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The reality of our situation

Jul 2, 2020
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I’m 45 and, was lucky enough to be around to enjoy our amazing run in the 90’s. The fact is our reality was much different at that time.

* The Big Eight was NOT a very good football conference. We very much benefited from a weak conference schedule, and by the 90s OU was struggling.

* NCAA was just getting going with steroid testing and I don’t think that the conference tested. We were also on the cutting edge with regard to our S&C/nutrition programs...everyone does this now.

* We benefitted from low academic standards and partial qualifiers...Texas ended the partial qualifiers.

* 95-92 scholarship limit benefitted the blue bloods. Also our in state walk-on program got quite a few kids that seem to end up at places like Wyoming and the Dakotas these days.

*Our recruiting was not what people seem to remember. We had some our our greatest success leading up to and during that run, but we also benefitted from an unusual amount of local talent over those years. That said, even during our best years we did not ever have a draft class that matches some of the NFL drafts Ohio St, Bama, and Clemson have put together over the last few years. Sure we were close a few of those years, but we had a lot of mid to late round picks.

* Our success on the national scene was up and down. For years leading up to that run, we had struggled mightily in bowl games.


As much as I hate to admit it (and I’m a bit of a pessimist in these matters),I don’t ever think we will see a run anywhere near what we did back then. As fans, we need to rethink our expectations (most of us have). When Frost was hired, I told myself that he was the guy and that he would have my support until he wanted to move on.
That said, four years in the product we are putting on the field is unacceptable with the resources we still have. SF is clearly a poor game coach, and we are not getting better. Worse yet, somehow I really think he believed that we would be a good football team this year. I don’t expect to ever see much improvement in our program under Frost.
 
I’m 45 and, was lucky enough to be around to enjoy our amazing run in the 90’s. The fact is our reality was much different at that time.

* The Big Eight was NOT a very good football conference. We very much benefited from a weak conference schedule, and by the 90s OU was struggling.

* NCAA was just getting going with steroid testing and I don’t think that the conference tested. We were also on the cutting edge with regard to our S&C/nutrition programs...everyone does this now.

* We benefitted from low academic standards and partial qualifiers...Texas ended the partial qualifiers.

* 95-92 scholarship limit benefitted the blue bloods. Also our in state walk-on program got quite a few kids that seem to end up at places like Wyoming and the Dakotas these days.

*Our recruiting was not what people seem to remember. We had some our our greatest success leading up to and during that run, but we also benefitted from an unusual amount of local talent over those years. That said, even during our best years we did not ever have a draft class that matches some of the NFL drafts Ohio St, Bama, and Clemson have put together over the last few years. Sure we were close a few of those years, but we had a lot of mid to late round picks.

* Our success on the national scene was up and down. For years leading up to that run, we had struggled mightily in bowl games.


As much as I hate to admit it (and I’m a bit of a pessimist in these matters),I don’t ever think we will see a run anywhere near what we did back then. As fans, we need to rethink our expectations (most of us have). When Frost was hired, I told myself that he was the guy and that he would have my support until he wanted to move on.
That said, four years in the product we are putting on the field is unacceptable with the resources we still have. SF is clearly a poor game coach, and we are not getting better. Worse yet, somehow I really think he believed that we would be a good football team this year. I don’t expect to ever see much improvement in our program under Frost.
I do not think talent wise our talent was not down that much even when Frost came, He and his staff were
out manned as far as coaching experience goes in the Big Ten, and Frankly game plans I believe are
fundamentally flawed. Certainly a great QB would have turned losing season into bowl games. The QBs
that left Nebraska turned out to be better than the ones he kept.
 
The QBs
that left Nebraska turned out to be better than the ones he kept.
Are they? Or are they just being put in better situations to help their teams win?

We saw Vedral last year. He was nothing special. I wouldn’t say he was much of a step down from Martinez, if at all. But I wouldn’t say he was better either.

Let’s say Martinez transferred to another school where he was named the starter. I have a feeling he’d do okay just like Gebbia and Vedral. This seems to be more of a coaching issue than a situation where we're letting our best QBs walk away.
 
