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The 1% blunder: How a simple but fatal math mistake by US Covid-19 experts caused the world to panic

What upsets me is a lot of front line drs were handcuffed into only using certain treatments. And why were the patients told to stay home if you have symptoms until you need to hospitalized. They have way of isolating patients get them treated ASAP they can still go home after they’ve been treated.
 
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And here all this time I thought it was SPARTA! ;)
 
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What upsets me is a lot of front line drs were handcuffed into only using certain treatments.

what treatments weren’t available to “front line” drs because they were “handcuffed”
 
What upsets me is a lot of front line drs were handcuffed into only using certain treatments. And why were the patients told to stay home if you have symptoms until you need to hospitalized. They have way of isolating patients get them treated ASAP they can still go home after they’ve been treated.
There are doctors so worried about how controversial HCQ is that they won't prescribe and instead are prescribing levaquin just to get a quinoline based medicine into peoples bodies. Its insanity.
 
There are doctors so worried about how controversial HCQ is that they won't prescribe and instead are prescribing levaquin just to get a quinoline based medicine into peoples bodies. Its insanity.
What is insanity is that you've gone so far around the bend you actually think that is true. Some chiropractor tell you this? That would make some sense.
 
"Revolver News set out to commission a study to do precisely that: to finally quantify the net damage of the lockdowns in terms of a metric known as “life-years.” "

interesting stuff ... will you please post the journal where where this study was published?
I tried to search by the authors but ran into this roadblock

Revolver News is very proud to present a rigorous study on such an important topic ... the authors have chosen for the time being to represent themselves pseudonymously.

Just Facts: https://www.justfacts.com/news_covid-19_crucial_facts

If you want no noise and just the facts, you'll not find a better source than justfacts.com. I've linked their article to covid.
 
An ICU nurse that deals with covid patients told me that's what they are doing.

we can order all the hydroxychloroquine we want - it isn’t being prescribed because the evidence doesn’t support it

as a patient you have plenty of choices - if you or a loved one needs transfer to an large medical center - insist you will only go if they are going to give you hydroxychloroquine

you can choose which doctor you go to
 
we can order all the hydroxychloroquine we want - it isn’t being prescribed because the evidence doesn’t support it

as a patient you have plenty of choices - if you or a loved one needs transfer to an large medical center - insist you will only go if they are going to give you hydroxychloroquine

you can choose which doctor you go to
What evidence shows that levaquin is effective?
 
What evidence shows that levaquin is effective?

there isn’t - don’t use it - unless have evidence of a bacterial infection or strong suspicion awaiting cultures -

suspect it is being used because a large proportion of influenza deaths are a result of bacterial superinfection - virus damages the lungs making it more susceptible to bacterial co-infection
 
the authors have chosen for the time being to represent themselves pseudonymously.

This is exactly what happens when science becomes politicized. Researchers and doctors are scared to speak publicly for fear of being fired and canceled. Why? Because they've seen it happen to way too many of their colleagues and it was happening prior to Covid.

And that's exactly the point. The powers that be do not want any dissent so they do what they can to silence the dissenters. Then people can simply dismiss articles like the one I shared because it is not "peer reviewed" or done by known researchers. It's really insidious.
 
This article has nothing to do with Trump and he was never mentioned until you did. I just thought it was an interesting article on a mistake made in the initial stages of this pandemic. In all honestly, mistakes were probably going to be made in a virus that nobody really knew much about.
You do realize that although the fatality rate overall may only be marginally worse in the general population that since there are no vaccines for Covid, in contrast to influenza, the number of high risk individuals getting infected and dying is still going to result in a much greater death toll than for seasonal influenza. But that's ok, right?
 
there isn’t - don’t use it - unless have evidence of a bacterial infection or strong suspicion awaiting cultures -

suspect it is being used because a large proportion of influenza deaths are a result of bacterial superinfection - virus damages the lungs making it more susceptible to bacterial co-infection
So why not azithromycin or Biaxin? Doesn't it seem odd that their first choice would be levaquin if the whole point is to prevent bacterial pnuemonia?
 
