@spartanhusker and KSHSAA?

TruHusker

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Hey Spartan, I see that KSHSAA made the recommendation to KSDE to move private schools up a class if they won 5 state championships in any sport in 5 years.

Is it possible that your tennis state championships would push Collegiate to 4A? I looked it up and your teams have won a bunch!

I know this was talked about when I was a Principal/AD so it isn't new. I do find a problem with their criteria though.
 

spartanhusker

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Hey Spartan, I see that KSHSAA made the recommendation to KSDE to move private schools up a class if they won 5 state championships in any sport in 5 years.

Is it possible that your tennis state championships would push Collegiate to 4A? I looked it up and your teams have won a bunch!

I know this was talked about when I was a Principal/AD so it isn't new. I do find a problem with their criteria though.
Good evening! I’ve been in meetings all day so this is my first check of the board today and I find this waiting for me!😂
Yes, I was actually a subject at the meeting because of our tennis success… i’m fighting some bitter feelings about the whole thing. I can even ‘see’ the rationale of the publics to the degree until you factor in the mildly rampant transferring that has taken place inr the publics that goes ‘ unpunished’… i remember about 15 years ago, the two starting guards for the Haven girls basketbsll team were from Fairfield and Pretty Prairie … they never lived a day in Haven.

But back to us… I would be fine with my program moving up, but to penalize our 1-19 girls basketball team because of our tennis success is just stupid and small minded. And it’s not like every private school wins in tennis…. Trinity doesnt, Independent is a shell now, Carroll does not, etc… i resent that we are penalized for working hard. This bunk about transfers is ridiculous, at least for us in tennis…. Every one of our top six in the girls program waa a lifer st Collegiate.

if a school cheats….punish them suspend them… but don’t attack their success if done fairly.
 

Big bo fan

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Good evening! I’ve been in meetings all day so this is my first check of the board today and I find this waiting for me!😂
Yes, I was actually a subject at the meeting because of our tennis success… i’m fighting some bitter feelings about the whole thing. I can even ‘see’ the rationale of the publics to the degree until you factor in the mildly rampant transferring that has taken place inr the publics that goes ‘ unpunished’… i remember about 15 years ago, the two starting guards for the Haven girls basketbsll team were from Fairfield and Pretty Prairie … they never lived a day in Haven.

But back to us… I would be fine with my program moving up, but to penalize our 1-19 girls basketball team because of our tennis success is just stupid and small minded. And it’s not like every private school wins in tennis…. Trinity doesnt, Independent is a shell now, Carroll does not, etc… i resent that we are penalized for working hard. This bunk about transfers is ridiculous, at least for us in tennis…. Every one of our top six in the girls program waa a lifer st Collegiate.

if a school cheats….punish them suspend them… but don’t attack their success if done fairly.
First of all, Congrats on the Tennis Success.I live in Nebraska so don’t know about the issues in Kansas , We have open enrollment for public schools in Nebraska at least in some districts, the issue here is the people feel the privates are controlling the enrollment to stay in a certain class ,, they can pick and choose who they take, in the publics they set a number of transfers they can take take that year ,but they can’t pick and choose to get to that number., Again congratulations on the Success.


,
 
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Good evening! I’ve been in meetings all day so this is my first check of the board today and I find this waiting for me!😂
Yes, I was actually a subject at the meeting because of our tennis success… i’m fighting some bitter feelings about the whole thing. I can even ‘see’ the rationale of the publics to the degree until you factor in the mildly rampant transferring that has taken place inr the publics that goes ‘ unpunished’… i remember about 15 years ago, the two starting guards for the Haven girls basketbsll team were from Fairfield and Pretty Prairie … they never lived a day in Haven.

But back to us… I would be fine with my program moving up, but to penalize our 1-19 girls basketball team because of our tennis success is just stupid and small minded. And it’s not like every private school wins in tennis…. Trinity doesnt, Independent is a shell now, Carroll does not, etc… i resent that we are penalized for working hard. This bunk about transfers is ridiculous, at least for us in tennis…. Every one of our top six in the girls program waa a lifer st Collegiate.

if a school cheats….punish them suspend them… but don’t attack their success if done fairly.
Just move the tennis team up a class, not all sports.
 