Are they? Or are they just being put in better situations to help their teams win?

We saw Vedral last year. He was nothing special. I wouldn’t say he was much of a step down from Martinez, if at all. But I wouldn’t say he was better either.

Let’s say Martinez transferred to another school where he was named the starter. I have a feeling he’d do okay just like Gebbia and Vedral. This seems to be more of a coaching issue than a situation where we're letting our best QBs walk away.
No they didn’t. Statistically they are worse and they are on worse teams. There really is no way to say Vedral. Gebbia or O’Brien turned out better.
 
No they didn’t. Statistically they are worse and they are on worse teams. There really is no way to say Vedral. Gebbia or O’Brien turned out better.
No kidding. How many times do Vedral's wretched stats have to be posted here before the man-crush finally fades? I have nothing against the guy, and I'm glad he found a program where he could get playing time. But Rutgers won one game with him at QB, and it was against a horrible Michigan State team that turned the ball over 7 times.
 
I’m 45 and, was lucky enough to be around to enjoy our amazing run in the 90’s. The fact is our reality was much different at that time.

* The Big Eight was NOT a very good football conference. We very much benefited from a weak conference schedule, and by the 90s OU was struggling.

Here is why this post lost all credibility with me.
Regarding scheduling and the Big 8 being weak, at the end of the 95 season, the big 8 had 4 top 10 teams

NU
Colorado
KSU
KU

plus NU whipped the Gators who also finished top 10

so while OU was down, other were up

Thanks for posting this too many people don’t realize the Big 8 had 4 teams finish in the top 10 in the country..

B1G never had 4 teams that finished in the top 10 in the country at seasons end...
 
Here is why this post lost all credibility with me.


Thanks for posting this too many people don’t realize the Big 8 had 4 teams finish in the top 10 in the country..

B1G never had 4 teams that finished in the top 10 in the country at seasons end...

well I heard one year, Iowa was SO good that their first team finished ranked second but the second, third and fourth string guys were ranked 4,5 and 8 respectively. Scout team almost cracked the top 10 as wel
 
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B1G never had 4 teams that finished in the top 10 in the country at seasons end...
Nope...True

Name your team or GTFO

Penn St was never a original member so using them along with Nebraska how many teams did the conference have to achieve it.

4 out of 8 very impressive and none of them had more than 2 losses in 1995..


so essentially you couldn't be more wrong and are now trying to move the goalposts

 
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I never bought the notion that if Frost can’t get us there, no one can. I think most of us have figured it out that Frost maybe isn’t a very good play caller/preparation coach, which will lead to head scratching losses. But I will say, it’s not easy building Nebraska. It’s at a major disadvantage when it comes to recruiting but on the flip side, the resources and money is top tier. We might not see a 90s run ever again, but I have faith that some coach will get us playing for a championship.
 
Since Nebraska’s run started (1970). Three Big 8 teams won a total of 8 National Championships: Nebraska (4), Oklahoma (3) and Colorado (1).

During that same time frame OSU won 1 title.

While Nebraska was in the Big 12 three teams won National Championship. Oklahoma (1), Nebraska (1), Texas(1).

During that same time frame OSU won 2 titles and Michigan won 1.
 
Here is why this post lost all credibility with me.


Thanks for posting this too many people don’t realize the Big 8 had 4 teams finish in the top 10 in the country..

B1G never had 4 teams that finished in the top 10 in the country at seasons end...
Exactly. It is total poppycock to say that the Big 8 was weaker than most conferences. For several decades the Big 10 was Michigan and OSU, and then everybody else trailing behind. The Pac 10 was USC and UCLA and nobody else. The SWC was a train wreck of NCAA probations and is the reason it fell apart. East Coast football, outside of independent Penn State was a joke, which is precisely why undefeated PSU teams never won a title since most of their wins came against hapless teams like Temple and Maryland. Only the SEC was stronger in any meaningful way but still not as powerful as it is today. Alabama, then as now, ruled the day.