So why not azithromycin or Biaxin? Doesn't it seem odd that their first choice would be levaquin if the whole point is to prevent bacterial pnuemonia?

again - don't routinely give out LQ - nor does anyone in our group

azithro doesn't have adequate gram negative bacterial coverage for patients with underlying lung disease or if someone is or was recently in the hospital
 
we can order all the hydroxychloroquine we want - it isn’t being prescribed because the evidence doesn’t support it

as a patient you have plenty of choices - if you or a loved one needs transfer to an large medical center - insist you will only go if they are going to give you hydroxychloroquine

you can choose which doctor you go to

Why is this dude and many others like him deplatformed? Watch the second video before you answer.





https://www.afa.net/the-stand/cultu...answer-to-covid-19-don-t-let-them-lie-to-you/
 
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This has become a very strange phenomenon. For some reason, there are people that seem to WANT this to be as deadly as the original worst-case scenarios predicted it to be. Now, with more data we have a better idea of what we are actually dealing with but people are clinging to old, outdated, and discredited models because they want to justify their fear. It seems like a form of Stockholm syndrome.

Many have spent months defending the lockdowns and other ways to "slow down" the spread. Pride gets in the way of admitting you were ill-informed or defending the decision of people who were ill-informed.

We are all guilty of it.
 
I can't see this going anywhere. Is the DOJ really going to consider this a criminal act and prosecute people over it?

Maybe. It should certainly be looked into.

Those people couldn't leave. They had to watch sick people come in the front door, many of them had to know it was going to kill them within a very short time frame.
 
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I can't see this going anywhere. Is the DOJ really going to consider this a criminal act and prosecute people over it?

https://www.ihatethemedia.com/obama-reports-arizona-to-un-human-rights-council

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-...human-rights-violations-during-floyd-protests

Personally I'm getting sick of the two-tiered justice system. I don't know if you agree with this, but there are a lot of people from the Obama years who should be in prison right now. Obama himself oversaw 8 years of illegal activity from Holder to Lois Lerner to James Comey. How many felonies has Schiff and Nadler committed by leaking classified material to the press?

As far as your question goes, probably not. I want the left held to the same standard as the right.
 
https://www.ihatethemedia.com/obama-reports-arizona-to-un-human-rights-council

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-...human-rights-violations-during-floyd-protests

Personally I'm getting sick of the two-tiered justice system. I don't know if you agree with this, but there are a lot of people from the Obama years who should be in prison right now. Obama himself oversaw 8 years of illegal activity from Holder to Lois Lerner to James Comey. How many felonies has Schiff and Nadler committed by leaking classified material to the press?

As far as your question goes, probably not. I want the left held to the same standard as the right.

Schiff should be on death row for Treason. That guy is the worst.
 
take COVID out of it and just look at deaths regardless of cause - huge increase in 2020 based on yearly averages

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You are wasting your time. A subset of the population would rather read the Russian Times than learn about population health. Remember when people screamed "death panals" because Obama wanted to reimburse clinicians when they discussed end of life care with patients? Now that party doesn't care about >180K deaths/6 months. And they really don't care about the elderly, disabled, and immunosuppressed. You can also add the obese and those with type 2 DM. There should be robust arguments about how to balance population health safety and the economy. However, there is not one legitimate argument that there is some kind of world-wide conspiracy against Trump and his supporters....
 