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headcard

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Good evening! I’ve been in meetings all day so this is my first check of the board today and I find this waiting for me!😂
Yes, I was actually a subject at the meeting because of our tennis success… i’m fighting some bitter feelings about the whole thing. I can even ‘see’ the rationale of the publics to the degree until you factor in the mildly rampant transferring that has taken place inr the publics that goes ‘ unpunished’… i remember about 15 years ago, the two starting guards for the Haven girls basketbsll team were from Fairfield and Pretty Prairie … they never lived a day in Haven.

But back to us… I would be fine with my program moving up, but to penalize our 1-19 girls basketball team because of our tennis success is just stupid and small minded. And it’s not like every private school wins in tennis…. Trinity doesnt, Independent is a shell now, Carroll does not, etc… i resent that we are penalized for working hard. This bunk about transfers is ridiculous, at least for us in tennis…. Every one of our top six in the girls program waa a lifer st Collegiate.

if a school cheats….punish them suspend them… but don’t attack their success if done fairly.

That is an interesting perspective. I think this is driven, like most things athletic, by football and boys basketball. Bishop Miege won the state 4A championship game in boys basketball by 50+ points, they have a roster full of D-1 players, many from out of state. You see the same thing with St. James Academy. They have more D-1 players in any given year than the other 4A schools have had in history and it isn’t because they work harder. The Wichita Catholic schools are a little different than many of the other private schools in Kansas, because they give free tuition to families that tithe, so while they have had success it’s nothing like some of the other private school powerhouses.

With public school transfers, they are supposed to sit out 180 days (and I think that is increasing soon). But the rampant recruiting by private schools, specially in the KC area, is a problem. I think there is also the issue of private schools being able to hand pick their students. Private schools aren’t taking the kids in poverty, kids with disabilities, etc(unless they are dam good athletes). In a typical public school, you have a fraction of the students participating in athletics, where that number is much larger in private schools and this creates uneven playing field, maybe more so even in the small schools. Go to a 2A football game and you will see rosters of 30-40 kids and then you have Pittsburg Colgan, who will have 80+ kids. One year they won Baseball, Track and Golf all in the same spring season.

I think a multiplier (1.5 student enrollment) like they use in other states would help level the playing field. And that is just for post season, those schools can continue to schedule overmatch schools throughout the regular season.
 

TruHusker

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And further, there are public schools, as I understand it, who have reached the 5 championship limit but they are not affected. It just doesn't make sense.

The big issue is the privates can recruit and often do. But not all privates are successful in all sports. Years ago we played a team in Western KS who kicked everyone's butt in FB. He retired and now they can't win squat. Privates have an advantage of generally good parents with means, kids who work hard and less drama than in publics. I have been in both.

Not to be overlooked is the success Spartan has had in tennis at Collegiate. Is that only because he is at a private school? I doubt it.
 

headcard

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And further, there are public schools, as I understand it, who have reached the 5 championship limit but they are not affected. It just doesn't make sense.

The big issue is the privates can recruit and often do. But not all privates are successful in all sports. Years ago we played a team in Western KS who kicked everyone's butt in FB. He retired and now they can't win squat. Privates have an advantage of generally good parents with means, kids who work hard and less drama than in publics. I have been in both.

Not to be overlooked is the success Spartan has had in tennis at Collegiate. Is that only because he is at a private school? I doubt it.

Sure there are great programs like those old Smith Center teams or todays Central Plains BB teams or the old Wahoo basketball teams in Nebraska. Nothing wrong with that, out working and out system if your peers. But when they playing field isn’t level, because some schools are allowed to recruit and pick and choose their students while others can’t, something has to be adjusted.

As for Colliegiate tennis what would be the impact? How many 3A schools even play tennis? Wouldn’t it simply be playing in a different classification for post season, against the teams they already play in the regular season?
 

TruHusker

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Sure there are great programs like those old Smith Center teams or todays Central Plains BB teams or the old Wahoo basketball teams in Nebraska. Nothing wrong with that, out working and out system if your peers. But when they playing field isn’t level, because some schools are allowed to recruit and pick and choose their students while others can’t, something has to be adjusted.

