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The reality of our situation

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I think the OP is right about the B1G conference being stronger than the typical Big 8 conference, if we don’t cherry pick the few years that the Big 8 had a lot of good teams. But if we accept that as fact, it is ridiculous to be this bad. We can’t block, can’t tackle, can’t play special teams and may be the most mistake prone team in the world. That’s not scheduling. 12-20 is due to how bad we are, not how tough we have it schedule wise.

He is not right about the B1G being stronger. Like I posted above from 70-95,(the last 25 years of the conference), the Big 8 had 8 National Championship teams and the B1G had 1.

And that one claimed title was by OSU, in a season (1970) in which they lost their bowl game. Nebraska would have many more titles if they did nonsense like that.
 
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Well maybe if they ran them correctly like throwing a catchable pass instead of throwing it behind the line which happen not once but twice with 2 turnovers to start the Friken game leading toward 2 TD for the opponents we would be less obsessed over swing passes...

One of the years with Crouch, we started multiple games with a turnover on the first play. Guess we should have canceled the option and the toss sweep.
 
I’m 45 and, was lucky enough to be around to enjoy our amazing run in the 90’s. The fact is our reality was much different at that time.

* The Big Eight was NOT a very good football conference. We very much benefited from a weak conference schedule, and by the 90s OU was struggling.

* NCAA was just getting going with steroid testing and I don’t think that the conference tested. We were also on the cutting edge with regard to our S&C/nutrition programs...everyone does this now.

* We benefitted from low academic standards and partial qualifiers...Texas ended the partial qualifiers.

* 95-92 scholarship limit benefitted the blue bloods. Also our in state walk-on program got quite a few kids that seem to end up at places like Wyoming and the Dakotas these days.

*Our recruiting was not what people seem to remember. We had some our our greatest success leading up to and during that run, but we also benefitted from an unusual amount of local talent over those years. That said, even during our best years we did not ever have a draft class that matches some of the NFL drafts Ohio St, Bama, and Clemson have put together over the last few years. Sure we were close a few of those years, but we had a lot of mid to late round picks.

* Our success on the national scene was up and down. For years leading up to that run, we had struggled mightily in bowl games.


As much as I hate to admit it (and I’m a bit of a pessimist in these matters),I don’t ever think we will see a run anywhere near what we did back then. As fans, we need to rethink our expectations (most of us have). When Frost was hired, I told myself that he was the guy and that he would have my support until he wanted to move on.
That said, four years in the product we are putting on the field is unacceptable with the resources we still have. SF is clearly a poor game coach, and we are not getting better. Worse yet, somehow I really think he believed that we would be a good football team this year. I don’t expect to ever see much improvement in our program under Frost.
There's some truth to this, but it misses a lot of important context. Nebraska won championships in the 90s, but they were also THE team of the 80s. Yes they lost on the national stage, sometimes embarrassingly so, but we were often playing extraordinarily dominant teams in Miami and FSU. Off the top of my head, during that 7-year stretch of bowl losses we played three teams that won the National Championship. In other words, we were playing the very best of the best. I also remember losing to Michigan in there somewhere, and that game was very close.

Nebraska has had some terrific recruiting classes over the years, and we always manage to bring in talent, but coaching and culture made all the difference. There is no doubt that Nebraska's geography is a challenge that teams in Texas, California and the Southeast don't face. And I don't think most objective people expect a return to the 90s, after all very few teams ever enjoy that level of success. But there is no reason to think we can't be a top team again.

The Big 10 is a stronger conference now than when we joined a decade ago, but we do not play in the most dominant division. We really need Frost to improve as a coach, and if he is incapable of improvement, then we need the right coach who understands the state and region, which is essential for recruiting and maintaining a robust walk-on program. We are consistently recruiting ahead of our our division rivals. Where we have failed miserably is in developing the talent. Assuming we turn that corner, it is feasible to gain a consistent edge in our division. We aren't going to out recruit OSU, but with top 20 classes, the occasional top 10 class, the right system, player development and coaching, Nebraska should do just fine.

