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The Nebraska Fan's Penchant for Self-Sabotage

CC_Lemming

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Oct 21, 2001
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I grew up during the pinnacle of the Golden Era of Nebraska football. My first Husker memory is watching Corey Schlesinger rumble into the end zone in the 1994 National Championship game. Witnessing those teams of the mid-90's at the tail-end of Nebraska's Golden Era, you cannot help but associate Nebraska football with dominance, discipline, and (damn near) perfection. Today's Husker fan is old enough to remember the Golden Era. If he did not live it, he heard about it constantly from someone who did, and he likely saw glimpses of it in players with names like Crouch, Raiola, and Brown. If you were to ask today's Nebraska fan what his expectation of excellence is, he'd probably provide some measuring stick that hearkens back to the Golden Era.

Excellence is being regularly ranked in the Top 10, winning your division, winning conference championships, playing for national championships. It should be uncontroversial and manifestly clear to everyone that we have not met these standards for quite some time. It's safe to conclude, then, for the better part of 20 years our team has not met the typical Husker fan's expectations.

Yet, despite all the miserable and inconsistent mediocrity for the better part of 20 years, it seems the one thing you have not seen the average Husker fan do is revise his definition of progress. When measured in the terms defined by Nebraska's Golden Era, "good enough" means "dominant," or something close to it, and "progress" is measured according to the invariant and nearly impossible standard of perfection. I've only witnessed two programs in my lifetime who were actually worthy of these standards. We've already been talking about the first and the second is the one down south with the coach who every failure that has coached at Nebraska since gets compared to. They are lauded as dynasties for a reason: it's because they are rare.

To both his credit and discredit, there is also no more passionate fan in football than the Nebraska fan. He cares, but it's time that he considers he might care too much. He sees Farniok whiff on block after block and wants Cavanaugh fired. He sees Lamar Jackson out of position or miss a tackle and wants him on the bench, assuming he must have been *promised* the starting job because he cannot fathom how Bootle or Stovall is any worse. Lee throws an errant pass and he wants Riley to strip Langsdorf of play calling duties. He said these same things about coaches named Cotton and Beck, about players named Lewis, Martinez, and Armstrong. He says all of this because he demands perfection and these guys make mistakes, far too many mistakes.

Let's be honest with ourselves. The typical Husker fan is entitled and obnoxiously oblivious to the present because he clings to a standard of excellence his team hasn't sniffed in nearly two decades. If one needs any evidence of this, when a mediocre program -- Iowa -- takes his team to the woodshed, he posts pictures of Iowa's trophy case as if that amounts to a refutation of the annoying Iowa fan's assertion that, as it currently stands, Iowa's program is superior to Nebraska's. He parades the standard of the Golden Era of Nebraska football as the current standard of Nebraska football, and in doing so he must lie to himself. He is talking about one thing, the Iowa fan something else, but what the Nebraska fan is talking about no longer exists and deep down he knows it. He is reminded of it nearly every Saturday.

What is your point -- should I not demand perfection? I'm not the first to say this, but no, you shouldn't. We have to move beyond the 20 year old standard of excellence, or, if we must cling to it, then we at least have to acknowledge we need a different standard for progress that does not earn its validity from it. The fan who insists on the antiquated standard of progress standard given the current state of Nebraska football is not only guilty of wishful thinking, he is guilty of self-sabotage. This concern is particularly relevant now because recently the typical Nebraska fan has taken his paranoia to a whole different level, one eerily reminiscent of 2002, 2007,and 2012. The coaching staff is not the only problem--it's the entire athletic department. It's not just Solich, Callahan, and Pelini. It's Boehm, Pederson, and (gasp!) Osborne.

Now he insists that the current AD does not actually want to win. He merely wants to put a smiley, family and PC-friendly face in front of the media, one who doesn't swear and whom you want to cheer for. One who can help the once honored Nebraska name recover from all the things Bo Pelini, and to a lesser extent Bill Callahan, did to tarnish it. And, of course, he wants to collect that fat B1G TV check. Supposedly our AD doesn't care about wins and losses, he cares only selling tickets, making money, and sell out streaks, and he's such an idiot he cannot even see far enough ahead to realize that if the product sucks, eventually the tickets won't sell, the money won't come in, and the sell out streaks will end.

I cannot possibly think of a more asinine premise upon which to base one's argument. When a person is hired to do a job that only about 20 people in the entire country are qualified to do, he is only considered in the first place because he has the highest possible credentials. He is then rewarded with a salary commensurate with the scrutiny, demands, and importance accompanying his position, which he accepts voluntarily and fully knowing. He is under no illusions. Despite this he does not do all he can to do the best job possible, and he even actively does not want to do the best he can. (Perhaps he is doing Alvarez's bidding! I mean, why not, we have already entered the theater of the absurd...). In desperation, this self-sabotaging fan then references Tim Miles as evidence of his preposterous stance, neglecting entirely the fact that Nebraska basketball and Nebraska football are in completely different stratospheres historically.

Or maybe Eichorst just has a more realistic view of the current state of Nebraska athletics?