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You are wasting your time. A subset of the population would rather read the Russian Times than learn about population health. Remember when people screamed "death panals" because Obama wanted to reimburse clinicians when they discussed end of life care with patients? Now that party doesn't care about >180K deaths/6 months. And they really don't care about the elderly, disabled, and immunosuppressed. You can also add the obese and those with type 2 DM. There should be robust arguments about how to balance population health safety and the economy. However, there is not one legitimate argument that there is some kind of world-wide conspiracy against Trump and his supporters....

says a guy that supports the party who had governors send Covid infected elderly to a nursing home with other elderly. Yep, that screams Dems care for the elderly, disabled, and immunoosuppressed.
 
https://www.ihatethemedia.com/obama-reports-arizona-to-un-human-rights-council

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-...human-rights-violations-during-floyd-protests

Personally I'm getting sick of the two-tiered justice system. I don't know if you agree with this, but there are a lot of people from the Obama years who should be in prison right now. Obama himself oversaw 8 years of illegal activity from Holder to Lois Lerner to James Comey. How many felonies has Schiff and Nadler committed by leaking classified material to the press?

As far as your question goes, probably not. I want the left held to the same standard as the right.
I absolutely agree with it. I'm just saying that its very unlikely that an elected official is going to be held criminally liable unless they find something extremely nefarious behind the decision making process. I'm not even sure that we want civil suits over this. That could lead to all kinds of chaos in the court system.
 
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I absolutely agree with it. I'm just saying that its very unlikely that an elected official is going to be held criminally liable unless they find something extremely nefarious behind the decision making process. I'm not even sure that we want civil suits over this. That could lead to all kinds of chaos in the court system.

And this is where I have conflict. We want to prosecute police for using poor judgement when they are in a life or death situation where they have to make a split second decision and unfortunately 1 life is lost in that event. Yet for POLS, who have hours and days and tons of info to make a decision, we seem to want to give them the benefit of the doubt and we have a apparent standard of extremely nefarious. I would bet the decision to send covid infected patients back to nursing homes, in one city, killed more innocent folks than all the police involved shooting kill in a year, in all of the US.
 
And this is where I have conflict. We want to prosecute police for using poor judgement when they are in a life or death situation where they have to make a split second decision and unfortunately 1 life is lost in that event. Yet for POLS, who have hours and days and tons of info to make a decision, we seem to want to give them the benefit of the doubt and we have a apparent standard of extremely nefarious. I would bet the decision to send covid infected patients back to nursing homes, in one city, killed more innocent folks than all the police involved shooting kill in a year, in all of the US.
Not a perfect analogy but I agree with what you're saying. I'm just a little bit concerned about the kind of precedent it might set if these governors are charged criminally. Think about what that might lead to in things like hurricane response decisions. A governor knows its coming, people might die, and now knowing that they might be criminally charged how does that affect their decision making? Unless the threat is a known quantity it just has to come down to a judgment call. These governors most likely just made very poor judgment calls and should be held accountable for that at the ballot box, not in court unless they knew their actions were definitely going to lead to unnecessary deaths.
 
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Not a perfect analogy but I agree with what you're saying. I'm just a little bit concerned about the kind of precedent it might set if these governors are charged criminally. Think about what that might lead to in things like hurricane response decisions. A governor knows its coming, people might die, and now knowing that they might be criminally charged how does that affect their decision making? Unless the threat is a known quantity it just has to come down to a judgment call. These governors most likely just made very poor judgment calls and should be held accountable for that at the ballot box, not in court unless they knew their actions were definitely going to lead to unnecessary deaths.

I will say the hurricane analogy is also not perfect. Governors and city officials issue mandatory evacuations all the time. Some people heed some don't. By issuing the mandatory evacuation it is almost like a safe harbor from prosecution. " I told you to leave but you didn't"
 
I will say the hurricane analogy is also not perfect. Governors and city officials issue mandatory evacuations all the time. Some people heed some don't. By issuing the mandatory evacuation it is almost like a safe harbor from prosecution. " I told you to leave but you didn't"
What if someone dies while evacuating and then the hurricane doesn't make landfall? A person could make the case that someone died that didn't need to and make the case for a criminal charge. No, its not a perfect analogy, but we've seen time and again how the slippery slope really does exist.

Let's say that these governors are criminally charged. Should Trump also be charged because he didn't stop them from making the decisions that they did? What about the legislatures in each state?
 