Rather than looking at the so-called weakness of the Big 8, or at such red herrings as partial qualifiers, or even at scholarship limits, we need to look at the fact that in today's game EVERYONE has millions and millions of dollars to spend on facilities so the blue blood programs no longer hold an advantage there, and EVERYONE is on television every week, once again undermining one of the advantages that elite teams used to have. So athletes today are tending to stay closer to home which is a huge disadvantage for teams like Nebraska.

But even with all of the advantages Nebraska used to enjoy as an elite team, Osborne knew that Nebraska would never be an attractive option for most of the nation's elite athletes. An inferior school academically with lousy weather in a very sparsely populated rural area in the middle of flyover country. So Osborne built a "system", especially on offense, that gave us a unique identity thus enabling us to get athletes that fit that offense that nobody else was running. And it was an offense that was utterly predicated upon a physical, bruising, power running game that could be run effectively if you had a bunch of big bodies you could bulk up and develop on the line.

THAT is what we now lack. We lack an offensive identity that is unique and we have a really crappy offensive line coach who can't seem to develop players who, under coaches like Tenopir and Young, would have been bulldozers. I really have my doubts that Frost's offense can combine Oregon's speed with Osborne's power. Frost says he wants to do that. So far he hasn't. Frost ran Osborne's offense as a QB. I think he needs to dust off his old playbook.

Edit: And don't tell me that Osborne, had he stayed on, would have moved in the direction of Frost's spread offense. What he would have done is what he was already doing ... building off of the power running game and option, he would have added in elements of the spread as one more complication that opposing defenses would have had to consider. There is NO WAY IN HELL that Osborne would have moved away radically from the base offense his genius invented.
 
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Exactly. It is total poppycock to say that the Big 8 was weaker than most conferences. For several decades the Big 10 was Michigan and OSU, and then everybody else trailing behind. The Pac 10 was USC and UCLA and nobody else. The SEC was a train wreck of NCAA probations and is the reason it fell apart. East Coast football, outside of independent Penn State was a joke, which is precisely why undefeated PSU teams never won a title since most of their wins came against hapless teams like Temple and Maryland. Only the SEC was stronger in any meaningful way but still not as powerful as it is today. Alabama, then as now, ruled the day.

Rather than looking at the so-called weakness of the Big 8, or at such red herrings as partial qualifiers, or even at scholarship limits, we need to look at the fact that in today's game EVERYONE has millions and millions of dollars to spend on facilities so the blue blood programs no longer hold an advantage there, and EVERYONE is on television every week, once again undermining one of the advantages that elite teams used to have. So athletes today are tending to stay closer to home which is a huge disadvantage for teams like Nebraska.

But even with all of the advantages Nebraska used to enjoy as an elite team, Osborne knew that Nebraska would never be an attractive option for most of the nation's elite athletes. An inferior school academically with lousy weather in a very sparsely populated rural area in the middle of flyover country. So Osborne built a "system", especially on offense, that gave us a unique identity thus enabling us to get athletes that fit that offense that nobody else was running. And it was an offense that was utterly predicated upon a physical, bruising, power running game that could be run effectively if you had a bunch of big bodies you could bulk up and develop on the line.

THAT is what we now lack. We lack an offensive identity that is unique and we have a really crappy offensive line coach who can't seem to develop players who, under coaches like Tenopir and Young, would have been bulldozers. I really have my doubts that Frost's offense can combine Oregon's speed with Osborne's power. Frost says he wants to do that. So far he hasn't. Frost ran Osborne's offense as a QB. I think he needs to dust off his old playbook.

Great post as always Pennsy! I agree with you 100%. The lack of identity has been my biggest complaint against Frost. I do not like the cute passing game and snap counts we do. This leads to holding penalties and false starts. This off-season will be the most important for Frost. He needs to change or else he’ll lose the entire fan base.
 
