them have. I agree that overall risk to athletes is very low, but I disagree to the the level of non-chalantness Uni presidents will express about COVID when it comes to deciding for the whole Uni, and not just the most fit one tenth of one percent. And as stated before, they don't have a real good idea what they will and won't be paying out in court in the fall.

The only one who came close to that was the WVU president. All of the rest of the proclamations about football in particular have come with heavy caveats and backtracking, even from the almighty SEC. Red state, blue state, didn't matter. Folks are feeling frustrated sure, who were probably overly optmistic instead of looking at the real world statements by people who matter in front of them, but sort of an individual level of emotional control there.
I persuaded an older kid from going to a highly ranked private university in favor of free at NU about 20 years ago and my wife wasn't very happy with me for a long time. It ended up working out well but when your kid gets in to the #1 ranked academic institution you swallow hard and write the checks. School would have been free at Nebraska and we're not residents. Trust me, we've had multiple discussions about the bias on campus but as a sophomore the kid already had the desired job offer in hand. Believe it or not, there have been a few conservatives graduate from there.

IF my kid had some health issues predisposing them to serious illness from COVID I would make them take classes online regardless of what happens with opening. Again, being 30 pounds overweight alone which is considered obese by just about every insurance or government metric does not increase your risk of death all that much from COVID. Morbidly obese, diabetic, heart disease, severe asthma, cystic fibrosis, cancer etc etc are the big tickets to assuming room temperature.
 
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Is it commonly known that masks reduce the spread or not?

if the answer is yes it reduces the spread, then it is reasonable to ask and even mandate that people wear them when they are in a public setting. We have speed limit rules, DUI offenses and several others because of the impact on the safety to society as a whole. Yet people don’t argue about personal choice and freedom when it comes to these laws. Why is it any different?

Yes. A thousand times yes. They just went over this last week on Fresh Air, and that's why you're seeing Dr. Fauci and even Mike Pence talk about them now.

What we've learned so far is that this is absolutely a respiratory virus:

1.) By far the most common way to get it is from the aerosol (micro-spit cloud) of another human, for x amount of time of exposure, with x being a huuuugely unknown variable that may even be different for other people versus yourself.

2.) It is possible but extremely unlikely to get this from surfaces. Keep washing your hands, because its smart, but know that you don't need to think too deeply about getting COVID-19 from touching stuff. It's unlikely to the point of "least concern."

3.) Outdoors is clean. It dilutes the spread of the virus from other humans. Patios, backyards, and outdoor seating at bars or restaurants is ok provided you are staying at a safe distance from other humans. This is why there haven't been tremendous spikes of cases in cities that have had massive protests; we learned that the outdoor air makes transmission of the virus quite difficult, so I now consider outdoors to be extremely safe.

4.) Masks cover your own aerosol, and likewise it covers another person's aerosol. Dr. Fauci and others are saying if anything could prevent a horrible second or third wave of this before a vaccine arrives, masks are going to be how we do it.

Lastly, I would say that nobody wants this. I don't care if you are young, or think you are low risk, or are arguing for stuff like that. You don't want to expose anyone to this that you don't have to. The unintended consequences of it are severe. It means sports may be a huge problem this fall, unfortunately, as are jobs and in-class schooling.
 

controlling if/how players make a little walking around money is much more important to the ncaa than ensuring a uniform covid plan is in place

typical

Lincoln Riley among others sort of opining that we should have an NCAA Goodell.

Historically folks around here and I would say college football in general have wanted the NCAA out of the way as much as possible.

Now the pendulum swings the other way. I'm sure the NCAA is happy to take whatever powers folks might want to hand them whether it's NIL or essentially complete control of the season.

This is another issue that will be interesting to follow.
 
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Lincoln Riley among others sort of opining that we should have an NCAA Goodell.

Historically folks around here and I would say college football in general have wanted the NCAA out of the way as much as possible.

Now the pendulum swings the other way. I'm sure the NCAA is happy to take whatever powers folks might want to hand them whether it's NIL or essentially complete control of the season.

This is another issue that will be interesting to follow.
As currently constructed, it makes sense. Real question is if current construction will allow college sports to necessarily evolve or if oversight should look different entirely.
 
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Hey IF they would let a 62 year old man with a hip prosthesis and who also needs a knee and the other hip replaced run down and cover kicks, I'M IN!!!! Your mistake is taking as gospel a "projection" from one college "researcher" looking to make a name for himself. What does the UNMC project? The CDC's numbers this guy used are for ALL people in that age group including people with some horrible disease processes.

