The longer this goes on the worse it will be

[Pennsyhusker]

The output is there for you to see. The devil is in the details with aggregate recruiting rankings. You are free to use that as your evaluation metric but you're missing incredibly significant nuance when doing so.

I think some on here are so intent on getting Riley fired that they just can't accept that there are some positive things happening under his watch. And recruiting, which is critically important, is one of those positives.
I am a strong lean toward firing Riley. I don't like what I am seeing on the field. But there is no need to go all scorched earth and talk about Riley like he is the worst coach who ever lived.
All that said, some of the "we need to go slow and possibly retain Riley" people on here err in the opposite direction by minimizing what a shitty on-field product Nebraska has become (e.g. "If we replayed Oregon and NIU now we would win!") and by overselling the greatness of our current recruiting, which is better than Bo, but still far from top 15 kind of stuff.

 

[SnohomishRed]

I think some on here are so intent on getting Riley fired that they just can't accept that there are some positive things happening under his watch. And recruiting, which is critically important, is one of those positives.
I am a strong lean toward firing Riley. I don't like what I am seeing on the field. But there is no need to go all scorched earth and talk about Riley like he is the worst coach who ever lived.
All that said, some of the "we need to go slow and possibly retain Riley" people on here err in the opposite direction by minimizing what a shitty on-field product Nebraska has become (e.g. "If we replayed Oregon and NIU now we would win!") and by overselling the greatness of our current recruiting, which is better than Bo, but still far from top 15 kind of stuff.

If in fact the people in charge determine they have seen enough then making the call as early as possible is better for NU. Why recruit to a system that most likely will not be in place. If they feel they still need to see more to make that decision then by all means he stays and you evaluate at the end or close to the end of the year

I have seen enough but I do understand fans who want to see more, I just do not agree with them

 

[Tuco Salamanca]

If in fact the people in charge determine they have seen enough then making the call as early as possible is better for NU. Why recruit to a system that most likely will not be in place. If they feel they still need to see more to make that decision then by all means he stays and you evaluate at the end or close to the end of the year

I have seen enough but I do understand fans who want to see more, I just do not agree with them

Which of the following is recruited to a system and could not play for your choice of next coach?



David Alston
Cameron Brown
Joshua Moore
Mario Goodrich
Barret Pickering
Chase Williams
Tate Wildeman
Brendan Radley-Hiles
Will Farniok
Masry Mapieu
Cameron Jurgens

 

[Pennsyhusker]

If in fact the people in charge determine they have seen enough then making the call as early as possible is better for NU. Why recruit to a system that most likely will not be in place. If they feel they still need to see more to make that decision then by all means he stays and you evaluate at the end or close to the end of the year

I have seen enough but I do understand fans who want to see more, I just do not agree with them

I used to be in the "fire Riley now" camp (and still wouldn't be upset if they did), but I have come to see the wisdom of waiting as well, based on the arguments presented by Tuco and others. The problem is that this time we, hopefully, will not be going after a current coordinator of some kind, but will be looking instead to hire a successful head coach. If you are content with a coordinator it isn't any big deal to send out feelers mid season or even to make an offer. However, it gets a lot more complicated if you are aiming high. So, for example, we fire Riley after Saturday's approaching massacre and send secret feelers out to Frost. But if the media get wind of it you risk having Frost getting pissed at being put in that situation and turning it down. It can really blow up in your face. You can't really announce in mid season "it's Frost!" so why not wait?

 

[nebcountry]

It's still the same for me, 7 wins. No reason to make changes during the season based on wins/losses.

Maybe people are making an uproar to make sure their voices are heard.

 

[Toms Wife]

What good comes in firing Riley now? IF Riley is not retained we won't be hiring anyone until December anyway. Give him a final chance to see what can be done. One of the things we will find out is if the kids will bow up in support of him or fall apart and not care.

 

[SnohomishRed]

Which of the following is recruited to a system and could not play for your choice of next coach?



David Alston
Cameron Brown
Joshua Moore
Mario Goodrich
Barret Pickering
Chase Williams
Tate Wildeman
Brendan Radley-Hiles
Will Farniok
Masry Mapieu
Cameron Jurgens

Class is not complete yet and tall lanky WR's may not be a good fit in the future. if a change is made then it would be before signing day anyhow so efforts today may be a waste of time.

