The buy in

[husker2612]

If our issues really are "buy in" related why do you think Frost is having such a hard time getting the players to buy in? Initially I can understand it, but almost 2 years. The struggles suggest it is more than just a player here and there. It looks like it could be 75% of the guys seeing the field. The back half of last year it looked to not be an issue at all. Seems like after that CU this year loss things started to really go down hill. Guys almost look to be going at 50% sometimes.
If the majority of these players are MR guys, why the struggle to buy in? Is it possible for one man (MR) to mentally brain wash a group of kids in 3 years? To the point they don't even remember how to play hard or give 100% every play? Or is it not so much the brainwashing, but the type of person MR recruited. He seemed to more go for high star guys vs high character guys. Those type of players and people usually care more about themselves than a group or team.

 

[Hastings4Huskers]

I'm just a fan looking from the outside in with no real knowledge of what is going on except for what I hear.

But in my opinion I just think the older group JR's and Sr's have been through countless position coaches, countless systems. Not making an excuse what so ever but I think this is a much bigger undertaking than What Frost initially thought. He kind of is a victim of his own success at UCF.

I do think things do turn around but for the players themselves I think they just need some consistency all around.

 

[dand84]

If our issues really are "buy in" related why do you think Frost is having such a hard time getting the players to buy in? Initially I can understand it, but almost 2 years. The struggles suggest it is more than just a player here and there. It looks like it could be 75% of the guys seeing the field. The back half of last year it looked to not be an issue at all. Seems like after that CU this year loss things started to really go down hill. Guys almost look to be going at 50% sometimes.
If the majority of these players are MR guys, why the struggle to buy in? Is it possible for one man (MR) to mentally brain wash a group of kids in 3 years? To the point they don't even remember how to play hard or give 100% every play? Or is it not so much the brainwashing, but the type of person MR recruited. He seemed to more go for high star guys vs high character guys. Those type of players and people usually care more about themselves than a group or team.

Have you ever led a team (sports, co-workers, whatever) or tried to get them to do something new, something outside their wheelhouse? It is easier if you are micro-managing everyone and over their shoulder. It is far more difficult when you want them do it on their own. That is what I take it to mean from HCSF's comments in recent weeks. Guys have been doing things one way for last how ever many years and are now being asked to think and act a different way. It is hard.

 

[mgbreis]

I think they "buy in" to the extent that they want to win. But... they've experienced so much failure and disappointment that it doesn't take much for them to give up. They're not resilient. Somehow, some way, it's going to take getting a few breaks and winning a few bigger games for them to develop the core belief and swagger that you find in winning programs. I thought the Michigan State game last year was that type of a win, but unfortunately it didn't carry over.

 

[Solana Beach Husker]

Have you ever led a team (sports, co-workers, whatever) or tried to get them to do something new, something outside their wheelhouse? It is easier if you are micro-managing everyone and over their shoulder. It is far more difficult when you want them do it on their own. That is what I take it to mean from HCSF's comments in recent weeks. Guys have been doing things one way for last how ever many years and are now being asked to think and act a different way. It is hard.

It is also easier if your group are extremely skilled and talented and gained their talent through hard work. We aren't very good. That is clear...our talented players are playing well...the other guys are generally getting dominated and then giving up. The team will seem better when they are better, they will buy in when player hard leads to success. College football is about talent and belief...but talent first. Watch what happens to minnesota when they get wrecked in one game...they will slide hard.

 

[z28craz]

Have you ever led a team (sports, co-workers, whatever) or tried to get them to do something new, something outside their wheelhouse? It is easier if you are micro-managing everyone and over their shoulder. It is far more difficult when you want them do it on their own. That is what I take it to mean from HCSF's comments in recent weeks. Guys have been doing things one way for last how ever many years and are now being asked to think and act a different way. It is hard.