No doubt many of you will read this as a defense of Riley and Eichrost, but nothing could be further from the truth. There is a difference -- a big difference -- between withholding judgment and offering support. What I wish each of us would do is soberly assess the current state of the program, without pointing fingers at the last coach/staff for our current failures, and come up with some goal that we think is realistic and attainable. A sensible standard.

Personally, I think that goal ought to be winning your division, competing in conference championships, and not getting blown out by Top 10 ranked opponents. If we can do that, or show good signs of moving in that direction, then I would take that to be progress. As much as part of me doesn't want to, I have to admit to myself that this goal is still within reach.

I think it's also easy to come up with a definition of what constitutes a lack of progress. Since we've only had 2 losing seasons during this miserable stretch of mediocrity, we can should be able to say that a losing record indicates not only a lack of progress, but a turn in the wrong direction. (A losing record can be justified in year 1 given the complications involved with installing a new system and accommodating old players who don't fit it, but it is unacceptable in year 3.) I don't know for sure if that's where we are headed, and I don't feel good about things as they currently stand, but I do know if we end up there it's not good enough.

Given the above definition of progress, which I take to be realistic and attainable (remember, in case
you forgot, conference play starts this weekend), no one should be calling for Riley and Eichorst to be fired. Those who are -- and I really don't think there are that many, though they are far too damn vocal -- have a flair for the melodramatic or are clinging to 20 year old standards of excellence and progress that do nothing but hurt our chances going forward. If we let our fears and insecurity take over us and talk about nothing but Scott Frost, Chip Kelly, dark horse candidates, demands for multiple assistant coaches to fired, and new ADs for the remainder of this season, what reason do we have to believe that we won't be exactly where we are right now 2-3 seasons from now? If the Husker fan who is demanding that these things happen could look beyond his antiquated standards of progress and excellence, perhaps he would see that he is part of the problem.

Again, that may sound like a defense of the current staff and administration to some, but it isn't. Honestly, it isn't. All it means is: let them finish the season, have the player's back, try to enjoy football season why it's here, then, once it's over, pass judgment.
 
1. Who is calling on Riley to be fired now? Through all of these threads you might find one or two people but the fans are not calling for his head now. If things continue as is then yes they will call for his head at the end of the year. The measure of a coach is wins and losses. Maybe he can get the ship righted and get another chance next year.

2. Eichorst is another story. He has bumbled through his time as AD. He said, "We have players who can win championships" when he fired Bo. But now a new "standard" is not having a losing season? He makes a mess of the Tim Miles saga. He talks about following his policies about not talking about a coach while the season is on-going but then comes out multiple times to prop up Riley...most notably on Saturday. Otherwise, he hides in his office and only comes out to talk to the press when forced to by the higher ups. He puts out stupid statements about not playing on Black Friday because we need a full week off for player safety while telling the B1G we will play on Fridays during the season. After the game he throws the players under the bus. But then he says, "We will work hard and provide great leadership. I will provide leadership as I have up to this point."

He's not at Steve Pederson levels yet but I think the boos would be thunderous if he ever was introduced in the stadium. If we keep him and the trajectory doesn't make a quick change and falls apart, who gets to pick up the pieces at the end of the season?
 
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Immediate goal (in the next 4-5 years): Become what Iowa has been over the past decade-ish.
Short-term goal (in the next 6-10 years): Become what Wisconsin has been over the past decade-ish.
Long-term goal (the foreseeable future, before football turns into 7-on-7): Make the playoffs by winning the conference title every 10 years or so while maintaining Wisconsin's consistency.
 
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The thing is no matter who the coach is next year with that schedule 6-6 7-5 is probably the ceiling....lets keep who is here because recruits seems to respond to them and we need to build depth and the recruiters we currently have can do a good job of that
 
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1. Who is calling on Riley to be fired now? Through all of these threads you might find one or two people but the fans are not calling for his head now. If things continue as is then yes they will call for his head at the end of the year. The measure of a coach is wins and losses. Maybe he can get the ship righted and get another chance next year.

2. Eichorst is another story. He has bumbled through his time as AD. He said, "We have players who can win championships" when he fired Bo. But now a new "standard" is not having a losing season? He makes a mess of the Tim Miles saga. He talks about following his policies about not talking about a coach while the season is on-going but then comes out multiple times to prop up Riley...most notably on Saturday. Otherwise, he hides in his office and only comes out to talk to the press when forced to by the higher ups. He puts out stupid statements about not playing on Black Friday because we need a full week off for player safety while telling the B1G we will play on Fridays during the season. After the game he throws the players under the bus. But then he says, "We will work hard and provide great leadership. I will provide leadership as I have up to this point."

He's not at Steve Pederson levels yet but I think the boos would be thunderous if he ever was introduced in the stadium. If we keep him and the trajectory doesn't make a quick change and falls apart, who gets to pick up the pieces at the end of the season?