I roll my eyes when I hear/read a take that suggests scholarship limits and the fact that every team now enjoys the benefits of televised games is somehow a detriment to Nebraska. The logic is faulty. The same things benefitting the Boise States and Cincinnatis of the world similarly benefit Nebraska. The argument that Nebraska is too hard to recruit to, but somehow Boise State is a cinch doesn't follow. If anything, that traditional powerhouse teams can no longer stockpile talent in the same way probably benefits Nebraska more than it does low tier teams. Sure they'll improve, but we'll also have a better shot at drawing in kids that never would have thought of Nebraska in earlier generations.
 
One of the years with Crouch, we started multiple games with a turnover on the first play. Guess we should have canceled the option and the toss sweep.

Would you like to refresh my memory all these multiple games Crouch had with turnovers on the first play besides Dan Alexander 10 thumbs catching a option pitch..
 
I think the second half of the Rutgers game was just that(the whole game really, we just stopped turning it over and wore them down the second half). I know it was one game out of three years, but they had to see how a diverse running game worked, right? Option, zone read, pistol, play action. That needs to be that blueprint moving forward. We can win with that offensive identity.
I agree
 
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basically we went away from the run, and disaster has been the result.
 
He is not right about the B1G being stronger. Like I posted above from 70-95,(the last 25 years of the conference), the Big 8 had 8 National Championship teams and the B1G had 1.

And that one claimed title was by OSU, in a season (1970) in which they lost their bowl game. Nebraska would have many more titles if they did nonsense like that.
Ok, we can debate this to death but you are comparing the old Big 2 Little 8 version of the B1G, which admittedly was awful in most years (other than UM and OSU). Teams like Iowa, Wisconsin and Minny were horrible, but what does that have to do with the present?

Although we can disagree I think the current B1G is much stronger than what we faced in most Big 8 seasons. As great as TO was, a 250-50 record against this current B1G competition would be a pretty tough haul for even TO. While there were certainly years that the Big 8 had multiple great teams, it was much more common that we had a pretty easy road until Turkey Day when we played the Sooners. (Big 2 Little 6) But feel free to disagree. I can see this is going nowhere fast.
 
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I do not think talent wise our talent was not down that much even when Frost came, He and his staff were
out manned as far as coaching experience goes in the Big Ten, and Frankly game plans I believe are
fundamentally flawed. Certainly a great QB would have turned losing season into bowl games. The QBs
that left Nebraska turned out to be better than the ones he kept.
none of the QBs who left NU when Frost came in have had any more success than Adrian. You could argue that each has their own quality that maybe Adrian doesn't bring to the table. Gebbia is probably a more accurate passer. Vedral seems to have that gym rat mentality that serves him well and he's a reasonably good runner. Neither of those guys has been able to stay healthy and neither have the kind of physical ability of Adrian. Adrian's downside obviously has been the turnovers and passing accuracy. Gebbia and Vedral both have had issues with turnovers.
 
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I’m 45 and, was lucky enough to be around to enjoy our amazing run in the 90’s. The fact is our reality was much different at that time.

* The Big Eight was NOT a very good football conference. We very much benefited from a weak conference schedule, and by the 90s OU was struggling.

* NCAA was just getting going with steroid testing and I don’t think that the conference tested. We were also on the cutting edge with regard to our S&C/nutrition programs...everyone does this now.

* We benefitted from low academic standards and partial qualifiers...Texas ended the partial qualifiers.

* 95-92 scholarship limit benefitted the blue bloods. Also our in state walk-on program got quite a few kids that seem to end up at places like Wyoming and the Dakotas these days.

*Our recruiting was not what people seem to remember. We had some our our greatest success leading up to and during that run, but we also benefitted from an unusual amount of local talent over those years. That said, even during our best years we did not ever have a draft class that matches some of the NFL drafts Ohio St, Bama, and Clemson have put together over the last few years. Sure we were close a few of those years, but we had a lot of mid to late round picks.

* Our success on the national scene was up and down. For years leading up to that run, we had struggled mightily in bowl games.


As much as I hate to admit it (and I’m a bit of a pessimist in these matters),I don’t ever think we will see a run anywhere near what we did back then. As fans, we need to rethink our expectations (most of us have). When Frost was hired, I told myself that he was the guy and that he would have my support until he wanted to move on.
That said, four years in the product we are putting on the field is unacceptable with the resources we still have. SF is clearly a poor game coach, and we are not getting better. Worse yet, somehow I really think he believed that we would be a good football team this year. I don’t expect to ever see much improvement in our program under Frost.