This is spot on. Leading a team is difficult, and changing a culture might be one of the most difficult aspects of leading any team. It’s easier for new team members to buy in because they don’t the culture anyway. The “buy in curve” is much lower for incoming players. Existing players, and I would argue even transfers, are all used to and essentially bought into different cultures and routines. Changing to buy in to a new culture means breaking old habits and establishing new habits. That’s a long hard road. The number one thing these players and this program overall needs right now is consistency. Consistency of coaches, consistency of routine, etc. that’s why it’s critical that we get to a bowl game this year. We need those extra hours of practice if only to establish consistency.

 

[egaRdeR]

This is spot on. Leading a team is difficult, and changing a culture might be one of the most difficult aspects of leading any team. It’s easier for new team members to buy in because they don’t the culture anyway. The “buy in curve” is much lower for incoming players. Existing players, and I would argue even transfers, are all used to and essentially bought into different cultures and routines. Changing to buy in to a new culture means breaking old habits and establishing new habits. That’s a long hard road. The number one thing these players and this program overall needs right now is consistency. Consistency of coaches, consistency of routine, etc. that’s why it’s critical that we get to a bowl game this year. We need those extra hours of practice if only to establish consistency.

Both of these are great takes.

Player confidence and resiliency play a ton into it. And those are both very contagious. It takes some extraordinary people to overcome and lead teams out of that mentality. That is both coaches and players.

 

[BigRedRising]

We wont turn the corner this year. It's fine. The young guys know what's up, and so do the older guys on both sides of the fence. I imagine there is a sizable group of guys feeling some sort of way about being a large part of the problem. The guys that cant play up to the new standard have been outed, and now inevitably there are factions in the locker room. The future guys lumped in with coaches, and then the problem players. There is no chance this team is unified. Playing together may be one of the most crucial elements.

 

[JohnRossEwing]

"Buy-in" is code for "players not as good as we hoped"

 

[ridge222]

Buy-In comes from success. Lets not forget that this team started out 0-6 last year, and if we are being honest, none of the 12 wins this team has had over the last 3 seasons is a quality win.

I know it was talked about at length last season, but if the Akron game is not canceled and that is a win, this team right now is probably vastly different. For people to say these kids aren't buying-in and don't care is BS. These kids want nothing more than to be successful. For one reason or another it hasn't happened.

There is still time, but throwing this all on the kids as not buying-in isn't fair. Weather Frost gets this turned around, I don't know, but I think you can probably except a fair amount of inconsistency over the next few years.

 

[oldjar07]

If our issues really are "buy in" related why do you think Frost is having such a hard time getting the players to buy in? Initially I can understand it, but almost 2 years. The struggles suggest it is more than just a player here and there. It looks like it could be 75% of the guys seeing the field. The back half of last year it looked to not be an issue at all. Seems like after that CU this year loss things started to really go down hill. Guys almost look to be going at 50% sometimes.
If the majority of these players are MR guys, why the struggle to buy in? Is it possible for one man (MR) to mentally brain wash a group of kids in 3 years? To the point they don't even remember how to play hard or give 100% every play? Or is it not so much the brainwashing, but the type of person MR recruited. He seemed to more go for high star guys vs high character guys. Those type of players and people usually care more about themselves than a group or team.

If we're having such troubles with buy in, why is every practice great or the best practice ever? If a lot of players weren't buying in, you would think we would have a bad practice once in a while. Frost seems to be contradicting himself when he says practices are great yet we're not getting players to buy in.

 

[artguy68]

To me, this "buy in" stuff is abstract enough that you can use it any time things look bad. No names are being used, and even some fans who are naming names are not naming enough players that would make a significant impact on games. Sadly, this notion of "buying in" 20 games into Frost's tenure is a lame excuse. And saying that the players are doing what they are told by the coaches but aren't doing more is a weird mind game that I don't like. In my view, Frost has some maturing to do along with the players.

 

[bigRed-no-BiilyC]

If we're having such troubles with buy in, why is every practice great or the best practice ever? If a lot of players weren't buying in, you would think we would have a bad practice once in a while. Frost seems to be contradicting himself when he says practices are great yet we're not getting players to buy in.