There are posts about who is replacement will be. If that isn't calling for him to be fired, I don't know what is
 
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1. Who is calling on Riley to be fired now? Through all of these threads you might find one or two people but the fans are not calling for his head now. If things continue as is then yes they will call for his head at the end of the year. The measure of a coach is wins and losses. Maybe he can get the ship righted and get another chance next year.

2. Eichorst is another story. He has bumbled through his time as AD. He said, "We have players who can win championships" when he fired Bo. But now a new "standard" is not having a losing season? He makes a mess of the Tim Miles saga. He talks about following his policies about not talking about a coach while the season is on-going but then comes out multiple times to prop up Riley...most notably on Saturday. Otherwise, he hides in his office and only comes out to talk to the press when forced to by the higher ups. He puts out stupid statements about not playing on Black Friday because we need a full week off for player safety while telling the B1G we will play on Fridays during the season. After the game he throws the players under the bus. But then he says, "We will work hard and provide great leadership. I will provide leadership as I have up to this point."

He's not at Steve Pederson levels yet but I think the boos would be thunderous if he ever was introduced in the stadium. If we keep him and the trajectory doesn't make a quick change and falls apart, who gets to pick up the pieces at the end of the season?

1. The self-sabotaging Husker fan does not distinguish between right now and the end of the season. He has declared the season over. He is ready to move on from this coaching staff and AD because they have not met his standards and hes drawn the conclusion that they never could. While I agree that this fan may be the minority, he is a vocal one at that: just open any one of about 1/2 the threads on the board currently.

2. Fair enough, but your reasons don't involve turning Eichorst into a bogeyman. Those are legitimate reasons for criticism. But I wonder, when was the last time we had an AD who was good enough? I'd say the late 90s, and that's not a coincidence.

You should have just written the last sentence.

The post wasn't about the last sentence. The last sentence was really only included to prevent people from misconstruing the post as a defense of the current staff and administration. To that end it was unsuccessful, as evidenced by the above post.
 
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Hard to enjoy the season when you are watching bad football. We start conference play next week.

That's really all that matters.

Maybe we can be this year's Penn State.
 
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Hard to enjoy the season when you are watching bad football.

I know, believe me. After the game I texted my wife expressing my anger and disappointment over the fact that I waited to leave for the river until after the 9AM game was concluded (I'm on the west coast).

I then decided to never look at this forum again, cancel my TV subscription, and spend the rest of the fall camping and fishing. I spent the entire 3 1/2 hour drive to the river listening to the Husker post game commentary and refreshing this forum ;).
 
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There are posts about who is replacement will be. If that isn't calling for him to be fired, I don't know what is
So, what IS calling for him to be fired right now? It's saying, "I think Mike should be fired now." Virtually no one is doing that. If things follow the same trajectory, then people are saying they want ___________ or __________. But again, everyone knows they will have to let the season play out.
 
What relative will Tulsa Tom pretend to be next.

What this implies is that you will reinvent yourself as another relative. I don't have to say the exact words Tulsa Tom will reinvent himself as another relative in order to show that I think you will. Once again, you are smarter than this.

edit - considering virtually no message board fan has the ability to actually fire the coach, there is no choice but the let the season play out. Since they don't have the ability to fire the coach, them saying they want a new coach at the end of the season is implying they want the guy gone. The when is irrelvant.
 
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What relative will Tulsa Tom pretend to be next.

What this implies is that you will reinvent yourself as another relative. I don't have to say the exact words Tulsa Tom will reinvent himself as another relative in order to show that I think you will. Once again, you are smarter than this.

edit - considering virtually no message board fan has the ability to actually fire the coach, there is no choice but the let the season play out. Since they don't have the ability to fire the coach, them saying they want a new coach at the end of the season is implying they want the guy gone. The when is irrelvant.

Most people on here are saying Riley should be fired after the season if we continue playing like we are and suffer another losing season. I have read a number of posts that indicate that he should stay if we don't have a losing season.

We have suffered upsets before during seasons past but most fans are reacting to the quality of play so far this season. I don't think we as fans are demanding perfection. I think that we all would like to see a well played game win or lose. Even Riley admits that Nebraska played badly. Getting upset and still playing well is a lot different than getting upset and playing badly.

There are a lot of teams this year with losing records that have played well even in defeat. Nebraska has not been one of them and this is what Nebraska fans want to see changed.
 
Most people on here are saying Riley should be fired after the season if we continue playing like we are and suffer another losing season. I have read a number of posts that indicate that he should stay if we don't have a losing season.

We have suffered upsets before during seasons past but most fans are reacting to the quality of play so far this season. I don't think we as fans are demanding perfection. I think that we all would like to see a well played game win or lose. Even Riley admits that Nebraska played badly. Getting upset and still playing well is a lot different than getting upset and playing badly.

There are a lot of teams this year with losing records that have played well even in defeat. Nebraska has not been one of them and this is what Nebraska fans want to see changed.

Pretend if you want. When threads about who the next coach is going to be get started, the horse is out of the barn. There is blood in the water. No one is waiting for the season to be over. This is no different than 2007 and 2013/2014. Minds have been made up.
 