Right now UNMC is saying "don't be like Texas"

https://www.omaha.com/livewellnebra...cle_38e24f5a-5665-56a9-9af5-7842732f2c49.html
 
That phrase "under control" is key. As long as people in power have "control of the virus" as a prerequisite for getting back to normal...well...might as well cancel everything. Getting control of fear and emotion (more possible than Covid control) developing treatment, being smart and living with it is the ticket.

South Carolina governor said today if they can't get the infection numbers under control he will not lift restrictions and there will be no high school or college football this fall in that corner of SEC country.

Pitino also publically asking the NCAA on social media to move basketball entirely into the spring and only play league games to give more time to develop treatment or vaccine options.

Edit: Georgia gov kemp also issue the same warning
 
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South Carolina governor said today if they can't get the infection numbers under control he will not lift restrictions and there will be no high school or college football this fall in that corner of SEC country.

Pitino also publically asking the NCAA on social media to move basketball entirely into the spring and only play league games to give more time to develop treatment or vaccine options.

Edit: Georgia gov kemp also issue the same warning
Always knew Henry McMaster and Brian Kemp were a couple uh them there blue state snowflake knucklehead libs.
 
South Carolina governor said today if they can't get the infection numbers under control he will not lift restrictions and there will be no high school or college football this fall in that corner of SEC country.

Pitino also publically asking the NCAA on social media to move basketball entirely into the spring and only play league games to give more time to develop treatment or vaccine options.

Edit: Georgia gov kemp also issue the same warning
same threats issued to Nebraskans and Alabamans the first time around.

point of clarity on Petino’s tweet: he said start in Jan, which would push back the season by ~6 weeks and a dozen or so games.
 
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same threats issued to Nebraskans and Alabamans the first time around.

point of clarity on Petino’s tweet: he said start in Jan, which would push back the season by ~6 weeks and a dozen or so games.

Yah it appears most of the SEC is now hopping on this "mask now or no football" train.

MSU apparently abandons tailgates this fall

 
South Carolina governor said today if they can't get the infection numbers under control he will not lift restrictions and there will be no high school or college football this fall in that corner of SEC country.

Pitino also publically asking the NCAA on social media to move basketball entirely into the spring and only play league games to give more time to develop treatment or vaccine options.

Edit: Georgia gov kemp also issue the same warning
If we are waiting for a vaccine or 100% safety, we'll be waiting for a long time, I'm afraid. Saw a statistic where annual flu has, historically, caused 8x more hospitalization and dire illness in kids than Covid, yet some schools are requiring masks for all?? I feel like I missed a real opportunity for panic in 2017 when flu killed 400 Nebraskans.
 
If we are waiting for a vaccine or 100% safety, we'll be waiting for a long time, I'm afraid. Saw a statistic where annual flu has, historically, caused 8x more hospitalization and dire illness in kids than Covid, yet some schools are requiring masks for all?? I feel like I missed a real opportunity for panic in 2017 when flu killed 400 Nebraskans.

Not sure what the answer is. I'm not personally super scared of this thing. Yes it would suck if I got it and died as the sole breadwinner for my family but the odds are low.

But I do know this. Three quarters of Americans are concerned about it. University president's and governor in both red and blue states are concerned about it. The whole college football apparatus is concerned about it. To include the almighty SEC.

Senate Republicans are breaking from the President and endorsing masks with the entirety of the Deep South and Bible belt in order to save college football.

We're about four months too late to continue down deflection towards the flu or claims of political conspiracy theories.

If recent evidence about the South and college football have demonstrate anything...it's that American aren't going to budge off their path until they get to a point of inevitability.

Which for folks who want to talk about living with this like the flu will probably have to wait until the pharma industry demonstrate it doesn't have a vaccine in the horizon in 2021.
 
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Not sure what the answer is. I'm not personally super scared of this thing. Yes it would suck if I got it and died as the sole breadwinner for my family but the odds are low.

But I do know this. Three quarters of Americans are concerned about it. University president's and governor in both red and blue states are concerned about it. The whole college football apparatus is concerned about it. To include the almighty SEC.

Senate Republicans are breaking from the President and endorsing masks with the entirety of the Deep South and Bible belt in order to save college football.

We're about four months too late to continue down deflection towards the flu or claims of political conspiracy theories.

If recent evidence about the South and college football have demonstrate anything...it's that American aren't going to budge off their path until they get to a point of inevitability.

Which for folks who want to talk about living with this like the flu will probably have to wait until the pharma industry demonstrate it doesn't have a vaccine in the horizon in 2021.

Which regretfully is not quick enough to impact this season.
 
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Not sure what the answer is. I'm not personally super scared of this thing. Yes it would suck if I got it and died as the sole breadwinner for my family but the odds are low.