 

[SnohomishRed]

I used to be in the "fire Riley now" camp (and still wouldn't be upset if they did), but I have come to see the wisdom of waiting as well, based on the arguments presented by Tuco and others. The problem is that this time we, hopefully, will not be going after a current coordinator of some kind, but will be looking instead to hire a successful head coach. If you are content with a coordinator it isn't any big deal to send out feelers mid season or even to make an offer. However, it gets a lot more complicated if you are aiming high. So, for example, we fire Riley after Saturday's approaching massacre and send secret feelers out to Frost. But if the media get wind of it you risk having Frost getting pissed at being put in that situation and turning it down. It can really blow up in your face. You can't really announce in mid season "it's Frost!" so why not wait?

Now that does make sense and I agree and if this was Tuco's thinking I agree with him also. I do not agree with the reasoning we keep Riley because we have a few good unsigned but committed recruits

 

[Pennsyhusker]

Now that does make sense and I agree and if this was Tuco's thinking I agree with him also. I do not agree with the reasoning we keep Riley because we have a few good unsigned but committed recruits

I agree with you though that sometimes it is wise to stop delaying the inevitable and just get it done. That used to be my thinking. A big part of me still feels that way. And in reality, if you want to discuss this in the categories of right and wrong, I think it is more fair to the young men we are recruiting to be honest with them and show them that we are making a change. In any coaching change you will lose recruits no matter when you do it. And if you fire your coach mid season you send out various recruiting coordinators to talk personally with your recruits about the direction you are going with the coaching search. At the very least, even if you lose recruits, what you are left with are kids who committed to "Nebraska" and not just to a set of coaches

 

[dinglefritz]

Now that does make sense and I agree and if this was Tuco's thinking I agree with him also. I do not agree with the reasoning we keep Riley because we have a few good unsigned but committed recruits

One way or another, if we don't play well to end the season we'll lose some recruits anyway but it would be beyond stupid to fire Riley until the year is over. Even then, IF we can continue to improve (as I think we are) I question whether it would be wise to fire him even if he only goes .500. I'm not naive enough to think that the powers that be would tolerate a .500 season but Hawks, Clare, Pillen etc are not football dummies even though I disagreed strongly with their support for Pelini. The wild card is Bounds. Who knows what the hell he is going to want and he had (or allowed) a relatively quick trigger on SE. Green while not a native Nebraskan is really plugged in to small town Nebraska and I just don't know how to gauge how it will all shake out. It's an interesting situation and if not for Frost's success the past 2 seasons I don't think it would even be a debate this year.

 

[dinglefritz]

I agree with you though that sometimes it is wise to stop delaying the inevitable and just get it done. That used to be my thinking. A big part of me still feels that way. And in reality, if you want to discuss this in the categories of right and wrong, I think it is more fair to the young men we are recruiting to be honest with them and show them that we are making a change. In any coaching change you will lose recruits no matter when you do it. And if you fire your coach mid season you send out various recruiting coordinators to talk personally with your recruits about the direction you are going with the coaching search. At the very least, even if you lose recruits, what you are left with are kids who committed to "Nebraska" and not just to a set of coaches

The good news is that IMO Riley and his staff have in fact sold NU and not just themselves. IMO, they've been better at that than anybody since Frank.

 

[Pennsyhusker]

One way or another, if we don't play well to end the season we'll lose some recruits anyway but it would be beyond stupid to fire Riley until the year is over. Even then, IF we can continue to improve (as I think we are) I question whether it would be wise to fire him even if he only goes .500. I'm not naive enough to think that the powers that be would tolerate a .500 season but Hawks, Clare, Pillen etc are not football dummies even though I disagreed strongly with their support for Pelini. The wild card is Bounds. Who knows what the hell he is going to want and he had (or allowed) a relatively quick trigger on SE. Green while not a native Nebraskan is really plugged in to small town Nebraska and I just don't know how to gauge how it will all shake out. It's an interesting situation and if not for Frost's success the past 2 seasons I don't think it would even be a debate this year.

Yeah, the Frost thing is an interesting part of all of this

 

[Pennsyhusker]

The good news is that IMO Riley and his staff have in fact sold NU and not just themselves. IMO, they've been better at that than anybody since Frank.

I think you are 100% correct on this dingle

 

[Tuco Salamanca]

Now that does make sense and I agree and if this was Tuco's thinking I agree with him also. I do not agree with the reasoning we keep Riley because we have a few good unsigned but committed recruits

You are mixing two different issues and trying to make them one.

So you think Frost wouldn't want Moore and Brown? OK, we'll agree to disagree.