Pretend if you want. When threads about who the next coach is going to be get started, the horse is out of the barn. There is blood in the water. No one is waiting for the season to be over. This is no different than 2007 and 2013/2014. Minds have been made up.

Since we as fans have no say in these changes then whatever gets said on these message boards don't decide the fate of these coaches. What decides their fate is the AD and higher ups and the product that is out on the field.

People on these message boards are actually pretending when they start putting out coaching names. I for one hope that NU turns this around and Riley is here for another 5 years. He represents the University in a very professional manner.
 
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The problem CC is your too young or you weren't born yet to remember the 70s and 80s. The Golden Era Nebraska football was with Bob devaney and his national championships. All through the 70s and 80s we were told that it was unrealistic to win another national championship and we oughta just forget about it. We were told we weren't good enough... fast enough... talented enough. But the 90s happened and Nebraska was better than ever. It can happen and I believe will happen again.
 
Most people on here are saying Riley should be fired after the season if we continue playing like we are and suffer another losing season. I have read a number of posts that indicate that he should stay if we don't have a losing season.

We have suffered upsets before during seasons past but most fans are reacting to the quality of play so far this season. I don't think we as fans are demanding perfection. I think that we all would like to see a well played game win or lose. Even Riley admits that Nebraska played badly. Getting upset and still playing well is a lot different than getting upset and playing badly.

There are a lot of teams this year with losing records that have played well even in defeat. Nebraska has not been one of them and this is what Nebraska fans want to see changed.
This and so much this. Almost no one is calling for Riley's head at this point. However, if this continues to the end of the year they will be saying, "It's time for Riley to go." If there can be a true turn-around, by playing competitively in all games and winning at least nine, then most would be willing to continue the Riley experiment. To say minds are made up at this point is silly.

Something is rotten in Lincoln right now and it's not the fans.
 
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1. The self-sabotaging Husker fan does not distinguish between right now and the end of the season. He has declared the season over. He is ready to move on from this coaching staff and AD because they have not met his standards and hes drawn the conclusion that they never could. While I agree that this fan may be the minority, he is a vocal one at that: just open any one of about 1/2 the threads on the board currently.

2. Fair enough, but your reasons don't involve turning Eichorst into a bogeyman. Those are legitimate reasons for criticism. But I wonder, when was the last time we had an AD who was good enough? I'd say the late 90s, and that's not a coincidence.



The post wasn't about the last sentence. The last sentence was really only included to prevent people from misconstruing the post as a defense of the current staff and administration. To that end it was unsuccessful, as evidenced by the above post.
We still have a chance at winning the conference. Likely? No, but a whole new season starts on Saturday. GBR!!
 
I grew up during the pinnacle of the Golden Era of Nebraska football. My first Husker memory is watching Corey Schlesinger rumble into the end zone in the 1994 National Championship game. Witnessing those teams of the mid-90's at the tail-end of Nebraska's Golden Era, you cannot help but associate Nebraska football with dominance, discipline, and (damn near) perfection. Today's Husker fan is old enough to remember the Golden Era. If he did not live it, he heard about it constantly from someone who did, and he likely saw glimpses of it in players with names like Crouch, Raiola, and Brown. If you were to ask today's Nebraska fan what his expectation of excellence is, he'd probably provide some measuring stick that hearkens back to the Golden Era.

Excellence is being regularly ranked in the Top 10, winning your division, winning conference championships, playing for national championships. It should be uncontroversial and manifestly clear to everyone that we have not met these standards for quite some time. It's safe to conclude, then, for the better part of 20 years our team has not met the typical Husker fan's expectations.

Yet, despite all the miserable and inconsistent mediocrity for the better part of 20 years, it seems the one thing you have not seen the average Husker fan do is revise his definition of progress. When measured in the terms defined by Nebraska's Golden Era, "good enough" means "dominant," or something close to it, and "progress" is measured according to the invariant and nearly impossible standard of perfection. I've only witnessed two programs in my lifetime who were actually worthy of these standards. We've already been talking about the first and the second is the one down south with the coach who every failure that has coached at Nebraska since gets compared to. They are lauded as dynasties for a reason: it's because they are rare.

To both his credit and discredit, there is also no more passionate fan in football than the Nebraska fan. He cares, but it's time that he considers he might care too much. He sees Farniok whiff on block after block and wants Cavanaugh fired. He sees Lamar Jackson out of position or miss a tackle and wants him on the bench, assuming he must have been *promised* the starting job because he cannot fathom how Bootle or Stovall is any worse. Lee throws an errant pass and he wants Riley to strip Langsdorf of play calling duties. He said these same things about coaches named Cotton and Beck, about players named Lewis, Martinez, and Armstrong. He says all of this because he demands perfection and these guys make mistakes, far too many mistakes.