But I do know this. Three quarters of Americans are concerned about it. University president's and governor in both red and blue states are concerned about it. The whole college football apparatus is concerned about it. To include the almighty SEC.

Senate Republicans are breaking from the President and endorsing masks with the entirety of the Deep South and Bible belt in order to save college football.

We're about four months too late to continue down deflection towards the flu or claims of political conspiracy theories.

If recent evidence about the South and college football have demonstrate anything...it's that American aren't going to budge off their path until they get to a point of inevitability.

Which for folks who want to talk about living with this like the flu will probably have to wait until the pharma industry demonstrate it doesn't have a vaccine in the horizon in 2021.
It obviously isn't the flu. Worse for some and not as bad for the young. Had nursing homes not been used and abused, the numbers actually would be flu-like, however. The media's ability to create, promote and fan the flames of panic does not bode well for the future of the USA. I am not a conspiracy theorist, but it is pretty obvious the MSM has a sky-is-falling, and it's you-know- who that is causing it, agenda. There is no way in Hades the coverage would be like this 5 years ago. Not even close. Makes me wonder how the reaction amongst the different states would be different, also.
 
exactly. They don't consider in their ludicrous "projection" that football players actually have some degree of cardiovascular fitness AND generally aren't 320 lbs with diabetes. The CDC includes all people in that age group regardless of their health or condition.

You don't know that. As far as I can tell, the actual study isn't available to read anywhere. So that's wild speculation.

It does say things like "Taking into account that range and medical care provided for football players, the death rate would be lower than the general population" so I think it's silly to assume they aren't considering at least some of these factors.
 
Here's the ethical dilemma. If we assume that:
  • 5 players will die in CFB if we play (the middle of the 3-7 range)
  • Around 13,000 players in FBS
  • Nebraska's roster will be around 150 players (one of the largest in the nation)
Then the numbers say:
  • 12,995 players in CFB survive the season
  • Each player has a 99.962% survival probability (12995/13000)
  • The probability that all Nebraska players survive the season is about 94.5% (0.99962^150)
  • So roughly a 5% chance that a Nebraska player dies
If you're a parent, are you going to let your kid play? If you're Frost or Moos are you ok with that kind of risk? We should consider that players get hurt and are able to recover from lost seasons, so I don't think a single missed season would necessarily ruin all the players' NFL prospects. Especially if they are given another year of eligibility.

To take that further, if the 14 teams in the B1G have roughly 1400 players, then that's roughly a 41% chance that a player dies in the B1G. If you're the commissioner are you ok with those numbers?
 
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Here's the ethical dilemma. If we assume that:
  • 5 players will die in CFB if we play (the middle of the 3-7 range)
  • Around 13,000 players in FBS
  • Nebraska's roster will be around 150 players (one of the largest in the nation)
Then the numbers say:
  • 12,995 players in CFB survive the season
  • Each player has a 99.962% survival probability (12995/13000)
  • The probability that all Nebraska players survive the season is about 94.5% (0.99962^150)
  • So roughly a 5% chance that a Nebraska player dies
If you're a parent, are you going to let your kid play? If you're Frost or Moos are you ok with that kind of risk? We should consider that players get hurt and are able to recover from lost seasons, so I don't think a single missed season would necessarily ruin all the players' NFL prospects. Especially if they are given another year of eligibility.

To take that further, if the 14 teams in the B1G have roughly 1400 players, then that's roughly a 41% chance that a player dies in the B1G. If you're the commissioner are you ok with those numbers?
My problem with all of that is who's to say 5 players aren't going to die even if they don't have football? Some things we have real statistics on. Covid-19 we don't. So people just make a bunch of shit up. I'm kind of a realist. If it usually takes about 18 months to develop a legit vaccine then I'm going to assume it's going to take roughly 18 months to develop this vaccine, until I see otherwise. So in the meantime are we going to stop living and cower in our houses? I say play ball and adjust as needed.
 
My problem with all of that is who's to say 5 players aren't going to die even if they don't have football? Some things we have real statistics on. Covid-19 we don't. So people just make a bunch of shit up. I'm kind of a realist. If it usually takes about 18 months to develop a legit vaccine then I'm going to assume it's going to take roughly 18 months to develop this vaccine, until I see otherwise. So in the meantime are we going to stop living and cower in our houses? I say play ball and adjust as needed.

Given new technology 18 months might be possible - this time frame, however, would be unprecedented.

the quickest vaccine ever developed was mumps - it took 4 years
 
Using the low end for infections at 3900 and the high end for deaths at 7 comes up with a fatality rate of .17%

How many players die each year from other causes ?
I don't know.....but I would bet that none of those other causes are from illnesses that they contracted from the guy lined up across the LOS from them during the course of a game.
 
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