As for Colliegiate tennis what would be the impact? How many 3A schools even play tennis? Wouldn’t it simply be playing in a different classification for post season, against the teams they already play in the regular season?
If you read the comments, he said he didn't have a problem moving his squad up to 4A. But the problem isn't just tennis, all teams, under this proposal move up, even the ones who can't win in 3A would be forced to move up.

Tell me how much recruiting actually goes on or is it more urban legend and the "I heard" stuff?
 

headcard

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If you read the comments, he said he didn't have a problem moving his squad up to 4A. But the problem isn't just tennis, all teams, under this proposal move up, even the ones who can't win in 3A would be forced to move up.

Tell me how much recruiting actually goes on or is it more urban legend and the "I heard" stuff?

Urban legend? Are you kidding? Look at the examples I gave above of schools like Bishop Miege, they have kids from all over the country, competing against rural 4A teams. You have small private schools in large cities picking the best athletes from the city and winning titles against podunk farm schools, who can barely field teams. The private schools absolutely do decide who they accept, and I don't see why it would be an issue at all to move them up a class. You see this in many states, like Missouri, and you even see separate private school divisions in places like Illinois.
 

Big bo fan

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If you read the comments, he said he didn't have a problem moving his squad up to 4A. But the problem isn't just tennis, all teams, under this proposal move up, even the ones who can't win in 3A would be forced to move up.

Tell me how much recruiting actually goes on or is it more urban legend and the "I heard" stuff?
I tend to agree on moving everything up, like he said his Tennis would be fine, but the GBB would not be.Maybe they can figure it out. The part on “recruiting “, if you don’t think that goes on you are out of touch with reality, and even though the publics have option enrollment in some cases, it still comes down to the privates can still pick and choose who comes in and the publics cannot.
 
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TruHusker

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I tend to agree on moving everything up, like he said his Tennis would be fine, but the GBB would not be.Maybe they can figure it out. The part on “recruiting “, if you don’t think that goes on you are out of touch with reality, and even though the publics have option enrollment in some cases, it still comes down to the privates can still pick and choose who comes in and the publics cannot.
So, exactly what is recruiting? With states that have school choice, what is different about that? A kid can go anywhere he or she wants IF the school, private or public will take them. Privates don't take everyone just as an FYI, I ran one and turned kids and families down for various reasons. It happens.

Getting back to the recruiting comment, what is recruiting? Is it a coach combing the junior highs and camps and going out and offering those kids scholarships that the school is on the hook for? Or is to build a very good team, solid coaches where kids want to come and play for a proven winner every year? Is that recruiting? Then it happens in bigger cities with public schools as well.

If they want to move his tennis team up, he is fine with that. What do you do about schools that have a really good group of kids come through and you win a VB, BB, and track championship with these kids and throw in a couple state scholarships bowls, in 5 years. Whereas a public can do that and nothing happens. How is that fair to those kids?
 

Big bo fan

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So, exactly what is recruiting? With states that have school choice, what is different about that? A kid can go anywhere he or she wants IF the school, private or public will take them. Privates don't take everyone just as an FYI, I ran one and turned kids and families down for various reasons. It happens.

Getting back to the recruiting comment, what is recruiting? Is it a coach combing the junior highs and camps and going out and offering those kids scholarships that the school is on the hook for? Or is to build a very good team, solid coaches where kids want to come and play for a proven winner every year? Is that recruiting? Then it happens in bigger cities with public schools as well.

If they want to move his tennis team up, he is fine with that. What do you do about schools that have a really good group of kids come through and you win a VB, BB, and track championship with these kids and throw in a couple state scholarships bowls, in 5 years. Whereas a public can do that and nothing happens. How is that fair to those kids?
I get what you are saying, it basically comes to this if a public school with option enrollment wants to take 10 kids for next year , they can’t pick and choose those 10 kids out of30 that put in the paper work ,they have to take the first ten. The Privates want to take 10 for next year they can pick and choose out of any number to get Ten ,hence the “recruiting “ comment. That’s why in some states they have a 1.5 enrollment number for privates.
 