Let's be honest with ourselves. The typical Husker fan is entitled and obnoxiously oblivious to the present because he clings to a standard of excellence his team hasn't sniffed in nearly two decades. If one needs any evidence of this, when a mediocre program -- Iowa -- takes his team to the woodshed, he posts pictures of Iowa's trophy case as if that amounts to a refutation of the annoying Iowa fan's assertion that, as it currently stands, Iowa's program is superior to Nebraska's. He parades the standard of the Golden Era of Nebraska football as the current standard of Nebraska football, and in doing so he must lie to himself. He is talking about one thing, the Iowa fan something else, but what the Nebraska fan is talking about no longer exists and deep down he knows it. He is reminded of it nearly every Saturday.

What is your point -- should I not demand perfection? I'm not the first to say this, but no, you shouldn't. We have to move beyond the 20 year old standard of excellence, or, if we must cling to it, then we at least have to acknowledge we need a different standard for progress that does not earn its validity from it. The fan who insists on the antiquated standard of progress standard given the current state of Nebraska football is not only guilty of wishful thinking, he is guilty of self-sabotage. This concern is particularly relevant now because recently the typical Nebraska fan has taken his paranoia to a whole different level, one eerily reminiscent of 2002, 2007,and 2012. The coaching staff is not the only problem--it's the entire athletic department. It's not just Solich, Callahan, and Pelini. It's Boehm, Pederson, and (gasp!) Osborne.

Now he insists that the current AD does not actually want to win. He merely wants to put a smiley, family and PC-friendly face in front of the media, one who doesn't swear and whom you want to cheer for. One who can help the once honored Nebraska name recover from all the things Bo Pelini, and to a lesser extent Bill Callahan, did to tarnish it. And, of course, he wants to collect that fat B1G TV check. Supposedly our AD doesn't care about wins and losses, he cares only selling tickets, making money, and sell out streaks, and he's such an idiot he cannot even see far enough ahead to realize that if the product sucks, eventually the tickets won't sell, the money won't come in, and the sell out streaks will end.

I cannot possibly think of a more asinine premise upon which to base one's argument. When a person is hired to do a job that only about 20 people in the entire country are qualified to do, he is only considered in the first place because he has the highest possible credentials. He is then rewarded with a salary commensurate with the scrutiny, demands, and importance accompanying his position, which he accepts voluntarily and fully knowing. He is under no illusions. Despite this he does not do all he can to do the best job possible, and he even actively does not want to do the best he can. (Perhaps he is doing Alvarez's bidding! I mean, why not, we have already entered the theater of the absurd...). In desperation, this self-sabotaging fan then references Tim Miles as evidence of his preposterous stance, neglecting entirely the fact that Nebraska basketball and Nebraska football are in completely different stratospheres historically.

Or maybe Eichorst just has a more realistic view of the current state of Nebraska athletics?

No doubt many of you will read this as a defense of Riley and Eichrost, but nothing could be further from the truth. There is a difference -- a big difference -- between withholding judgment and offering support. What I wish each of us would do is soberly assess the current state of the program, without pointing fingers at the last coach/staff for our current failures, and come up with some goal that we think is realistic and attainable. A sensible standard.

Personally, I think that goal ought to be winning your division, competing in conference championships, and not getting blown out by Top 10 ranked opponents. If we can do that, or show good signs of moving in that direction, then I would take that to be progress. As much as part of me doesn't want to, I have to admit to myself that this goal is still within reach.

I think it's also easy to come up with a definition of what constitutes a lack of progress. Since we've only had 2 losing seasons during this miserable stretch of mediocrity, we can should be able to say that a losing record indicates not only a lack of progress, but a turn in the wrong direction. (A losing record can be justified in year 1 given the complications involved with installing a new system and accommodating old players who don't fit it, but it is unacceptable in year 3.) I don't know for sure if that's where we are headed, and I don't feel good about things as they currently stand, but I do know if we end up there it's not good enough.

Given the above definition of progress, which I take to be realistic and attainable (remember, in case
you forgot, conference play starts this weekend), no one should be calling for Riley and Eichorst to be fired. Those who are -- and I really don't think there are that many, though they are far too damn vocal -- have a flair for the melodramatic or are clinging to 20 year old standards of excellence and progress that do nothing but hurt our chances going forward. If we let our fears and insecurity take over us and talk about nothing but Scott Frost, Chip Kelly, dark horse candidates, demands for multiple assistant coaches to fired, and new ADs for the remainder of this season, what reason do we have to believe that we won't be exactly where we are right now 2-3 seasons from now? If the Husker fan who is demanding that these things happen could look beyond his antiquated standards of progress and excellence, perhaps he would see that he is part of the problem.

Again, that may sound like a defense of the current staff and administration to some, but it isn't. Honestly, it isn't. All it means is: let them finish the season, have the player's back, try to enjoy football season why it's here, then, once it's over, pass judgment.

Unless you have inside information or an assistant to Harvey Perlman I am not sure you know what criteria was used to hired Shawn Eichorst. As far as I know only Mr. Perlman knows what information he used. What were Eichorst qualifications? He was an assistant to Barry Alvarez at Wisconsin and he did a poor job at the helm of Miami? We can only judge Shawn by his actions and so far he has hired a football coach with .54% lifetime winning record who is duplicating that in Lincoln. In addition to football, Eichorst has retained a basketball coach who has shown no progress on the court and has seen several players leave the team. You write we can't judge Riley and Eichorst yet because your definition of a show of progress would be winning the West Division and that is still possible? The Huskers are 3-6 over the last 9 games. I am going to cheer with all my effort for Husker wins in the remaining games, but I think it is delusional to think they have a chance in hell to win the West this year. Another one of your examples of progress is not getting blown out by Top Ten teams. How about getting blown out by a unranked team in the first half?