Great post as always Pennsy! I agree with you 100%. The lack of identity has been my biggest complaint against Frost. I do not like the cute passing game and snap counts we do. This leads to holding penalties and false starts. This off-season will be the most important for Frost. He needs to change or else he’ll lose the entire fan base.
Yep. Frost's offense is just too cute sometimes. All of that pussy football with the swing passes has got to go. Just like against Rutgers when we had Mills running great and had just ripped off a fifty yard run, when we get to the two yard line we start running Wandale up the middle. Good grief. I know Mills probably needed a breather, but at that point, in the interests of instilling in your players a sense that this is not pussy football, you leave Mills in to finish the deed.
 
Yep. Frost's offense is just too cute sometimes. All of that pussy football with the swing passes has got to go. Just like against Rutgers when we had Mills running great and had just ripped off a fifty yard run, when we get to the two yard line we start running Wandale up the middle. Good grief. I know Mills probably needed a breather, but at that point, in the interests of instilling in your players a sense that this is not pussy football, you leave Mills in to finish the deed.

The only way Frost’s offense can look good is if we get the athletes that Ohio State gets to run it. And like you mentioned, Nebraska will not land the bonafied 5 star receivers. Our best chance to win is a power game first sprinkled with some passing. The second half of Rutgers was great. This will limit penalties, run the clock, open up the passing, keep the defense on the bench and will get us wins against the west.
 
Yep. Frost's offense is just too cute sometimes. All of that pussy football with the swing passes has got to go. Just like against Rutgers when we had Mills running great and had just ripped off a fifty yard run, when we get to the two yard line we start running Wandale up the middle. Good grief. I know Mills probably needed a breather, but at that point, in the interests of instilling in your players a sense that this is not pussy football, you leave Mills in to finish the deed.

I watched the 2014 National title game with Oregon and tOSU and SF called the plays for Mariota and they tried doing those little swing passes through out the game and it all came down to 3 guys blocking 2 throng to get 3 -5 yards if it isn’t block correctly it isn’t any different than running up the middle gets a couple yards..

SF has to adjust to this conference defenses and I would hope he looks at this long and hard during the off season and use those swing passes less moving forward...
 
The only way Frost’s offense can look good is if we get the athletes that Ohio State gets to run it. And like you mentioned, Nebraska will not land the bonafied 5 star receivers. Our best chance to win is a power game first sprinkled with some passing. The second half of Rutgers was great. This will limit penalties, run the clock, open up the passing, keep the defense on the bench and will get us wins against the west.
I see absolutely no reason, none, why we cannot run a slightly updated version of Osborne's offense. I think Frost's ego gets in the way. I really do and I do not say that lightly since I do not know the man personally. But I think he fancies himself something of an offensive guru in his own right and is still smitten with how he did things at Oregon and is out to prove that he really is a great offensive mind. But if he values his job rather than his "legacy" he needs to wise up and fast. There is a damn good reason why the most successful teams in the B1G West (Wisconsin, Iowa, NW) are all predicated upon establishing the running game first. Frost wants to get skill players in space via short passes and sees that as a way of opening up the running game. I think he needs to reverse that order. There is a reason why we have not been successful at getting skill players in space and why those swing passes are always getting blown up. It is because the linebackers and the safeties can cover those "spaces" nicely since they can control our running game with just three or four down lineman. If we started pounding away at teams with a bruising running game just watch how fast those "spaces" for guys like Wandale would open up.
 
I’m 45 and, was lucky enough to be around to enjoy our amazing run in the 90’s. The fact is our reality was much different at that time.

* The Big Eight was NOT a very good football conference. We very much benefited from a weak conference schedule, and by the 90s OU was struggling.

* NCAA was just getting going with steroid testing and I don’t think that the conference tested. We were also on the cutting edge with regard to our S&C/nutrition programs...everyone does this now.

* We benefitted from low academic standards and partial qualifiers...Texas ended the partial qualifiers.

* 95-92 scholarship limit benefitted the blue bloods. Also our in state walk-on program got quite a few kids that seem to end up at places like Wyoming and the Dakotas these days.

*Our recruiting was not what people seem to remember. We had some our our greatest success leading up to and during that run, but we also benefitted from an unusual amount of local talent over those years. That said, even during our best years we did not ever have a draft class that matches some of the NFL drafts Ohio St, Bama, and Clemson have put together over the last few years. Sure we were close a few of those years, but we had a lot of mid to late round picks.