TruHusker

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I get what you are saying, it basically comes to this if a public school with option enrollment wants to take 10 kids for next year , they can’t pick and choose those 10 kids out of30 that put in the paper work ,they have to take the first ten. The Privates want to take 10 for next year they can pick and choose out of any number to get Ten ,hence the “recruiting “ comment. That’s why in some states they have a 1.5 enrollment number for privates.
I live in a city of about 50k, 2 5A Hugh schools, one private and several smaller surrounding us. One is a nice 3A/2A that is not a town, just a school out in the middle of nowhere. They haven't had enough kids in their own area so they have accepted out of district kids "on an individual basis." It is a good school and lots of families try to get their kids into the district for various reasons, one being sports. I had parents enroll their kids in the private I was running to save a spot and then try to get accepted as an out of district at the public. If they had multiple kids, their chances if getting them all accepted was low at that time. You might get the 8th grader accepted and the 5th but not thr 2nd. I know they still accept many out of district kids and they have been loaded in sports the past few years. Is there a correlation? I do know a parent who got his kid out there and then he got in some trouble so they sent him back to his home district. You don't think there is some selection criteria going on?
 

Big bo fan

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I live in a city of about 50k, 2 5A Hugh schools, one private and several smaller surrounding us. One is a nice 3A/2A that is not a town, just a school out in the middle of nowhere. They haven't had enough kids in their own area so they have accepted out of district kids "on an individual basis." It is a good school and lots of families try to get their kids into the district for various reasons, one being sports. I had parents enroll their kids in the private I was running to save a spot and then try to get accepted as an out of district at the public. If they had multiple kids, their chances if getting them all accepted was low at that time. You might get the 8th grader accepted and the 5th but not thr 2nd. I know they still accept many out of district kids and they have been loaded in sports the past few years. Is there a correlation? I do know a parent who got his kid out there and then he got in some trouble so they sent him back to his home district. You don't think there is some selection criteria going on?
In some public I am sure you are correct, not all most follow the guidelines, but the point is in private it’s all pick and choose.
 

headcard

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I live in a city of about 50k, 2 5A Hugh schools, one private and several smaller surrounding us. One is a nice 3A/2A that is not a town, just a school out in the middle of nowhere. They haven't had enough kids in their own area so they have accepted out of district kids "on an individual basis." It is a good school and lots of families try to get their kids into the district for various reasons, one being sports. I had parents enroll their kids in the private I was running to save a spot and then try to get accepted as an out of district at the public. If they had multiple kids, their chances if getting them all accepted was low at that time. You might get the 8th grader accepted and the 5th but not thr 2nd. I know they still accept many out of district kids and they have been loaded in sports the past few years. Is there a correlation? I do know a parent who got his kid out there and then he got in some trouble so they sent him back to his home district. You don't think there is some selection criteria going on?

The example you give, shows the massive advantage privates have. The public school you mention must take all the kids in their district, but can pick and choose on out of district students. You think this small fraction of students gives them a big advantage and is why they have been loaded in sports. Private school do this with 100% of their kids. Private schools can pick and choose who they take, public schools must take the kids that live in their school district. This alone gives private schools a huge advantage in athletics, I’m not sure how this is even debatable. And pretending like private schools aren’t recruiting and athletes from other places are coincidentally showing up, being accepted, and having tuition waived?

There is a reason some sort of multiplier for private schools exist all over the country and why it is being considered in Kansas. It’s common sense.
 
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tpmcg

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trying to solve problems with a chainsaw, where only a scalpel is needed.

and I must be slow on the uptake, headcard are you in wichita?
 

headcard

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trying to solve problems with a chainsaw, where only a scalpel is needed.

and I must be slow on the uptake, headcard are you in wichita?

No, I’m in the KC area. This is a debate as old as time, but the situation is a little different here, where their are some private schools, essentially operating like national programs and competing against rural schools every week that are completely outmatched. The 54 point win in last years 4A state basketball championship being a pretty good example.
 