I've been watching Husker games for a lot longer than you. I know how rare it is to have the success of Tom Osborne. I agree with you that the plight of the Huskers is not just tied to the athletic department, but with the University's administration as well. What I don't agree with you is that I am living in the past. I don't expect the Huskers to duplicate the nineties. My hope is that the Huskers play well, win the games that they should and be competitive against top teams. Mike has not done that and cannot do that. He's 64 years old. He is not going to change his spots. He is who we thought he is. An average coach. Nice guy, but an average coach.
 
Unless you have inside information or an assistant to Harvey Perlman I am not sure you know what criteria was used to hired Shawn Eichorst. As far as I know only Mr. Perlman knows what information he used. What were Eichorst qualifications? He was an assistant to Barry Alvarez at Wisconsin and he did a poor job at the helm of Miami? We can only judge Shawn by his actions and so far he has hired a football coach with .54% lifetime winning record who is duplicating that in Lincoln. In addition to football, Eichorst has retained a basketball coach who has shown no progress on the court and has seen several players leave the team. You write we can't judge Riley and Eichorst yet because your definition of a show of progress would be winning the West Division and that is still possible? The Huskers are 3-6 over the last 9 games. I am going to cheer with all my effort for Husker wins in the remaining games, but I think it is delusional to think they have a chance in hell to win the West this year. Another one of your examples of progress is not getting blown out by Top Ten teams. How about getting blown out by a unranked team in the first half?

I've been watching Husker games for a lot longer than you. I know how rare it is to have the success of Tom Osborne. I agree with you that the plight of the Huskers is not just tied to the athletic department, but with the University's administration as well. What I don't agree with you is that I am living in the past. I don't expect the Huskers to duplicate the nineties. My hope is that the Huskers play well, win the games that they should and be competitive against top teams. Mike has not done that and cannot do that. He's 64 years old. He is not going to change his spots. He is who we thought he is. An average coach. Nice guy, but an average coach.

You're right, I don't know what criteria was used to hire Shawn. I didn't think it was a controversial point to make that very few people are qualified to serve as an AD at a major D1 university with the type of resources, tradition, and following that NU has. By your own admission, I would think that being under the tutelage of a well-respected and successful AD (with Nebraska ties) and serving as AD at another major university with a tradition more or less on par with that of Nebraska would make Shawn uniquely qualified for the position. But I guess not. He just didn't do enough to impress you the whole two years he was at Miami. Am I to think Perlman could have thrown darts on a board with anonymous faces and not done much worse?

Secondly, I never said you couldn't judge anyone for anything based on whatever standard you choose. You took the recommendation to not rely on a 20 year old standard of excellence and progress that has long since passed us by a little too personal, going so far as to say I am accusing you of living in the past. Well, I don't know, are you? The only standard I saw you propose was: "My hope is that the Huskers play well, win the games that they should and be competitive against top teams." Sounds sensible and modern enough to me, but I'm not so sure they "should" beat teams like Oregon anymore, or "should" always beat unranked teams, because we haven't been a consistently ranked team for a long time. There could be a lot of disagreement hidden in that "should."

Also, and more importantly, that was my definition of progress, and it was clearly in the spirit of the post for you and everyone else to come up with your own and hold the staff and AD accountable for it. Yes, implicit in that was the idea that any sensible standard would have to acknowledge that the season was not yet over and much if not all of what this team could realistically be expected to achieve in terms of wins and losses is still attainable. (Since then regibson, you, and others have made the fair point that what you see on the field, regardless of the end result of the game, is not up to snuff, a point which is well taken by me. Is it unrealistic to expect that the team not to commit stupid penalties or be out of position? Of course not. You guys are also right to express dismay and skepticism about the prospect of the team turning it around, which I also expressed myself). The only conclusion I drew was that if you're going to rely on the antiquated 20 year old standard, it's time for Husker fans to take a look in the mirror and consider whether their expectations might not be part of the problem. Again, you claim you are not living in the past and yet it seems you took the admonishment personal ...

Finally, of course I'd have to agree that if we should not be getting blown out by Top 10 ranked teams then that would mean we should not get blown out by unranked ones. I didn't realize that losing 42-35 was a blow out. Here I thought games were played for 60 minutes, or are we going to cherry pick halves and quarters to defend our claims? I was as pissed as anyone during halftime two weeks ago. But if the team gets credit for being utterly terrible the first half, I would think they should get some credit for doing a better job in the second. Alas, we can both agree that they were far from perfect in both.
 
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This thread was best used after a close loss to Wisconsin not after a loss to a team we paid to play us. We have better players than NIU and Arkansas State, and should have lost to both teams. That is coaching, and the coaches make millions. They need to work miracles or another staff needs to be here by January 1st.
 