* Our success on the national scene was up and down. For years leading up to that run, we had struggled mightily in bowl games.


As much as I hate to admit it (and I’m a bit of a pessimist in these matters),I don’t ever think we will see a run anywhere near what we did back then. As fans, we need to rethink our expectations (most of us have). When Frost was hired, I told myself that he was the guy and that he would have my support until he wanted to move on.
That said, four years in the product we are putting on the field is unacceptable with the resources we still have. SF is clearly a poor game coach, and we are not getting better. Worse yet, somehow I really think he believed that we would be a good football team this year. I don’t expect to ever see much improvement in our program under Frost.
I believe the NCAA was testing for steroids use in the late 80’s maybe sooner. The big 8 wasn’t a weak conference. As for the bowl game losing streak there aren’t many schools that played a top 5 team yearly. It was pretty brutal but Tom learned and adjusted. I also don’t think we had the talent across the board when frost got here a lot of players passed the eye test but that was it. Not making excuses but a number of the juco recruits frost got were flat out busts Gregg bell the number one juco running back didn’t have the breakaway speed many thought he did, the receivers that they were counting on to replace Stan never contributed. Now is frost a great coach no he needs to get a identity for the team game management and game planning are highly questionable at times. Your young I can remember like it was yesterday Tom couldn’t beat OU it took from 1973 to 1978 for Tom to finally beat ou. Just have patients I really believe frost will be the one to turn us around. And yes I’ve posted that frost should be fired more out of frustration than anything
 
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I watched the 2014 National title game with Oregon and tOSU and SF called the plays for Mariota and they tried doing those little swing passes through out the game and it all came down to 3 guys blocking 2 throng to get 3 -5 yards if it isn’t block correctly it isn’t any different than running up the middle gets a couple yards..

SF has to adjust to this conference defenses and I would hope he looks at this long and hard during the off season and use those swing passes less moving forward...
Exactly. I would also add one more thing to my musings today on going back to our more traditional offensive identity. The fans. I remember when we played OSU in Lincoln in Frost's first year and when he came out in one series and ran the I formation with a fullback for four or five plays the crowd went apeshit berserk. I was dancing a jig in my living room watching the game all hopped-up on bourbon and happy as hell. I think our fans would absolutely love a return to our older way of doing things.
 
Exactly. It is total poppycock to say that the Big 8 was weaker than most conferences. For several decades the Big 10 was Michigan and OSU, and then everybody else trailing behind. The Pac 10 was USC and UCLA and nobody else. The SWC was a train wreck of NCAA probations and is the reason it fell apart. East Coast football, outside of independent Penn State was a joke, which is precisely why undefeated PSU teams never won a title since most of their wins came against hapless teams like Temple and Maryland. Only the SEC was stronger in any meaningful way but still not as powerful as it is today. Alabama, then as now, ruled the day.

Rather than looking at the so-called weakness of the Big 8, or at such red herrings as partial qualifiers, or even at scholarship limits, we need to look at the fact that in today's game EVERYONE has millions and millions of dollars to spend on facilities so the blue blood programs no longer hold an advantage there, and EVERYONE is on television every week, once again undermining one of the advantages that elite teams used to have. So athletes today are tending to stay closer to home which is a huge disadvantage for teams like Nebraska.

But even with all of the advantages Nebraska used to enjoy as an elite team, Osborne knew that Nebraska would never be an attractive option for most of the nation's elite athletes. An inferior school academically with lousy weather in a very sparsely populated rural area in the middle of flyover country. So Osborne built a "system", especially on offense, that gave us a unique identity thus enabling us to get athletes that fit that offense that nobody else was running. And it was an offense that was utterly predicated upon a physical, bruising, power running game that could be run effectively if you had a bunch of big bodies you could bulk up and develop on the line.

THAT is what we now lack. We lack an offensive identity that is unique and we have a really crappy offensive line coach who can't seem to develop players who, under coaches like Tenopir and Young, would have been bulldozers. I really have my doubts that Frost's offense can combine Oregon's speed with Osborne's power. Frost says he wants to do that. So far he hasn't. Frost ran Osborne's offense as a QB. I think he needs to dust off his old playbook.