This might go down as the absolute worst post of all time. We have resources, fans and a great history. Winning solves a lot of problems. Stop glossing over our history like we were only good because of steroids and a weak Big 8. It’s a joke and you’re a complete clown. If you want to blame somebody for our current situation, point at decades of poor leadership and coaching hires post Osborne. I think everybody wants Frost to succeed but he is learning how to coach at this level with a staff that is learning as well. We make our own problems.
 
There's nothing more crazy on this board than the obsession with the swing pass. If you run a toss sweep for a yard, no one says a thing. If you run a swing pass for a yard, it's the only thing talked about for the week. It's just like any other play, you have to execute it correctly.
the swing pass is designed with the hope of getting a guy in space where he can make somebody miss and get a chunk play. It IS usually a pretty high percentage play that should be as easy to execute as a toss sweep. That hasn't been the case at times for our QBs. IF you can't run the ball inside to keep the linebackers and safeties honest though, it's tougher to execute in the passing game be it swing passes or any other pass.
 
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I never bought the notion that if Frost can’t get us there, no one can. I think most of us have figured it out that Frost maybe isn’t a very good play caller/preparation coach, which will lead to head scratching losses. But I will say, it’s not easy building Nebraska. It’s at a major disadvantage when it comes to recruiting but on the flip side, the resources and money is top tier. We might not see a 90s run ever again, but I have faith that some coach will get us playing for a championship.
This is so true, if Coaches can have winning years in places like Ames and Manhattan it can happen in Lincoln. It's all about getting the right guy. Def easier said than done esp for us...
 
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I think the OP is right about the B1G conference being stronger than the typical Big 8 conference, if we don’t cherry pick the few years that the Big 8 had a lot of good teams. But if we accept that as fact, it is ridiculous to be this bad. We can’t block, can’t tackle, can’t play special teams and may be the most mistake prone team in the world. That’s not scheduling. 12-20 is due to how bad we are, not how tough we have it schedule wise.


1970 - present

more than 2 teams finish in the top 10 -- big8/12 - 7 -- BIG - 10
at least 2 teams finish in the top 10 -- big8/12 -- 26 -- BIG - 28
 
The Big 8 was a great football conference. How the f*ck does someone come to the conclusion they weren’t??
If you claim the big 8 wasn’t a good football conference, then that literally means every single other football conference was complete garbage as well.
PAC-10 = just USC
Big East= just Miami
ACC= just FSU
$EC= just Florida, Tennessee, Alabama
Big 8= just Nebraska, Oklahoma, Colorado
SWC= just texass
Big 10= just Ohio State and Michigan
I only see two conferences that produced 3 NC teams when Nebraska was “taking advantage of a bad football conference”

The prop 48 thing is also complete bullsh*t.
Oklahoma relied on twice as many prop 48 players than Nebraska ever did and the conference as a whole, used LESS prop 48 players than the Big 10!! The people that bring up the prop 48 thing are either trolls, or are so grossly uneducated about prop 48 players that they’ve succumbed to listening to the trolls that use it to try to troll Nebraska.
 
the swing pass is designed with the hope of getting a guy in space where he can make somebody miss and get a chunk play. It IS usually a pretty high percentage play that should be as easy to execute as a toss sweep. That hasn't been the case at times for our QBs. IF you can't run the ball inside to keep the linebackers and safeties honest though, it's tougher to execute in the passing game be it swing passes or any other pass.

My completely non-scientific theory is that at Oregon and UCF, Frost did not face defenses that tackle as well as Big Ten defenses. Fewer missed tackles on those swing passes make that play very ineffective in the B1G.
 
My completely non-scientific theory is that at Oregon and UCF, Frost did not face defenses that tackle as well as Big Ten defenses. Fewer missed tackles on those swing passes make that play very ineffective in the B1G.
Every team in the country including the NFL runs swing passes. Teams use it to stretch the field side to side in part to keep teams from loading the box with safeties. Tom used quick sideline and swing passes as well when people loaded the box. It's just part of your playbook to respond to what defenses are doing to you. Alabama runs swing passes very effectively often for chunk gains. Hell my lowly Vikes love to get a swing pass out to Cook to get him in space for chunk plays.