Unless you have inside information or an assistant to Harvey Perlman I am not sure you know what criteria was used to hired Shawn Eichorst. As far as I know only Mr. Perlman knows what information he used. What were Eichorst qualifications? He was an assistant to Barry Alvarez at Wisconsin and he did a poor job at the helm of Miami? We can only judge Shawn by his actions and so far he has hired a football coach with .54% lifetime winning record who is duplicating that in Lincoln. In addition to football, Eichorst has retained a basketball coach who has shown no progress on the court and has seen several players leave the team. You write we can't judge Riley and Eichorst yet because your definition of a show of progress would be winning the West Division and that is still possible? The Huskers are 3-6 over the last 9 games. I am going to cheer with all my effort for Husker wins in the remaining games, but I think it is delusional to think they have a chance in hell to win the West this year. Another one of your examples of progress is not getting blown out by Top Ten teams. How about getting blown out by a unranked team in the first half?

I've been watching Husker games for a lot longer than you. I know how rare it is to have the success of Tom Osborne. I agree with you that the plight of the Huskers is not just tied to the athletic department, but with the University's administration as well. What I don't agree with you is that I am living in the past. I don't expect the Huskers to duplicate the nineties. My hope is that the Huskers play well, win the games that they should and be competitive against top teams. Mike has not done that and cannot do that. He's 64 years old. He is not going to change his spots. He is who we thought he is. An average coach. Nice guy, but an average coach.
The bar sure moves around here a lot doesn't it
 
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This thread was best used after a close loss to Wisconsin not after a loss to a team we paid to play us. We have better players than NIU and Arkansas State, and should have lost to both teams. That is coaching, and the coaches make millions. They need to work miracles or another staff needs to be here by January 1st.
Yessssss
This isn't just another big ten west loss.
 
This thread was best used after a close loss to Wisconsin not after a loss to a team we paid to play us. We have better players than NIU and Arkansas State, and should have lost to both teams. That is coaching, and the coaches make millions. They need to work miracles or another staff needs to be here by January 1st.

In what sense should we have lost to Arkansas State? Did the refs hand us the game while I wasn't looking? I could have sworn everyone on this board believed we should have beaten Arkansas State by more than we did.
 
You're right, I don't know what criteria was used to hire Shawn. I didn't think it was a controversial point to make that very few people are qualified to serve as an AD at a major D1 university with the type of resources, tradition, and following that NU has. By your own admission, I would think that being under the tutelage of a well-respected and successful AD (with Nebraska ties) and serving as AD at another major university with a tradition more or less on par with that of Nebraska would make Shawn uniquely qualified for the position. But I guess not. He just didn't do enough to impress you the whole two years he was at Miami. Am I to think Perlman could have thrown darts on a board with anonymous faces and not done much worse?

Secondly, I never said you couldn't judge anyone for anything based on whatever standard you choose. You took the recommendation to not rely on a 20 year old standard of excellence and progress that has long since passed us by a little too personal, going so far as to say I am accusing you of living in the past. Well, I don't know, are you? The only standard I saw you propose was: "My hope is that the Huskers play well, win the games that they should and be competitive against top teams." Sounds sensible and modern enough to me, but I'm not so sure they "should" beat teams like Oregon anymore, or "should" beat unranked teams in general, because we haven't been a consistently ranked team for a long time. There could be a lot of disagreement hidden in that "should."

Also, and more importantly, that was my definition of progress, and it was clearly in the spirit of the post for you and everyone else to come up with your own and hold the staff and AD accountable for it. Yes, implicit in that was the idea that any sensible standard would have to acknowledge that the season was not yet over and much if not all of what this team could realistically be expected to achieve in terms of wins and losses is still attainable. (Since then regibson, you, and others have made the fair point that what you see on the field, regardless of the end result of the game, is not up to snuff, a point which is well taken by me. Is it unrealistic to expect that the team not to commit stupid penalties or be out of position? Of course not. You guys are also right to express dismay and skepticism about the prospect of the team turning it around, which I also expressed myself). The only conclusion I drew was that if you're going to rely on the antiquated 20 year old standard, it's time for Husker fans to take a look in the mirror and consider whether their expectations might not be part of the problem. Again, you claim you are not living in the past and yet it seems you took the admonishment personal ...

Finally, of course I'd have to agree that if we should not be getting blown out by Top 10 ranked teams then that would mean we should not get blown out by unranked ones. I didn't realize that losing 42-35 was a blow out. Here I thought games were played for 60 minutes, or are we going to cherry pick halves and quarters to defend our claims? I was as pissed as anyone during halftime two weeks ago. But if the team gets credit for being utterly terrible the first half, I would think they should get some credit for doing a better job in the second. Alas, we can both agree that they were far from perfect in both.