I am not advocating keeping Riley past the end of the year. I simply pointed out that there are some very good players that Nebraska is in on right now. If you want to keep those players at least considering Nebraska, you can't fire Riley today. That leaves a minimum of 55 days for every top program in the country to poach those players with no ability to adequately defend the poaching because you have a lame duck staff. If you keep Riley on until the end of the season, they are at least fighting for their job and will be able to at least defend some of the poaching. If those players are still considering Nebraska at the end of November, when a change is made, the new coach will have a puncher's chance of keeping them, if Riley is fired now, I don't think the new coach will have a chance. Now maybe you think a guy like Frost is going to be able and come in a develop a bunch of relationships in 15-20 days (early signing period and early enrollees) and rebuild a class, I think that is a very daunting task.

 

[Toms Wife]

I am baffled about the thought of losing all of our great recruits. Is this class really that good? (I could say we are 44th according to Rivals but that is a dumb argument right now.) So if we go by what everyone in the summer said was the true measure this year, avg. stars, we still rank 20th. Do we expect our star ranking to rise with the last seven or eight recruits? Do we have a bunch of silent commits? Are we basing this on the fact that our eyeballs are wowed and the recruiting services just don't see what we are seeing?

 

[dinglefritz]

I am baffled about the thought of losing all of our great recruits. Is this class really that good? (I could say we are 44th according to Rivals but that is a dumb argument right now.) So if we go by what everyone in the summer said was the true measure this year, avg. stars, we still rank 20th. Do we expect our star ranking to rise with the last seven or eight recruits? Do we have a bunch of silent commits? Are we basing this on the fact that our eyeballs are wowed and the recruiting services just don't see what we are seeing?

well if you fire Riley you probably end up with another lost class whether you question whether this class "is really that good" or not. NU can't afford to have weak classes every 3rd year. That transition year with Bo is still biting us in the ass.

 

[Tuco Salamanca]

I am baffled about the thought of losing all of our great recruits. Is this class really that good? (I could say we are 44th according to Rivals but that is a dumb argument right now.) So if we go by what everyone in the summer said was the true measure this year, avg. stars, we still rank 20th. Do we expect our star ranking to rise with the last seven or eight recruits? Do we have a bunch of silent commits? Are we basing this on the fact that our eyeballs are wowed and the recruiting services just don't see what we are seeing?

I am basing this on the fact that Nebraska is getting in on a higher ranked recruit and getting those players to visit, many on their own dime, and consider Nebraska. That hasn't happened here. In fact other coaches, have said these top players wouldn't do that.

It is a progression, you have to get them to visit and consider Nebraska before you can get them to commit. You aren't going to get everyone to say yes, even if they visit, but there is a 100% chance they don't commit if they don't even make the trip.

 

[Toms Wife]

well if you fire Riley you probably end up with another lost class whether you question whether this class "is really that good" or not. NU can't afford to have weak classes every 3rd year. That transition year with Bo is still biting us in the ass.

If Riley isn't getting done in terms of getting commits, I'm not sure if there is any rationale in keeping him. However, maybe our class is really, really good and we have turned the corner in recruiting...and I am failing to see that.

 

[dinglefritz]

If Riley isn't getting done in terms of getting commits, I'm not sure if there is any rationale in keeping him. However, maybe our class is really, really good and we have turned the corner in recruiting...and I am failing to see that.

There are clearly guys I think even you would consider to be difference makers still looking at us. A win over Wisconsin would have been huge for recruiting. So would a win over OSU. Failing that, we would still probably end up with a class better than Frank's last 2 classes.

 

[Toms Wife]

I am basing this on the fact that Nebraska is getting in on a higher ranked recruit and getting those players to visit, many on their own dime, and consider Nebraska. That hasn't happened here. In fact other coaches, have said these top players wouldn't do that.

It is a progression, you have to get them to visit and consider Nebraska before you can get them to commit. You aren't going to get everyone to say yes, even if they visit, but there is a 100% chance they don't commit if they don't even make the trip.

OK...this makes some sense. It just seems to me that people have taken what Tuco says is happening and wrongly translated it to the fact that we already have had this awesome recruiting in the last few years. It seems to me the results have been pretty "meh" but may be on the road to getting better.

 

[Huskercigar]

There are clearly guys I think even you would consider to be difference makers still looking at us. A win over Wisconsin would have been huge for recruiting. So would a win over OSU. Failing that, we would still probably end up with a class better than Frank's last 2 classes.

Looking and signing are two different things.

 

[dinglefritz]

Looking and signing are two different things.