No doubt those plays worked better at Oregon when they had NFL caliber RBs and Mariota throwing them the ball.
 
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I’m 45 and, was lucky enough to be around to enjoy our amazing run in the 90’s. The fact is our reality was much different at that time.

* The Big Eight was NOT a very good football conference. We very much benefited from a weak conference schedule, and by the 90s OU was struggling.

* NCAA was just getting going with steroid testing and I don’t think that the conference tested. We were also on the cutting edge with regard to our S&C/nutrition programs...everyone does this now.

* We benefitted from low academic standards and partial qualifiers...Texas ended the partial qualifiers.

* 95-92 scholarship limit benefitted the blue bloods. Also our in state walk-on program got quite a few kids that seem to end up at places like Wyoming and the Dakotas these days.

*Our recruiting was not what people seem to remember. We had some our our greatest success leading up to and during that run, but we also benefitted from an unusual amount of local talent over those years. That said, even during our best years we did not ever have a draft class that matches some of the NFL drafts Ohio St, Bama, and Clemson have put together over the last few years. Sure we were close a few of those years, but we had a lot of mid to late round picks.

* Our success on the national scene was up and down. For years leading up to that run, we had struggled mightily in bowl games.


As much as I hate to admit it (and I’m a bit of a pessimist in these matters),I don’t ever think we will see a run anywhere near what we did back then. As fans, we need to rethink our expectations (most of us have). When Frost was hired, I told myself that he was the guy and that he would have my support until he wanted to move on.
That said, four years in the product we are putting on the field is unacceptable with the resources we still have. SF is clearly a poor game coach, and we are not getting better. Worse yet, somehow I really think he believed that we would be a good football team this year. I don’t expect to ever see much improvement in our program under Frost.
You lost me when you said the Big 8
Wasn’t good. That’s far from the truth...
 
Exactly. I would also add one more thing to my musings today on going back to our more traditional offensive identity. The fans. I remember when we played OSU in Lincoln in Frost's first year and when he came out in one series and ran the I formation with a fullback for four or five plays the crowd went apeshit berserk. I was dancing a jig in my living room watching the game all hopped-up on bourbon and happy as hell. I think our fans would absolutely love a return to our older way of doing things.
Osborne had only 13 different formations. Fortunately, by adding wrinkles to the 13 formations he had opposing defenses running around like organ grinder's monkeys by the third quarter.
 
This might go down as the absolute worst post of all time. We have resources, fans and a great history. Winning solves a lot of problems. Stop glossing over our history like we were only good because of steroids and a weak Big 8. It’s a joke and you’re a complete clown. If you want to blame somebody for our current situation, point at decades of poor leadership and coaching hires post Osborne. I think everybody wants Frost to succeed but he is learning how to coach at this level with a staff that is learning as well. We make our own problems.

Well then, you clearly missed the entire COVID shutdown and all the “expertise” being laid down on this board.

It was flat-earther, anti-vaxxer, home-schooler central. Experts everywhere!!!
 
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Yep. Frost's offense is just too cute sometimes. All of that pussy football with the swing passes has got to go. Just like against Rutgers when we had Mills running great and had just ripped off a fifty yard run, when we get to the two yard line we start running Wandale up the middle. Good grief. I know Mills probably needed a breather, but at that point, in the interests of instilling in your players a sense that this is not pussy football, you leave Mills in to finish the deed.

Amen. Those endless horizontal passes just MUST be cut down. We've all seen what results we get with fluff-ball. Clownahan, Smiling Mike & so sadly HCSF. Losing, losing & more losing.

I still have hope with HCSF. But he simply has to fully move to what we really, really need as you've stated Penny.
 
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Don’t need a lot of posts to call out foolish behavior.
You’re suspicion of trolls is a bit creepy.
Okay jlb. making another name up on a board of a team you dislike is over the top..
That’s why your only responding to my post.Laughing
 
Osborne had only 13 different formations. Fortunately, by adding wrinkles to the 13 formations he had opposing defenses running around like organ grinder's monkeys by the third quarter.
TO didn’t run a whole lot of different plays, but he did use a whole lot of different formations. He was really ahead of his time as far as the numbers game in the running game was concerned. He was running a modern spread running game 25 years ago.
 
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I’m 45 and, was lucky enough to be around to enjoy our amazing run in the 90’s. The fact is our reality was much different at that time.