A lot of tap dancing, well written, but still at its core your writing is little more than song and dance. Watch the games. Really watch them. See how bad the Huskers have become under Riley? Mike doesn't know how to win. Sure he will beat an USC or a Michigan State every once in awhile, but in a career spanning 17 seasons he is working on his 8th losing season. So you go ahead and stand by Eichorst and Riley. I will choose to cheer on the kids and remain vocal in my criticism of the coach with the 54% record and the man who hired him.
 
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A lot of tap dancing, well written, but still at its core your writing is little more than song and dance. Watch the games. Really watch them. See how bad the Huskers have become under Riley? Mike doesn't know how to win. Sure he will beat an USC or a Michigan State every once in awhile, but in a career spanning 17 seasons he is working on his 8th losing season. So you go ahead and stand by Eichorst and Riley. I will choose to cheer on the kids and remain vocal in my criticism of the coach with the 54% record and the man who hired him.

Well, thanks for saying it was well-written ;). That's a hell of a lot more credit than many are capable of giving, e.g., the ones who say the posts are too long to read and feel important enough to point out they didn't read them, or those who say I use big words I don't know how to use and then refuse to provide any evidence.

I do watch the games and generally loathe what I see, but it has been that way for over 15 years. I don't think the Huskers are much worse under Riley than they were under Pelini all things considered. Remember North Dakota State? It wasn't all that different from what happened on Saturday until Ameer's brilliant run at the end of the game.

Also, my point is not to 'stand by' SE and MR. As I said, withholding judgment and offering support are not the same thing. But when both involve criticizing fans who have made up their mind, I understand how it becomes hard to tell the difference.
 
The bar sure moves around here a lot doesn't it
This is the biggest fear I have for Nebraska football. We have a coach who is a nice guy, represents the university well, has the support of the administration, and doesn't win very many games. So what do we do? We just move the goal posts.
 
This is the biggest fear I have for Nebraska football. We have a coach who is a nice guy, represents the university well, has the support of the administration, and doesn't win very many games. So what do we do? We just move the goal posts.
we let the season play out.
 
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Thanks for the nice post, CC. It's going to take time to build this program back up. At a minimum, Riley gets four years to build his program. The depth is just not there. You can see the quality of the recruiting. I'm thinking sell on Cav at this time. Someone said so in another post. I'm sorry I haven't had a lot of time to post lately. New job and road trips on the weekends have left me zero time for speaking my mind. I too think it's unacceptable. I won't back Riley this week. He's in sink or swim land. I think the team has some serious deficits. However, it's worse than I thought.

We stunk on all facets this past weekend. OL sucked. Flat out sucked. When the pressure was on, Lee wilted. He should have at least thrown the ball away or found a check off. I guess that Wilbon is not Tre. A healthy Bryant would have passed protected better and been able to catch balls out of the flat. An injured Farinok was a turnstyle. PE was a non factor in the return department. Our D was serviceable. But I'm not ready to alter the course. I think there's a lot of good in Riley. I do think that Cav should be let go at the end of the season if Riley wants to keep his job. The buck has to stop somewhere.
 
we let the season play out.
That is EXACTLY the issue. As the season plays out we will just keep moving the goal posts about what constitutes progress. At the start of the season many would have felt progress would be 10 wins and a West title. Well, if we "let the season play out" it just might mean that progress now is going 7-5 and not getting blown out too badly. Bo Pelini averaged 9.5 wins per year. Progress is being better than that.
 
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That is EXACTLY the issue. As the season plays out we will just keep moving the goal posts about what constitutes progress. At the start of the season many would have felt progress would be 10 wins and a West title. Well, if we "let the season play out" it just might mean that progress now is going 7-5 and not getting blown out too badly. Bo Pelini averaged 9.5 wins per year. Progress is being better than that.
Progress is if the team is getting better or not. We will see how the team is at the end of the year. This is a young inexperienced team. If they don't get better over the course of the year, something is wrong.
 
Progress is if the team is getting better or not. We will see how the team is at the end of the year. This is a young inexperienced team. If they don't get better over the course of the year, something is wrong.
This is moving the goal posts. You are saying, "Now that we have proven we are bad, if we get better then we can say Riley is making progress." At the start of the year NO ONE would say starting 1-2 but playing better from there would be progress.

If that is the standard for progress then we should say we were pitiful last year. We started 7-0 but lost 4 of the last 6. That should be seen as major regression and the year should be viewed as an abysmal failure. But most people said, "Some of it wasn't pretty but we won nine on the season."
 
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This is moving the goal posts. You are saying, "Now that we have proven we are bad, if we get better then we can say Riley is making progress." At the start of the year NO ONE would say starting 1-2 but playing better from there would be progress.

If that is the standard for progress then we should say we were pitiful last year. We started 7-0 but lost 4 of the last 6. That should be seen as major regression and the year should be viewed as an abysmal failure. But most people said, "Some of it wasn't pretty but we won nine on the season."
Last year was year 2 of his tenure and is mostly irrelevant to his long term success or lack thereof.

This year represents where Riley wants to be going forward and if his vision has any validity. If he somehow pulls a USC/Penn State or even Iowa of last year, it will provide evidence that his vision is accurate.

Then you base each season going forward.
 
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