Can't sign if they don't look first

 

[jflores]

I'm actually not so sure why folks get all hot and bothered on the when.

The basic facts are this. With Riley we are likely to end up with a disappointing season. Without Riley we are likely to end up with a disappointing season.

Personally, I don't see the immediate desire to have DL or Diaco be the HC and how that "makes this better" in the near term. We won't be hiring any coaches for awhile.

The only thing firing Riley now gets you is an announcement that NU *will* be looking for a coach soon, although most local and national media assume that to be the case already. So its not even that big of a gain.

Considering Riley is a nice guy, they could probably attempt to make the transition for the next guy easiest to let Riley continue to recruit, maybe entertain an offer from OSU, maybe retire, and just not beat him like a dog on national tv on his way out the door.

We were already ostracized for the way we handled Frank, we don't really need to do it with CFB's version of Jesus.

 

[Husker Sledge]

Taking everything into consideration, if Riley can get to at least 6 wins he should be retained. I know it sucks in year 3 but he's shown a willingness to drop crappy assistants and really push forward with a good recruiting plan to eventually get this thing turned around. Just makes me ill to think of these kids going through yet another transition period so soon! Now if we fail to get to .500 all bets are off.

 

[jflores]

OK...this makes some sense. It just seems to me that people have taken what Tuco says is happening and wrongly translated it to the fact that we already have had this awesome recruiting in the last few years. It seems to me the results have been pretty "meh" but may be on the road to getting better.

The past few years recruits don't matter. They are already signed. They are no longer recruits.

Equating Moore and Parsons and Bookie and whoever else you wish to name with Bradley, Grim and Watts in previous classes is doing a disservice to the gains made this year in that area.

I think if there's a chance to keep those kids in the fold and upgrade your coaching at the end of the year, that's a better possibility than to just throw hands in the air, say "F it", and just hope Frost/The Next Coach can overcome even more of a dumpster fire if they all go three sheets to the wind on Monday.

 

[Tuco Salamanca]

OK...this makes some sense. It just seems to me that people have taken what Tuco says is happening and wrongly translated it to the fact that we already have had this awesome recruiting in the last few years. It seems to me the results have been pretty "meh" but may be on the road to getting better.

I don't want this to devolve into a recruiting thread. We can start one if that is what you want to do. The issue with recruiting rankings is that they don't address need. I have said before if a team signed 6 5 star offensive linemen and 4 5 star DBs and have a top 15 class and still not fill needs and still wouldn't win a ton of games.

 

[Toms Wife]

I don't want this to devolve into a recruiting thread. We can start one if that is what you want to do. The issue with recruiting rankings is that they don't address need. I have said before if a team signed 6 5 star offensive linemen and 4 5 star DBs and have a top 15 class and still not fill needs and still wouldn't win a ton of games.

This actually gets to the heart of this thread about keeping Riley now or not. Obviously it is about filling your needs. But virtually every coach, particularly in the top 25, is recruiting to his needs. In this day of limited scholarships I don't think anyone is stockpiling guys to hide from others and not seeking to recruit to their needs. (And I'm sure people could argue this about Bo but Mike Riley isn't competing with him but rather with the Chrysts, Harbaughs, Franklins, and Meyers, etc.)

 

[Huskercigar]

Which of the following is recruited to a system and could not play for your choice of next coach?



David Alston
Cameron Brown
Joshua Moore
Mario Goodrich
Barret Pickering
Chase Williams
Tate Wildeman
Brendan Radley-Hiles
Will Farniok
Masry Mapieu
Cameron Jurgens

I'm not sure but evidently none of the lineman, the receivers, the running backs, defensive backs or linebackers recruited for Bo's system worked in MR's system. So we have been told

 

[Huskercigar]

Can't sign if they don't look first

That's my point. Our recruiting process has improved and is getting them in. We don't have to abandon that with the next coach. Maybe we can get a dynamic new coach to close the deal.

 

[Tuco Salamanca]

This actually gets to the heart of this thread about keeping Riley now or not. Obviously it is about filling your needs. But virtually every coach, particularly in the top 25, is recruiting to his needs. In this day of limited scholarships I don't think anyone is stockpiling guys to hide from others and not seeking to recruit to their needs. (And I'm sure people could argue this about Bo but Mike Riley isn't competing with him but rather with the Chrysts, Harbaughs, Franklins, and Meyers, etc.)