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SuperBigFan

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1. NCAA scho
The example you give, shows the massive advantage privates have. The public school you mention must take all the kids in their district, but can pick and choose on out of district students. You think this small fraction of students gives them a big advantage and is why they have been loaded in sports. Private school do this with 100% of their kids. Private schools can pick and choose who they take, public schools must take the kids that live in their school district. This alone gives private schools a huge advantage in athletics, I’m not sure how this is even debatable. And pretending like private schools aren’t recruiting and athletes from other places are coincidentally showing up, being accepted, and having tuition waived?

There is a reason some sort of multiplier for private schools exist all over the country and why it is being considered in Kansas. It’s common sense.
Tuition waived, rarely if ever. (Trust me, I know, wink)
 
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TruHusker

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Please, show me a private school that gives sports scholarships and picks and chooses who they accept based on sports. In that case, the coaches have to have a hand in student acceptance to get the players they want. Dream on. Privates charge a bundle, 10k is probably average so the parents have to have the cash. It's called a choice.

You missed the point on my local example. They can accept anyone they want, they get to pick and choose like the Privates. You take a small school and a few can make a big difference.

So tell me what happens when a nice little 1A 8 man team has a good run in boys and girls and is forced to move up to 11 man.
 

SuperBigFan

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Please, show me a private school that gives sports scholarships and picks and chooses who they accept based on sports. In that case, the coaches have to have a hand in student acceptance to get the players they want. Dream on. Privates charge a bundle, 10k is probably average so the parents have to have the cash. It's called a choice.

You missed the point on my local example. They can accept anyone they want, they get to pick and choose like the Privates. You take a small school and a few can make a big difference.

So tell me what happens when a nice little 1A 8 man team has a good run in boys and girls and is forced to move up to 11 man.
I teach and coach at a private school. You are 100% accurate.

I have no say in who "gets in", if anything I have to work harder to get a kid to come to my school to play because of the cost.

We do have some full rides but those are grade based and we give out like 5-6 a year.

What we do and can do is hold kids accountable and their parents tend to be very invested.

Also, if your grades suck, we help you but if you don't get them up, you are gone. And if you are a jackass, we will help you, but if you don't start to act right, you are gone.

We don't get to pick who we want, like I said, we have to sell ourselves to the parent(s) and the student.
 
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Big bo fan

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Please, show me a private school that gives sports scholarships and picks and chooses who they accept based on sports. In that case, the coaches have to have a hand in student acceptance to get the players they want. Dream on. Privates charge a bundle, 10k is probably average so the parents have to have the cash. It's called a choice.

You missed the point on my local example. They can accept anyone they want, they get to pick and choose like the Privates. You take a small school and a few can make a big difference.

So tell me what happens when a nice little 1A 8 man team has a good run in boys and girls and is forced to move up to 11 man.
You are taking this way to personal, I live in Nebraska and I had a friend that had 2 kids go to a private school both stud athletes, they didn’t pay a dime , so it may not happen in your school, but it happens.
 
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headcard

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Please, show me a private school that gives sports scholarships and picks and chooses who they accept based on sports. In that case, the coaches have to have a hand in student acceptance to get the players they want. Dream on. Privates charge a bundle, 10k is probably average so the parents have to have the cash. It's called a choice.

You missed the point on my local example. They can accept anyone they want, they get to pick and choose like the Privates. You take a small school and a few can make a big difference.

So tell me what happens when a nice little 1A 8 man team has a good run in boys and girls and is forced to move up to 11 man.

I doubt that happens. This applies to private schools, who aren’t nice little 1A 8 man schools. But your example is off. The public school in your example has to take everyone in district, privates pick who they want. If you think a few kids can make a difference, what about a school who is picking and choosing every single kid. There is a reason private schools are winning over 40% of the state titles despite having less than 8% of students.

And yes, they absolutely waive tuition for athletes. You really think the athletes coming from KCK and Raytown to St. James and Miege are dishing out any money?

Honestly I think the whole state championships thing is silly and they should just multiply all of the private schools enrollments (1.5 is used is other states), half the states have a multiplier for a reason.
 