* The Big Eight was NOT a very good football conference. We very much benefited from a weak conference schedule, and by the 90s OU was struggling.

* NCAA was just getting going with steroid testing and I don’t think that the conference tested. We were also on the cutting edge with regard to our S&C/nutrition programs...everyone does this now.

* We benefitted from low academic standards and partial qualifiers...Texas ended the partial qualifiers.

* 95-92 scholarship limit benefitted the blue bloods. Also our in state walk-on program got quite a few kids that seem to end up at places like Wyoming and the Dakotas these days.

*Our recruiting was not what people seem to remember. We had some our our greatest success leading up to and during that run, but we also benefitted from an unusual amount of local talent over those years. That said, even during our best years we did not ever have a draft class that matches some of the NFL drafts Ohio St, Bama, and Clemson have put together over the last few years. Sure we were close a few of those years, but we had a lot of mid to late round picks.

* Our success on the national scene was up and down. For years leading up to that run, we had struggled mightily in bowl games.


As much as I hate to admit it (and I’m a bit of a pessimist in these matters),I don’t ever think we will see a run anywhere near what we did back then. As fans, we need to rethink our expectations (most of us have). When Frost was hired, I told myself that he was the guy and that he would have my support until he wanted to move on.
That said, four years in the product we are putting on the field is unacceptable with the resources we still have. SF is clearly a poor game coach, and we are not getting better. Worse yet, somehow I really think he believed that we would be a good football team this year. I don’t expect to ever see much improvement in our program under Frost.
1) The Big 8/Big 12 was (team for team) probably the elite conference for much of the 90s. The conference was dominant in bowl games and head-to-head in non-conference matchups. NU, KSU, Colorado, Texas, Texas A&M, and OU at the start of the 2000s were routinely in the top 25. So you are just flat out wrong on that point.
2) Steroids were a common thing in the 70s and 80s but not just by NU. By the 90s they were really a thing of the past.
3) The scholarship limits actually benefitted NU at first because its walk-on program was so good at bolstering the recruiting classes. Other universities had to hit or miss almost entirely with recruits, where NU could count on 4-5 good starters (often AA level) coming from the walk-ons. Over-signing and the transfer portal have completely negated any benefit that this once provided.
Saban really made over-signing and forced attrition a standard in the blue blood programs. It used to be that universities kept marginal players on the roster and just accepted that they missed on a recruit. Saban basically pushed non-starters out to free up scholarships and ensure as high quality a roster as possible. It's cold, but it works. NU still maintains the kinder approach that takes forever to push a non-contributor player to move on.
The transfer poral and 4 game eligibility rules have further change the game. Players can stick around just long enough to decide whether to stay or transfer and they can transfer 2-3 times. It's become free agency without any real restrictions. The days of a player committing and sticking it out are just gone. I wish the NCAA would reverse this rule because it's damaging the game and only really benefitting the most powerful schools.
4) NU's 90s teams were rich in NFL talent. I believe the entire defense on the 95 team played in the NFL and there were a few pro-bowlers. NU may not match the current output of Bama, Clemson, or Ohio St, but there were turning out quality NFL players at a good rate. That only really ended in the past 5 years.
5) True, but NU was also always facing one of two elite teams in Miami and FSU (Georgia Tech was the only other team NU faced). Playing those teams helped NU evolve by changing to a faster, attacking defensive scheme. NU had a great track record against the Pac-10, ACC, SEC, and Big 10 throughout that era.
 
Hi, I'm earth. Have we met?

You called a post “worst”. We have plenty of horrible takes during football season...but I disagreed with you that any of them could even sniff the level of shutdown season posts.

Don’t take it personal bud.
 
As I've said many times, I don't really care what style of offense Frost chooses or what the run/pass ratio is. But to win consistently in a major conference, you have to be at least above-average in the trenches. When your reigning Offensive Lineman of the Year is Matt Farniok, you're going to be a bad football team.
 
Washington was a great PAC-10 team in the Don James/Jim Lambright years well before Chris Peterson and the CFP. Consistently good QB play.
 
You called a post “worst”. We have plenty of horrible takes during football season...but I disagreed with you that any of them could even sniff the level of shutdown season posts.

Don’t take it personal bud.
Your screen name is dumb
 
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