Edit: And don't tell me that Osborne, had he stayed on, would have moved in the direction of Frost's spread offense. What he would have done is what he was already doing ... building off of the power running game and option, he would have added in elements of the spread as one more complication that opposing defenses would have had to consider. There is NO WAY IN HELL that Osborne would have moved away radically from the base offense his genius invented.
This post exactly. So if Frost fails again next year to we truly go back and bring in Jeff Monken?
 
Regarding scheduling and the Big 8 being weak, at the end of the 95 season, the big 8 had 4 top 10 teams

NU
Colorado
KSU
KU

plus NU whipped the Gators who also finished top 10

so while OU was down, other were up
My point was that for many years in the 80s and early 90s we may have had a few more losses were we in a tougher conference. During that run we were the best team in the country. It was never my intent to imply otherwise.
 
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There's nothing more crazy on this board than the obsession with the swing pass. If you run a toss sweep for a yard, no one says a thing. If you run a swing pass for a yard, it's the only thing talked about for the week. It's just like any other play, you have to execute it correctly.
 
There's that IDENTITY thing again. When will we figure this out? We can't be like everyone else. Zig when others zag. Fully commit to it and be the absolute best at what you.
 
There's nothing more crazy on this board than the obsession with the swing pass. If you run a toss sweep for a yard, no one says a thing. If you run a swing pass for a yard, it's the only thing talked about for the week. It's just like any other play, you have to execute it correctly.

Well maybe if they ran them correctly like throwing a catchable pass instead of throwing it behind the line which happen not once but twice with 2 turnovers to start the Friken game leading toward 2 TD for the opponents we would be less obsessed over swing passes...
 
Well maybe if they ran them correctly like throwing a catchable pass instead of throwing it behind the line which happen not once but twice with 2 turnovers to start the Friken game leading toward 2 TD for the opponents we would be less obsessed over swing passes...
And I have no issue with swing passes either. But when they are the backbone of your offense and are the main tool in your arsenal then you have pussy football.
 
I see absolutely no reason, none, why we cannot run a slightly updated version of Osborne's offense. I think Frost's ego gets in the way. I really do and I do not say that lightly since I do not know the man personally. But I think he fancies himself something of an offensive guru in his own right and is still smitten with how he did things at Oregon and is out to prove that he really is a great offensive mind. But if he values his job rather than his "legacy" he needs to wise up and fast. There is a damn good reason why the most successful teams in the B1G West (Wisconsin, Iowa, NW) are all predicated upon establishing the running game first. Frost wants to get skill players in space via short passes and sees that as a way of opening up the running game. I think he needs to reverse that order. There is a reason why we have not been successful at getting skill players in space and why those swing passes are always getting blown up. It is because the linebackers and the safeties can cover those "spaces" nicely since they can control our running game with just three or four down lineman. If we started pounding away at teams with a bruising running game just watch how fast those "spaces" for guys like Wandale would open up.

I think the second half of the Rutgers game was just that(the whole game really, we just stopped turning it over and wore them down the second half). I know it was one game out of three years, but they had to see how a diverse running game worked, right? Option, zone read, pistol, play action. That needs to be that blueprint moving forward. We can win with that offensive identity.
 
Regarding scheduling and the Big 8 being weak, at the end of the 95 season, the big 8 had 4 top 10 teams

NU
Colorado
KSU
KU

plus NU whipped the Gators who also finished top 10

so while OU was down, other were up
I think the OP is right about the B1G conference being stronger than the typical Big 8 conference, if we don’t cherry pick the few years that the Big 8 had a lot of good teams. But if we accept that as fact, it is ridiculous to be this bad. We can’t block, can’t tackle, can’t play special teams and may be the most mistake prone team in the world. That’s not scheduling. 12-20 is due to how bad we are, not how tough we have it schedule wise.
 
Name your team or STFU.. essentially we all want to know this.
tenor.gif
 
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