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spartanhusker

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Well hello, friends! I leave to go golf and this whole dialogue breaks out!😂
Let me only dpeak for me and my situation.
I have been at Collegiate for 45 years… this is my 46th coming up… maybe my last… who knows? I love this school… my three kids have gone here, i have 5 grandkids here, this has been my home. I can’t imagine a better school. Our teachers and administration works nonstop hard to produce a great product, in tge classroom, on the stage, in our music, in our athletics, all areas. We do not cheat. We LOSE great kids because of tuition, grades, etc. in my 46 years I have never asked a child or family to come play for us. What i DO is work. I work the halls at our school, all levels, to get kids to try tennis. I pour myself into our program, our kids, etc. i go to clinics, i talk to coaches, i breathe it. Our administration is fantastic to me… like they are to our 1-19 girls basketball team…. To our choir… to our actors. All of it.

we are a private school. We rely on kids choosing us. And i have no foubt kids have chosen us because they like the idea of playing for a tennis program that wants excellence. Like kids who somehow end ip in Derby to play football there… or Heights to play basketball there. More power to them if they were not enticed or promised.

i kind of get the publics mindset, EXCEPT look at this particular case… it really is about Bishop Miege and probably our tennis titles. Nobody minds the privates when they stink. I’m willing to move MY program up… i dont see the point in penalizing the kids at our school eho pley other sports, for our titles.

somrone mentioned WAAY back 3A being smsll… in tennis it’s 321A and it’s 40 schools, many rich in tradition.

Thanks! Have a great night!
 

SuperBigFan

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Some of you are living in the clouds.

I literally teach/coach at a private school. The idea that tuition is waived is not true.

Could you imagine the school waiving 50ishK because some 8th grader is sort of good at basketball??

It is not how it works.

Years ago, I taught and coached at Boys Town, and guess what, we were also accused of "recruiting"

If you got a full "ride" to a private HS, it was for the grades and test scores you had in 7th and 8th grade.
 
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spartanhusker

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Well hello, friends! I leave to go golf and this whole dialogue breaks out!😂
Let me only dpeak for me and my situation.
I have been at Collegiate for 45 years… this is my 46th coming up… maybe my last… who knows? I love this school… my three kids have gone here, i have 5 grandkids here, this has been my home. I can’t imagine a better school. Our teachers and administration works nonstop hard to produce a great product, in tge classroom, on the stage, in our music, in our athletics, all areas. We do not cheat. We LOSE great kids because of tuition, grades, etc. in my 46 years I have never asked a child or family to come play for us. What i DO is work. I work the halls at our school, all levels, to get kids to try tennis. I pour myself into our program, our kids, etc. i go to clinics, i talk to coaches, i breathe it. Our administration is fantastic to me… like they are to our 1-19 girls basketball team…. To our choir… to our actors. All of it.

we are a private school. We rely on kids choosing us. And i have no foubt kids have chosen us because they like the idea of playing for a tennis program that wants excellence. Like kids who somehow end ip in Derby to play football there… or Heights to play basketball there. More power to them if they were not enticed or promised.

i kind of get the publics mindset, EXCEPT look at this particular case… it really is about Bishop Miege and probably our tennis titles. Nobody minds the privates when they stink. I’m willing to move MY program up… i dont see the point in penalizing the kids at our school eho pley other sports, for our titles.

somrone mentioned WAAY back 3A being smsll… in tennis it’s 321A and it’s 40 schools, many rich in tradition.

Thanks! Have a great night!
Btw…. Sorry for the horrible spelling!
 

headcard

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Some of you are living in the clouds.

I literally teach/coach at a private school. The idea that tuition is waived is not true.

Could you imagine the school waiving 50ishK because some 8th grader is sort of good at basketball??

It is not how it works.

Years ago, I taught and coached at Boys Town, and guess what, we were also accused of "recruiting"

If you got a full "ride" to a private HS, it was for the grades and test scores you had in 7th and 8th grade.