It isn't necessarily about stockpiling or hiding guys, but there are limited numbers of 5 star guys. There are only 3 5 star QBs in 2018 class. The remaining 9 QB in the Rivals 100 are 4 stars. So if you don't get one of those 12 QBs then you are getting an "average" QB. Again 3 5 star OL, 8 more OL are top 100 players. So if you don't get 1 or more of those 11 you are getting "average" OL.

You can do that all the way down the list. The difference between top 12 and top25 recruiting classes isn't as stark as some want it to be. There are a lot of teams vying for QB 13-25 but the difference in ranking between 13-25 isn't that great.

Again, number of recruits, taking a specialty player, taking a low 3 star in-state kid or getting a 5 star kid or a couple of highly ranked 4 star kids can be the difference.

 

[Tuco Salamanca]

I'm not sure but evidently none of the lineman, the receivers, the running backs, defensive backs or linebackers recruited for Bo's system worked in MR's system. So we have been told

I will put it this way, Bookie could play in a defense that was zone and bracket coverage based like Pelini's defense or man up, quarter coverage like Banker. Parsons could play WDE at Ohio St or stand up OLB at Nebraska. Joshua Moore could play receiver for pass happy Mike Leach or a spread, read option offense like Tom Herman.

Pelini recruited Kalu to play corner, even though he never played corner, why? Because he didn't need Kalu to have elite coverage skills to run his defense.

It goes back to what I wrote yesterday about Nebraska deciding if it wants to recruit like Ohio St or Wisconsin/ Iowa. Recruiting stud players that can play in any defense or recruiting guys to play in a system.

 

[StrongArm517]

One hopes that the actual play call was for Lee to either zip it in the end zone quickly or to throw it away quickly. Maybe it was Lee who had the brain fart and dumped it to Ozigbo, who then had another brain fart and didn't immediately try to get out of bounds. Who knows?

My son really knew better than that playing QB in the 6th grade.

 

[Archie Graham]

Class is not complete yet and tall lanky WR's may not be a good fit in the future. if a change is made then it would be before signing day anyhow so efforts today may be a waste of time.

LOLOLOL. Yeah we might not need WRs like Joshua Moore. LOLOLOL.

 

[huskerfan1414]

...and he we are with the pay questions. Husker fans are stupid.

You're torn about Cav despite everything we've seen with regards to our O Line simply because he once kept a kid at center who was originally put there by default. Something literally any coach could do, and maybe would have done sooner.
And somehow I'm the one that's stupid.
Asshole coalition gonna asshole coalition.

 

[SnohomishRed]

LOLOLOL. Yeah we might not need WRs like Joshua Moore. LOLOLOL.

Despite you calling anyone an idiot who does not agree with you 100%, I do agree with you on this and think Tuco and others are correct in that it does no good to fire Riley right now. I just hope everyone feels the same after going through the rest of the season - it could get a little rough

Moore is an elite recruit - I hope we hang onto to him no matter what happens

 

[Phillipe]

It's only 'behind the curtain' if you're not paying attention.

No, it's "behind the curtain" because it is your opinion of things no fan sees. Recruiting is about identifying talent that fits into your program and convincing that talent to come to your university and play football.

You are talking PR points about stuff that impresses fans that care about style and appearance and not results.

And that is why people are supportive of a staff that is gutting the football program. Because they buy the PR nonsense about things other than the results. And, just wait, soon Riley will mention how great the fans are and how important the fans are to creating a great program. And our fans will fall for all the rhetoric and ignore the results on the field and in the recruiting numbers.

 

[Phillipe]

...and he we are with the pay questions. Husker fans are stupid.

Oh, the irony.

 

[dinglefritz]

And that is why people are supportive of a staff that is gutting the football program. .

Gutting the football program? Really? Over dramatize much?

 

[barney44]

And that is why people are supportive of a staff that is gutting the football program.

I'm no supporter of this staff, I never really liked the hire, but I don't think they're gutting the football program.

 

[Phillipe]

Gutting the football program? Really? Over dramatize much?

No.

We took a program that averaged MORE than nine wins a year of seven years in a row. I believe we were one of only a few programs to do that over that span. We decided ( and I agreed) that that was''t enough. Nine wins was our floor, we wanted to get better.

Now we are quite possibly looking at two losing seasons out of three. We lost at home to a MAC school for the first time since God knows when. We have lost 7 of our last 12 games and we just fired our AD. Good luck recruiting while everybody in the country things you are canned once the new AD is hired. And let's be honest, the new AD is not gonna pin his career on keeping Riley around for more than another year and every recruit will know that. This program is rotting as is.