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What if someone dies while evacuating and then the hurricane doesn't make landfall? A person could make the case that someone died that didn't need to and make the case for a criminal charge. No, its not a perfect analogy, but we've seen time and again how the slippery slope really does exist.

Let's say that these governors are criminally charged. Should Trump also be charged because he didn't stop them from making the decisions that they did? What about the legislatures in each state?

I understand the point you're making, I just believe having no consequence other than possibly losing the next election is BS. Again, if 1 person dies during a mandatory evacuation, that sucks. When 6400 elderly die in nursing homes, I think that meets even the broadest definition of extremely nefarious. jmho
 
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I understand the point you're making, I just believe having no consequence other than possibly losing the next election is BS. Again, if 1 person dies during a mandatory evacuation, that sucks. When 6400 elderly die in nursing homes, I think that meets even the broadest definition of extremely nefarious. jmho
Just to be clear, If I'm sitting on a jury, you wouldn't have to work very hard to convince me. I definitely think that in this circumstance these governors should be charged with reckless endangerment. I'm just a little concerned with where that would lead.
 
You are wasting your time. A subset of the population would rather read the Russian Times than learn about population health. Remember when people screamed "death panals" because Obama wanted to reimburse clinicians when they discussed end of life care with patients? Now that party doesn't care about >180K deaths/6 months. And they really don't care about the elderly, disabled, and immunosuppressed. You can also add the obese and those with type 2 DM. There should be robust arguments about how to balance population health safety and the economy. However, there is not one legitimate argument that there is some kind of world-wide conspiracy against Trump and his supporters....

I'm certain that I'm also wasting my time, but as it is I have a few minutes to spare.

1- The Party that supports abortion on demand up to birth (and in some cases even after birth) has absolutely no leg to stand on when it comes to healthcare.

2- "Death panels" are a thing in many countries that have single payer (universal) healthcare. Faceless bureaucrats pick and choose who the winners and losers are. Too old or too sick and you're left to die because it's not worth the money & effort. In some cases, they'll even refuse to let you seek other medical care and insist that you die "with dignity". See Charlie Gard.

3- 180K did not die 'from' covid, only 'with' covid (supposedly). This whole 'pandemic' has been so overly politicized that no one with any sense of reality should take any stock in these numbers.

4- The cure should not be worse than the disease. It is becoming clearer by the day that we were lied to from the very beginning about covid and we're realizing that the lockdowns very likely had a worse overall effect on our nation than had the government not done anything.
 
Deaths (all cause) above historical averages
Very conservative #s as data include Jan-March when C-19 deaths were minimal

a lot more humans seem to be dying in 2020

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Let's wait for the rest of the year's data to come in. There is strong speculation a lot of these deaths were pulled forward and will be balanced by a deficit (to prev years) in all cause mortality.
 
That is an obviously inflated number given the CDC's guidelines for what should be coded a Covid death and the financial incentive given to code deaths as Covid caused.

Not to mention that CDC's revised numbers showing only 6% as not having co-morbidities and the average co-morbidities at 2.6 with advanced age also being a major factor.

That people continue to quote that as a legitimate number is crazy.

It's disingenuous, so right on target for him.
 
You obviously didn’t read the article. It didn’t talk about how contagious that Covid is. It talked about the fatality rate and not infection rate.

Also, in case you didn’t notice, I haven’t really participated in much of the political stuff on this board. To me, this article had nothing to do with politics, but just about mistakes made at the beginning of the pandemic. People like you seem like the ones that want to make it political.
Well Said Kaz!!!
 
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They feel a need to be led because they are sheep.

When they can unite behind a common cause, no matter how inane, like wearing masks, they feel better. They are motivated off emotion. It may be fine for them, but it's terrible for society.

As opposed to fear of minorities “ruining” the country, the media and a “deep state”, loss of “liberties” or “freedoms”, being afraid of a piece of fabric on their face. The entire modern conservative movement is driven by fear of change, loss of identity and conspiracy theories.
 
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