Gove me a break. Even if your particular private school is not waiving tuition for recruited athletes, you are kidding yourself if you think it just isn’t happening at many and these private school powerhouses are doing it by caring more and just coaching better. I know parents who’s children have attended private schools tuition free for athletics. Do you really think 4 and 5 star athletes are coming to St. James and Miege from the inner city and even from other states and are paying tuition? Really?
 

spartanhusker

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Gove me a break. Even if your particular private school is not waiving tuition for recruited athletes, you are kidding yourself if you think it just isn’t happening at many and these private school powerhouses are doing it by caring more and just coaching better. I know parents who’s children have attended private schools tuition free for athletics. Do you really think 4 and 5 star athletes are coming to St. James and Miege from the inner city and even from other states and are paying tuition? Really?
If they are, then KSHSAA is doing a poor job of monitoring…
HOWEVER… we once lost a student to a public football power IN MIDSEASON… his dad magically got a job at the school,,, played in the Big 12… just sayin’
 

headcard

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If they are, then KSHSAA is doing a poor job of monitoring…
HOWEVER… we once lost a student to a public football power IN MIDSEASON… his dad magically got a job at the school,,, played in the Big 12… just sayin’

Yes, KSHSAA has done a poor job monitoring and that is how we got here. For a long time they wanted nothing to do with the situation. I do not think Collegiate falls in the category of private schools recruiting athletes. I’ve seen them play FB and BB over the years and they aren’t loaded with superior D1 athletes. I also don’t think this has anything to do with tennis, it seems to be about the team sports and the advantages private schools have. Even if you aren’t recruiting and waiving tuition, like many, you have many advantages by picking and choosing students, not having to take all.

But the biggest issue are the schools blatantly recruiting and the unequal playing field. For example I heard yesterday that Paola has the 6th most wins in KS football history and has had less D1 players in their history than Miege averages in a single year and they are in the same classification. You may think it is terrible that a private school team that isn’t any good may have to play one postseason game up a classification, but all these programs that know they can and will never get past these powerhouse programs playing by their own rules is far worse IMO.
 

spartanhusker

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Yes, KSHSAA has done a poor job monitoring and that is how we got here. For a long time they wanted nothing to do with the situation. I do not think Collegiate falls in the category of private schools recruiting athletes. I’ve seen them play FB and BB over the years and they aren’t loaded with superior D1 athletes. I also don’t think this has anything to do with tennis, it seems to be about the team sports and the advantages private schools have. Even if you aren’t recruiting and waiving tuition, like many, you have many advantages by picking and choosing students, not having to take all.

But the biggest issue are the schools blatantly recruiting and the unequal playing field. For example I heard yesterday that Paola has the 6th most wins in KS football history and has had less D1 players in their history than Miege averages in a single year and they are in the same classification. You may think it is terrible that a private school team that isn’t any good may have to play one postseason game up a classification, but all these programs that know they can and will never get past these powerhouse programs playing by their own rules is far worse IMO.
I guess my only 2 pointsare since we are not waiving tuition, then the price tag eliminates many kids… and my other point… where is the tennis success for Trinity, Independent these days, Hutch Trinity, Classical, etc? You would think they would get around to winning something😂
It IS interesting to me that all six of our top 6 girls last year were/ are lifers… and 4/6 boys…
But again… i don’t mind playing up
 

headcard

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I guess my only 2 pointsare since we are not waiving tuition, then the price tag eliminates many kids… and my other point… where is the tennis success for Trinity, Independent these days, Hutch Trinity, Classical, etc? You would think they would get around to winning something😂
It IS interesting to me that all six of our top 6 girls last year were/ are lifers… and 4/6 boys…
But again… i don’t mind playing up

Like I said I don’t think this is about tennis, but the team sports and the powerhouse private schools dominating them.

I guess we just won’t agree. This is an old debate. Those in favor of a multiplier believe private schools have an unfair advantage by picking and choosing their students. Gas is thrown on the fire by some of those schools also blatantly recruiting. Those against believe private schools are just like everyone else and the success of those programs is just because they are better coached and care more than everyone else.
 

SuperBigFan

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Gove me a break. Even if your particular private school is not waiving tuition for recruited athletes, you are kidding yourself if you think it just isn’t happening at many and these private school powerhouses are doing it by caring more and just coaching better. I know parents who’s children have attended private schools tuition free for athletics. Do you really think 4 and 5 star athletes are coming to St. James and Miege from the inner city and even from other states and are paying tuition? Really?
Yes, they are paying.

This weird idea that private schools just let people in for free is amazing. Tuition and donations are the lifeblood of those schools.