Scott Frost may be using Tom Osborne's technique of seeing a small improvement in practice and praising the team for having a good practice. Coach Osborne said, catch someone doing something right and tell them about it.

This is just my opinion, but I'm familiar with being on the receiving end. Have you been telling someone every day that they aren't up to standard? How's that working for you?

 

[Floyd7702]

This whole buy in thing is a joke. It’s an excuse for lack of coaching!

 

[dinglefritz]

Have you ever led a team (sports, co-workers, whatever) or tried to get them to do something new, something outside their wheelhouse? It is easier if you are micro-managing everyone and over their shoulder. It is far more difficult when you want them do it on their own. That is what I take it to mean from HCSF's comments in recent weeks. Guys have been doing things one way for last how ever many years and are now being asked to think and act a different way. It is hard.

If we believe the reports on S&C workouts and how they were voluntary, MR created an atmosphere where being lazy was okay. We hear that the guys left on the team are doing it the right way now. It's kind of like the Seinfeld sound clip though where Kramer asks "do you really want to have fun or are you just saying you want to have fun?". Are some of the leftovers REALLY giving it their all or are they just saying it. Then IF there are guys not paying attention to details that trickles down to some of the new players. It's a vicious cycle.

When you've got the upperclassmen busting tails to make sure things are done right, it's a whole different dynamic. The coaches don't have to be the Enforcers then to try to get maximum attention and effort from the players. We're not at the point from an attitude stand point yet that this program was at when Frost played. I would bet that even when he coached at Northern Iowa it was easier to get the team motivated than it is at NU. Just the mass of the roster would seem to me to make it a difficult task and IMO may be one of the problems with having so many people on the team. There's an AWFUL lot of players who know they are never going to see the field in any given year. Unfortunately the lack of depth at some positions makes it difficult to replace a guy who doesn't seem to be able to focus in games either.

 

[bigbadjim990]

I'm just a fan looking from the outside in with no real knowledge of what is going on except for what I hear.

But in my opinion I just think the older group JR's and Sr's have been through countless position coaches, countless systems. Not making an excuse what so ever but I think this is a much bigger undertaking than What Frost initially thought. He kind of is a victim of his own success at UCF.

I do think things do turn around but for the players themselves I think they just need some consistency all around.

 

[ssmill777]

If we're having such troubles with buy in, why is every practice great or the best practice ever? If a lot of players weren't buying in, you would think we would have a bad practice once in a while. Frost seems to be contradicting himself when he says practices are great yet we're not getting players to buy in.

I like Frost a lot and hope he's given time to either sink or swim, but he has contradicted himself more than a few times in press conferences. To say that this team is way better than last yr is an exaggeration of the truth. To say that AM2 is one of the best QB's in the nations is a gross exaggeration. I understand that he wants to portray confidence in the rebuild and make people believe the coaches and schemes are some of the best in the nation, but so far that looks to be a contradiction of reality.

 

[JohnRossEwing]

I like Frost a lot and hope he's given time to either sink or swim, but he has contradicted himself more than a few times in press conferences. To say that this team is way better than last yr is an exaggeration of the truth. To say that AM2 is one of the best QB's in the nations is a gross exaggeration. I understand that he wants to portray confidence in the rebuild and make people believe the coaches and schemes are some of the best in the nation, but so far that looks to be a contradiction of reality.

Ummmm...those are not contradictions...those are his opinions.

 

[ssmill777]

Ummmm...those are not contradictions...those are his opinions.

Sure, but those opinions have not been backed by results/reality - that's my point.

 

[JohnRossEwing]

Sure, but those opinions have not been backed by results/reality - that's my point.

Sure...but they aren't contradictions.

 

[huskerdude88]

"His athleticism overcame the bad decision..." Let that sink in Purdue has players more athletic than guys on our defense.