I know all of you "know someone" that got a free ride but that just is not the case. They are paying. Most of them are diocesan schools and well, the catholic church LOVES money.
 
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Cornicator

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Well I can't speak for most Private schools, but I know in the KC area that St James Academy, Bishop Miege, and St. Thomas Aquinas have wealthy families who help fund the tuition for athletes that wouldn't normally be able to afford the cost of attendance.

So is a dynamic and talented athlete from inner city KCMO or KCK earning a "full ride" to attend one of those schools? No.

But they aren't paying for anything either.
 
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Big bo fan

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Yes, they are paying.

This weird idea that private schools just let people in for free is amazing. Tuition and donations are the lifeblood of those schools.

I know all of you "know someone" that got a free ride but that just is not the case. They are paying. Most of them are diocesan schools and well, the catholic church LOVES money.
In my post , I said my friends kids didn’t pay a dime ,maybe the school got it covered from someone or somewhere else. I can guarantee you every athlete in the privates are not payin their own way.
 
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SuperBigFan

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Well I can't speak for most Private schools, but I know in the KC area that St James Academy, Bishop Miege, and St. Thomas Aquinas have wealthy families who help fund the tuition for athletes that wouldn't normally be able to afford the cost of attendance.

So is a dynamic and talented athlete from inner city KCMO or KCK earning a "full ride" to attend one of those schools? No.

But they aren't paying for anything either.
That does happen and honestly 99% of the time it is not a stud player but just a kid that needs help paying.

Private schools totally "recruit" they have to if they want to keep their doors open.
 

SuperBigFan

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In my post , I said my friends kids didn’t pay a dime ,maybe the school got it covered from someone or somewhere else. I can guarantee you every athlete in the privates are not payin their own way.
First off, you can't guarantee that. Which you know.



They might get a reduced rate, say from 10K a year to 6K a year, but no one is going for free and really what does it matter? What does it matter how the school runs their admissions?
 

headcard

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Yes, they are paying.

This weird idea that private schools just let people in for free is amazing. Tuition and donations are the lifeblood of those schools.

I know all of you "know someone" that got a free ride but that just is not the case. They are paying. Most of them are diocesan schools and well, the catholic church LOVES money.

Yes let’s ignore all the people that actually know of this happening because you feel like burrying your head on the sand. Inner city kids, who happen to be great athletes end up at Aquinas, St. James and Miege because their parents are all secretly wealthy. Sure.

I spoke with a guy about a month ago who lives on the Missouri side and his daughter is a stud volleyball player at St. James. I said something along the lines of that’s a really nice school and he said she doesn’t have to pay because of volleyball. But he’s probably lying.
 

spartanhusker

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Yes let’s ignore all the people that actually know of this happening because you feel like burrying your head on the sand. Inner city kids, who happen to be great athletes end up at Aquinas, St. James and Miege because their parents are all secretly wealthy. Sure.

I spoke with a guy about a month ago who lives on the Missouri side and his daughter is a stud volleyball player at St. James. I said something along the lines of that’s a really nice school and he said she doesn’t have to pay because of volleyball. But he’s probably lying.
I’m done after this… i liked your last line😂
I’m never going to say it has not happened at our school… i so hope not… but again, willing to move up a level for tennis
Good day friends!
 
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SuperBigFan

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Yes let’s ignore all the people that actually know of this happening because you feel like burrying your head on the sand. Inner city kids, who happen to be great athletes end up at Aquinas, St. James and Miege because their parents are all secretly wealthy. Sure.

I spoke with a guy about a month ago who lives on the Missouri side and his daughter is a stud volleyball player at St. James. I said something along the lines of that’s a really nice school and he said she doesn’t have to pay because of volleyball. But he’s probably lying.
Dude, you are hearing "stories" from "friends"

I literally work in field at one of "those schools" with tons of connections to all the schools in the area.

I know what does and doesn't go on.

It is not about being "secretly wealthy" it is about doing what you think is best for your kids and sacrificing.

How many of these "full rides" do you think these schools are giving out? Does every player get one? Please tell me more.

We 100% recruit...we do not give out "full rides". It makes no sense.
 
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